No unicycles allowed... the irony.

[minikumi]

Originally Posted by knoxuni

very true but they said i could come back at night

So did you??

[knoxuni]

I work nights lol.

[aracer]

Originally Posted by MuniSano

There is usually a pretty good reason to limit the traffic to "foot only".

Actually it's extremely rare that there is - usually it's plain old prejudice. Cycles generally cause no more harm in any sense than pedestrians do. Hence why I'm generally quite happy to hide behind the technicality of a unicycle not being a bike.

[MuniSano]

Originally Posted by aracer

Cycles generally cause no more harm in any sense than pedestrians do. Hence why I'm generally quite happy to hide behind the technicality of a unicycle not being a bike.

Actually thats not really true. Have you ever participated in trail maintenance? I have and I can promise you hat wheeled traffic definitely rips up muddy or wet trails much more than foot traffic. Any traffic on wet trails isn't good for trails but wheels really do a number on them.

Besides the wet or muddy trail issue there is the issue of insurance and trails being built up to a certain code to sustain wheeled traffic. Perhaps this trail wasn't designed to accommodate wheeled traffic?

Lastly there is the issue that this is a "nature trail" which sort of implies a certain level of expectation that someone hiking through there wouldn't enjoy getting buzzed by a biker who's using the trail as they're personal time trial course.

There are indeed lots of reasons to not allow wheeled traffic on certain trails that go far beyond old prejudices. I have no idea what the issue may be in your area but the reasons I listed above are the very reason given for why some my local trails are closed to wheeled traffic.

[aracer]

Originally Posted by MuniSano

Have you ever participated in trail maintenance? I have and I can promise you hat wheeled traffic definitely rips up muddy or wet trails much more than foot traffic. Any traffic on wet trails isn't good for trails but wheels really do a number on them.

Yes I have, and I've also spent a lot of time out in the wilds on both foot and wheels and seen all sorts of damage caused by all trail users - and that's not true at all. There have been proper studies done on this, and the erosion impact of a bicycle is in general less than that of somebody on foot (the surface pressure is lower for a start). There are certainly issues with the way wheels create linear ruts which can result in erosion channels, but that's a pretty rare issue. I'll bet that the trails which look like they were ripped up by wheels were damaged by pedestrian traffic first (or if you're talking about bike only trails you're not comparing like with like). I've certainly seen plenty of trails destroyed by foot traffic only.

Lastly there is the issue that this is a "nature trail" which sort of implies a certain level of expectation that someone hiking through there wouldn't enjoy getting buzzed by a biker who's using the trail as they're personal time trial course.

Which might be a problem if you were doing so - not really the way I ride on a unicycle (or I'd imagine most on here do), not given I can generally run as fast or faster than I ride even if I'm trying. On such a trail I'd slow right down on a bike as well - as indeed I do when meeting pedestrians on any trail. Buzzing peds isn't big or clever on any sort of trail - the issue isn't the trail type but the action of those using it. Do you really ever get a negative reaction from walkers when riding a uni? Pretty much everybody I've ever met when riding a uni out in the woods seems pleased to see me - I don't think the fact I've just ridden past a sign saying no bikes even seems to occur to them.

I have no idea what the issue may be in your area but the reasons I listed above are the very reason given for why some my local trails are closed to wheeled traffic.

Well we do have several very stupid historical anomalies over here, where bikes are allowed on some trails which aren't really suitable, but banned from others which are perfect. That's not to mention the way trails have been misclassified, which means a bike legal trail turns into one your'e not supposed to ride on at a parish boundary - and that in the particular area where I live very few of the trails have been classified as bike legal due to local prejudice. Oh, and my favourite is that we're allowed to race bikes on trails which we don't have normal right of way on, but not on those we do (though motor bikes are allowed to race on those).

[emile]

Originally Posted by evil-nick

I had to bring my uni on the metro for the 1st time last month. I checked the times for when I could bring a bike (I didn't feel like having the "uni is not a bike" argument) and the STM website actually mentions that it's prohibited to ride uni's in metro stations.

So which one of you modder pockers ruined it for me? Murde Mental, I'm looking at you!!! (if you're still on the forums...)

Most of the time they don't care or notice. Most people don't know either. I mean a 20" unicycle is so small it logically shouldn't treated like a bike, but it'S still on the paperwork.

Removing the saddle or putting a garbage bag (or 2) over the uni works great and it's fast.

[deadbeatpope]

Originally Posted by MuniSano

That's just a technicality. The probable intent is limit the natural trails to "foot traffic only". While a unicycle is certainly NOT a bike it still is NOT foot traffic and the same issues caused by a bike are definitely caused by a unicycle as well. So when I see signs like "foot traffic only" or "No bikes" I fully understand the intent and stay off those trails when I'm riding. There is usually a pretty good reason to limit the traffic to "foot only".

That's why I didn't argue.

[aracer]

Originally Posted by aracer

There have been proper studies done on this, and the erosion impact of a bicycle is in general less than that of somebody on foot

...and finally I've found the link http://www.imba.com/resources/resear...ountain-biking

[Hugo_Duguay]

Originally Posted by evil-nick

So which one of you modder pockers ruined it for me? Murde Mental, I'm looking at you!!! (if you're still on the forums...)

It is his fault indeed ! Back in 2004-2005 when "monocycle" was not even mentioned in the STM rules, he used to ride trials in the metro with Julien Renaud. Then he got kicked out, argued that it was written no where that he couldn't ride AND next thing we know, (the year after, or I don't know when...) "monocycle" is added to the rules.

Originally Posted by emile

Most of the time they don't care or notice. Most people don't know either. I mean a 20" unicycle is so small it logically shouldn't treated like a bike, but it'S still on the paperwork.

Removing the saddle or putting a garbage bag (or 2) over the uni works great and it's fast.

Yes, but lately there has been more security in the metro, possibly because of the strike, and I have been asked a couple of times now to wait for the end of the rush hours. If I don't have garbage bags on me (which, surprisingly, happens quite often) I just ride to the next station.

We have been kicked out of almost every skyscrapers' entrance in Montreal, private squares, parks, indoor parking lots, schools, and once a skatepark, for the same reasons as tmoyer. Usually, we try to be very respectful, in case we plan to go back there, but mostly because we don't want security guards to think we have the same mentality as skateboarders/skaters/BMX'ers.

[MuniSano]

Originally Posted by aracer

...and finally I've found the link http://www.imba.com/resources/resear...ountain-biking

The one thing none of these studies have covered and which I've observed in my own trail system is the relative behavior of cyclists versus foot traffic when it comes to obstacles in the trail. Now I've run in this trail system both before and since bicycles were allowed and I've come to notice something quite interesting. In the park there are several remote sections of trail that don't see trail maintenance all too often, if ever. In places in these sections there are blow downs or fallen tree across the trail. In the past, before wheeled traffic was allowed I'd never observe any appreciable trail widening around these obstacles. Hikers and runners alike would just step over the fallen tree and continue on the trail. However, in more recent years I've noticed a shift in the behavior; now there are many "work around" paths cut around the blow downs and most of the time they've been created by cyclists as evidenced by the abundant wheel tracks. Is this good? Is this bad? That's debatable. Really if more trail maintenance were performed including removing the blow down then the cyclists wouldn't be compelled to cut a work around trail. So other than that I really haven't noticed any appreciable difference on trail erosion with respect to either user group; the biggest enemy is that our trails haven't been built in a sustainable manner as they pre-date all those best practices by IMBA. So natural erosion due to rain/flooding are the biggest culprits. Water sure can erode a trail in no time! The biggest issue I have with wet trail use is the fact that people feel compelled to avoid the center line puddles and go wide around them. This leads to damage on either side of the trail and eventually the trail is effectively widened. This is very bad and ugly. Now again, the puddles wouldn't persist with proper trail maintenance but the fact remains that people need to be educated to avoid trail widening. If there is a puddle, just go straight through; that's what I try to teach my friends and anybody else I'm running with on the trails. I say, hey, we're on the trails we're supposed to get wet and muddy so why avoid it?

[deadbeatpope]

I would simply respect the wishes of someone maintaining a parcel of land. It is really simple.

[tholub]

Originally Posted by MuniSano

The one thing none of these studies have covered and which I've observed in my own trail system is the relative behavior of cyclists versus foot traffic when it comes to obstacles in the trail. Now I've run in this trail system both before and since bicycles were allowed and I've come to notice something quite interesting. In the park there are several remote sections of trail that don't see trail maintenance all too often, if ever. In places in these sections there are blow downs or fallen tree across the trail. In the past, before wheeled traffic was allowed I'd never observe any appreciable trail widening around these obstacles. Hikers and runners alike would just step over the fallen tree and continue on the trail. However, in more recent years I've noticed a shift in the behavior; now there are many "work around" paths cut around the blow downs and most of the time they've been created by cyclists as evidenced by the abundant wheel tracks. Is this good? Is this bad? That's debatable.

Impacts of hiking and biking on trails are different. Hikers, for example, are a lot more likely to take short-cuts through switchbacks. But the overall impact is similar in scope. That's in contrast to equestrian use, which is very clearly worse than either hiking or biking.

[JimmyTheChimp]

Originally Posted by tholub

That's in contrast to equestrian use, which is very clearly worse than either hiking or biking.

Yeah, I mean, how darn hard is it to rig up something to catch the horse poop while your on a public trail? You're expected to clean up after your dog when they take a dump, so why should it be okay to leave a heaping pile of horse crap right in the path where people are trying to unicycle!

Also their hoof-prints have caused me to UPD in the past, although that's probably more of an issue with my riding abilities

[colinoldncranky]

I ride daily - commuting and recreation. As the years have gone by I have gained an amount of notoriety d familiarity on the streets which reduces toa minimum the number of authorities caught by surprise. I have also read up on rules and regulations and also had a couple of policies modified for unicyclists. I ride right to the sliding door at work every morning and say gidday to Mick on security desk. I often ride right to the escalator in the train station. I wave to the cycle cops in the busy pedestrian mall more days than not. I ride amongst pedestrians and shoppers without ever impinging on them and never any contact and never get anything except quizzical looks or a friendly acknowledgement. I almost never have any issue with anyone at all.

If I pass a skate park and the kids notice me they laugh and wave and say things like "Cool" and "awesome" and "What the..." and invite me over.

On rare occasions I have had cops address my lack of helmet and new transport security officer challenge me on peak hour trains or on buses and they invariably accept what I say about rules and policies. Remarkably I am yet to have a cop challenge me riding on the road (also legal).

I am sixty and I am gently persuasive and not easily upset. That probably helps a lot.

You guys should all move over and join me in Perth in Western Australia.

[deadbeatpope]

Originally Posted by colinoldncranky

I am gently persuasive and not easily upset.

I read that you were old and cranky.