Tubeless 36er

[aracer]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

I don't know that you'll get a good seal around the rubber tube "remainder" as the edges need to be covered with tape or it'll leak. A ghetto set up uses an old tube that is splayed open and then trimmed once the tire is seated;

I used a valve cut out of an old tube for my original tubeless setups along with tape and it worked just fine - was what was recommended by Stan in his original "ghetto" tubeless system before he sold kits (the method using an old tube is far more recent). The latex seals any gaps you might have. I cut the rubber around my valve a lot smaller though, and definitely no need for the second layer of tape covering the bit of rubber around the valve.

I'd suggest using a normal washer rather than a split one though.

[LoneReaction]

I'll replace that washer if I happen to find one with a suitable size. I was sloppy with the 2nd layer of tape because I read some comments (about mountain bike tires) that it wasn't needed. Really hope it works out!!

[LoneReaction]

Went to the gas station to use the air compressor, but it wasn't giving a constant strong stream of air.. so it didn't work.

A while ago, I spent another hour trying to air it up at home. Almost passed out trying to pump it. My arms are extremely sore now..

Used zip ties to prevent the wire from slipping off the tire.


The air leaked from all over even when the tire was compressed.
Another failure.. I'm wonder if the local bike shops are willing to accept this job??

[aracer]

The problem you have is with getting the beads seated. Once you have those in place it will still leak (until you get it all sealed with latex), but slowly enough that you can inflate with the track pump.

One thing to try is to inflate with a tube in place first. Then only pop the bead on one side to remove the tube. This means at least one bead is in place when you come to inflate, halving the problem. Of course before you put a tube in you'll need to remove the latex you already have in - it's recommended to only put latex in once you have the beads seated, but a bit late now (though don't put it in again after taking the tube out until you do) - as mentioned above, it will still leak, but slowly enough for you to inflate.

The other thing to do is make up a mix of soapy water (I usually add a bit of washing up liquid - any sort of soap will do) and smear this along the sidewall of the tyre down to the bead. This helps with lubricating the bead to allow it to snap into place.

Though even with those tricks, as I mentioned above I'd be surprised if you can get it to inflate with a track pump - I've never succeeded with a tape job like you're doing. Either find a garage air line which provides a better stream of air (you need something more old-fashioned - sounds like the one you found is a modern clever one), make a DIY compressor like mine or use a CO2 cartridge.

[LoneReaction]

I am going to borrow an aircompressor, but am not sure when I can get it. Will post updates when I get to try again. If it doesn't work well enough, I will try adding in a tube for a day, plus the soapy water trick. (Thanks!)

[Nurse Ben]

Just buy a Foss tube and move on.

Tubeless is a pain, there are lot of cons, few pros, it sound better than it is.

Bottom line, tubes are easy and painless, esp with the advent of the Foss tube.

I'd hazard a guess that the Foss 36er tube is lighter than a tubless 36er set up...~300gms for the Foss tube, so pretty durn light.

[rob.northcott]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

Tubeless is a pain, there are lot of cons, few pros, it sound better than it is.

I'd agree with most of that. I ran my light xc 29er tubeless for a couple of years using the split tube method (with a Racing Ralph). I was skeptical when I did it but wanted to put some sealant in for puncture protection (the RR is pretty puny!) and thought I may as well go the whole hog and try tubeless. I was actually pretty impressed - it does give a much nicer ride at higher pressures, so less rolling resistance. But it's such a lot of faff setting up and pretty much means you can't change tyres (not practically anyway - very messy) that I recently gave up and now just run a tube with some Stan's sealant inside. But I wouldn't be quite so negative as Ben - I'd say give it a try and see what you think. Changing tyres isn't really an issue on a 36er, and you will actually save weight over a normal 36" tube (I don't reckon I did on the 29er because the sealant probably weighs as much as the half tube you save). But you could just run a 29er tube in the 36 (or a Foss one like Ben says, but I've heard more bad than good about those) and save just as much weight.

[aracer]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

Tubeless is a pain, there are lot of cons, few pros, it sound better than it is.

I disagree with most of that! But it does of course depend what you're doing it on, and why you're doing it. I've been using tubeless on my mountain bike for almost 10 years now (from before anybody made kits, when the only way to do it with normal wheels and tyres was using the instructions from Stan I mention above). In that time I've had less than half the number of punctures (as in needing to stop and fix something by putting a new tube in) than I had in the single year before I switched. In my last year of tubes on my mountain bike I missed out on at least one win due to punctures. Since running tubeless I've won at least one event where I'm aware of something puncturing the tyre and then sealing which I would have lost had I had to stop and replace a tube. I'd suggest that most definitely makes it worth it for me on a mountain bike - though of course it does depend on how many punctures you get.

Other than preventing punctures, you do get less rolling resistance, and depending on the method used less weight - using tape you should save significant weight over a heavy 36er tube. Though I'm not totally convinced those reasons are worth it if you aren't also worried about punctures. I keep thinking about going tubeless with my muni, but not bothering for now given that I've yet to have a puncture on that (now I've cursed myself ). Changing tyres is definitely a bit more hassle with tubeless - which is one reason for not going tubeless on the muni when I'm still experimenting with different tyres - though once you get used to it, it's not the complete nightmare others are suggesting.

Oh, and regarding compressors, here's a link to how to make a DIY one.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/to...-total-cost-9p

[knoxuni]

i like the DIY compressor its sweet! how is it holding up?

[Nurse Ben]

I'm not negative about tubeless, I just don't see the need. The very funny/sad part is how much effort the OP has already put into this set up and it's still not back on the road. If he'd only gotten a Foss tube...

I ride a lot, three times a week on average for the past four years, so 450 riding days all off road, and I have had four flats, one snake bite (Racing Ralph and a bridge), one lever pinch when changing a tire, one slow pinhole leak, and one bad valve on a DH tubes (it just wore out).

My heaviest tube is the Foss at ~300gms, it has yet to cause me any problems and it is reportendly quite durable and flat resistant. My other tubes are all Maxxis 26" Freerides that weigh 275gms.

Now you can say what you want about tubes, but they work, they're cheap, and they're easy. Tubeless is messy, both going in and coming out. I have never found the joy that is tubeless, in fact I found a whole lot of pain when I tried to go un-tubeless and had to clean all that crap outta my tires!!

But sure, why not try, if you have the time and energy, but just so you know, if you get a flat you'll just end up putting in a tube, so...let us know how it goes; the Foss tube is pretty nice.

If you really want this thing to work, I'd suggest a stretched 29er shraeder tube ghetto style, make sure your tire is nice and warm, pull the valve stem, use a good compressor like what is used for carpentry (framing, roofing), soap it up well, and use thick cord/thin rope with a trucker's hitch to compress the tire; zip ties may be fighting you since they put unequal pressure on the bead.

On of the things to consider is whether the tire will seat well for tubeles use, so with the ghetto set up you are going rubber to rubber, whereas with your current set up you are going rubber to tape. The Nimbus tire is not exactly designed for tubeless so it may be less than ideal when it comes to making the bead air tight.

Have fun, let us know how it goes

[LoneReaction]

I had my MTB converted to tubeless, and it was awesome. I can run 10psi front and 15psi rear and never get pinch flats. I just love trying this kind of DIY stuff XD. If it doesn't work out I'll definitely go back to tubes. The date when this thread was started is misleading, I stopped all cycling for 6 months to recover from a sprained ankle.. my ankle now clicks when walking, but so far no problem cycling. Started riding the 36er again in June this year.

Thankfully I have a few other hobbies.. been neglecting my MTB for quite some time too. I ride one wheel when I'm alone, but two when with friends.

[2pie3]

can anyone explain what the difference (when it comes to riding) between tubeless and normal uni's? and how is this done?

[LoneReaction]

Update, I got hold of a compressor, it was seriously powerful. However, I still am unable to get the tire to hold air. I noticed some things that I couldn't while relying on a floor pump.. Air was leaking out of everywhere. Even after using a cloth rope thingy (instead of the electric cable) to put pressure around the tire, I was unsuccessful. The large size of the tire (36") results in lots and lots of air openings.

Today I put the tube back in. Maybe in the future I'll get a bike shop turn it tubeless.. At least if it burps or unseals I can go back to the shop. Maybe I'll get the foss tube like nurse ben says. But for now I'll just be happy riding

I'll definitely post back here again if a shop is able to do it.

Originally Posted by 2pie3

can anyone explain what the difference (when it comes to riding) between tubeless and normal uni's? and how is this done?

Here is a video demonstrating how it is done. The lack of a tube helps reduce pinch flats, and lets the tire better conform to the ground. You can read a lot of the pros and cons about tubeless (though mostly related to mountain bikes) on the internet.

Easier and cleaner version of the ghetto tubeless...

[Nurse Ben]

So, I had a bad start to my morning...the valve on my FOSS 36er tube broke off, leaving me flat at the trailhead.

Since this was my one and only 36" tube, I had a few choices:

1) Order a 36er tube from UDC, downtime of three to four days.
2) Stretch a 29" tube and hope for the best...
3) Try tubeless...

So I chose tubeless, not because I think it's better, but because I owed it to the guys who got me this wonderful tire for testing

First things first, I had to choose between using a tubeless rim strip, a ghetto tubeless, or an automotive valve and rim tape.

I'm partial to the screw automotive valves as they are bomber and they seal well with tape. I looked at a couple different versions, I ended up using the 1.25" Victor Tubeless Tire Valves from Advance Auto: http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/1/1...5-04100-8.html

The rim tape was a bit of a conundrum because the Stealth 2 Rim is much wider than the widest tubeless rim tape; though I could have used another kind of tape like Gorilla tape. After looking at the rim I found that it has a very high shoulder and a deep bead, so all I needed to do was tape the base of the rim to cover the spokes. I used Stans 25mm No Tubes Tape which fit perfectly!

I decided that Stans Latex based sealant would be the best choce, mostly because it's the most durable and it is widely available; though I think that any name brand sealant would have worked fine. I don't like Stans in general because it is a PITA to clean up once it dries on a tire, but I guess that's also what makes it durable. Don't use automotive sealant, it can cause problems, so just don't.

The stock Shraeder valve hole was too small for the base of the valve, so I drilled it out. This is not a "beginner" skill as you can really mess up your rim. If you decide to do this on your own, use a fine steel bit and run it backwards. Finish the holes with a round file and remove the burrs with a flat/semi flat file. This would be more easilly done before the wheel is built...if you plan ahead



Cleaning the rim and tire bead are very important, even if they are new, so I soaked a clean cloth with rubbing alcohol (Isopropyl), then wiped everything down, letting it dry well before adding the tape. The rim tape is the easiest part, using some tension while wrapping and pressing it down as you go, overlap six inches, then go back and smooth it with your fingers. To cut out the valve hole, use a razor knife, make an "X", then use a small round file to cut back the tape. You can use a razor to cut back the tape, but it's cleaner to have the tape be "cut" by the file pressing it against the edge of the valve hole.



Installing the valve took some elbow grease and a clamp to compress the valve enough to get the nut on the spoke side. I was not able to use a rubber washer due to the threads being rather short, so I bent the metal washer concave to match the curve of the rim, adding a little red loctite to keep things secure, then tightened her down. Do not overtighten the nut or it could collapse the rim, that would be bad




I installed the tire and then compressed the bead/tire using a cam buckle webbing strap. I gave home inflation a quick try, soaped it up, pulled the valve, then pumped away. Not a chance! So I took it down to the tire shop to use their high pressure tire inflator. It was still a PITA, taking one person to pressurize the tire and another to pop the strap and install a valve, but we got the tire seated and aired up. I think the wide 36er rims make the initial bead seating harder than a typical MTB set up.

Back home I deflated the tire and removed the valve, the tire was holding air very well; the sign of a good tubeless ready tire and rim. I prepared two 2oz bottles of Stans No Tubes, being sure to shake them well and continuing to shake them as I squirted them into the valve. After squirting all the Stans fluid into the tire, I reinstalled the valve, then proceeded to move the tire around, side to side, spinning it slowly, so that the entire tire and rim would be well coated, then I pumped the tire up to 40psi, checked the bead line and spun the tire to check for "true".

After finding the tire well seated and true, I got out the sponge and started checking the bead for leaks. It was a very good seal because I didn't have a single leak

This is a happy unicycle


After a while I'll go back and spin the tire again, the doing this every so often to make sure the tire stays well coated. The tire will soak up the Stans over time, after a week it will be mostly done soaking up the fluid, at which point I'll check to see if I need to add some fluid or if a sufficient amount remains.

Tomorrow we ride!

Weights for the weight weenies:

FOSS 36" Tube : 230gm
29" Rubber Tube : 150 to 300gm

Tubeless Set Up Complete: ~185gm
Valve Assembly - 22gm
Stans No Tubes 25mm Rim Tape - 8gm
4oz Stans No Tubes Latex Sealant - 125gm
I may end up adding another oz, so an additional 30gms.

[LoneReaction]

I am speechless, you have got some great skills! Drilling the rim would definitely be off-limits to me.. If only you were my neighbor, I could ask for some help