Religion and homosexuality.

[pedrotejada]

I got a school letter for my parents on the 4th grade cause according to my teacher I was "unable to search quotes in the bible", I presented a certain "indifference while talking about the bible" and apparently I wasn't initiated in the christianity

No I'm not christian, and yes this text made my day...

I TOTALLY agree with most of the LESSONS that the bible passes, but I just get really pissed when the church (catholic or not) starts to take things literally, so I used to question a lot my teachers and priests at school (the american school in Brasil is essentially catholic). Specially in countries like I live (ascending "third world" countries), the church is REALLY corrupt: Pedophile scandals (even if that happens all around the world), stealing, manipulation... That happens quite often, so I decided to stay away from institutions...

Some evangelical churches stills aks 10% of people money every month... A couple that owns a big one was arrested in the USA with some millions of dollars with unknown precedence... That's just crazy... Anybody should support the institution of your believe, in the way they can! 10% of someone who wins a 250USD salary is a lot! People don't eat to support rich people who just take advantage of them!

Well, I like to take lessons from every religion, life philosophy and ideals I know... All of them have good and bad spots... You just have to take what's best form each one and the one that makes you happy.... I've been to Catholic, Evangelical, Presbyterian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hinduist temples... All of them added something to me...

When it regards homosexuality, well, I really don't care for other people options... As far they respect me I'll respect them as a human beens.

I used to hang out with my ex-gf to some gay clubs... and we had some of our best nights over there... specially concerning dancing ad having fun! I met really interesting people there (criminal lawyers, doctors, students and even ambassadors!)...

In MY opinion churches should have nothing to do with sexual choices, or anything else. If the vatican wants to make a better world for example, they shouldn't care if someone is hetero or homosexual, wears a condom or not... They should spread their world! If everybody respects everybody, what the bible - that was extremely influenced by politics and interests of the medieval society - originally claims, the world would be just great!

So, I'm basically like that: Do whatever you want, follow whatever you want! Just respect other people beliefs (what most of the churches including the catholic one doesn't), lifestyles and choices!

I've choose to be a heterosexual, lazy, womanizer, video production addicted, party addicted unicyclist... That's just me... Be whatever you want to be

[Rezinha]

Oh... People worry so much about other people's lives... I wonder why.

[unireed]

i have recently engaged myself in the Church of the Fonz. family guy allusion btw

[feel the light]

It is important to understand what religion's most important role was, before modern times. It has a different role now, in the age where a large army is less important than modern weapons during one's quests for victory.

Prohibiting knowledge of birth control and non procreational sex was the first task of any successful ancient religion. This was of paramount importance in order to maximize the size of your army. Armys pop out of pregnant married woman. The children of unmarried woman tend to starve and die before they can grow up into soldiers. So it is only moral to insist a man be assigned to each woman to help feed the children. And trained to do only baby making sex.

Let's say my tribe has a rule that we only do sex the baby making way, and we marry all the girls off young. We have a very high birth rate. Not every woman wants to birth 15 children, but most do.

Then let's say my tribe has such a huge army after a while, we can't feed all of them. A big problem ?, the downfall of my tribe ? LOL ! In your dreams !

No, just to the south there is your tribe, of hard fighting fag lovers who preach not only that gay sex is ok, but the use of sodomy as a form of birth control becomes common place. Much fewer people in each family, maybe 5 instead of 15. So I go to war against you sinning sodomites and Gomorrahites ( I'm guessing that's oral ?). We enslave you and take your land. Jews , Christians, and Muslims all powered their military might with the same way of keeping the birth rate-army size, high. Allow someone to preach birth control (same techniques as gay sex) , and your army will not have enough men for what your army needs to prevent your culture and religion from being destroyed by my high birth rate culture. We may be bigoted, murderous, thieving, lying assholes on my side. But there sure is a hell of a lot more of us, which is what determines the grace of God. After we destroy your kind of religion, my kind is left. We will then make large buildings and gather in them in crowds dressed in finery, to sing songs glorifying our piety. I hear God is particularly fond of the theory of American exceptionalism .

It was only at the age of modern weapons that teaching birth control and tolerance for gays has been seen as not a threat to the size of the army. No longer is the size of the army seen as important, so now birth control, and thus gay sex, doesn't scare the crap out of the common folk like these ideas did for most of history. Formally,to keep "the favor of God" (also known as not having your tribe wiped out ), you needed to preach to your people "only baby making sex in marriage" is ok.

The moral of the story ? If your moral dogma fails to suppress gay-type sex, your culture and religion had no morals. You would have been over run and everyone would be dead soon. Not so much because gay sex pisses off god. Teaching birth control to hetro folk must be prevented at all cost. Seen this way, stoning the gays had not just a logical consistency, it was a military necessity without which the republic could not have survived.

[johnfoss]

Wow, did you think that up and write it? Fascinating!

Reminds me of the movie Idiocracy. Ever seen that? Same concept, only without the help of a church. Stupid people and poor planners have more babies than smart people/better planners. Eventually they rule the world!

[pedrotejada]

Originally Posted by johnfoss

Wow, did you think that up and write it? Fascinating!

Reminds me of the movie Idiocracy. Ever seen that? Same concept, only without the help of a church. Stupid people and poor planners have more babies than smart people/better planners. Eventually they rule the world!

Just heard something cool today at history class:

Spartans wen't to the army really early, and didn't had much contact to women, who were also in training programs... So the state kinda stimulated homosexual relationships between the soldiers. The main advantage came in the battles. When a soldier was in dangerous situations, he would try to defend the ones he loves, so he was more likely to help his sexual partner.

It was new for me... Now I must rewatch "300" with a different point of view for my history test!

Also, kinda crazy: In the medieval feudal society, even with the church over there, the girls were not considered citizens like the men. Men used to keep homosexual relationships between themselves and even with the feud chief. The weirdest part comes here: The marriage ceremony as we know (and I consider it extremely boring ), is TOTALLY based on a feudal relationship between the feud sir and the vassal! The vassal was submitted to his sir and should swear loyalty. The sir compromised to give lands and protection. By the end the ceremony was sealed by a priest and both kissed each other.

I kinda quoted that from my teacher speech. Kinda hard to translate with his words ! And Im not sure if it's 100% right... But the main idea, as he said is: The world is gay! And that's not new!

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by pedrotejada

Now I must rewatch "300" with a different point of view for my history test!

Caution: the movie "300" and "history test" should not have anything in common with each other...

[feel the light]

Originally Posted by pedrotejada

I kinda quoted that from my teacher speech. Kinda hard to translate with his words ! And Im not sure if it's 100% right... But the main idea, as he said is: The world is gay! And that's not new!

True. I shouldn't have described Jew-Jesus-Islam as ancient. Much earlier, the Greek city states, and then the Roman states after them, had public baths where sexes mingled nude. Nudity was the norm, and gay sex was unremarkable and not condemned.

People got a lot more war like and prudish in the post Roman, Crusades, dark age of 1000 years period. That is the time when inquisitions against anyone who was against the "baby sex only" , "married folk only", sex, was seriously shut out of public discourse, or stoned or burned at the stake. These are the religions we have inherited today, not those of the extra ancient Greeks and Romans. I am confident that modern Islam and Christianity was formed in the middle ages and fought many a battle that was settled by which side had more men.

[pedrotejada]

Originally Posted by johnfoss

Caution: the movie "300" and "history test" should not have anything in common with each other...

It actually have ! As I'm going to course Cinema, I have to do many texts comparing reality and movies ... Kinda funny to see how we are played by the film industry! The 300 movie have some of the traditions and behaviors kinda explained... Not directly, but the research made for the film was deep... I love history movies... Specially the second war ones Manhood had the biggest society technologic revolutions during wars

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by feel the light

Prohibiting knowledge of birth control and non procreational sex was the first task of any successful ancient religion. This was of paramount importance in order to maximize the size of your army. Armys pop out of pregnant married woman. The children of unmarried woman tend to starve and die before they can grow up into soldiers. So it is only moral to insist a man be assigned to each woman to help feed the children. And trained to do only baby making sex.....

The moral of the story ? If your moral dogma fails to suppress gay-type sex, your culture and religion had no morals. You would have been over run and everyone would be dead soon. Not so much because gay sex pisses off god. Teaching birth control to hetro folk must be prevented at all cost. Seen this way, stoning the gays had not just a logical consistency, it was a military necessity without which the republic could not have survived.

Wow! So you endorse homosexuality and birth control today, and view the homophobia and anti-birth control message of Bush/Republicans/conservatives as outdated.

Cool!

As far as prohibiting knowledge of non procreational sex, that probably extends to the prohibitions against masturbation.

But non procreational sex doesn't have to be taught, actually. Primates even do it, and humans must be taught intercourse.

[reprah]

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

...birth...of Bush...

Billy. So predictable.

[feel the light]

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

Wow! So you endorse homosexuality and birth control today, and view the homophobia and anti-birth control message of Bush/Republicans/conservatives as outdated.

Cool!

As far as prohibiting knowledge of non procreational sex, that probably extends to the prohibitions against masturbation.

But non procreational sex doesn't have to be taught, actually. Primates even do it, and humans must be taught intercourse.

I have my doubts that intercourse or non baby making sex needs to be taught. It is true that all primates seemed to figure it out spontaneously, even before there was internet porn.

To teach a gospel of love and responsibility where one explains how to have a devoted and caring relationship with a girl, without doing baby making sex, this is not known in Jewish, Christian, or Islamic teachings. In fact, such teachings would be an extreme of blasphemy. Birth control works best when taught, it is not natural to be sharper than Bristol Palin.

I could teach now that it is more fun and loving to do non baby making sex with a girl you care about, but don't want to impregnate, than to pork her puss in the missionary way. No one will come and nail me up by my palms to die for suggesting such immoral ideas.

That is because our army's size, and the survival of our people doesn't rely on maximizing our birth rate anymore. So being gay, and teaching gay-sorta sex advices isn't viewed as bringing on the end times by most people now.

When I was a boy, we were going to get a hunting bird dog. I told my dad we should get a springer spaniel, not a pointer. The springer smells the bird and charges in, flushing it into the air. The pointer smells the bird, then gets all rigid, bends down a bit and points at it.

My reasoning for wanting the springer was simple. I was a good dog trainer, and I taught Bean (the springer we bought) , to sit, stay, go this way, and retrieve. But I didn't want no pointer dog, because I didn't know how to teach the dog to point.

It wasn't until later that I learned the pointer dog owners didn't know how to teach the dogs to point either. They laughed at me when I asked them how they had done that. They hadn't taught the dogs anything, when they smell a pheasant, they get all tense and quiet and crouch down and point at it instinctively, and then hope with all there hearts to see it shot. That's just a pointer, you can't teach a dog that, they feel it and just do it because they are pointers.

Likewise, I think some humans are natural pointers. It's just what they are want to do. I personally get no pleasure by pointing my finger at others and denigrating their sexuality, religion, or race. But perhaps thats because I am a springer, not a pointer. The human race is richer to have both kinds.

[unireed]

Originally Posted by feel the light

But perhaps thats because I am a springer, not a pointer. The human race is richer to have both kinds.

so what you're saying is, when you face a problem, you run up to it and hope it flies away and you let someone else deal with it? jk

[feel the light]

YouTube- Britany Dog Stalking a Bobwhite Quail

Some people just have pointing in them, like the dog in the above vid. Love it or hate it, some people are just driven innately to point at others for no more intellectual reason than the dog uses in the above video.

[Michaelgoround]

You know what is funny feelthelight? Well sad really. Is that the Bible does not preach conquering one another through hate (war), but through showing love and compassion to people. To being God's hands and feet in the world. The Bible is much more complex then you seem to describe it, as also Judaism and probably Islam.

And the real Christians (BTW) were in existense in the first three centuries. And christianity (as from what I've seen) was a religion of great love and not hate in it's infancy and has always had a loving remnant, you just have to find it. What the problem is that people like Constantine (Roman ruler) took over "Christianity" and used it for their own gains, preaching a false gospel of superiority and spreading the "word" by the sword instead of through love.

Jesus often said "If you seek to be great in my kingdom you must become the servant of all."

Also, I don't think you guys are debating Jesus support of heterosexual marriage, but in Mathew 19 (first ten verses mainly) talks about that.

Please do not look at what "Christ followers" do in order to proclaim their own Gospel, but look at what Jesus did. As was well said by Ghandi: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Right now I am looking into what Jesus really said to do, and will hopefully be able to practise it more and more daily. Slowly but surely giving up myself and laying down my life so that others might live. "Greater love has no man than this, that he would lay down his life for his friends."

Christians often seem to preach the oppisite of what Jesus said and they most certainly do not live it out.

The Sermon on the Mount is a very short synopsis of Jesus teachings. And I'm thinking not completely full.

If you want to ask me any questions I'm open to them. I know I can't answer everything. No one but the breather of the universe can do that. We must all have faith, and we all do.