Schlumpf hubs: general discussion.

[Yeti]

Thanks for the pics. So it actually works with some handcrafting. Nevertheless we are in the situation now that Kris Holm offers hubs, cranks, and frames that are mutually incompatible. From a customer view that is not a satisfying situation. So I wonder when the product portfolio will become aligned.

[scotthue]

Originally Posted by Yeti

Thanks for the pics. So it actually works with some handcrafting. Nevertheless we are in the situation now that Kris Holm offers hubs, cranks, and frames that are mutually incompatible. From a customer view that is not a satisfying situation. So I wonder when the product portfolio will become aligned.

None of that is true. You're disappointed that the older models of things are not compatible with newer (and better) models. Is there anything that is of the current model that does not fit with any other new KH part?

Personally, I am quite happy that as a business, Kris is willing to explain how to retrofit older parts to work with the newer ones. How many businesses would be willing to do that? It encourages you not to buy all of their newer products.

[nathan]

Just went for my first test ride with the Spirit Cranks and Avid Elixir 5 disc brake on my KH36 Schlumpf. I have to say it is a whole new level of awesomeness. It is beyond belief how smooth and easy it is to brake. It feels as easy or easier than in low gear - I never thought that could ever be possible.

Stopping power with the 160mm rotor is not that much (would not satisfy Chuck, that's for sure), but for long steep descents, it is a game changer.

I only have time for 2 more test rides before I pack for Switzerland, but I think this brake is coming with me! (Will bring the old as a backup of course).

Kris, thanks so much but why didn't you do this years ago?! Joe, you are the man for putting together the kit and getting it out here so quick so that we could actually do this. Scott, your photos helped us a lot. And Corbin, THANKS!

---Nathan

[svzurich]

That brake and setup look perfect for my KH26! I'm ordering my package from Joe just as soon as the frames come in.

Kimmie, excited at new toys, even if they are not computer related.

[Alan Hogan]

Originally Posted by Yeti

Thanks for the pics. So it actually works with some handcrafting. Nevertheless we are in the situation now that Kris Holm offers hubs, cranks, and frames that are mutually incompatible. From a customer view that is not a satisfying situation. So I wonder when the product portfolio will become aligned.

Designs evolve .... and hindsight is 20/20 ...... yeah there is a bit of home modification required but that is part of participating in a minority sport.... for me it adds to the experience

[nathan]

Originally Posted by Alan Hogan

Designs evolve .... and hindsight is 20/20 ...... yeah there is a bit of home modification required but that is part of participating in a minority sport.... for me it adds to the experience

Well said Alan.

[Yeti]

Originally Posted by scotthue

None of that is true. You're disappointed that the older models of things are not compatible with newer (and better) models. Is there anything that is of the current model that does not fit with any other new KH part?

I'd like to quote Roland Wende, owner of municycle.com:

Originally Posted by wendino

ich musste an der neuen KH Gabel wieder etwas abschleifen sonst hätte weder die Nabe noch die Scheibenbremse gepasst.

Which means he again had to grind down the new KH frames. Otherwise neither hub nor disc brake would fit.

[turtle]

Originally Posted by Alan Hogan

Designs evolve .... and hindsight is 20/20 ...... yeah there is a bit of home modification required but that is part of participating in a minority sport.... for me it adds to the experience

+1

that's also a reason i love this sport and I'm not mountain biking....! schlumpf and disc brake is a new level in muni and probably also in road riding (36")

[scotthue]

Originally Posted by Yeti

I'd like to quote Roland Wende, owner of municycle.com:



Which means he again had to grind down the new KH frames. Otherwise neither hub nor disc brake would fit.

He had to grind down the newest KH disc frame to get it to fit with a Schlumpf and Spirit cranks?

[Yeti]

Originally Posted by scotthue

He had to grind down the newest KH disc frame to get it to fit with a Schlumpf and Spirit cranks?

That is what he said.

[adelman]

Originally Posted by OutdoorJunkie

Just make sure to thread the crank puller into the cranks properly, also make sure you have the ISIS foot down if it is a isis and square taper crank puller.

There are two important parts to pulling cranks --

1) Be sure you have the right tool. The ISIS puller has a wider tip; if you use the square-taper tip on a splined crank you'll screw up the threads in the axle that the crank bolt goes into. If you use an ISIS puller on a square-taper crank, the tip, if it fits at all, will hit the crank arm and as you torque the center bolt down, you'll probably end up stripping the 22mm threads that the extractor goes into. Older pullers without a floating tip shouldn't be used on "bolt-style" axles, only "nut style", but the floating tip can be used on either. Square-taper Schlumpf hubs (the original type, not the KH/Schlumpf) require a special adapter (it came with the hub) to protect the shifting pin from the extractor. KH/Onza cranks (older generation) need a left-handed puller (if the original self-extractors are damaged); Campy used to make one, so they are available (I have one). Especially on aluminum cranks, be sure you use a high-quality one that isn't worn -- the Park Tools ones are best. Their CCP-22/CCP-44 seem like the best combination, but the CWP-7 puller will work on unicycles without having to pull the pedals first.

2) NOW THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART -- Be sure that the 22mm shell is fully-engaged into the crank before you start to tighten the extractor bolt (and do not cross thread it). The most common mistake is to set the extractor up so that when you *think* you've made contact with the bottom of the crank, you've actually made contact between the axle and the extractor bolt -- i.e., you're not all the way in. If you're not all the way in, you're going to damage the 22mm extractor threads when you try to pull the crank. The best way to avoid this problem, is, AFTER you tighten the 22mm extractor shell into the crank, be sure that you can spin the extractor bolt by hand -- this verifies that the bolt isn't contacting the axle and what you felt "bottom" when you tightened the shell as indeed the shell. If you have trouble threading the shell, don't use a wrench, take it to a professional. There are a number of tools that can be used for thread-repair and this is best done BEFORE you really screw them up by cross threading.

If you can't get the cranks off, or if you strip the extractor threads, you can loosen or remove them by loosening the center bolt a turn or two looser than hand-tight and do some hopping on the unicycle. (Leave the bolt in to catch the crank as it falls off, to avoid injury.)

Reinstalling cranks?

Use a torque wrench. Medium strength thread-locker on the bolt (Loctite 242, the blue stuff). I torque non-ISIS cranks to 400 in-lbs (350 would be considered a minimum, 450 is really high). The new ISIS cranks are problematic; I would say that 350 is a maximum and 300 is more appropriate for a KH/Schlumpf hub. For my KH/Schlumpf, I use a setting bolt (which has a bigger hex driver and is less likely to strip) and torque to 350 in-lbs to "set" the cranks, then I install the regular bolt with loctite to around 325. Carry a wrench with you on the first few rides, and retorque after each ride until it stops turning when you go to retorque. KH/Schlumpf? I always reinstall my shift buttons using a torque wrench and I've never lost one.

[unicycle6869]

Just an observation over the past few months. Whenever I shift into high gear on my KH26, with 137 cranks, I feel taller. I'm not sure if this is just a psychological thing and I think I'm taller cause my mind thinks it's a bigger wheel thus should be taller or if I actually do sit up straighter and am actually taller. I'm guessing it is maybe a combo of both. It just feels like I have to duck more for branches in high gear vs. low gear. Curious if anyone else has experience this?

[DavidHood]

Originally Posted by unicycle6869

my mind thinks it's a bigger wheel

when I shift my 36er into high gear, it helps to imagine that I'm actually riding this guy's 56" wheel.

[scotthue]

Originally Posted by Yeti

That is what he said.

Where? I believe what Kris was saying is that if you want to use the Spirit cranks with the older (non-disc mount) frames, you would have to grind them down. I'm pretty positive that the new cranks and frame work great together. But I can let you know this afternoon when my 36 frame comes in the mail. (I managed to bend the D'brake when I stopped really quickly in high gear.)

[Alan Hogan]

Originally Posted by scotthue

Where? I believe what Kris was saying is that if you want to use the Spirit cranks with the older (non-disc mount) frames, you would have to grind them down. I'm pretty positive that the new cranks and frame work great together. But I can let you know this afternoon when my 36 frame comes in the mail. (I managed to bend the D'brake when I stopped really quickly in high gear.)

Only because you go too fast Scott!!!