The war in Gaza!

[sigve]

There isn't any threads about it as far as I can see, so I made one.

Who do you support?
Why?

There isn't any answer to this of course, people see it from different perspectives.

I support the Palestinians, because they have been struggeling for about 40 years, and been push into a ghetto by Israels leaders. I do not support hamas at all, but I understand why they are created. Think about it, what would your people do if they were in the palestinians situation? Probably made some organisation to fight back, but the way hamas do it is far from fair. Also the way Israel are doing it.
Israel is now breaking every law of war there is, not letting food supplies, medical supplies or even reporters into Gaza. The only "reporter" in Gaza is Mads Gilbert and Erik Fosse, and they are doctors.

Write your opinions!

[tim_desmet]

they both suck

[sigve]

What do you mean with both?
Israel and Hamas? (hopefully)

[Rezinha]

Every stupid war suck.
People suck.

Edit: and every war is stupid.

[Jeremy R]

Lets turn the tables for a second. Argentina declares it is developing Nuclear Bombs and is going to Wipe Brazil off the map. Now how do we feel, rezzy?

[Rezinha]

Originally Posted by Jeremy R

Lets turn the tables for a second. Argentina declares it is developing Nuclear Bombs and is going to Wipe Brazil off the map. Now how do we feel, rezzy?

I would still think it's stupid.
Just because it envolves my country doesn't mean it's right!
I would say "Ok then, blow that f*ucking thing up and kill everybody because humanity is stupid". Hahah
And, if I were a guy, I would fight for Brazil. Never. I wouldn't fight for any country.

[peleschramm]

I can see both sides. (I am actually from Israel and was in Israel when the war started).

The thing is, a ceasefire has been called between Gaza and Israel a few years back. Gaza has not been honoring this ceasefire and has still been sending missiles to Israeli cities every now and then, and Israel has finally decided to put a stop to this (since we can't just keep on getting bombed now, can we?)

That being said, I can understand why the Palestinians are kinda pissed that we pushed them off their land. I also understand why they would want it back. (Although, it was a UN decision to send all the Jewish refugees to Palestine to take over, it wasn't necessarily our decision.)

Also keep in mind that the Hamas has been TARGETING civilians all these years, while the Israeli army is targeting the Hamas and only the Hamas, but Hamas was clever enough to build all their headquarters amongst civilians. So I suppose Israel doesn't have much of a choice. If they want to attack Hamas, they must have some civilian casualties as well.

That being said, I think it would be best if we would just leave things the way they are minus the violence. I'm tired of all this violence. Perhaps Israel should give up some more of It's land (Gaza used to be part of Israel until Israel decided to give it back to the Palestinians, and keep in mind the Jews living in Gaza also had to give up their homes and also had to evacuate), but just giving Israel over back to the Palestinians is preposterous. These are mostly Holocaust refugees, that were left with absolutely nothing, and giving everything back to the Palestinians would put them back in this position.

[wickedbob]

That sounds like quite the problem. A very ugly situation.

[peleschramm]

Originally Posted by wickedbob

That sounds like quite the problem. A very ugly situation.

Yes indeed. This is one of those ongoing conflicts with no real clear solution.

[UniBrier]

Originally Posted by sigve

I support the Palestinians, because they have been struggeling for about 40 years, and been push into a ghetto by Israels leaders. I do not support hamas at all, but I understand why they are created. Think about it, what would your people do if they were in the palestinians situation? Probably made some organisation to fight back, but the way hamas do it is far from fair. Also the way Israel are doing it.
Israel is now breaking every law of war there is, not letting food supplies, medical supplies or even reporters into Gaza. The only "reporter" in Gaza is Mads Gilbert and Erik Fosse, and they are doctors.

Originally Posted by peleschramm

The thing is, a ceasefire has been called between Gaza and Israel a few years back. Gaza has not been honoring this ceasefire and has still been sending missiles to Israeli cities every now and then, and Israel has finally decided to put a stop to this (since we can't just keep on getting bombed now, can we?)

Also keep in mind that the Hamas has been TARGETING civilians all these years, while the Israeli army is targeting the Hamas and only the Hamas, but Hamas was clever enough to build all their headquarters amongst civilians. So I suppose Israel doesn't have much of a choice. If they want to attack Hamas, they must have some civilian casualties as well.

Your comments remind me of Charles Krauthammer's column last Sunday.

Late Saturday, thousands of Gazans received Arabic-language cell-phone messages from the Israeli military, urging them to leave homes where militants might have stashed weapons. -- Associated Press, Dec. 27

WASHINGTON -- Some geopolitical conflicts are morally complicated. The Israel-Gaza war is not. It possesses a moral clarity not only rare but excruciating.

Israel is so scrupulous about civilian life that, risking the element of surprise, it contacts enemy noncombatants in advance to warn them of approaching danger. Hamas, which started this conflict with unrelenting rocket and mortar attacks on unarmed Israelis -- 6,464 launched from Gaza in the last three years -- deliberately places its weapons in and near the homes of its own people.

This has two purposes. First, counting on the moral scrupulousness of Israel, Hamas figures civilian proximity might help protect at least part of its arsenal. Second, knowing that Israelis have new precision weapons that may allow them to attack nonetheless, Hamas hopes that inevitable collateral damage -- or, if it is really fortunate, an errant Israeli bomb -- will kill large numbers of its own people for which, of course, the world will blame Israel.

For Hamas the only thing more prized than dead Jews are dead Palestinians. The religion of Jew-murder and self-martyrdom is ubiquitous... .

At war today in Gaza, one combatant is committed to causing the most civilian pain and suffering on both sides. The other combatant is committed to saving as many lives as possible -- also on both sides...

That is the asymmetry of means between Hamas and Israel. But there is equal clarity regarding the asymmetry of ends. Israel has but a single objective in Gaza -- peace: the calm, open, normal relations it offered Gaza when it withdrew in 2005. Doing something never done by the Turkish, British, Egyptian and Jordanian rulers of Palestine, the Israelis gave the Palestinians their first sovereign territory ever in Gaza.

What ensued? This is not ancient history. Did the Palestinians begin building the state that is supposedly their great national aim? No. No roads, no industry, no courts, no civil society at all. The flourishing greenhouses that Israel left behind for the Palestinians were destroyed and abandoned. Instead, Gaza's Iranian-sponsored rulers have devoted all their resources to turning it into a terror base -- importing weapons, training terrorists, building tunnels with which to kidnap Israelis on the other side. And of course firing rockets unceasingly.

...Since its raison d'etre is the eradication of Israel, there are only two possible outcomes: the defeat of Hamas or the extinction of Israel...

[peleschramm]

Originally Posted by UniBrier

Your comments remind me of Charles Krauthammer's column last Sunday.

That is well written.

[thejdw]

People have stopped buying israeli new potatoes in sainsburys, any thoughts on that?

[UniBrier]

Seems they've been boycotting potatoes for at least 1 1/2 years already.

So, are they buying Hamas potatoes instead?

[sigve]

Originally Posted by UniBrier

Seems they've been boycotting potatoes for at least 1 1/2 years already.

So, are they buying Hamas potatoes instead?

Haha, very funny.......

Originally Posted by peleschramm

I can see both sides. (I am actually from Israel and was in Israel when the war started).

The thing is, a ceasefire has been called between Gaza and Israel a few years back. Gaza has not been honoring this ceasefire and has still been sending missiles to Israeli cities every now and then, and Israel has finally decided to put a stop to this (since we can't just keep on getting bombed now, can we?)

Originally Posted by peleschramm

Also keep in mind that the Hamas has been TARGETING civilians all these years, while the Israeli army is targeting the Hamas and only the Hamas, but Hamas was clever enough to build all their headquarters amongst civilians. So I suppose Israel doesn't have much of a choice. If they want to attack Hamas, they must have some civilian casualties as well.

I kind of understand you, but dont know why you say "Have some civilians". Because according to the only "reporters" there, they havn't seen any hamas people, neither has the other doctors in the hospital in Gaza. There is speculations if Hamas are using a selfmade or their own hospital, but how can we know..

Of course, some people find it hard trusting the norwegian reporters (doctors), especially Mads Gilbert. Who once said that he understood why terrorists did an attack on 9/11, and if i remember correctly, he also said he supported it! (??)

I'm still supporting the civilian palestines, and I'm truly against Hamas, and the Israelian leaders. But everyone has their own oppinions, eh?

[BillyTheMountain]

The coolest thing about war is, whoever "we" attack is bad, and "we" are always good.

Though occasionally good people do bad things to other good people--like when we accidentally kill civilians, children, UN Peacekeepers, aid workers, etc.