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Old 2008-12-05, 09:46 PM   #1
Axi
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Welcome to the Dicatorship of Sweden! (Or EU)

This was in the AB forums and it is written by The Fox.
I posted it in here because I think that this is extremely serious thing and must be stopped.



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During the past few days, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, have emailed, spoken out, debated and set their foot down against a new law being accepted into our country. Despite the fact that this country prouds itself on being democratic and listening to the peoples voices, the government outright ignored any and all opposition against this new law. Why? Because of pressure from a few record companies and movie companies, I can only assume the RIAA/MPIAA along with the game industry and everything digital too. While I know for a fact that the opposition from the people was far greater and stronger than any of what those in favor of this law could even dream of mustering, it was still passed. This new law will make it so that private companies can act as police, demanding out names behinde IPs, this far exceeds any right that even our own police have. Why? So they can send out mafia style messages, threatening of paying up or going to court. The new law, called IPRED, is a blow against pirating. While I can adjust myself to this, and I probably will find more ways around it, It is still a blow against our democracy. Currently alot of smoke screens and curtains are being put forward in a attempt to blockade the knowledge of several motions being put forward by the EU, things such as giving the police enforcement right to install keyloggers on peoples computers, our border police taking away and scanning all electronical devices in search for pirated things, amongst much more.

Currently, a law called FRA will come in effect at the turn of this year, allowed our military to scan and tap into all of our communcations through Internet, text and phone in search of terrorists. Terrorists which have never operated within Sweden, we have never had a act of terrorism happen upon our country, and it has been well over 100 years since our last war. The main factor behinde this law was that it is to root out any terrorists operating within the country, but as I mentioned, there has not been a single shred of evidence that any terrorists operate within our countries borders. This law didnt even have a clause that said that the information gathered by the army cannot be used to persecute a person, unless its planning of terrorism that is the crime. The law didnt have a clause that, before our military starts individual collecting of data, it had to go through a court. Those two clauses was added after several thousands of people, if not millions, spoke out against it. IT-Experts condemned it, people called it a breach of human rights, yet still the government accepted it.

Even as I type this message, motions are being put into suggestion in the EU and in Sweden, in regards of keeping track of any people who dare oppose anything that the EU consider to be against their beliefs. As such our indivdual freedom of talking out against the EU and things that they consider shouldnt be spoken out against, could become criminalised. Things such as denying the holocaust, while I do not agree with, could become a normal routine to be accused and thrown into jail for. Speaking out against immigrants in a bad way, could also get you thrown into jail. Conspiring to do petty crimes or even say the wrong words could lead to you being put into jail. People say that the US is infringed their populations rights as individuals, but I can tell you, no matter what they are doing, its nowhere near as bad as it is here. Seeing as how it is the EU that is putting forth all of these outright stupid motions, all countries taking a part of the EU has to accept these into their countries as law, which would mean that no country that is a member of EU would go free from anything of this.

Another law that is currently being talked about in EU is the so called IPRED 2, which could see pirates thrown into jail for up to 2 years for downloading and uploading files, While our government said no to one which would give a potentional pirate 3 warnings before having their Internet access cut off. Atleast, I believe they shot down that motion. Where is the logic in not allowing people 3 warnings before being shut off from the Internet, while allowing people to be thrown in jail for up to 2 years and paying gigantic fines is fine?

IPRED, the current law now, never had any clause that old information gathered could be used to sue people. In Sweden, we have a law that says that no man can be charged for a crime he or she commited, while that act was legal to do, should it ever become illegal. Not until these gigantic protests as I described a part up started, did this clause get added. Our own goverment, willing to break our fundamental laws. This law has also been spoken out against by several experts and ex-police working in the department of catching pedophiles, saying that they will gain better methods of hiding their true identity, should this suggestion pass. This was brought to the attention of our politics, and dismissed as nonsense. I know for a fact that right now, there are quite the bit of methods out there to effectively hide my IP while im downloading/uploading something, making it untracable for any person to find out who I am. Now, imagine these programs, only they are being used by pedophiles to spread child pornography. Apparently, pirates are a bigger threat in the eyes of politcians than child predators are, But hey, as long as the private companies gets the right to sue families, which could have children, and put teens in a depth they can never get out, any other crime that gets better tools doesnt matter.

Another thing which I also brought up was a motion by the EU to allow the police enforcement to implent keyloggers into individuals computers, should they be suspected of commiting crime. What this would mean, is that anything that is typed on a computer, credit card numbers, passwords, sensitive things which shouldnt go beyond the privacy of the person typing it, and the person/server on the other end, could end up in the hands of the public or be abused by the police. So, what would happen if a innocent citizen had one of these keyloggers implented on him? His whole life would be exposed to whoever would be in charge of keeping it, and since we know information easily can get lost, what would happen when it does get lost, and credit card numbers, passwords etc gets into the hands of the public? The police, obviously, has no obligation to notify whoever they have implented the keylogger on that they have it on them, neither will they need a court ruling that allows them to implent it. Once again, our privacy is invaded upon, while similiar cases, or even ones which have been far more lenient or understanding, have been shot down as being a violation of human rights.

One could ask himself, why is all of this being passed, why are all of these motions being taken around, when this is a clear violation of my privacy as a individual? What goal could the EU possibly have from knowing what I type on my computer, Wether I choose to deny the holocaust, Wether I hate immigrants or want to strap on a suicide vest and blow myself up in the name of a God? What could the military possibly have to do with my personal things, such as my fetishes, what I type to my friends over the internet, what I download? What could private companies, which lose nothing from pirates, something which has been proven by proffesors at Harward, have to gain by pushing for ludicrous laws such as IPRED/IPRED2? People speak of Big Brother in the US, while he certainly doesnt exist over there, He exists over here. At the turn of this year, every single individual in Sweden will be monitored closely, Privacy is a thing long gone on the Internet here. The turn of this year will infringe upon our rights as human indivduals, and seeing as how the government is willing to do this, imagine what happens once the EU puts up the proposal for a gigantic archive to keep track of what is being done on the Internet to track criminals? People who oppose what the EU believes?

While I do not agree with Nazis and the like, they should have the same right to say what they want to, They should have just as much right to post a Swastika as I have a right to post a image of a Hammer and a Sickle. People who hate immigrants should have the same rights as people who love immigrants, to post that they hate them and that they shouldnt come into our countries. They shouldnt be jailed for having a opinion, but they will, sooner or later.

The EU has begun acting like what they were made to prevent, like they iron fist ruling Nazis during the period of Hitler. Invade all privacy, anyone who doesnt think and follow what we say, should be thrown into jail. Screw human rights, Anyone who even as much as jokes about strapping on a suicide vest and blowing himself up is now a terrorist and should be marked for life. Anyone who doesnt like immigrants, well, guess what, now your thoughts are illegal.

I am not sure what the worst thing of all is, the fact that this is happening or the fact that Swedish citizens ignore it. By the turn of this year, any talk about overthrowing the government will now class you as a terrorist and get you sent into jail for life.

While I know I would rather die fighting the Swedish government, none else appears to want to. The generation being affected by this government are too set in the Internet age, talking about DDoSing and spamming emails to congress, while the politcians are dead set in the old ways of the typing machine. I can only hope that the next politics being put into power will rid these rules, if not, I have no idea what I would do.

If my post isnt enough to start your imagination, go and watch V for Vendetta. Everything that happens in the movie is partly true, or is about to come true for us who live in Europe, especially Sweden.

Can I please welcome you to the Dictatorship of Sweden, infringing on your and my rights since 2009.

What do you think?
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Old 2008-12-05, 10:09 PM   #2
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Are you in Sweden or in Finland? Anyways, I agree with your general point, this is scary - and indeed you can only wait for it to spread across Europe and beyond.

I am subscribed to EDRI-gram, a newsletter about digital civil rights in Europe. Back issues on their site www.edri.org. This is what they had to say about the issue, a few days ago. It gives a couple of links at the end for more background (which I haven't visited though).

4. Sweden on the verge of passing the local IPRED law
============================================================

The Sweden Government is to pass these days a controversial law that might
give the entertainment industry some tools to track down those that
illegally share copyrighted material on the Internet.

The law, which is based on the European Union's Intellectual Property Rights
Enforcement Directive (IPRED), has been under debate for more than a year
and claims to be essential by the Swedish industry which complains that,
presently, Sweden lacks the necessary legislation to support them: " Swedish
laws are considered something of a joke and our politicians are viewed as
arrogant for not taking this seriously. Sweden has the worst laws in this
area and, consequently, the worst problems with piracy. It is embarrassing
that Sweden has waited so long to put in place a directive that was
implemented long ago by our European neighbours." says a letter addressed to
the Swedish Government by the director and producers of the Swedish movie
"Let The Right One In".

The law, which is planned to come into force on 1 April 2009, would make it
possible for copyright holders to get a court order requesting ISPs to
provide IP addresses associated with computers which have downloaded
copyrighted material without paying for it.

The copyright holders could afterwards contact those suspected of illegal
file sharing requesting them to stop the activity. If those in question do
not comply, the copyright holders can use the information obtained from the
ISPs to sue the infringer and ask for compensation for copyright violations.
With this, the Swedish draft law would go even farther than IPRED.

The proposed law faces a large opposition from centre-right political
parties and youth organisations. More than 22 000 members have joined a
group started by Pirate Party vice-chair Christian Engström on Facebook
which is called Stoppa IPRED (Stop IPRED) and which has sent e-mails of
protests to Swedish Parliament members.

"We have examples from other countries where this has amounted to the
legalization of wide-spread blackmail. Record companies get the name of
someone suspected of file sharing and send out a letter demanding 20,000
Swedish crowns (1 800 euros) or some other made up sum with the threat that
if you don't pay, we'll be taking you to court" said Engström

In an attempt to answer to these concerns, according to Sveriges Radio,
justice minister Beatrice Ask, whose ministry is responsible for the law,
has asked for the deletion from the draft law of a clause making the law
enforceable retroactively, fact which would have giving the industry
the possibility to access information about people who have been illegally
downloading copyrighted material over the past few years and therefore to
take the respective people to court for actions performed in the past.
Another change that seems to have been introduced by the minister is that IP
addresses can only be given when the suspected file sharing is "of
commercial nature."

The vote of the Swedish Parliament on the matters is expected these days.

Swedish copyright laws 'a joke' (26.11.2008)
http://www.thelocal.se/15946/20081126/

Justice minister offers concessions on file sharing law (21.11.2008)
http://www.thelocal.se/15844/20081121/

Sweden judges back Pirate Hunter Act (14.11.2008)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11...ntipiracy_law/

Lines drawn in battle over file sharing bill (14.11.2008)
http://www.thelocal.se/15688/20081114/

Resistance mounts to new file sharing law (7.11.2008)
http://www.thelocal.se/15536/20081107/

============================================================
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Old 2008-12-05, 10:15 PM   #3
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I hope they are smart about it and not just go after everyone who downloads and uploads via torrent. A lot of companies use torrents as their main distribution of their product. I myself use torrents to easily upload files from my comp to a friends comp, or for myself to access when im not at home on my own comp. Perfectly legal and very convenient. No way im gonna send 50gigs through an e-mail, haha.
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Old 2008-12-05, 10:20 PM   #4
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I sincerely wish you success in avoiding the draconian legislation that has been purchased or extorted in so many nations, including my own.
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Old 2008-12-05, 11:43 PM   #5
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Based on a brief reading of the texts posted in this thread, it seems legislators have the belief that an IP address can be correlated with an individual.

Google "lawsuit" "IP address" and "wrong person" and you'll find many terrifying stories of people locked up for crimes they didn't commit. Legislators have been trying to coerce ISPs to enforce stricter associations between individuals and IP addresses, but this isn't a problem that can be solved with legislation...

I, too, am scared of all the legislation and litigation that is associated with digital media these days. Unfortunately, the R*AAs and M*AAs of the world have a lot more money, influence and organized manpower than us little people. It's not looking good for "us".
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Old 2008-12-06, 11:43 AM   #6
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On a slightly relevent note, here's what happened in Singapore last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odex%27...t_file-sharing

To summarize, there's this company that distributes anime. One fine day they decide to threaten some ISPs with lawsuits unless they divulge details of clients whom they've identified as being file-sharers/downloaders (specifically of the anime they've got rights to distribute). Pressured, details were given out and the file-sharers were all served orders to pay a fine or face legal action.

People got scared, paid up but there was public uproar over the injust of the matter - rich company threatens people who can't afford legal action. There was talk of a class action suit but I'm not sure what goes of that. The issue has now faded into obscurity (media-wise) but everyone knows that by setting a precedent, who knows what can follow.
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Old 2008-12-06, 05:45 PM   #7
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Are you in Sweden or in Finland?
Finland. Ok, this isnt actually my proplem, butt if EU is gona ratify this kind of laws, it is my proplem. ( actually it isnt, because I never download anything illegal) Butt, I still think that this is serious. '
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Old 2008-12-07, 08:52 AM   #8
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That is bad bad law. An IP address is not a reliable way of who is sharing a file. There are various technical reasons why. If an IP address was a reliable way of identifying who was sharing or downloading then why do cases like this happen:
Quote:
Erroneous Complaint: Seven record labels mistakenly sued a 65-year-old Massachusetts woman for copyright infringement. They had filed a complaint against Sarah Ward based solely on KaZaA screenshots and Comcast's disclosure of her name and address in response to a subpoena. The record labels were forced to dismiss the complaint after learning that Ward used only a Macintosh computer incapable of running the KaZaA software.
You cannot change technical reality by passing a law. That's like passing a law that PI will be equal to 3.

If laws like that get passed we are all at risk of being a victim of an erroneous claim of P2P copyright infringement. I could get a letter from Comcast tomorrow claiming I was sharing a bunch of rap songs. It would be untrue and in error, but how would I defend against it?
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Old 2008-12-07, 10:40 AM   #9
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Does She Look Like a Music Pirate?

Quote:
Inside Tanya Andersen's private war with the recording industry. Hint: She's winning
Andersen got the piracy case against her dropped; now she's going after the RIAA for conspiracy
Are there any programs available that spoof IP address and make it look like a particular IP address is sharing files that it isn't? I believe such a program would be technically possible. If such a program exists it would create false positives that the RIAA try to sue them.
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Old 2008-12-08, 01:18 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by john_childs View Post
Are there any programs available that spoof IP address and make it look like a particular IP address is sharing files that it isn't? I believe such a program would be technically possible. If such a program exists it would create false positives that the RIAA try to sue them.
Actually, RIAA affiliates have been known to use exactly this technique to flood older filesharing networks with invalid results for material they were trying to "protect."
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Old 2008-12-08, 01:52 AM   #11
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Actually, RIAA affiliates have been known to use exactly this technique to flood older filesharing networks with invalid results for material they were trying to "protect."
If those techniques work with BitTorrent then it would really put a monkey wrench in the litigation works if a group organized some poisoning and spoofed a bunch of Comcast (or pick your favorite ISP) address with fake sharing. It wouldn't make the file shares overly happy as they'd have to deal with a bunch of fake peers. But it would cause plausible deniability for people accused by the RIAA because there would be known spoofing.

IP address are not a reliable way of identifying people who are doing P2P sharing.
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Old 2008-12-08, 02:17 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by john_childs View Post
if a group organized some poisoning and spoofed a bunch of Comcast (or pick your favorite ISP) address with fake sharing. It wouldn't make the file shares overly happy as they'd have to deal with a bunch of fake peers. But it would cause plausible deniability for people accused by the RIAA because there would be known spoofing.
someone could mistakenly think you were recommending poisoning!!!!! and getting away with it through plausible deniability!!!!
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Old 2008-12-08, 02:49 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by john_childs View Post
If those techniques work with BitTorrent then it would really put a monkey wrench in the litigation works if a group organized some poisoning and spoofed a bunch of Comcast (or pick your favorite ISP) address with fake sharing. It wouldn't make the file shares overly happy as they'd have to deal with a bunch of fake peers. But it would cause plausible deniability for people accused by the RIAA because there would be known spoofing.
It's been done with BitTorrent as well, but BT is more robust than e.g. Gnutella or Kazaa, so it tends to just treat the "poison" peers as brain-damaged.
In the early days of BT, there were clients that intentionally misrepresented things like upload statistics, often in order to evade ratio requirements.

As a proof of concept for a legal defense, it should work fine. Unfortunately, at least in the US, judges have shown time and again that they're perfectly willing to ignore technical accuracy in favor of hand-waving from a trusted source.
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Old 2008-12-09, 03:05 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Axi View Post
What do you think?
I read up to the part where the author of the big original post admitted to being a pirate. Then he's part of the problem. There's being a pirate, and wanting to do what you please with stuff you actually own, within reasonable limitations to protect the copyright owners. This does not include sharing it for free with anyone who wants a copy.

Yes, the IP stuff is a little scary. Seems like it would not be sufficient to build a case on in the US, but I would think hot coffee that's really hot wouldn't either...
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Old 2008-12-09, 04:39 AM   #15
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someone could mistakenly think you were recommending poisoning!!!!! and getting away with it through plausible deniability!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
As a proof of concept for a legal defense, it should work fine.
Prolly better not to recommend poisoning, so you won't need a legal defense.

Stay out of trouble, John!

Billy
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