International News (9/11 survivor)

[unifreak7]

YouTube - 9/11 SURVIVOR

-Explosion in the basement before plane hit? What are the odds of something unstable in a building like that. Capable of exploded. Period. Let alone to be seconds before the plane hitting. To believe that is, to me, more of a nut job theory than what I believe.

I didn't know they spent more money on the Clinton sex scandel case, than the case of 9/11

By the way if anyone does convert and start to believe. Please pm me. I will welcome you with open arms, lol. Seriously though. And I will also keep it a secret so you don't have to take this burden of being an outcast. I will not insult you by any means, regardless of anything prior said. I will be here to welcome another person. And hopefully one day enough people, to do something.

[Phil_on_uni]

why Shaun, i never knew you were so political

[ThisGuyIKnow]

Eyewitness testimony is hardly proof of anything. In stressed situations the brain often doesn't remember things correctly or in order. There is proof of this in other events where there is no suspicion to the facts of what actually happened.

[JJtheunicycle]

Lol. 9/11!!! wakka wakka

[dudewithasock]

I sense a pattern in Shaun's threads.

[maestro8]

I've posted this in another of Shaun's thread, but he seems to run away from facts that complicate his theories...

To illustrate ThisGuy's post, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_stress_reaction

and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_stress_reaction

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

Originally Posted by JJtheunicycle

Lol. 9/11!!! wakka wakka

siggable

but I do have a soul so I won't

[unifreak7]

Let me bring up a few points to this whole stressed situation, mental capacity point. Let's think here... Follow me guys I dont' want to repeat this.

This is why he didn't slip in the order of events.
One - He obviously was cooled headed for it, since he had the right of mind to go back in several times and save people. Knew where all the doors where to unlock them and had other people around to create reference memories.

Two - All that time spent under that truck, he had a lot of time to think about the events that lead up to this.

Three - Right after he would have started to tell people what happened always keeping it fresh in his mind to this day.

Four - Why did Bush drop him instantly when he started asking questions?

Five - Why would anything go off in the basement PERIOD if the plane hit about 1000 ft above.

Six - Fire shooting down the elevator shafts? How did this survivor pull people from elevators then? Wouldn't they already have been burned to death?

(No, no just certain elevator shafts had fire shoot down.) - Right cause the really helps your theory of why the building came down so nicely. Wouldn't the fire need to be basically symetrical? Impacting all the core elevators at roughly the same time? Remember guys, to debunk this story, your info can't cross. This is an area where it crosses.

How does it cross? If the fire impacting all the elevator shafts at the same time the ammount of energy would into each shaft would be equal and therefore should have the same outcome of fire shooting down them.

Here's a better debunking of the BS fire shooting down the air tight elevator shafts. Fire travals upwards. There was about 20 stories above the point of impact and 80 stories below. if the fire had that much power to knock out a bunch of stuff on the floor (going against it's logical path of travel) why didn't it have any force at all on the roof (logical path of travel)? Less distance, less resistance. um...

How can you guys not see it yet?

Guy, if you don't want to use eyewitness accounts, you are digging a bigger whole for yourself.

One last thing cause this is too easy... Your situations of shell shock deal with terror or fear, or being tired (that last point of course doesn't apply here.) Not confusion. Usually in confusing situations a person's mind will be acting more quickly to try to understand the surroundings. He sounded initial more confused. Another point to add to why he is credible.

[ThisGuyIKnow]

Shaun,

Your analysis of why he would have remembered clearly how things happened shows exactly that you don't understand the situation of how memory works in these sorts of situations.

1- A person may be cool headed at the time has nothing to do with his accurate memory of the events. A person functions almost in auto pilot under the sorts of conditions he's talking about.

2- Thinking about events under the truck would only cement the memory that he's created not the actual events that transpired.

3- Retelling what happened over and over actually makes his story less accurate not more accurate because you remember more the retelling than the actual events it's like playing telephone with yourself. Each time little things change and you remember the changes not the original.

4- On whose account is that "Bush dropped him instantly when he started asking questions?"

A guy who takes a sick day, because it's a nice day and he doesn't want to work, shows a certain level of dishonesty.

5- A forceful impact on a building would have all sorts of effects throughout the building. Anything under pressure within the building could go off from a forceful impact.

6- Your analysis of elevators, fire and physics shows that you do not understand elevators, fires, or physics. Fire doesn't always travel upwards or downwards. It travels toward oxygen or fuel sources. There is also nothing to say that the elevator shafts were airtight especially after a forceful impact to the building. All of your physics "proofs" and "disproofs" are based on assumptions not facts.

The more you talk about all this the less and less I see that you understand about physics and how things work in real world situations.

In that last bit do you mean to tell me that the guy is more credible because he was confused? If that's the point you are trying to make that's just laughable.

[Mikefule]

No one's mentioned the really spooky thing: close up photos show the guy flying the plane was Glenn Miller.

[wickedbob]

Give him some credit people, he properly searched YouTube and everything.

[SkierAlex]

Just out of curiousity, what are you studying at college and does it have anything to do with physics?

And why don't you put all these videos in the same thread, and just start a 9/11 debate thread?

[johnfoss]

Jeepers. I'm 40 seconds into your latest video and it's already inaccurate. The guy says all the search dogs died. Does that mean of old age? There was just one our local paper here. A (Sacramento FD) dog that searched the WTC and also after Hurricane Katrina recently passed away from complications of being 13 years old. There was no mention of foul play, or industrial illness.

Are you checking the facts in these things? No. Do you assume everything in these videos is true and accurate? It looks like it. Your credibility continues to suffer. You don't have to be an outcast. You can try to be objective. An objective person would say they have questions about the events of 9/11. Nothing wrong with that. Then they would say what the questions where. Nothing wrong with that. They they would say why they had these questions, which would presumably include logical reasons to have those questions. Nothing wrong with that, but that's where your approach keeps breaking down.

Originally Posted by unifreak7

Five - Why would anything go off in the basement PERIOD if the plane hit about 1000 ft above.

Gravity.

Six - Fire shooting down the elevator shafts? How did this survivor pull people from elevators then? Wouldn't they already have been burned to death? (No, no just certain elevator shafts had fire shoot down.) - Right cause the really helps your theory of why the building came down so nicely. Wouldn't the fire need to be basically symetrical?

One thing at a time. Dump 10,000 gallons of jet fuel into a building and then light it. I promise you, burning fuel will follow the law of gravity along with everything else I meant in my one-word statement above. If it makes it to the bottom, whatever's down there can start burning too.

There are multiple elevator shafts and multiple elevators. Not all ground-floor elevators go all the way up, and not all shafts from the crash sites go all the way down without obstruction. Plenty of room for fire and elevators to co-exist.

The buildings were not symmetrical, and yet they fell pretty evenly. Look at a floor plan. The floor plans are real, and the video of the falling towers is real. Maybe the thousands of purported demolition charges were carefully placed to take into account everything that would have caused the collapse to go crooked. Or then again, maybe the building just had a strong steel "skin" on the outside that helped things fall in a straight line.

Really though, I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the fire needing to be symmetrical. The floors where the planes crashed were a mess, and there was nothing symmetrical about them at all. Those are the parts that collapsed. Compared to those areas, the rest of the towers below the crash areas were pretty symmetrical anyway.

How does it cross? If the fire impacting all the elevator shafts at the same time the ammount of energy would into each shaft would be equal and therefore should have the same outcome of fire shooting down them.

Huh? Was fire supposed to have shot down all elevator shafts evenly? Or are you still talking about the forces necessary to collapse the floors in the crash areas?

Fire travals upwards.

No, heat travels upwards. Fire travels in the direction of fuel, oxygen and gravity. With nothing in the way, it will go up a hill rather than down. In a building, as any firefigher will tell you (and you must have some in your town), it can go in all sorts of strange directions. Ask.

There was about 20 stories above the point of impact and 80 stories below. if the fire had that much power to knock out a bunch of stuff on the floor (going against it's logical path of travel) why didn't it have any force at all on the roof (logical path of travel)?

Was there someone up there to offer us a record of how much fire there was on the upper floors? My assumption is quite a lot. Yours?

[johnfoss]

I watched the video. William Rodriguez is obviously a hero of 9/11, and most of what he says in the video sounds entirely believeable. Except the part about the dogs, which casts doubt on the 160 rescue workers that he claims have also died. We know the rescuers inhaled tons of dust, and it may have had all sorts of nasties in it, including asbestos.

But he got lots of people out, and miraculously survived himself, under the fire truck. He says he is not a conspiracy theorist, but he makes his living (according to the video) doing lectures. Therefore he has a financial stake in keeping his story interesting. Apparently the conspiracy approach does not work for him. And it probably shouldn't, as he was actually there and doesn't need to theorize. He can just tell his story and let people take it from there.

He says he lost 200 friends that day, and none of them got out. But most of the victims in the towers were on the floors at and above the crash areas. Shouldn't his co-workers have been spread all around the buildings? Or maybe he refers to a much larger group of friends/co-workers, of whom 200 didn't survive. That could work if he's talking about the whole maintenance/janitorial/services staff.

He keeps mentioning how 3000 people died in the WTC attacks, but official numbers range from 2800 down to 2,752 or so and were never 3000.

Explosion, in Rodriguez's words:
"Was that a bomb? I have no idea what it was." He describes 7 seconds between that event and the plane hitting the tower, but how did they detect the plane hitting the tower? What would that feel like on B1? My theory is that they experienced a shockwave from the crash. The impact of the plane and the subsequent explosions up there created a shockwave that went down whatever open spaces ran the length of the tower. The longest of these open spaces probably went to the lowest basement levels (way lower than B1) and spread out from there. That could very well feel (and sound) like an explosion at the B1 level.

I'm sure people have mentioned this to him, but what would that do to his lecture career? So he keeps it vague, just like every TV show I ever saw about Bigfoot or UFOs. If you think of this "truth" movement as something like Bigfoot or UFOs it's easier to draw comparisons between it and those methods of "keeping the story alive."

Any subsequent noises, vibrations or explosive events after that would be more of the shocks to the building. How could they know exactly when the plane hit if they're in a basement level, 80 or so floors below?