Round Crown Aluminum Frame

[Seager]

Why do people suddenly like round crown frames again? I must have missed that memo.

[joemarshall]

Originally Posted by Smilymarco

I wouldn't pay more than for a KH frame...

I'd be wary of buying a custom built in the USA frame that cost less than the KH. Bearing in mind that pretty much every other custom built frame has cost more like $500, it'd suggest some shortcuts being taken in the process somewhere. Unless it's being built just for fun and the guy isn't charging for his time.

I mean the guy above who priced up the material has costed it at $90 in materials + machining alone, although there are some pretty random numbers in there - like $20 for machining a set of bearing holders sounds pretty cheap - given a mass produced commercial pair will cost you $40, I'd bet the real cost would be easily twice that. If he's doing it well he has to factor in the cost of a few prototypes as he's never built a unicycle before, the cost of his time building them, the cost of guaranteeing them, and a profit.

Joe

[Jeremy R]

Originally Posted by joemarshall

I'd be wary of buying a custom built in the USA frame that cost less than the KH. Bearing in mind that pretty much every other custom built frame has cost more like $500, it'd suggest some shortcuts being taken in the process somewhere. Unless it's being built just for fun and the guy isn't charging for his time.

I mean the guy above who priced up the material has costed it at $90 in materials + machining alone, although there are some pretty random numbers in there - like $20 for machining a set of bearing holders sounds pretty cheap - given a mass produced commercial pair will cost you $40, I'd bet the real cost would be easily twice that. If he's doing it well he has to factor in the cost of a few prototypes as he's never built a unicycle before, the cost of his time building them, the cost of guaranteeing them, and a profit.

Joe

What?

http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=1182

I tried to throw in a few extra costs, if you noticed. A roundcrown frame needs about 3 welds, so not alot.

[joemarshall]

Originally Posted by Jeremy R

What?

http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=1182

I tried to throw in a few extra costs, if you noticed. A roundcrown frame needs about 3 welds, so not alot.

That's the cost for half a bearing holder, and mass produced in Taiwan out of steel, which you obviously can't use for the top bit of a bearing holder on an aluminium frame. So $24 to get a mass produced one from Taiwan out of a cheaper material. If you buy the ones mass produced in Taiwan out of aluminium, the cost is $40 a set (KH ones). You'd usually expect a custom build to be more expensive than the cost of buying them.

Joe

[Probailer2]

Originally Posted by Jeremy R

What?

http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=1182

I tried to throw in a few extra costs, if you noticed. A roundcrown frame needs about 3 welds, so not alot.

Those are CrMO and not alluminum, I don't think those 2 will weld together

[Nurse Ben]

How much market is there for a frame only?

Granted, I'm looking to upgrade my 24" Nimbus II, but that's only because it's the old one which is too narrow for a 3" tire; I also want brake mounts.

The new Nimbus muni frame is ~$45, KH is $200, so if you build a round alumium model that is equivallent to KH, I'd go $100.

The weight difference in a 24" frame, between a KH and Nimbus, is around 6 ounces. You could save that by changing tires, a lighter tube, lighter cranks/pedals, etc...

If you want to sell a frame, use titanium, it's what people want and no one has one for sale!

[Jeremy R]

Originally Posted by joemarshall

That's the cost for half a bearing holder, and mass produced in Taiwan out of steel, which you obviously can't use for the top bit of a bearing holder on an aluminium frame. So $24 to get a mass produced one from Taiwan out of a cheaper material. If you buy the ones mass produced in Taiwan out of aluminium, the cost is $40 a set (KH ones). You'd usually expect a custom build to be more expensive than the cost of buying them.

Joe

I realize that, but KH markup is RIDICULOUS. Bike Island sold KH's for 200 less. Im sure it can't be that expensive to make a bearing holder.

Originally Posted by Probailer2

Those are CrMO and not alluminum, I don't think those 2 will weld together

Good Catch

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

How much market is there for a frame only?

Granted, I'm looking to upgrade my 24" Nimbus II, but that's only because it's the old one which is too narrow for a 3" tire; I also want brake mounts.

The new Nimbus muni frame is ~$45, KH is $200, so if you build a round alumium model that is equivallent to KH, I'd go $100.

The weight difference in a 24" frame, between a KH and Nimbus, is around 6 ounces. You could save that by changing tires, a lighter tube, lighter cranks/pedals, etc...

If you want to sell a frame, use titanium, it's what people want and no one has one for sale!

I agree. I actually wouldnt mind a steel roundie. I just want a roundie, forks bash my knees past oblivion.

[maestro8]

Originally Posted by Jeremy R

I tried to throw in a few extra costs, if you noticed. A roundcrown frame needs about 3 welds, so not alot.

As Mr. Marshall is pointing out, you're overlooking many indirect costs associated with production, especially small batch production as the OP is suggesting.

Before a small batch producer can even begin to think about profit, they have to cover the time and materials spent in research and development, and they have to cover it in many fewer sales. Whether your produce 10 frames or 1,000, you're going to have to do a lot of the same R&D.

Also consider that he has tooling and setup costs to recover as well. It doesn't matter how few or how many welds are made, a welding jig needs to be made if more than a few pieces are produced. Same goes for any machine processes; he'll need to make a jig for the bearing holders. These things take time to figure out, time to implement, and time to use.

While it may only take a few minutes to do the welds or cut the holders, it still takes time to set up the tools, time to break them down, and time to clean up shop afterwards.

A lot of these times are constant, regardless of the number of units being produced. This means that the cost per unit can only be reduced by producing more frames... and in this case that doesn't seem to be an option. They're just going to have to charge more per frame.

[kington99]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

How much market is there for a frame only?

i would say insufficient for it to be commercially viable. Why? Because none of the big manafactureres are doing one, despite their low-cost manafacturing facilities, wide distribution and bulk discounts.

[hobo_chuck]

I'd still rather have a Ti Nimbus frame...

[saskatchewanian]

If it is not too much of a stretch I also wouldn't mind a 36er frame same as the 26" frame I mentioned earlier but with longer legs.

I would obviously pay more for the larger frame.

[polevaultinunicyclist]

thats silly. i would never pay more than 100 for one. 80 if your luckey

[unibikeling]

Originally Posted by polevaultinunicyclist

thats silly. i would never pay more than 100 for one. 80 if your luckey

*Cough Cough* aparently someone doesnt understand the amount of labor and machining that goes into something like this. Plus how much time needs to be spent on welding aluminum. 250 is probably a reasonable price in my opinion, thats expect that it will be strong (but your friend makes bike trial frames, so its gonna be strong).

[kington99]

Originally Posted by unibikeling

*Cough Cough* aparently someone doesnt understand the amount of labor and machining that goes into something like this.

In a way that's irrelevant. The amount someone will pay for something is what it's worth to them as a product, regardless of how much it cost to build. As an example, I would only pay a couple of hundred quid for a Ti nimbus. I don't care if it cost £1k to build, it's just not worth that to me. Now if you're arguing about what is a fair price that's a different matter, but perceived value is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

[unibikeling]

Originally Posted by kington99

In a way that's irrelevant. The amount someone will pay for something is what it's worth to them as a product, regardless of how much it cost to build. As an example, I would only pay a couple of hundred quid for a Ti nimbus. I don't care if it cost £1k to build, it's just not worth that to me. Now if you're arguing about what is a fair price that's a different matter, but perceived value is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

actually, sorry. I just thought of that. I mean, to me, the frame would easily be worth 250, feeling that i'd cover the persons labor fairly, and have a nice frame. But i guess, to a person whos happy with their setup, and doesnt really think much of machining or something, would obviously think of a lesser price.