Honda fit or toyota prius?

[MuniAddict]

Originally Posted by mscalisi

The 1.5 liter is almost certainly lighter than the 2.4+ liter engines in comparable mid-sized sedan. Combined with the electric motors, it performs more similarly to a car with a large4/small6 cylinder engine than an econobox with a 1.5.

It's not correct to compare the Prius to subcompact cars.

Haha, yeah the subcompact cars don't need any more humiliation.

[kington99]

Originally Posted by mscalisi

The 1.5 liter is almost certainly lighter than the 2.4+ liter engines in comparable mid-sized sedan. Combined with the electric motors, it performs more similarly to a car with a large4/small6 cylinder engine than an econobox with a 1.5.

It's not correct to compare the Prius to subcompact cars.

this is evidently a cultural difference, a car of that size in this country would be more likely to have an engine around 1.4 to 1.6 litres. Anything over 2 litre in a car that size would be more of a sports car.

[mscalisi]

Great! Um...where can I get one?

Diesel cars tend to be more efficient. Unfortunately, there are no new Diesel cars available for sale in California (that I know of).

The truth remains, the Prius is the most efficient mass-produced car you can drive off the lot in the US, and especially in CA. This is undisputable.

It's also likely the most efficient car it's size and power in the world.

Also, if you took the cars you're mentioning here, and scaled Toyotas hybrid technology down to size, and applied it to Diesel engines, you'd certainly have cars that are even more efficient.

Originally Posted by swarbrim

Has anyone mentioned the Seat Ibiza Ecomotive or the VW Polo Bluemotion?

VW Polo Bluemotion - "Modifications to engine, bodywork and transmission mean 70mpg is possible, while a CO2 figure of 102g/km beats even a Toyota Prius.."

Seat Ibiza Ecomotive - Averages 74.3mpg over urban and extra-urban driving and if driven super sensibly can reach 88.3mpg on the motorway. And the CO2 emissions are even less in this than the Polo Bluemotion.

And in addition to this brilliant cars, they harm the environment less than the Toymota Prius due to them not having two engines.

Something to surely be considered?



[EDIT]
55mpg is not that great Terry, my dads 1.9 Turbo Diesel (same engine that's in pretty much every diesel Skoda, VW, Audi etc) will reach that easy, and I bet it's a lot more fun to drive...

[ThisGuyIKnow]

With current infrastructure the ideal car would be a diesel hybrid and you'd have a source of biodiesel nearby. Petroleum prices will only go up, but as biodeisel production levels and technologies increase it's price will do down. Also I've been told that diesel engines get slightly better MPG with biodiesel than petrodiesel.

I think you can get a diesel hybrid in Sweden.

[critter]

Originally Posted by agentQ

I have always thought that the Honda Civic Hatch was the best car every made. Now it comes in 4 door version called the Fit. I would go with the a Fit for sure.

Gas aside, I really like the roomy back. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I find the back seats fold away nicely. Roomy! Four adults can play cards.

I can't quite close the hatch when I'm fully stretched out(5'11")
my 29er has too much room. Over a foot of clearance
If you don't want to put the seats down you can put the seats up with one little click.

The Prius slopes down in the back of the car which cuts on head clearance for adults when sitting in the back seats. The Fit maybe be a smaller car, but head clearance for people in the back is bigger.

[MuniAddict]

Here's another big plus to the prius and other hybrids. Depending on your driving style, the hybrid battery system is in use during driving when the engine is not needed. When your stopped, slowing down, when accelerating slowly, and when at cruising speed it can alternate between engine and battery.

This means that if you put on 100,000 miles in say, 10 years, this mileage could be literally close to being "split" between the engine & the battery pack. So, in essence, both the hybrid battery and the engine would actaully only have 50,000 miles each!

This could very well explain why these cars last so long, like the guy who uses a prius as a taxi and has over 200,000 miles so far with no problems! Everything still original with no major work or repairs.

[Hazmat]

Apparently the 2009 model of the Jazz (Fit) will be alot better and very clever then the outgoing model.

[evil-nick]

Originally Posted by MuniAddict

This means that if you put on 100,000 miles in say, 10 years, this mileage could be literally close to being "split" between the engine & the battery pack. So, in essence, both the hybrid battery and the engine would actaully only have 50,000 miles each!

Perhaps for hybrids they should do a split system, using overall mileage and hours of use. Mileage isn't always a fair indicator. Case in point, my '92 Accord had 260,800 (and change) miles on it when I traded it in in '02 for my '99 Civic. The clutch was original, and (believe it or not), the shocks were original too! The secret to its longevity? A) Get on highway. B) Set cruise control to desired speed. C) Drive 2 hours before stopping for food/bathroom/gas/customs agents etc. Sure, the car had a ton of mileage on it, but the vast majority was put on with the RPM at about 2500 for several hours. If I had bought an Insight when I got my Civic, the gas differential would have paid for it in 3 years I think it was... and that was with gas at under $2/gal (Don't quote me on this, it was a hasty calculation performed at the dinner table many years ago)

Semi-related... Different areas have different ideas of what is low mileage. Someone said something in an earlier post (Terry?) about getting 150K miles out of a car... That's too low for me! I grew up in rural NH, so driving was a necessity, and I find a car with 150K miles on it to not be that bad. (My Civic has 170+K on it). For me, it's the body of the car that's likely to go before the engine (damn salt on the roads...)

BTW, anyone see that Toyota is putting solar panels on the Japanese Prius next year to help power the AC?

[Hazmat]

WOW!!! They just name the Jazz GLi (The entry level model) as the most stolen Honda in Australia.

[critter]

On this rock in which I live, I see Prius' everywhere.

American and European cars have always been less popular here.

[Hazmat]

Originally Posted by critter

On this rock in which I live, I see Prius' everywhere.

American and European cars have always been less popular here.

Well here in Australia, it's mostly the Japanese cars that are winning. So i guess that includes the Jazz (Fit) and Prius.

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by MuniAddict

And your point? As the driver of a prius, the battery pack(s) might as well be invisible since in no way does [it] take up any cargo or passenger space.

His point was that it weighs the same whether you think about it or not. Dragging all that battery weight up to speed costs in energy, and is part of the overall "energy cost" of the vehicle. The car essentially has one transmission and two engines (not sure how many actual electric motors are in play but you know what I mean). Not the most efficient system overall, but currently it's clearly a successful solution until electric or other technologies get better.

I don't see Prius owners thinking they're saving the Earth. I see them saving money on gas! If they're smug about that, most of peoples' reactions is probably annoyance that they don't have one.

Originally Posted by ThisGuyIKnow

Also I've been told that diesel engines get slightly better MPG with biodiesel than petrodiesel.

Everything I've read says that biodiesel delivers less power than petrodiesel; it doesn't burn as efficiently or whatever, which leads to more fuel required to go an equal distance. This should translate to lower MPG.

Originally Posted by swarbrim

Oh, and "There will always be those that claim 89mpg on their 30 year old vw rabbit or something, but that's a fairy tale." I have no idea what the f*** you mean by this. Are you referring to me talking about a Polo Bluemotion (that's more economical than your car)?

Answering for me, not Terry, but basically yes.

Let me explain. There's a difference between EPA or other standards-based fuel economy figures and stuff claimed by individual drivers with individual cars. There's even a difference between EPA numbers and EPA numbers. I believe they are or have been switching over to a new system that gives more real-world (lower) numbers. But these numbers are achieved in a method that's identical for all the cars they test, and represent a variety of driving conditions to simulate real-world driving. Hence you can compare one car to another.

That same car can be modified to run hotter (leaner), using less gas at the cost of increased engine wear. It can also be lightened by removing "unnecessary" weight such as the back seats, pollution control hardware, etc. Then that same car can be driven downhill with the engine off for several miles, and otherwise in a highway-only situation with no stopping and starting, for mileage figures ranging from much higher to way, way higher.

But it is extremely unlikely that the mileage figures being achieved by individual owners and customizers are using a system anything close to the combination of driving scenarios in an EPA test, for instance.

That said, those little cars swarbrim pointed out in his post look cool. I especially like the one in the picture. It looks very light, and quite a bit smaller than the Prius. Unfortunately none of them is available over here. The Prius must have a lot more competition in the area of pure fuel economy
in countries where fuel is more expensive than here (and/or where smaller cars are available).

Terry would also point out that his Prius probably carries the extra weight of a few features those smaller cars don't have, such as airbags and possibly a stronger frame to protect the occupants, and various higher-end amenities.

[MuniAddict]

I'll point out again, that a prius hybrid with, say 100k on the odometer, actually has only 50k on the battery and 50k on the engine! That's a rough estimate but my point is that with the hybrid system the total miles are "split" between the engine and the battery system, resulting in a car that seemingly runs forever!

Toyota has put the synergy battery system to the test and gave up after 167,000 miles, because not only did it continue to run without probelms, but wihthout any appreciable degradation of power! It still ran like brand new! As for the "extra weight" of the hybrid battery, it's fine with me I can't complain getting 50mpg! And yeah, for me, it's all about the mpg.

[critter]

Originally Posted by MuniAddict

Wow you must drive like 60k miles per year to save that much! My yearly gas cost based on $4 per gallon is roughly $2,500.

Now with gas a buck cheaper, don't you wish you got a Fit?

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by critter

Now with gas a buck cheaper, don't you wish you got a Fit?

My goodness it *is* a buck cheaper now! How nice. You seem to think it's going to stay that way?

Toyotas and Hondas are both great cars, you could do far worse in a choice of brand in terms of reliability and resale value. I love my Toyota, though it's not as fuel-efficient as I wish...