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Old 2008-04-19, 08:47 AM   #16
kington99
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of course we're forgetting the solemn and noble English worship of the St. George flag, whenever the football's on.
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Old 2008-04-19, 10:17 AM   #17
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after years and years of witnessing flag-burnings for every cause you can dream of. I am surprised some businessman didn't came with the idea of providing flags for that very purpose!
"our flags burn longer!"
"may not harm our customer"!
"burns without danger to the environment" ....

you could even have a "patriot" american businessman providing "false" true flags : the american flag is so complex that you can counterfeit it with a non standard number of stripes or stars!!! -and "customers" would not notice!-

Oops: I forgot to mention the already existing business of having toilet paper emblasoned with a flag!
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Old 2008-04-19, 01:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-wheeled-grape
oh my god that is pathetic! its a piece of cloth, not america itself, and you all walk on america evryday(because you cannot fly lol). it would of been a hell of a laugh to run down the hall, jump on the flag and skid down the hall, just to see what people do i would do that with the british flag, they slide well id ride on it too, i dont care, it isnt like in sending a missile to downing street or the houses of parlament is it!

if you did the same thing here people would ignore it and just keep walking over them, why is america so worried about standing on a piece of cloth?
Just to see what people do? Just to see what people do? Man, here if you did that you would get a redneck fist in your face faster than you can say "i pledge allegiance, to the flag", and that's if your lucky. And if you sued them, you would probably loes. Man, people can be so dunce sometimes!
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Old 2008-04-19, 01:27 PM   #19
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Oops: I forgot to mention the already existing business of having toilet paper emblasoned with a flag!
haha, that's crazy cool!

I think people get a little too upset about flag stepping-onage and burnage. I can see where a vetran might take it the wrong way but in my opinion, a burning flag, is a symbol of America not living up to the ideals that it pretends to support.

Land of the rich straight white christian men?
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Old 2008-04-19, 01:30 PM   #20
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Well i found this one on Google.
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Old 2008-04-19, 01:48 PM   #21
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Do whatever you want with that red, white, and blue flag, but don't mess with the original flag of America.
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Old 2008-04-19, 02:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kington99
of course we're forgetting the solemn and noble English worship of the St. George flag, whenever the football's on.
What, attaching them to car windows were they get shredded to peices by the wind/ fall off?
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Old 2008-04-19, 02:12 PM   #23
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It doesn't really matter what you or I personally think about flag desecration. It's protected under free speech.

These guys say it infinitely better than I could
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Old 2008-04-19, 02:20 PM   #24
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Old 2008-04-19, 02:39 PM   #25
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I think its pretty funny, but its not like she forced people to walk over them. There was a path to get through, so I think its fine. Plus whoever steps on them, its their fault.
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Old 2008-04-19, 03:03 PM   #26
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Like anything, it's a matter of perspective. Forgive me for rambling, but when I went through Basic Training, we were put through hell by a bunch of DS's that were mostly Vietnam Vet Army Rangers. This was back when trainees could still be beaten on here and there and several were sent to the hospital. Anyhoo, we had the general impression that they hated us and thought we were crap, but most of us survived. There was a really bad training accident that I don't want to talk about.

When we finished, before graduation, they sat us down in an auditorium and we we watched a film that went over all the death and destruction that soldiers faced on the battle fields throughout our history and it ended with a montage of military cemeteries while the Lee Greenwood song, God Bless the USA played. It was a really heavy thing. Following that, all our Drill Sergeants came up to us and shook our hands. telling us how proud they were of us.

My perspective I suppose as well as those who served is that symbols are important, because when you put yourself in harms way and are willing to take orders that may very well cause your death, you stop being an individual and are a part of something bigger: Accomplishing the mission is the only important thing. It's what allows a person to throw his or her body on a grenade to save one's fellow soldier, to charge a bunker, to jump out of an airplane or fast rope into a hot LZ.

The flag may just be a piece of cloth to many, but to others it's a symbol worth dying for. Sure many people are down on the US for being in the Middle East currently, but look back on WW I and WW II, the Revolutionary War, or any other "popular war". Can any of us imagine what it would take to jump off a landing craft on Omaha Beach, or fight in any of the numerus bloody battles in the Pacific? Take a good look at our senior citizens BTW, they walked through fire that many can never comprehend. Running bombing missions over Nazi Germany even though they knew they wouldn't come back. My God, people, get a clue and try to understand the suffering of our Marines, Soldiers, Airmen, and Sailors throughout time.

As far as the guys and women on the ground, you may not realize it, but the individual fights for his or her squad, the squad fights for the platoon, the platoon fights for the battery or company.... on and on up the chain. And when the politicians through theirs troops into a war, sometimes all the troops have to hang on to is an ideal or a symbol because when they or we do something that doesn't make sense, one has to have something to hang onto to make sense out of chaos, and that may be as simple as a flag.

You may not agree with what the politicians do, but at least think about how f#@ked up the people actually doing their bidding get in the process, and how many friends they've lost. I'm not going to make any moral judgments regarding the theory behind the current state of affairs in Iraq, but when people trash the flag, a very powerful symbol to many, you are causing great harm to many vets who put their asses on the line because they (we) thought it was the right thing to do.

Thank you to all our leaders who treat the people on the ground like they are disposable, and thank you to all you citizens who do the same by treating our symbol like it's meaningless. To quote a friend of mine who's a retired Colonial, "There are two Countrys: The Country that people that never served belong to, and the Country WE belong to."
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Old 2008-04-19, 03:18 PM   #27
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Old 2008-04-19, 03:18 PM   #28
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Weather your disagree with excercising your rights like that or not, 'it (freedom of speech) has to be for everyone, or it will be for no one'

Its like nazi's marching in skokie or wherever. I dont like what they stand for, the racism, or anything like that, but they have full right to do what they did. It's like, lets create a symbol that masks the hatred of George W Bush. Thats freedom of speech, a symbol. We could put this symbol everywhere.

Its freedom of speech. Our rights, what the united states stands for, and everything else is in words, ideas, and thoughts. Its not a peice of paper, a flag, or anything else.

People over react these days...

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Old 2008-04-19, 03:20 PM   #29
Mikefule
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Nimbusnut, that was eloquent and written with passion.

My only point of disagreement is the mixing up of the symbol with the thing that it symbolises.

America (or Britain) would claim to stand for democracy, equality, freedom, fairness, freedom of speech, freedom of (and from) religion, and so on. Those are ideals worth making huge sacrifices for.

In the world's eyes, America and Britain also stand for imperialism, cultural elitism, economic explotiation of the third world, disproportionate consumption, and various other bad things.

The US flag flag stands for America; the Union Jack stands for Britain.

So one man spits on the symbol of imperialsim, cultural elitism and economic exploitation of the third world, and the other man is offended because he has seen someone desecrate his symbol of democracy, equality and freedom.

I hope no one fights for a flag. I hope they fight for the good ideals that they believe the flag stands for.
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Old 2008-04-19, 03:24 PM   #30
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A symbol to fight for...
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