Flat Discussion Thread

[Spencer Hochberg]

Originally Posted by beeper

It would be nice to have flatland evolve into longer combos of tricks.

Like when I look at FL BMX. They dont do a small trick then start pedaling, then do another. Its a long combo.

Flat would look cooler if it could be transformed into something of the sort. I have to give props to all the flat riders out there though. One trick alone is mad hard, let alone a whole combo. Just a thought.

Yeah that would be cool but it would be easier on a bike since they coast. They can make one trick go on for a long distance where we are pretty much limited to one rev per single roll trick because of the cranks. Flat combos are getting longer and it looks cool. Flat is still really new and its progressing fast so I think eventually the combos will get much longer.

[Uni-Ouly]

so really all flat unicycles need is another wheel

[Sponge]

I always firmly believe that many people are looking at flatland in the wrong way. To many people flatland is: do anything on flat ground or even off small stairsets... that technically makes me a flatlander in their eyes then... well, anyone is a flatlander then... haha...

Unicycle disciplines are like mirror images of their bike counterparts... I mean look at trials... muni... street... respectively: biketrials, mountain biking, and BMXing.

Flatland in unicycling is derived from flatland BMX. The key to flatland BMX is all about flow. Look at how they ride? They pretty much always keep at least one wheel on the ground rolling and do a truck load of rolling balance tricks. You don't see them doing street BMX tricks like bunnyhop-barspins or bunnyhop-tailwhips in normal circumstances because they are considered street tricks. Thus doing crankflips off curbs and 3 sets are not flatland. It's in the name for pity's sake: FLAT... LAND... therefore all of it is done on a flat plain of land. As shown in the following picture:



Most 'flatland' riders and 'flat' videos are just mini-street. The only riders capable of true flatland that I have see so far are: Spencer Hochberg, Arthur Caron, Loic (to some extent), Xavier (to some extent). There are more out there, but I haven't noticed yet, apologies.

Spencer especially as he sees flatland in the proper light: i.e.: about balance tricks, flow, no hops. Sure, him and Arthur do crankflips and street tricks in their vids as a mess-around, but in the serious flatland parts... they are fully capable of doing impressive balance combo tricks, which many so called 'flatland' riders don't ever do. Flatland vids are quite monotonous sometimes i.e.: unispin, pause, hop hop hop, doubleflip, hop hop hop, 180 crankflip, bail, hop hop... Where's the flow? Where's the balance trick combos?

I know a lot of so called 'flatland' riders will think I'm an 'ignorant trials dick' that knows nothing about flat.. but hey... read what I typed out above and think about it. I'm all for unicycling to evolve into something truly impressive... partly the reason why I took the effort into creating the Triton Sponge titanium frames. I take a genuine interest in seeing things grow and evolve in the right way and I like contributing to it by helping to un-cloud some people's opinions and judgments.

Someone PLEASE prove me wrong about the general 'flatland' scene in unicycling and bang out a proper video taken from the mold of Spencer and Arthur's continuous rolling balance trick combos. Because to me and many many others, it is just mini-street right now. No crankflips or stairsets please. Just balance, rolling, and flow. No hops. BMXers generally laugh at us, especially at flatland... every BMXer or friend of mine that sees 'flatland' unicyclign they say: "what the hell, how is that flatland... it's bunch of sketchy street tricks with no flow". I agree with them 100% to be brutally honest. Let's see flatland move in the right direction... go and watch Spencer's vids on youtube and try and learn his balance combos. I'd be FAR more impressed to see people doing 20 second clips on youtube doing one balance combo consisting of crankrolls, legwraps, tyre-step overs etc.. rather than a 5 minute video of crankflips off 2 sets and curbs.

On a less critical note: Anyone reckon they could do megaspins on unis?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=k15bb3KKOZQ
^My idea of it is: Get in a donkey kick position, but instead of kicking the tyre backwards, do continuous backwards scuffing of the tyre as if you are doing backwards standing 1-foot wheelwalks, but spin in a circle whilst doing it. I chatted about this with Spencer, and sure it is damn hard in theory, it would be sweet if someone pulled it off.

[Spoonthumb]

bump...

i landed a rolling wrap finally. I can do backrolls sometimes.

@spencer/jon how long did it take you guys to get rollingwraps/backrolls consistant?

edit:

@jon-do you ride 125mm moments or 137mm moments?

[mornish]

I learned rolling wraps and backrolls a couple weeks ago, they are great fun.

[Émile5]

Rolling wrap took me one morning to land, and the rest of the day to get them consistantly.

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by Sponge

Unicycle disciplines are like mirror images of their bike counterparts... I mean look at trials... muni... street... respectively: biketrials, mountain biking, and BMXing.

How come my reflection has two wheels?

Flatland in unicycling is derived from flatland BMX. The key to flatland BMX is all about flow. Look at how they ride? They pretty much always keep at least one wheel on the ground rolling and do a truck load of rolling balance tricks.

The problem is, unicycles don't coast well. Though you can stand on a front peg of a Flatland BMX bike and run off trick after trick, we don't have a straight equivalent of that so there's at a minium going to be more pedaling.

Someone PLEASE prove me wrong about the general 'flatland' scene in unicycling...

Don't dispair, Flatland is still very new! New to the point that I don't know of any competitions having been held yet, which kind of leads to the existence of no written rules. People are still hashing out what Flatland is all about, so it's still kind of fluid.

One thing I think is fundamental to a proper Flatland performance would be flat land. No stairs, curbs, etc. Those would point it in the direction of Street. I also like the idea of flow being a component, though I don't think it needs to be a strict rule. In fact I'd recommend the same thing for Street; having at least part of the performance be flowy, while other parts can be more hoppy.

[Hazmat]

Originally Posted by Uni-Ouly

so really all flat unicycles need is another wheel

Yeah that would be about right.

[pedrotejada]

Originally Posted by johnfoss

Don't dispair, Flatland is still very new! New to the point that I don't know of any competitions having been held yet, which kind of leads to the existence of no written rules. People are still hashing out what Flatland is all about, so it's still kind of fluid.

CFM 2007 Buthier had a Flat competition... in a very interesting format... Looked like a Break dance competition... I really liked the videos of the competition...

Some videos of this competition:
Flat Battles by Samiaul
CFM Battles Part 1
CFM Battles Part 2

I don't know if this competition is oficial or no... But it's a flat competition!

bye!

[Émile5]

Originally Posted by Hazmat

Yeah that would be about right.

That is two wheels being added by the way...

[Jon Atwell]

Originally Posted by Spoonthumb

bump...

i landed a rolling wrap finally. I can do backrolls sometimes.

@spencer/jon how long did it take you guys to get rollingwraps/backrolls consistant?

edit:

@jon-do you ride 125mm moments or 137mm moments?

i ride 137s and am liking them alot

i dont really know how long it took to get them consistant. I can do them almost everytime though. the best way to get them consistant is just to do them a bunch every session. yeeeah thats kinda useless info though cause im guessing you could have thought of that...

Backrolls are pretty easy after like 2 days. im trying to get 2 and 3 backrolls in a row without hops consistant

i landed bigflips today yay



-jon A

[leo]

Originally Posted by Sponge

Watching the sponsors that was token at either "Flatground" or the "BMX masters" in Koln; I've been to both.
And as that British ex-BMX'er from Pensilvania (who's voice-over at Eurosport and ESPN) isn't doing the mic there, and as the building is high, I'm sure it must me Amsterdam.

Originally Posted by Sponge

bang out a proper video taken from the mold of Spencer and Arthur's continuous rolling balance trick combos.

What do you think about Lutz' "uncut"?

Originally Posted by Sponge

On a less critical note: Anyone reckon they could do megaspins on unis?

Last trick I spend time on to learn was "stand-ww bw sif in C", the C's are getting smaller, but certainly no spinning yet, and no rolling either.

[beeper]

I honestly dont see why crankflips can't be accepted into flat. I mean, if you were to crankflip, to sideways wheelwalk, to crankroll, I dont see why the crankflip is looked down upon in that combo. It makes it that more interesting. Sure, the trick itself is a street trick, but it can be varied into so many combos in flat. I mean, Flatland itself shouldnt' be core flat all the time. Its really the rider's preference weather he/she is to crankflip, or crankroll, or do both for that matter in the same combo. As long as it flows, and the combo involves flat tricks, without straight up riding between tricks, it should be accepted as core flat. I mean, the unispin is used in street. Doesn't mean that it isnt' core street. The point im trying to make is that if you are to make a combo with flat tricks, it shouldnt' matter what trick you do, as long as it flows.

Example: Rolling Wrap to Backroll, To sideways wheelwalk, to monkey kick.
That should be considered pure flat.
As long as you dont ride the uni regularly between the Sideways wheelwalk, and the monkey kick, is it not still a flat combo?

[Jon Atwell]

Originally Posted by beeper

alot about flips in flat

I think flips in flat if used right are really sick. for example in flatland i love combos like sideways wheel walk to wheel flip out and rolling wrap to hickflip and flips into rolls are sick.

People are saying that in flatland bmx they never leave the ground...ive seen them jump all over the place. maybe if ur looking at flatland as only rolls but i think that limits the sport waaay to much. its hard to define a style of riding thats so new and i think even when flat is established later you wont be able to just say this is what flatland is...its like trying to define street. People will always have different opions on what a style is supposed to be like so you can waste time discussing what flatland is i guess but i wont

-jon A

[Spoonthumb]

Originally Posted by Jon Atwell

I think flips in flat if used right are really sick. for example in flatland i love combos like sideways wheel walk to wheel flip out and rolling wrap to hickflip and flips into rolls are sick.

People are saying that in flatland bmx they never leave the ground...ive seen them jump all over the place. maybe if ur looking at flatland as only rolls but i think that limits the sport waaay to much. its hard to define a style of riding thats so new and i think even when flat is established later you wont be able to just say this is what flatland is...its like trying to define street. People will always have different opions on what a style is supposed to be like so you can waste time discussing what flatland is i guess but i wont

-jon A

+1 I think flat out of all unicycling has the most room to grow. I think that different variations of flat will emerge.