KH from AEBike

[danger_uni]

Originally Posted by mornish

the guy at my lbs who sells kh products. He was talking to KH and UDC and yeah, they are working on ending that because it is making it impossible for independent dealers to afford to sell their products.

This is true. Since I design and manufacture but don't distribute, I have really left it up to importers to set prices on KH product. Actually, no one can legally set prices for another dealer, but it is possible for the distributor to control the advertised price.

The prices from AEbikes have been an amazing deal. But there are very real costs associated with the work involved in bringing any product to market after it is imported into a country- the cost of shipping, the cost/square footage to display the product, and paying your workers a decent wage to name a few. The price that AEbikes is selling KH unis at is great while it lasts. But it cannot possibly cover the cost of all of the above- if that was all they sold, they'd go out of business in a real hurry, even if they sold a lot of them.

At the AEBike price, no other dealer would bother carrying KH product- it would not be worth it. So for me it is a bad thing, even if they sell quite a few KH unis at that price, because it's not sustainable and prevents other dealers from selling my unis. For the sport, it's great in the short term to have cheap access to the stuff. But in the longer term, perhaps not.

Comments?

Kris

[muzzle]

It's awesome to see your comment here Kris. I would agree with the points you have raised. Interestingly, we have an online bike "shop" local to us which seems to be able to undercut other retailers prices for bike gear, skate shoes, snowboard gear and various other things.

They tend to run very cheap specials at way below retail and it seems successful so far, I do wonder how long they could keep the buisness going on such pricing models but only time will tell.

[unicycledood]

Perhaps they are selling enough of their other products that they can afford to bring in pricier items to attract diffrent kinds of customers to look at their other products. If this did get out of hand couldn't you just stop selling AEBikes your unicycles.

[SARIN]

It is quite nice to see reply from the creator of these fantastic unis. Thanks for the input.

However I do have to agree with "Unicycledood" as well here. Many business' run that way. If they can live and breathe off of the rest of thier business why not pitch deals on certain things. Maybe that location has some severe uni entusiasts that want to pump the sport.

I am in the tattoo industry and I am guilty of the same...granted it is a service business and all I really lose is my own time and no one elses equipment. I try to get all the money I can from all the small "bill payin" tattoos, that way I can afford to give the "big project" customers the awesome deals to allow them to afford such extravagant projects...otherwise hardly anyone could afford to be getting massive tattoo work.

[pkittle]

Originally Posted by danger_uni

At the AEBike price, no other dealer would bother carrying KH product- it would not be worth it. So for me it is a bad thing, even if they sell quite a few KH unis at that price, because it's not sustainable and prevents other dealers from selling my unis. For the sport, it's great in the short term to have cheap access to the stuff. But in the longer term, perhaps not.

Comments?

Kris

I bought my KH29 from AEBike only because of the price ($450 shipped). I wouldn't have bought it at the MSRP of $600 ($650 with taxes at my LBS), not because that price is unreasonable (it isn't), nor because I couldn't afford it at that price (I could). It's simply that my threshold for deciding to spend on a 29er, which I didn't know if I'd enjoy all that much or would serve my needs completely. I would have probably bought a Torker AX 29er instead, and if I got the bug enough, might have eventually splurged on the KH29. I simply wasn't willing to pay about 3 times the price of a Torker, but was okay with paying double.

I seriously debated, though, about whether to get it from AEBike or not, just because of the sustainability issue. Were it a difference of, say, $50 or so between the online and the price my LBS (which sells KH) offered, I'd go local for sure. But $200? Too good an offer to pass up.

After seeing lots of cool shops in my town go out of business (including a kick-ass skate shop that had a big half-pipe in the back!), I'm pretty sensitive to the needs of brick-and-mortar places. So even though I contributed to the AEBike issue through my purchase, I'm still a little conflicted by it, overall. That said, AEBike has terrific service, and the fact that they are a local shop as well as an internet seller makes me feel a little better. The people who work there, too, seem very nice and they do a good job with customer service.

[agentQ]

Kris,
I agree that one retailer selling at that price makes it harder for any others to compete, and will turn them away from buying supply.
Tho Im sure AEBike is not making a bad business decision. They would most lily know better than that, wouldnt they? They get in some unis and sell them all very very quickly. There is not a whole lot of man hours that go into selling these. The most is prolly spent answering emails to folks asking about whats in stock.

Personaly I loved the prices, I bought a 29er and love it. I own a Koxx street and well its getting a work out. If AE gets some more 20s in stock I will be buying one, not cause i need it right now, but I will need some parts now and then, and well a that price each part is very affordable. for 500 I may never buy a KH, not because the price is unreasonable,. but because overall I am happy with my Koxx. I will buy KH parts when i need a new seat and things like that.

If there is serious problem with that price hurting our industry cant we find a happy medium? like the 20" for 430 or even 450 seems fairor 470 would get people a new uni to their door for under 5.
I dont understand why there cant be a set price tho? Burton doesnt retail their product, but the prices are set in stone untill it is on sale.

[feel the light]

It's great to hear Kriss's view on this. Sounds like he's concerned that LBS sales will drop more then online sales go up. The LBS's in my area never carried KH, they would much rather carry cheap stuff that they mark way up, so they were never an option here. The uni market is tiny.
Since the online market is the only one most devoted riders buy from, and only knowing riders buy KH , I hope A E Bike type discounts will help KH sell more.
In my case I might have paid 500 $ to UDC for a KH later, or maybe not. Instead I purchased one last month from A E Bike.
We face an uphill battle here facing a choir of Torker riders who chime in that the extra weight of their rides "only makes them stronger ". If one of these benighted individuals is the hottest rider in 8th grade, every kid he talks to will buy a Torker, because KH ain't worth the money. None of the good riders they know ride them!, they will trust what their friends say. And because his friend couldn't get his mom to go 500 $ for a KH, he rides a Torker, setting in motion the trend of future sales of black, not blue.
This is a very price sensitive youth oriented market. I would guess that Torker outsells KH by more then 10 to 1.
It is unlikely we will find more nuts to ride unicycles. There are only so many branches on our kind of tree. So to sell one more KH, one less Torker must be sold.
Only Kriss will really know, and even his crystal ball is a bit cloudy. But I see a future where the A E Bike price becomes the price, due to the low overhead of the online retail model. KH sales will go up while quax and Torker goes down. UDC will find a way to survive on less then 50 % markup. And Kriss will make us more models in different colors !

[SARIN]

These are fantastic points. However I really do think that these kiddies that are allowed "Torker DX's" will end up eventually needing replacements or just wanting "nicer" later when they can make thier own $.

I am just a beginner unicyclist (@ almost 30 years old) and I just got a KH20. Not because I need it, but because I wanted it...and I could afford it. When I was a teen and wanted something I sure as hell wasn't getting any kind of "Pro-Model" anything. I had towait until I was 19 to get my own pro-model burton set-up...and I worked at the shop that sold them.

Unicycling is an "elitist" style of sport yet it's growing like hell. I don't think sales are going to hurt at all...shit I have about 5 more people eyeing up my KH all the time. I bet I'll have a few more friends with them by next year no matter what they cost.

[semplice]

Exactly Sarin - i did the same thing - could afford the KH 20" so bought it :-)
To tell you more - it is very possible that i will buy 29 :-)
Still, i remember when i was into in-line skating (about 12 years ago) and couldn`t afford Roces or K2 - i had to use crappy low-cost models - maybe that`s why i stopped riding - some tricks simply couldn`t be done without professional equipment.

[Unicorn]

To AgentQ. Everyone agreeing on a set price is called a cartel and it is very illegal in most western countries!

Kris should maximize his profit and that is how the entrepanurial capitolistic market works. I want Kris to make a big profit so that he has incentive to keep developing and designing better equipment for us. Personaly I don't think that it should concern Kris at what price the distributors sell his unicycles. If they buy them from him at a price where he makes a profit then he is doing good and should be happy. If there is large demand then he can raise his prices. He should do his own calculations whether he will make more money on high volume and low price or low volume and high price. This is called the "profit maximisazion point."
If a dealer then wants to dump KH unicycles at a loss that is his perogative. I think that AEbikes is making KH unicycles available to many people who otherwize would not be able to buy one. If UDC can't compete with those prices then they have no business being in business. BY THE WAY. UDC GERMANY OR MUNICYCLE.COM MDC SELL KH'S AT A PRICE VERY CLOSE TO AEbikes. IT IS JUST THE SHIPPING FROM GERMANY AND VAT IN EUROPE THAT THEN RAISE THE PRICE! So if they can do it I think that UDC US is kind of raping us. By the way there are other distributors. Harris I think, sells KH for much less than UDC US allthough quite a bit more than AEbikes.

Unicorn

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Unicorn

BY THE WAY. UDC GERMANY OR MUNICYCLE.COM MDC SELL KH'S AT A PRICE VERY CLOSE TO AEbikes. IT IS JUST THE SHIPPING FROM GERMANY AND VAT IN EUROPE THAT THEN RAISE THE PRICE!
Unicorn

UDC US $499

UDC Germany $540

UDC UK $529

Bedford (might be the 2006 version) $528 (US dollars)


jim

[Unicorn]

Jim, You have a mistake. You probably did not actually log into the MDC (Municycle.com) site. Germany has a 17% VAT value added tax that you don't have to pay if you order from outside of Germany. Therefore if you sign up to MDC and put down an address outside of Germany the site will automatically reduce this 17% VAT.

I get the following prices:

XXX -AEb -MDC -UDC
KH20 $363 $444 $499
KH24 $417 $478 $575
KH29 $335 $500 $599

Now I bought my KH24 from MDC about 4 months ago when the dollar was much stronger (That would make MDC cheaper yet.)but I think that we can all agree that MDC sells at much lower prices than UDC. With the KH24 he actually comes quite close to AEbikes. I am sure that UDC is a much bigger operation than MDC. MDC has UDC UK and UDC Sweden and others competing with him. UDC is way too expensive. I think that it is great that AEbikes are "spanking thier ass!"

Unicorn

[pdc]

Darn, I was gonna frivolously by a KH 29.
Seems like the "sale" is over http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...and=578&type=T
I wonder what/who caused that?

[One on one]

Originally Posted by pdc

Darn, I was gonna frivolously by a KH 29.
Seems like the "sale" is over http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...and=578&type=T
I wonder what/who caused that?

Time for a class action suit on price fixing?

[Brian O.]

Originally Posted by One on one

Time for a class action suit on price fixing?

Thats unfortunate for AE, they won't be getting any sales from unicyclists anytime soon haha.