Riding Backwards?

[ChangingLINKS.com]

Originally posted by jsm
It is not possible to fit in with "any style of rider" without idling. It's a must for freestyle, basketball, and hockey, and those are certainly riding styles.

I know that I'm exaggerating a bit here, but when did "basketball" become a riding style?
Some would argue that tight turning and sprinting are enough to play hockey and basketball. Maybe not at the competition level - but definately for the *rare* and fun "pick up games" that exist today.

Moreover, there are numerous replacements for idling. I count stillstands, hopping to stillstand, hopping, tight turns, riding extremely slowly (skinny-like riding) or even . . . . . (God forbid) dismounting and getting back on.

Remember that thread about "which rider people wanted to be like"? I could be wrong, but I don't think your Ryan was mentioned. Moreover, after seeing the videos of other competitors that didn't fall off - I (and others watching) strongly questioned why he was deemed "the best." Still I think he is a good rider and love that "1-foot wheelwalk with seat in back" that he did. Amazing.

"ChangingLINKS.com" <ChangingLINKS.com@NoEmail.Message.Poster.at.Unicyclist.com> writes:

> I'm simply
> "pro-skills-you'll-actually-use-with-the-most-popular-riding-styles-today-and
> -around-other-riders."

My problem is you go further than that! You ASSUME that offroad
riding styles are the most popular. I think you are failing to see
the light in two respects. First, I assert that offroad unicycling is
getting more press than other styles partly because it is developing
much more rapidly (as opposed to being more popular) and partly
because it is just so darned cool and accessible to spectators.
Second, and most important, in denying the validity of other styles,
you are settling for less that you deserve.

Let me explain this second point. I've been a rock climber for over
20 years. And in that time I have pursued several distinct styles of
climbing: Clean, sport, top rope, ice, mountaineering, bouldering,
solo (roped and freee) and more. Many climbers identify with one
style, and the result is that they either avoid other styles or get
less out of the experience than they could. I found that over time,
my interests would vary and I would switch focus from one style to
another, often seeing new possibilities in areas I had previously
neglected.

To me, true mastery of climbing involves appreciation of all aspects
of the sport along with a fine tuned perception of ones abilities.
This includes achieving a degree of control that lets you climb free
solo (where falling=death) and perceiving that this activity is little
different from walking a cliffside trail. But another aspect of the
mastery is being able to gain deep satisfaction from succes on a
risk-free top rope problem.

Now I have only been riding a few months longer than you, and I can
assure you that neither of us are anywhere near mastering unicycling,
but I am deeply convinced that a parallel exists between these sports,
and that rejecting particular styles as uninteresting and unimportant
is shortsighted.

--------------

Anyway, you dismiss idling as not useful, but tell me what you do when
you ride up to a mailbox to retrieve your letters. I'm not going to
be impresses if you dismount or bearhub the mailbox to keep upright.
I'll laugh out loud if you hop (and hopefully your point in hopping
would be to make me laugh). Of course you might stillstand while
retrieving your mail. Send me a video of the latter and I promise to
never challenge you in this forum again!

But that's just one example. Suppose you come to a red traffic light,
or have to stop to let pedestrians cross your path. Clearly you don't
value participation in uni hockey or basketball. Juggling isn't your
thing. You've already dismissed freestyle, but do you really think
people who can't ride backwards or idle will have the skills to
advance doing street tricks?

Lastly, I'll state my bias. If you can only ride forward and hop at a
stop, you're missing half of unicycling*.

Ken

* To be fair, I don't recommend riding backwards offroad without
serious skills and serious armor.

"onewheeljoe" <onewheeljoe@NoEmail.Message.Poster.at.Unicyclist.com> writes:

> Also, if you are thinking about riding backward and don't have
> wrist protection, now is probably the time. A helmet, sure. Wrist
> protection, definitely.

I'll add a recommendation for elbow pads. I managed to hit both
elbows hard enough I couldn't rest them on a table for months. Hey -
backwards riding can improve your manners!

Ken

[DigitalDave]

There should be no 'arguements' on whether a skill is 'usefull' or 'needed'.

I new rider needs guidance.
Like learning anything, one should focus on a goal.
(like learning guitar, pick a song you want to play)

I've been riding for 35 years. Just to get around, and to see if I could still, 'just do it'.

I've received renewed interest in my 'novelty' sport here in these forums. And it all started because I needed a new tire.

So now, after 35 years, I'm actually spending 'the time' to learn stuff I want to do, like idleing, and going backwards.

Because I:

1. want to idle
2. want to go backwards.

[ChangingLINKS.com]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ken Cline

ChangingLINKS: I'm simply "pro-skills-you'll-actually-use-with-the-most-popular-riding-styles-today-and
-around-other-riders."
Ken: My problem is you go further than that!

>> Sounds like a personal problem.

. You ASSUME that offroad riding styles are the most popular.

>> Nah. I know that there are more "freestyle" unicyclists than that of the other styles - (even more so if you count the multi-talented riders for each style they ride).

. in denying the validity of other styles,
you are settling for less that you deserve.

>> I was not denying the validity of freestyle - or any other style for that matter. I denied the validity of teaching a level 1 rider that he should start working on level 4 stuff because of some type of self-esteem problem.

. rejecting particular styles as uninteresting and unimportant is shortsighted.

Maybe. Maybe not. As humans we accept some things and reject others by nature. More importantly, I DON'T reject any style. I can idle. I can ride backwards. Rejection? I reject teaching level 1 riders to move on to level 4 skills immediately because of some sort of ego issue.

. you dismiss idling as not useful

>>> No. It's useful. I've seen clowns and jugglers do it. More correctly, I pointed out alternatives.

. tell me what you do when
you ride up to a mailbox to retrieve your letters.

>>> LOL. OK, but first tell me how you have sex on an unicycle. Shower? Have a life? Bueller? Anyone?

. I'm not going to be impresses if you dismount or bearhub the mailbox to keep upright.

>>> I sincerely state for the record: I don't care to impress people who think it's important to ride a unicycle while getting the mail.

. I promise to never challenge you in this forum again!

>>> I wasn't aware that you posed a challenge. If you didn't chime in, I'd be bored - notice all my posts today? It rained. Dammit! I could be "idling in the rain!"

. Suppose you come to a red traffic light, or have to stop to let pedestrians cross your path.

>>> Let's not go there. You're not thinking much about the safety of others and yourself if you're so worried about "busting a stylish idle" in dangerous situations. There are many alternatives that are safer, in more control and "cooler" including:
Being aware enough to slow down prior to reaching the intersection with an "extremely slow" roll.
Neo: You mean I'll be able to dodge traffic lights?
Morpheous: No, Neo what I'm telling you is if you pay enough attention, and you won't have to stop at traffic lights.

. Clearly you don't value participation in uni hockey or basketball.

>>> Nope. Love 'em. Are you reading what I'm writing or just trying to define my position as illogical - like telling a level 1 rider to work on level 4 skills immediately because of some over-zealous lust for flatland unicycling?

. Juggling isn't your thing.

>>> Correct. But, that doesn't mean it's not useful. I've seen clowns and jugglers do it.

. You've already dismissed freestyle, but do you really think
people who can't ride backwards or idle will have the skills to advance doing street tricks?

>>> Yes. That goes for muni also. One of the best riders in this town (in my opinion) doesn't idle or go backwards - but he trashes the trails heartily.

Lastly, I'll state my bias. If you can only ride forward and hop at a stop, you're missing half of unicycling*.
Ken

>>> I disagree. It's definately more than half.
I'll state my bias:
If you gotta resort to telling a level 1 rider to work on level 4 skills to boost your self-worth, I'd recommend sticking to other tatics

[jsm]

If you gotta resort to telling a level 1 rider to work on level 4 skills to boost your self-worth

What exactly are you accusing me of? Why would telling someone he should start work on idling boost my self-esteem? My reason for suggesting that a level one rider start learning idling (at the same time as hopping, etc.) is quite simple: it's a very useful skill (as I demonstrated earlier, and as several others pointed out) and one every rider should know. It takes a long time to learn, but the sooner you start, the sooner you'll get it. If you start practicing it when you are level one, and practice it ten minutes a day, you'll get it sooner than if you wait till you are an expert MUni rider. If my reason for suggesting idling and backward riding was to promote freestyle riding over other styles, think again. Backward riding and idling aren't just freestyle skills, they're basic skills every rider should know. (as I said above) If I was just trying to promote freestyle riding, I would additionally have suggested one-footed riding, seat in front riding, and possibly even wheel walking. But I didn't. Those are fundamental freestyle skills, and ones he could consider starting work on, (well maybe not ww) but they aren't that useful for any other styles, so I didn't go out of my way to promote them.

If you look back, you'll see I didn't originally even suggest he start working on idling. Mostly what I did was try to write something discouraging a total beginner from believing your ipsedixitism "Riding backwards and idling aren't necessary. Most of us can go weeks without using either skill.", and because of it not bothering to learn either skill ever.

You also are suggesting he start work on what is practically a level four skill. Hopping is level three, and gapping is certainly a good deal harder than basic hopping, so it's reasonable to assume its difficulty level is on a par with most of the level four skills.

In summation, there's nothing wrong with starting work on idling when you are level one, so long as you work on other skills as well.

[ProudYankee]

Originally posted by ChangingLINKS.com
Perhaps I should point out The COOLEST pics of 2005 thread. Let's look at those "cool" photos . . . . last I checked *every* skill that I mentioned was featured - and backwards and idling were "left out."
I guess if one wants to be "backwards, idle, or left out" he *should* work on it.

It sounds like you're suggesting to the original poster that he should only work on those skills which "look cool" to others. I don't agree at all.

If he manages to perform a trick or skill that impresses other people, but he doesn't enjoy doing it, then what's the point? He's not enjoying himself, so why did he bother with it? He's not a circus entertainer out to impress an audience.

I suppose there are two motivating factors to learn a skill:
1) You want to impress others.
2) You enjoy learning or doing the skill.

I put myself in category (2). I enjoyed learning to idle and would do it again, even though I don't use it very much now from a practical perspective. There was a certain inner satisfaction in mastering that skill.

It's a lot of fun for me now since it feels like dancing. I don't really care whether someone else is impressed by it or not. If I really cared that much, I suppose I would join the circus.

[vivalargo]

Dear Ken Cline:

We'll have to start a club of climbers/unicyclists. The ranks seem to be growing daily, especially with Muni.

Per backward riding, I'm with Harper. Super idling is not only a good way to wire both idling and the initial part of backward riding, it's a great balance exercise as well.

JL

[Moogs]

Originally posted by Unitik908
no no no your seat is fine but your new so your legs have to get to using those muscles.. give it some time and your legs will strengthen up and youll be good as new.

Chase

Well, unfortunately, I don't think the issue is muscles, I think the seat is chafing against my thighs... it doesn't feel like muscle hurt, I only feel it on the cycle, and it only hurts when it rubs on the seat Is that usual?

[john_childs]

Originally posted by Moogs
Well, unfortunately, I don't think the issue is muscles, I think the seat is chafing against my thighs... it doesn't feel like muscle hurt, I only feel it on the cycle, and it only hurts when it rubs on the seat Is that usual?

What saddle do you have? Can you find a picture of it at Unicycle.com if you're not sure of the brand?

There are some saddles that are bad for chafing, like the Savage saddles. You might have one of the bad saddles.

[harper]

Originally posted by Moogs
I've advanced to the level where I can go up and down fairly steep and long hills, stop for about a second and then get going again (though I can't idle yet), I can't do jumps and stuff, I'm practicing stopping with my pedals parallel to the ground to do that kind of stuff. My question is this: where do I go from here? I can ride forward as far as I want to, what's the next step? Going backwards? If so, how do I start learning that? Thanks, I'm new to this kind of thing, just a few weeks since I bought my first uni (20" Sun. Not a very good one, but I'm looking at upgrading on eBay).

This is how this thread started. It has deteriorated into something else. Moogs asked how to idle and ride backwards. He said he's practicing stopping with the pedals parallel so he can learn to hop. That's all. It wasn't complicated. He should have gotten answers about how to ride backwards and how to idle. Instead he got three pages of something that might as well have been telling him what he REALLY needs is to learn to bake chocolate cakes. He didn't ask how to bake chocolate cakes, though.

Originally posted by ChangingLINKS.com

Perhaps I should point out The COOLEST pics of 2005 thread. Let's look at those "cool" photos . . . . last I checked *every* skill that I mentioned was featured - and backwards and idling were "left out."

The very first photo in that thread shows me on top of an FN van de Graaff accelerator on Christmas Eve, 2002. It may interest you to know that I am idling in that photograph.

[ChangingLINKS.com]

Originally posted by harper
This is how this thread started. It has deteriorated into something else. Moogs asked how to idle and ride backwards. He said he's practicing stopping with the pedals parallel so he can learn to hop. That's all. It wasn't complicated. He should have gotten answers about how to ride backwards and how to idle. Instead he got three pages of something that might as well have been telling him what he REALLY needs is to learn to bake chocolate cakes. He didn't ask how to bake chocolate cakes, though.

Oh. I thought he said
My question is this: where do I go from here?
Guess that wasn't clear enough.
Perhaps he should have added:
I can ride forward as far as I want to, what's the next step?


Moogs asked how to idle and ride backwards.
Could you point out the sentence where??? Please?
I accidently overlooked the part where he wrote:
How do I learn to ride backwards (sans the "If" with a capital "I")

I see that "we" see what "we" want to see and can't see what we don't want to see.


Let's toss the logic of learning more basic skills.
Toss the immediate needs of the original poster.
While we're at it let's toss his questions also.


Et tu Harper?
Then die Drew!

/said my 2 cents already.


By now he knows there are various things he should work on.

[harper]

Yeah. I guess you're right. It's incredibly complicated.

[UniBrier]

I can't believe I hadn't read this thread yet.

There is nothing wrong with a "level 1" rider learning to ride backwards. Riding backwards is much like learning to ride forwards and can be learned at any time in one's skill development.

I learned to ride in 1976. By 1982 I could ride forwards, ride diagonally down steps, idle, and ride backwards. If I was lucky I could roll the occasional curb. I was perfectly happy with this skill set for another 20 years. It was not until 2002 I discovered the other skills and started learning them. (I had heard stories of people hopping up steps and that just seemed inconceivable. Ignorance is bliss)

So, I was a level 1-2 rider for 26 years. I've been level four for a couple year now.

As for riding backwards in Muni and Trials. I don't think it is uncommmon to set up at an obstacle then go backwards a couple revolutions to prepare for a rolling hop. In fact, it is a very common set up for a human jump over in performances.

"vivalargo" <vivalargo@NoEmail.Message.Poster.at.Unicyclist.com> writes:

> We'll have to start a club of climbers/unicyclists. The ranks seem to be
> growing daily, especially with Muni.

Count me in. I'll be in So Cal April 9-13, and might be able to sneak
away for a beer or two. You can email me at cline@frii.com.

------------

To ChangingLinks:

It is no surprise that the experts gave you the advice you've been
relaying. It is no surprise at all, because you didn't ask how to
progress as a unicyclist, but rather as an off-road unicyclist. You
wanted to know how to get from beginner to advanced trail rider as
quickly as possible, adn you got your answer. I know this because I
overheard you asking an expert last year in Moab.

But I do wonder about your goal of being able to get from point A to
point B most expeditiously. If that was really your goal, wouldn't
you choose a bicycle instead? For me, unicycling is about the
process, not the endpoints.

Ken