Miyata saddles

Hi Rod.

Thanks for your note. I assume this puts me in the hot seat? :-)

Miyata caught us by surprise with the new saddles. Our January 2001
order had saddles made in Japan. This year the boxes were stamped "Made
In China." I've seen great products from China. Torker unicycles are
made in China, and they're an outstanding value.

If you put the Japanese and Chinese saddles side by side, you couldn't
tell any difference. Same on the underside, except for a couple of
manufacturing marks.

The challenge we've had is in disassembling them. They've replaced the
two U-bolts with single carriage bolts (there have always been 9 squared
bolt holes on the frame; 4 of those holes were filled by two U-bolts).
If the nut is on too tight, the square carriage bolt reams out the
square. They've also applied a white adhesive (similar to Loctite) to
the bolt threads, compounding the problem.

Mark Scarbrough, who's our primary shop man now, has been resourceful in
creating a workaround. With 1500 saddles, we have little choice. We
use a Dremel high-speed drill with a cutting blade to cut a slot on the
head of the carriage bolt. That slot enables us to secure the carriage
bolt with a wide flat-blade screwdriver. Then the nut comes off. The
same carriage bolt can be used on reassembly because the bolt head is
still much larger than the reamed-out hole.

>From this point forward, when we receive an order for a saddle, we'll
offer to disassemble it before shipment. We're making this a option in
our catalog as well. We're also communicating these problems to the
manufacturer.

Best regards,

John Drummond
www.Unicycle.com
1-800-Unicycle

-----Original Message-----
From: rsu-admin@unicycling.org [mailto:rsu-admin@unicycling.org] On
Behalf Of teachndad
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:26 PM
To: rsu@unicycling.org
Subject: Re: New Miyata - Big Problems


I was on the phone this morning for a few minutes with Mark at
Uniycle.com. It was for an unrelated matter, but I got the impression
that they know about the problem(not sure, though). Mark builds the
air seat conversions. Perhaps call him and ask if he has any tricks for
getting around the problems with the new seats.

This really sounds bad. What's John D. going to do with(what could be)
nearly 1500 obsolete Miyata saddles when the (above mentioned) seats
come out? At least he can use them in starter kits and not recommend
them for air seat conversion.

Hey, John Drummond, can you respond to this?

I don't like my green seat, but, hey, at least it is an old one.

later.


--
teachndad - The Munieer

Rod Wylie
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[UniDak]

And this is exactly why I LOVE UNICYCLE.COM.
{annoying little kid shouts} do you love it enough to marry it? {I reply sarcastically} yes, I am going to mary Unicycle.com. {Little kid screams} He admits it, He admits it, he is going to marry Unicyle.com.
-David Kaplan

None of this is an obstacle to performing an air-seat conversion using the
Air Pillow and Roach cover sold by unicycle.com.

I popped that air-seat conversion right over my (older) Miyata seat without
taking off the original cover or taking apart the seat. It works fine and is
a real pleasure to ride.

I was afraid that the pillow would shift around, but that has not happened.

If I wanted to adjust the pressure, I would have to pull the Roach cover off
(easy enough). But I don't anticipate adjusting it very often. Just remember
to start with the thing almost totally deflated. It needs so little air that
it will hold a fold on its own.

It is unlikely to lose any air since the pressure is basically zero when I
am not sitting on it. In fact it is probably trying to suck in air.

--Mark

--
Mark Newbold
Montpelier, Vermont USA
http://dogfeathers.com
Alternate email: manx@sover.net

[UniDak]

How did you get the roach to stay on? Mark from Unicycle.com said that the bumpers are what primarily hold the damn thing on. Can you maybe throw us some pictures?
-David Kaplan

Maybe I misunderstood this whole thread. Is it the Bumper nuts that won't
come off? If that's what you guys are talking about then it is definitely a
problem for doing the conversion. But what's this stuff about U-bolts then?
There are 3 bolts holding the front bumper and two holding the rear.

I can post a picture if you want. The bumper goes over the roach cover. I
had to punch holes in the netting of the Roach cover, underneath, for the
bumper bolts to go through.

--Mark




UniDak wrote:

> How did you get the roach to stay on? Mark from Unicycle.com said that
> the bumpers are what primarily hold the damn thing on. Can you maybe
> throw us some pictures?
> -David Kaplan
>
> --
> UniDak - David Kaplan
>
> I think that English was never meant to be taken seriously. Its kind of
> like A cartoon language... transient and flexible like the elastic,
> animated characters of old. -Greg Harper
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> UniDak's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/311
> View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/17662

--
Mark Newbold
Montpelier, Vermont USA
http://dogfeathers.com
Alternate email: manx@sover.net

[UniDak]

Yep, thats the problem. We Cant get the bolts off to separate the bumpers from the base.
-David Kaplan

[jagur]

Originally posted by Mark Newbold
what's this stuff about U-bolts then?

yep this will be heard from here on out,for life..."sonny,back in my day miyata seats (teeth fall out) had U-type bolts.

[john_childs]

How in the world do you get a Dremel tool under the seat cover while the bumpers are still on? That has got to be a complicated contortion.

Once the seat is disassembled a strip of sheet metal with two square holes for the carriage bolts could be used just like the sheet metal stiffener plate that is already in the Miyata saddle. The square holes in the sheet metal would keep the carriage bolts from spinning in the round hole and allow it to be disassembled easier the second time.

john_childs

Do you have any old seat frames that were never used? Maybe switch the
U-bolts instead of the new shit? We also noticed the problem here. That's my
only Idea on correcting the problem, but it's only short term.

John Drummond wrote:

> Hi Rod.
>
> Thanks for your note. I assume this puts me in the hot seat? :-)
>
> Miyata caught us by surprise with the new saddles. Our January 2001
> order had saddles made in Japan. This year the boxes were stamped "Made
> In China." I've seen great products from China. Torker unicycles are
> made in China, and they're an outstanding value.
>
> If you put the Japanese and Chinese saddles side by side, you couldn't
> tell any difference. Same on the underside, except for a couple of
> manufacturing marks.
>
> The challenge we've had is in disassembling them. They've replaced the
> two U-bolts with single carriage bolts (there have always been 9 squared
> bolt holes on the frame; 4 of those holes were filled by two U-bolts).
> If the nut is on too tight, the square carriage bolt reams out the
> square. They've also applied a white adhesive (similar to Loctite) to
> the bolt threads, compounding the problem.
>
> Mark Scarbrough, who's our primary shop man now, has been resourceful in
> creating a workaround. With 1500 saddles, we have little choice. We
> use a Dremel high-speed drill with a cutting blade to cut a slot on the
> head of the carriage bolt. That slot enables us to secure the carriage
> bolt with a wide flat-blade screwdriver. Then the nut comes off. The
> same carriage bolt can be used on reassembly because the bolt head is
> still much larger than the reamed-out hole.
>
> >From this point forward, when we receive an order for a saddle, we'll
> offer to disassemble it before shipment. We're making this a option in
> our catalog as well. We're also communicating these problems to the
> manufacturer.
>
> Best regards,
>
> John Drummond
> www.Unicycle.com
> 1-800-Unicycle
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rsu-admin@unicycling.org [mailto:rsu-admin@unicycling.org] On
> Behalf Of teachndad
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:26 PM
> To: rsu@unicycling.org
> Subject: Re: New Miyata - Big Problems
>
> I was on the phone this morning for a few minutes with Mark at
> Uniycle.com. It was for an unrelated matter, but I got the impression
> that they know about the problem(not sure, though). Mark builds the
> air seat conversions. Perhaps call him and ask if he has any tricks for
> getting around the problems with the new seats.
>
> This really sounds bad. What's John D. going to do with(what could be)
> nearly 1500 obsolete Miyata saddles when the (above mentioned) seats
> come out? At least he can use them in starter kits and not recommend
> them for air seat conversion.
>
> Hey, John Drummond, can you respond to this?
>
> I don't like my green seat, but, hey, at least it is an old one.
>
> later.
>
> --
> teachndad - The Munieer
>
> Rod Wylie
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> teachndad's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/56
> View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/17633
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ___
> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list -
> www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu
>
> ________________________________________________________________________ ___
> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list - www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu

[willfcc]

I can see it now:

For sale on eBay, vintage Miyata seats, green only. Reserve met, bidding wars at 2am.

In article <john_childs.3jhtt@timelimit.unicyclist.com>,
john_childs <john_childs.3jhtt@timelimit.unicyclist.com> writes:
>
> How in the world do you get a Dremel tool under the seat cover while the
> bumpers are still on?
>

Doing a conversion, you would likely be replacing the cover
anyway. In this case you could just cut into it. If you need
to save the cover, you could pick out the seam around the top
and then re-sew it once it's off.

I haven't seen one, but perhaps you could grind a slot into the
thread-end of the bold and use a thin screwdriver on the underside
of the seat to hold the bolt while turning the nut.

============================================================
Gardner Buchanan <gbuchana@rogers.com>
Ottawa, ON FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today.

[Noel.Holland]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gardner
>I haven't seen one, but perhaps you could grind a slot into the
>thread-end of the bold and use a thin screwdriver on the >underside
>of the seat to hold the bolt while turning the nut.

H'mm that an interesting idea. It wouldn't help with getting the bumper bolts off in the first place as the nuts used have closed ends preventing access to the bolt end. But it might help with the problem I've got at the moment, how to tighten the bolts after the seat cover has been replaced. If I swap out the covered nuts for plain hex nuts I could cut the slot in the end of the bolt and tighten it from the outside. After this is done you would have some sharp edges to the end of the bolts. But you could use a file to take the burrs off and then when the bolts were in place, cover the whole assembly with soft setting bath sealant to protect you fingers.

Nice idea Gardner, think I might try this.

[jagur]

i just can't belive what a mess this haz become