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Old 2006-08-18, 02:36 AM   #1
Sponge
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Exclamation Designing a custom Trials frame. I need your help and ideas.

Hello there, I've recently been sitting down and talking to Mr. Aran Cook @ Iolobikes, about making a custom trials frame. His company Iolobikes, already makes bespoke, totally customised biketrials frames and the results are extremely successful, strong, and longlasting.

So, I decided it was time for a new frame... So what was there to get?:

KH 2005? nah, seen 2 break at the hands of a friend. Plus I'd like to be different.

Koxx XTP? Koxx-One is going in the bad direction of Koxx bikes, too expensive and really a scam for such a small thing. Plus it's aluminium= early death compared to tough steel frames.

Nimbus/Devil/Dan Heaton Koxx/Orange Bud?: yeah had 2 of them already, all the same stuff basically...

Any other frames, I don't really acknowledge as real buying options. So, I decided, instead of all those, why not have a customised trials frame that's both strong and unique?

It'll be made of T45 Steel tubing which is Fillet brazed together (no welding). Choice of end powdercoating colour can be chosen, and Mr. Cook can add gussets or any other extras to stiffen the frame or reinforce it. What's further more reassuring is, that if I crack it (ever?) then Aran Cook can repair it and add further reinforcement or modify it to eliminate weakness.

Where I need your help is that, I'll needing an already successful trials frame like the KH 2005 or KH 2004 to use as a base to help Aran get a good idea of how to get things sorted. It's going to be a tough T45 steel frame and will have the bearing holders of a KH frame, as I find the normal generic bearing holders of Nimbuses and Devils to be extremely tiresome to take apart and put together (as I learned from travelling abroad so much). I need you guys to tell me what you'd like to see in a custom trials frame and what frame I should send Aran to base it off. The frames I can send are: KH 2004, KH 2005, or a Devil.

The end resulting frame may look quite similar to its base frame, but it will be totally different in construction and strength, which is what matters.

anyway, check out www.iolobikes.com and see the 'Construction and geometry' page to see how the T45 steel and Fillet brazing come into effect.

Thanks for reading.
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Old 2006-08-18, 02:53 AM   #2
Ricky W
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i can't help but it sounds cool. How much are you having to pay to get it made
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Old 2006-08-18, 03:01 AM   #3
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I'm not too sure yet, their bike frames cost 260 Pounds as a starting price. So I think my uni frame might cost around 100 if it's going to a fair price.
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Old 2006-08-18, 04:02 AM   #4
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What has been the break point of other frames? Or the problem point of other frames? That is probably the best place to start. The other thing you want to take into consideration is how much clearance you want and in what form. Do you want a form fitting frame similar to a rounded frame, or do you want a flat top. You seem to know what you want in terms of a bearing clamp so really the things to look at are: basic frame design (single piece, hunter style, or reinforced hunter style which I think ryan used to have and Jeff Groves is still riding), and crown style.

Going by flat top crown style on a basic single piece frame, there are three major styles I can think of, "flat" top (Torker DX style), "round" top (Koxx signiture style), and "post" top (Yuni style frames).

Are you having a problem with breaking frames? Bending them? Are they too heavy? The best way to design a frame is to find out what the things are that make you not want to use a production frame. Not just o I heard this is bad, or this one is ugly, but what is it that makes the frame a bad one.
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Old 2006-08-18, 04:08 AM   #5
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I would think that a good frame would be a lot like the 2005 KH frame, only perhaps more reinforcements around the crown, and knurling on the crown. seeing as your having it made, you might as well get a long seat tube also. minimal tire clearence would be good also.

that's about all I can think of.
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Old 2006-08-18, 04:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mornish
I would think that a good frame would be a lot like the 2005 KH frame, only perhaps more reinforcements around the crown, and knurling on the crown. seeing as your having it made, you might as well get a long seat tube also. minimal tire clearence would be good also.

that's about all I can think of.
Minimal tire clearance is something I would actualy stear away from for a trials frame as you are very likely to knock your wheel out of true if you are killing frames, also knurling is something that would weaken a crown and is something that is definatly not needed for a trials uni. But yeah your suggestion of a long seat tube seems like a good one, I would imagine that that is probably a large thing that most trials frames havn't even touched.
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Old 2006-08-18, 04:21 AM   #7
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ok, I thinkt he reason why there aren't long neck trials frames is because they would most likely have to have different size choices and short people still might not fit on them.


maybe extra reinforcers around the seat crown then. If it's for pure trials a round crown frame will save you alot of bruised knees also.
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Old 2006-08-18, 04:49 AM   #8
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ntappin, I'm having this custom frame made because I have seen faults on previous frames. Joe Hodges is having a chip in on this frame design, as he wants a frame that won't break on him, even though he's getting an XTP.

However, its just something I wanted to make, so possibly, with more interest, Iolobikes can custom make some more uni frames for other people, at an affordable price.

However, i am still stuck on what sort of frame style I want. I don't think I want the Devil type, I'm kinda thinking between the KH 2005 or KH2004 frame styles (whatever the proper names are). More suggestions are welcome.
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Old 2006-08-18, 04:53 AM   #9
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Also, I have taken into consideration, the break points and the weakspots on some trials frames. The Nimbus II frame's weakspot just below the top of its legs, and the KH 2005's weakspot at the weld joining the seattube to the rest of the frame.

I'm mainly a trials rider, but really wouldn't mind being able to do a few flatland moves like 1 footing etc. So I think a flat top is best, but now comes the hard choice, what kind of flat top do I want?

EDIT: could someone maybe show me pictures and describe what a "single piece", "hunter style", "reinforced hunter", or "crown style". I probably know what they are but just haven't really used these terms often.

Last edited by Sponge; 2006-08-18 at 04:57 AM.
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Old 2006-08-18, 04:54 AM   #10
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Itake it you want a squareish crown then?

also, does iolobikes make titanium frames? I'm not sure how strong a titanium frame would be, but it would be aweosme to have a titanium trials frame
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Old 2006-08-18, 05:06 AM   #11
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Yeah I want a square/flat top frame, but there are SO MANY different types out there. I just had a look at the Koxx Signature alu frame, then at the KH'05, KH'04, and Devil/Nimbus. This is where I needed other peoples' help, to choose a design.

No, Iolobikes don't make titanium sorry, only T45 steel fillet brazed. (which is incredibly strong itself). However, I do know several Russian brands that'll be willing to make titanium frames, but they cost a bomb.
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Old 2006-08-18, 05:47 AM   #12
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yea, personally, I think a steel/trials version of the koxx sig frame would be awesome for street and trials.
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Old 2006-08-18, 11:53 AM   #13
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Hi there,
If you want to learn a few flatland moves, it usually means that you will end up learning quite a few- so right there and then i would knock out the options of hunter style ( multiple tubes from bearing holder to seat post on each leg of the frame) or round crown. I think the long seatpost idea is a good one- a seatpost (unless its a thompson) will die before a frame does. So cut out the weak spot and make your frame have less seatpost to potentially bend.
This also makes it easier to do stand up wheel walking and frame based skills (no pesky seat post clamp to get in the road)
Also take into consideration seat post size- 22.2mm is too flimsy to withstand learning crankflips or some bad bails.
It seems that you are not a rider who is only going to ride in one discipline (trials/street), so making a dedicated frame for one of them may leave you dissapointed when you want to expand your riding style.
Might i suggest not making the frame overkill with large gauged tubing and gussets- less can be more, and if it doesn't last your riding it seems as though you can just get it fixed.

Have fun! and post us pics if the project goes ahead
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Old 2006-08-18, 02:06 PM   #14
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Thanks for the comments and ideas so far, I am definitely having it a big seattube size, like the 27.2 or so on the KH 2005, so i can use my Tryall post and Koxx1 clamp.

Still, I don't have a clue what hunter style or reinforced hunter etc.. all look like, do you think it's worth getting the frame done in the way that the Koxx Signature is done?

EDIT: I am really a pretty full on trials rider, who's almost totally talentless when it comes to freestyle stuff. I just think having a flat top would be good as a mess about kinda thing, like 1 footing along skinnies perhaps.

Last edited by Sponge; 2006-08-18 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 2006-08-18, 07:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntappin
But yeah your suggestion of a long seat tube seems like a good one, I would imagine that that is probably a large thing that most trials frames havn't even touched.
I agree here. I've got an uncut 300mm seatpost maxed out on my Yuni trials frame and it's still a bit short for my taste. I'm a tallish (6') guy who rides SIF a lot and I'm finding that I have to hunch over a bit to hang onto my seat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by napalm
Also take into consideration seat post size- 22.2mm is too flimsy to withstand learning crankflips or some bad bails.
Do you have any evidence to back that up? My Yuni trials frame takes a 22.2mm seatpost and I've beat the living hell out of that thing with no problems. I've broken several seats and am now riding on a CF seat base, but the frame has yet to bend or break anywhere. Is an extra 3mm of diameter going to make that huge of a difference?
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