Unicyclist Community

Go Back   Unicyclist Community > Unicycling Discussion > General Unicycling Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 2017-11-21, 10:06 PM   #1
Klaas Bil
Sir Prince of Newsgroupia
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ede, Netherlands
Age: 64
Posts: 4,672
What wheel size for geared muni for XC?

I have two geared unis (29 and 36) for road use, but virtually all my offroad riding has been on 24 x 3". Initially on 170mm cranks (I'm talking 2002 here), gradually went down, now on 137 mm cranks.

I moved house not too long ago, and the offroad riding in my new environment is largely cross-country style. There are the occasional slopes, ruts, roots and drops, but more often than not the trails allow for more speed than I can muster on my 24". By way of a test, I've been doing some offroad on my 36" with 165 mm cranks (only 1:1 gear), which went not too bad in most places. So I'm thinking of buying/building a faster offroad uni.

If it weren't for the Schlumpf option, I would probably spring for a 27.5" or perhaps 29". But with a Schlumpf hub, I think 26" would be a more versatile choice. More technical-happy when the trail requires it, faster when the trail allows it.

Now my concern is that 26" as a wheelsize is becoming less prevalent, and tyre selection will become pretty narrow. So I'm wondering:
  • Is 26" in itself a good wheelsize for a Schlumpfed XC uni?
  • Is the 26" wheelsize really dying out in offroad riding (both uni and mtb)? How fast?
  • Would 27.5" in high gear be unusably fast for XC (also in view of my age, and keep in mind I want to continue riding for a looooong time)?
  • I consider a 24" Schlumpf as an alternative option, if 26" would not be future proof and 27.5 is "too fast".

Thoughts?
Klaas Bil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-21, 10:49 PM   #2
UniDreamerFR
Unicyclist
 
UniDreamerFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: France, near Paris
Age: 43
Posts: 475
I'm not sure to understand why you want a geared uni for your new trails which are rather XC.
Do you think that a (not geared) 29x3" with 137 cranks would be too slow for your trails?
A G24 in high gear will be, IMHO less good than a 36x150 for example or than a 29+x137. it won't be necessary faster and it will be less stable, excepted the possibility to shift down for more technical parts, but if I understand well it's more often a easy XC trail.

I have had my schlumpf on a 26, then a 26+ then a 29+, did some muni with them but I liked it less than a non geared muni, heavier, and I often had accidental up shifts on small drops. And doing muni in high gear... more dangerous than anything else (at least for me).
that's why I put the schlumpf on a 36er.

So unless you have to ride a long road/path distance before reaching your trail, and unless you want to go really fast on the trail I'm not sur to see the interest of a guni for that.
Some riders are very good with gunis even off road though.
__________________
- Geared kh36 + King George + Kh Tbar + HS33
- Qu-ax 36" + nightrider +Q-handle+ cable rim brake
- kh 29" + knard 29x3+ kh Tbar + HS33
- Qu-ax trial 19"
-24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.
UniDreamerFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-21, 11:40 PM   #3
MUCFreerider
29" Muni/Downhill! (and 36" Muni)
 
MUCFreerider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaas Bil View Post
  • Is 26" in itself a good wheelsize for a Schlumpfed XC uni?
  • Is the 26" wheelsize really dying out in offroad riding (both uni and mtb)? How fast?
  • Would 27.5" in high gear be unusably fast for XC (also in view of my age, and keep in mind I want to continue riding for a looooong time)?
  • I consider a 24" Schlumpf as an alternative option, if 26" would not be future proof and 27.5 is "too fast".
So I have to preface by saying that I don't own a Schumpf.
But from doing lots of 36 XC, I would agree with UniDreamerFR that a 24" Schlumpf offers no advantage over a 36 for XC.
As to the 26/27.5 question: on the one hand it's a really small difference in rim size (the exact numbers are elsewhere in the forum, but the 27.5 is not halfway between a 26 and 29 but much closer to 26 because of the stupid playing the numbers for marketing). I'm just speculating, but to me 27.5 Schlumpfed doesn't seem like it would be unmanageable for XC.
As to the longevity of 26", it's hard to know for sure, but my feeling is that the basic and inexpensive tires will be around for a long long time. Where the difference may be noticeable is in new and high-end tires, where manufactures switched to 27.5. For example, most of the high-end low weight 3" tires are in 27.5 and 29. But for XC you probably don't need any extra-wide or super sticky thread and a basic XC tire should work fine.
Thus, I think it's probably a wash between 26 and 27.5". Both would be good for XC.

Although UniDreamerFR does have a good point: if it's mostly XC and not so steep/overly technical then why would you need low gear? A 36" offers a larger wheel with better roll-over and simply more momentum which are 2 *big* advantages for XC. 36" with 125s is awesome for fast XC and with the 150s I can handle more variety with more steep sections. Yes, a 26/27.5 Guni will give you a higher gear but without the momentum, stability and roll-over advantages of the 36. On a completely non-technical gravel road you'll be faster but for XC trails and up-down rolling sections I'm not sure if it's better/faster. OK, I guess more than anything the Schlumpf would give you a bail-out low gear if you are beat or hit a hard/steep section. Oh, well a 26/27.5 is also much easier to transport and store.
__________________
36" Nimbus Oracle 200mm disc (127/114/100mm road, 165/150/137/127mm offroad)
KH29+, Maxxis DHR II 29x3.0 (new Feb 2017!)
26" Nimbus, Duro, outboard 160mm disc (Downhill)
24" Koxx, Duro, Magura HS (gathering dust)
19" Trials Impact Athmos

Last edited by MUCFreerider; 2017-11-21 at 11:43 PM.
MUCFreerider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-22, 12:37 AM   #4
juggleaddict
late-night rider
 
juggleaddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Age: 28
Posts: 1,276
Send a message via AIM to juggleaddict
Have you tried out the 29er off-road? I'd give it a shot and see if you like that size in the low gear, or you want to go faster.

I prefer a 26x4 or a 29er over my 24, and it's very noticeably faster. The 26 fat is the most fun wheel I think I own off-road. It's a steamroller. Make sure you're not just getting a geared hub because you can.

It really depends on the trails whether I would even use the upper gear. Trails that have technical sections broken up by double-track would be perfect for a schlumpf, but for most of my riding I just don't see going geared. You know the terrain and your ability.
__________________
Steel is real! => I ride a Nimbus!
juggleaddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-22, 09:35 AM   #5
unicycle6869
Level 10 Rider!
 
unicycle6869's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 38
Posts: 1,778
Send a message via MSN to unicycle6869 Send a message via Skype™ to unicycle6869
I would vote on a 27.5 geared. Not that much noticeable difference than a 26 and it’s super fun in high gear on easy singletrack.
unicycle6869 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-22, 10:34 PM   #6
bungeejoe
Joe Myers
 
bungeejoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bellingham, WA
Age: 61
Posts: 667
24g

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaas Bil View Post
I have two geared unis (29 and 36) for road use, but virtually all my offroad riding has been on 24 x 3"…

Thoughts?
Klaas Bil:

Almost everyone on this forum severely bash any reference to a 24g unicycle.

First, I don't think we all speak the same language - "Muni", "XC", "Downhill", "Climbing", etc.

Many here think flat dirt and flat grass are "extreme". "Rail-to-Trails" is climbing.

The geared build that I enjoyed the most and had the most fun on was a 2008 KH 24" with Schlumpf mountain geared hub and 150mm cranks. I'm not saying it was the fastest or best size for you or anyone else. Just the most fun to ride. If you (and everyone else) are not interested in fun don't ready any further.

I could shift up or down any where any place at almost any speed with 100% assurance of not UPDing.

I learned to hop and rolling hop right foot back in low gear and left foot back in high gear so I never hit the shift button accidentally (you may need to reverse this depending on which side/direction you choose to mount the hub).

With a stiff 3.0 sidewall tire I could roll and ride ANY downhill I wanted. For a number of years I used the 24g KH in 8 to 12 mountain bike races each year in the Pacific Northwest (we have mountains here). Steep, crooked, rocky, and roots are the the normal (nothing flat, remember it has "mountian in the name). Many times I would roll down very steep single track in high gear, pushing through a squealing brake while in high gear.

I moved up to a 26g KH thinking it was time to grow and get better times (speed). Even after a few years the 26g KH was harder to climb with and enough more awkward I spent less time in high gear. My finish times were usually slower than when I was riding 24g KH. I walked more of the climbs if technical.

Moving up to a 26g KH was a mistake for me. No as much fun l. Not as fast. Not as nimble to turn. Not as sure to mount in odd circumstances (you may recall I ride clippless). Other wise about the same hoping, and shifting. On tight switch backs I ended up hop turning more often. Pushing through a screaming brake seemed a little riskier. If I should have a very bad fall at my age, in a single income family, the consequences seemed worse when on the 26g KH. I suppose the way to word it is I felt like I was "riding the edge" all the time for little gain.

A 29g might be okay for XC but I always picked the 36g if 29g high gear might be useable.

I noticed that as wheel size increases also the tendency for the unicycle to "lope" in high gear increases starting with my 26g in high gear. On the 24g in high gear I just felt like I was getting into the swing of things. My 36g didn't lope but 29g high gear is the worst for me. Lope is okay but may become irritating for some of us.

Yes, I keep speaking in past tense about geared unicycles. I've had seven Schlumpf mountain drive hub since 2009. I'm down to four. I gifted the only one still functional to a good friend while it was still new in the shipping box. The rest have all been literally wore out, been returned for warranty, or failed/broke. Two are in the scrape heap. Repair parts would exceed 50% of new replacement cost IF I could get someone to sell them to me. Even more to ship both ways and pay ridiculous tariffs. The remains two are still on vacation in Switzerland starting there second ski season. I'm beginner to hope I never get them back. If I do, one will go back in the 24" KH.

Are you wondering what I ride in downhill, mountain bike races, and cyclocross now without any working geared hubs? My 2008 KH 29" with a 2.4 and either 125mm or 150mm. I ride the 2009 KH 36" with 110mm or 125mm for XC, Gran Fondo, and road.

If you are still reading this you must be looking to have fun! That is what I feel should influence your decision. Not anything I like. What will bring the most smiles on your face.

Enjoy,
Joe Myers
__________________
...



...
bungeejoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-22, 11:23 PM   #7
UniDreamerFR
Unicyclist
 
UniDreamerFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: France, near Paris
Age: 43
Posts: 475
Yeah but your are bungeejoe, when you're saying something is not that hard it's like superman saying "comme on guys, flying is easy"

I agree with you on at least one point, according to my only ride on a G24 compared to my experience on G26, G29 and G36 (which is nothing compared to you), the G24 didn't felt as tricky and haunted as the G26 (in high gear).
Otherwise I find the G29 more natural (still in high gear) than the G26, and I find the G36 more natural than the G29.

Rolling hops in low gear with one foot in front and in high gear with the other foot, wow, how's Lois Lane doing by the way?
__________________
- Geared kh36 + King George + Kh Tbar + HS33
- Qu-ax 36" + nightrider +Q-handle+ cable rim brake
- kh 29" + knard 29x3+ kh Tbar + HS33
- Qu-ax trial 19"
-24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.

Last edited by UniDreamerFR; 2017-11-22 at 11:25 PM.
UniDreamerFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-22, 11:58 PM   #8
bungeejoe
Joe Myers
 
bungeejoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bellingham, WA
Age: 61
Posts: 667
Lois Lane (Lanaboos)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UniDreamerFR View Post
…how's Lois Lane doing by the way?
It's a little off topic but hopefully no one will mind.

Thank you for asking. Lanaboos is working through permanent disability issues. Four years ago she wrecked at Steven Pass Bike Park on a trail named Bonecrusher resulting in severe TBI, five compression fractured vertebrae, clay shoveler's fractured neck and forty plus stitches in her face. When I found her I knew life will never be the same for either of us.

Joe Myers
__________________
...



...
bungeejoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-23, 12:58 AM   #9
UniDreamerFR
Unicyclist
 
UniDreamerFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: France, near Paris
Age: 43
Posts: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by bungeejoe View Post
It's a little off topic but hopefully no one will mind.

Thank you for asking. Lanaboos is working through permanent disability issues. Four years ago she wrecked at Steven Pass Bike Park on a trail named Bonecrusher resulting in severe TBI, five compression fractured vertebrae, clay shoveler's fractured neck and forty plus stitches in her face. When I found her I knew life will never be the same for either of us.

Joe Myers
Well, It was certainly a bit clumsy from me cause I wasn't referring to your real honey but to the imaginary character lois as a way to compare you to Superman.
I wouldn't have used any humorous sentence to ask you about Lanaboos since I was actually aware of this tragic story.
Indeed I was afraid my joke could be understood this way, and that's exactly what happened. My bad. Sorry about that.
__________________
- Geared kh36 + King George + Kh Tbar + HS33
- Qu-ax 36" + nightrider +Q-handle+ cable rim brake
- kh 29" + knard 29x3+ kh Tbar + HS33
- Qu-ax trial 19"
-24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.

Last edited by UniDreamerFR; 2017-11-23 at 12:59 AM.
UniDreamerFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-23, 03:14 AM   #10
bungeejoe
Joe Myers
 
bungeejoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bellingham, WA
Age: 61
Posts: 667
I was not offended. I found your reply humorous. I don't see my self as anywhere near a super man or expert unicyclist. But my wife often refers to me as "her" Superman. Thus my reply referring to her as "my" Lois Lane.

Me bad,
Joe Myers
__________________
...



...
bungeejoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-23, 06:17 AM   #11
Siddhartha Valmont
Unicyclist
 
Siddhartha Valmont's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nearby Frankfurt-am-Main (Germany)
Posts: 1,323
Lots of nice comments already. However, I just want to quickly comment one point that was overlooked :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaas bil
Is the 26" wheelsize really dying out in offroad riding (both uni and mtb)? How fast?
Short answer : no

Long answer : 24" is supposed to be dead in the MTB world but there is still enough tires to cover the uses we have with uni (not great but good).
So with dozen years worth of 26" MTB sales, there is still a huge amount of bikes out there and then market for tires.
Yes, it may still mean that not every new tire will get all possible 26" equivalent or it will not get every "innovation" but there will be tires
__________________
=> Triton 29: KH XC, Nimbus CrMo hub, Spirit 110/137 & Schwalbe Big One
=> Flansberrium 26: Nextie rim, JumboJim 4.0, Spirit 127/150mm, M4O ISIS
=> MiniFat 24: M4O green, KH/S hub, Spirit 117/137mm, HollyRoller 2.4/Mission 4.0
Siddhartha Valmont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-24, 06:02 PM   #12
Up Rite
Unicyclist in training.
 
Up Rite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Wet Coast of the Great White North
Posts: 160
Being new to this, if I wanted a geared muni, 24" seems to be a practical and versatile size. Thought that size would be great in rough and steep terrain, then decent speed of a 36" on flatter stuff. Why would people be down on that size?
__________________
Unicycling is a Rite of Passage.
Up Rite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-25, 09:08 AM   #13
Siddhartha Valmont
Unicyclist
 
Siddhartha Valmont's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nearby Frankfurt-am-Main (Germany)
Posts: 1,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Up Rite View Post
Being new to this, if I wanted a geared muni, 24" seems to be a practical and versatile size. Thought that size would be great in rough and steep terrain, then decent speed of a 36" on flatter stuff. Why would people be down on that size?
It is maybe because the size as regular muni is no longer popular now there is good tech on other sizes. And to be fair, 24 is wonderful when doing mountain downhill whereas most of the riders ride flatter trails (not everybody leave near Mt Washington or Utah/Colorado mountains).
And last nail in the coffin is the disk brake that helps have more control on bigger wheels than cranks alone when going down.

My 24 is geared and I am happy with it. The point is that your setup suits you and make you happy so you ride it. And if it is not perfect, you can still put the hub in a bigger wheel (cost of rebuild is far less than the hub anyway )
__________________
=> Triton 29: KH XC, Nimbus CrMo hub, Spirit 110/137 & Schwalbe Big One
=> Flansberrium 26: Nextie rim, JumboJim 4.0, Spirit 127/150mm, M4O ISIS
=> MiniFat 24: M4O green, KH/S hub, Spirit 117/137mm, HollyRoller 2.4/Mission 4.0

Last edited by Siddhartha Valmont; 2017-11-25 at 09:08 AM.
Siddhartha Valmont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-25, 12:12 PM   #14
Mikefule
Roland Hope School of Unicycling
 
Mikefule's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Long Bennington, Lincolnshire, England.
Posts: 6,869
I don't own a geared uni. I value the simplicity of the direct drive and also I can't afford one.

However, in the hypothetical world where I won the lottery despite not buying a ticket, I would choose the wheel size for the most difficult sections I expected to ride and gear it up for the long drags in between.

Then it comes down to preferred riding style, local terrain, and tyre choice.

I think a G36 would "only do one thing well".

I think an ungeared 24 handles better on tricky off road than an ungeared 36.

A geared 24 would plod through most things in direct drive and go reasonably briskly on the boring bits between.

If I had only 1 uni from my current fleet, I'd agonise and eventually choose the 29 for its versatility, accepting that it was a little bit slow on the road and a little bit unwieldy on narrow slimy rutted trails. Therefore, a 27.5 with a gear would combine the best of both worlds - roughly as fast as a 36 when needed, almost as nimble as the 24, and with reduced risk of pedal strike.
Mikefule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-25, 04:14 PM   #15
pierrox
Unicyclist
 
pierrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Between Paris, Grenoble, NY and NC
Age: 46
Posts: 1,017
All good info here. And it highlights the main problem of the only available geared hub: the gap between sizes. The 1.5:1 ratio is a bit large and so whichever uni you put a geared hub into, the gap will always be a bit too big to have something perfect in high and in low gear.
In an ideal uni-world, we would have a three gear hub with an extra between those too. Even two speed with 1.3:1 high gear would be more universal I think.

But, the same way there is no such thing as an ideal uni for all, there is not a universal geared uni.

So in the meantime, let's enjoy and ride what we have!
pierrox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
geared, muni, size, wheel


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best wheel size for Muni? gregolopogus General Unicycling Discussions 23 2017-06-01 07:31 PM
Replacement for Tektro Disc Brake for 29" muni- what's the best option? pstrick General Unicycling Discussions 12 2015-08-31 12:08 AM
What size wheel for long-distance on roads Chris Pye General Unicycling Discussions 28 2015-08-27 02:17 AM
What is easiest wheel size to learn on for an adult? slackercruster General Unicycling Discussions 3 2011-04-04 03:09 PM
Geared Uni is not for me--KH29" Muni-hub Schlumpf for sale! Carey General Unicycling Discussions 7 2011-01-23 07:35 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2001-2016 Gilby
Page generated in 0.11541 seconds with 10 queries