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Old 2017-10-30, 07:35 PM   #16
lightbulbjim
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Disc brakes, especially outside the frame, are potential safety hazards: https://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/vent...-giant-knives/ http://www.unicyclist.it/forum_forum...=65&post=16589
The safety concerns have been discussed before but I think they’re blown out of proportion. I’m not going to comment on the peloton issue except to point out that the situation couldn’t be repeated with unicycles because our rotors are mounted behind cranks.

As for that Qu-Ax rotor - using a rotor that looks like a saw blade is asking for trouble. There was a thread on this forum when it happened.

Honestly, a crank-mounted rotor does not feel unsafe to ride. There’s no way you can contact it while pedalling and during most UPDs you’re not falling directly on top of the uni. I would be more worried about injuries from pedal pins than brake rotors.
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Old 2017-10-30, 08:38 PM   #17
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Hi,

From what I know so far, Kris Holm has the best seats and cranks. The wider rim is a great plus. The drilled rims and outside of frame baloney slicer disc brake might be minuses. Disc brakes, especially outside the frame, are potential safety hazards: https://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/vent...-giant-knives/ http://www.unicyclist.it/forum_forum...=65&post=16589
I've seen pictures of similarily bad cuts done by pedals, brake levers punched through hands, and much more on the internet, I don't think disk brakes are particularily bad. You 100x more likely to brake an ankle on an UPD then to get any of these more spectacular injuries.
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Too bad rim brakes don't work as well. Would keep things simpler, lighter, and safer. Is a safety shield available? (more weight cost, etc.) It also seems that you cannot buy ready made the best unicycle hardware without a disk brake installed. I see this on Nimbus and QU AX, no option to not have brakes in the KH Muni. I don't know about other brands.

On KH products it would have been nice to have an option of ordering them without drilled rims and without disk brakes. It would save a few dollars, some weight, etc. I am thinking of going without any brake when I buy a Muni in the future.
If you want to save a few dollars, you don't buy KH, it's as simple as that. Kris Holm aims only at the high end market. I'm pretty sure if you ask Unicycle dot com for a KH without a brake, they'll offer it too, but for a high end Muni, a disk brake is really appropriate. Disk brakes are really expanding the capabilities of a unicycle more than any other part ever could.

Whether you need a brake or not really depends on what you are doing. Most people probably don't need it, if you ride mostly flat trails and have no intention of going down long or very steep hills, you are fine without. But with Downhill, nowadays it's unthinkable to ride at a high level without a disk brake. It offers more control than your legs on steep and slippery trails, relief for your legs on long downhills and takes some of the forces when landing big drops.
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Old 2017-10-31, 05:24 AM   #18
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As for that Qu-Ax rotor - using a rotor that looks like a saw blade is asking for trouble. There was a thread on this forum when it happened.
I sure do not like that Saw blade disk design. One notch against QU AX.
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Old 2017-10-31, 05:41 AM   #19
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I've seen pictures of similarily bad cuts done by pedals, brake levers punched through hands, and much more on the internet, I don't think disk brakes are particularily bad. You 100x more likely to brake an ankle on an UPD then to get any of these more spectacular injuries.

If you want to save a few dollars, you don't buy KH, it's as simple as that. Kris Holm aims only at the high end market. I'm pretty sure if you ask Unicycle dot com for a KH without a brake, they'll offer it too, but for a high end Muni, a disk brake is really appropriate. Disk brakes are really expanding the capabilities of a unicycle more than any other part ever could.

Whether you need a brake or not really depends on what you are doing. Most people probably don't need it, if you ride mostly flat trails and have no intention of going down long or very steep hills, you are fine without. But with Downhill, nowadays it's unthinkable to ride at a high level without a disk brake. It offers more control than your legs on steep and slippery trails, relief for your legs on long downhills and takes some of the forces when landing big drops.
Kris Holm's Unicycles seem to be the best of the best, built the way he likes them, specific for Mountain and Trials. I view his Unicycles as the design pushes performance to the limit. Drilling holes in rims represents doing everything possible for performance and weight reduction.

Drilled rims might be an extra unnecessary expense, does not mean I do not want the best parts I can afford. I would rather have less nooks and crannies for easier cleaning. If the cost is the same for a rim without holes drilled into it and otherwise identical I would choose the undrilled one, or even pay more to get it the way that I want it to be.

I see your points on brakes and control. However, I still think some folks might want a unicycle without a brake, still made with the best parts available. If it is not needed, it saves weight and keeps things simpler.
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Old 2017-10-31, 07:05 AM   #20
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Just in time to make this discussion slightly confusing, KH as announced new rims wider and tubeless ready that are not drilled.

Now, you can focus on which shape and color you prefer for your uni
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Old 2017-10-31, 07:28 AM   #21
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Just in time to make this discussion slightly confusing, KH as announced new rims wider and tubeless ready that are not drilled.

Now, you can focus on which shape and color you prefer for your uni
You can have your KH Uni in any color you want, as long as it is blue...
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Old 2017-10-31, 08:24 AM   #22
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Unicycling is already a niche market, offering products for even more niche markets within that market doesn't make a lot of sense. The people that are really specific about what they want aren't really significant for manufacturers and dealers (I love UDC and most the manufacturers, not trying to talk crap, but I think that is the reality we live in).

If 90% of people who buy upwards of a Nimbus oracle want a disk brake, there is really no market for a model without one.
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Old 2017-10-31, 10:30 AM   #23
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Kris Holm's Unicycles seem to be the best of the best, built the way he likes them, specific for Mountain and Trials. I view his Unicycles as the design pushes performance to the limit. Drilling holes in rims represents doing everything possible for performance and weight reduction.

Drilled rims might be an extra unnecessary expense, does not mean I do not want the best parts I can afford. I would rather have less nooks and crannies for easier cleaning. If the cost is the same for a rim without holes drilled into it and otherwise identical I would choose the undrilled one, or even pay more to get it the way that I want it to be.

I see your points on brakes and control. However, I still think some folks might want a unicycle without a brake, still made with the best parts available. If it is not needed, it saves weight and keeps things simpler.
The steel frame versions of Quax and Nimbus tend not to come with a brake and they are much cheaper. If you don't want a brake you can always go for one of those, they are top-notch unicycles. Nothing wrong with a steel frame: is only a bit heavier than an aluminum frame and also I'm guessing the steel is stronger than alumunium. I've got a Quax 26 muni steel frame, is bomb proof, it is an excellent Unicycle and I ride the same trials I do with my KH 26 (which I bought later on because I wanted to fit the Knard tyre). In most models of the top range Unicycles you are paying mainly for the upgrade to an Aluminum frame (with the disc brake ready mount), sometimes a lighter hub/more confy saddle. The thing is once you add up the extra cost of this upgrades the cost of adding the disc brake to the Unicycle is minimum. The cost of an average/low cost disc brake is minimal (but they have huge braking/modulation perfomance) . Therefore, to me, it makes sense that they fit the disc brake in the top range as default. You can always take it off and put it back on later on if you feel like you need it.
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Old 2017-11-02, 02:55 AM   #24
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The steel frame versions of Quax and Nimbus tend not to come with a brake and they are much cheaper. If you don't want a brake you can always go for one of those, they are top-notch unicycles. Nothing wrong with a steel frame: is only a bit heavier than an aluminum frame and also I'm guessing the steel is stronger than alumunium. I've got a Quax 26 muni steel frame, is bomb proof, it is an excellent Unicycle and I ride the same trials I do with my KH 26 (which I bought later on because I wanted to fit the Knard tyre). In most models of the top range Unicycles you are paying mainly for the upgrade to an Aluminum frame (with the disc brake ready mount), sometimes a lighter hub/more confy saddle. The thing is once you add up the extra cost of this upgrades the cost of adding the disc brake to the Unicycle is minimum. The cost of an average/low cost disc brake is minimal (but they have huge braking/modulation perfomance) . Therefore, to me, it makes sense that they fit the disc brake in the top range as default. You can always take it off and put it back on later on if you feel like you need it.
The more I read about the mechanical design of brakes on a uni, the lower my enthusiasm for them becomes. I like simple symmetrical design and throwing a disk brake system on a unicycle seems to take that away. In this thread http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=114458 I read how disc brakes make wheel building much more complex. More things to break while riding, etc. Some complaints about difficult maintenence proceedures. Too bad rim brakes don't seem to work all that well, as they do not interfere with the symmetry and simplicity of the rest of the uni. removing the brake system will leave you with unsymetrical parts.



I guess the thing to have is Muni's with disk brakes for steep hill days. For flatter riding, custom made units with better parts than off the shelf offerings without brakes. Gives you a backup ride in case you damage your disc braked ride and fixing it gets complicated. I guess eventually I will probably eventually end up with a small fleet of very light brakeless tubeless titanium unicycles.

I am sure that eventually better brake systems will be available.
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Old 2017-11-02, 11:43 AM   #25
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In our Muni group internal and external discs are used. All of the unis get flying around, same as the riders. I have not seen damaged discs or hurt ankles form the disc. Both versions work fine in practice. Choose what you like. As for the brake itself: A closed hydraulic system is almost maintenance free. Of course you will have to replace pads at a certain point, however that takes ages on a Muni.

For the rim I also do not like holes in them. There can be significant weight saving by making disc rims, as they do not need the thick sidewalls for the rim brake. This is what KH did on the new 2017 rims in 27,5 and 29 size (without holes). You can also check the MTB market for rims, however most of them are 32H (spoke holes) versions, while Munis typically have 36H.
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Old 2017-11-02, 12:27 PM   #26
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Disc brakes, especially outside the frame, are potential safety hazards: https://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/vent...-giant-knives/ http://www.unicyclist.it/forum_forum...=65&post=16589
As long as you don't use the old chainsaw-like rotors from qu-ax (that caused the injury in the Italian forum it's no problem. When my leg got caught by the rotor (only once in 4 years), only the skin was cut a little and not more. As slow as a unicycle wheel turns, the rotor has to be very very sharp to really cut deep. I now have two munis with outboard disc brakes and would not hesitate to chose it for my next one ...
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Old 2017-11-02, 02:06 PM   #27
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I sure do not like that Saw blade disk design. One notch against QU AX.
They're not using this rotors any more.
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Old 2017-11-02, 02:22 PM   #28
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The more I read about the mechanical design of brakes on a uni, the lower my enthusiasm for them becomes. I like simple symmetrical design and throwing a disk brake system on a unicycle seems to take that away. In this thread http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=114458 I read how disc brakes make wheel building much more complex. More things to break while riding, etc. Some complaints about difficult maintenence proceedures. Too bad rim brakes don't seem to work all that well, as they do not interfere with the symmetry and simplicity of the rest of the uni. removing the brake system will leave you with unsymetrical parts.
If you're searching for the evil, you will find it in everything.

If you take and outboard disc, your Wheel will still be symmetrical and the only unsymmetrical part is a tab on the frame and 6 little knobs with threaded hole in your right crank, when you remove the brake system. And if not: every (E-V-E-R-Y-!) bicycle rear wheel is not symmetrical! Nothing wrong with this. Why shall a rim brake be more simple? Brake performance and rubbing with rim brakes is affected by wheel truing, wheel flax, frame flex, mud on the rim, ... Setting up a rim brake is not easier than to set up a disc brake. both are hydraulic brakes, nearly no maintenance, only changing pads. Couldn't be any easier, hum? And for the pic: You can also destroy pedals, cranks, rims, tires, spokes, tubes, frames, seatposts and seat when you crash hard. So I'd suggest: remove all those parts and go for a walk, if you want it really simple.
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Old 2017-11-02, 03:00 PM   #29
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Less engineering and more riding.
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Old 2017-11-02, 04:03 PM   #30
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They're not using this rotors any more.
I was looking into buying a previous generation new old stock, I think it might have that disc on it. Good on them for "disc"ontinuing it.
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