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Old 2018-01-20, 12:51 PM   #31
Up Rite
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The Men who made us fat:




The Men who made us spend, playlist of 3 videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82z7...CZ6KmWiVEQ8Cw5
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Old 2018-01-20, 02:02 PM   #32
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Scientists in health related areas are not controlled by big business, the scientists doing the research are most often at universities not funded by big business at all. Usually their funding is from government grants or university grants (at least in Australia anyway)
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Are you sure about that? Privatization of educational institutions is happening almost everywhere. I don’t know much about Australia, but I would be surprised -stunned, in fact- to hear that it has avoided this trend.
+1

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In theory specialists who are meant to improve your health would ensure long term business by not doing so, however they don't need to do that because almost everyone struggles to consistently do what needs to be done (eat better and move more).
Eating better helps, moving more to lose weight is a falsehood that has been disproven by science. Obese adults and children move less than their peers. It has been proven that today children are every bit as active as they have ever been. Obese children of today, and days gone by, move less than their lighter peers.

Moving more in a very obese person has a minimal effect on bodyweight, but it helps and should be done, without overdoing it. It makes a much bigger difference in a light weight person because they are physically capable of moving more.

A lean person who is extremely active can get away with a bad diet eating more crap as they are more able to burn it off. If they become a heavy person they can't just exercise it off. They have to be careful not to over do exercise and avoid injuries and burnout. They also have to make sure they are eating properly, and deal with any other medical issue that could be making the problem worse.

It needs to be done patiently over a long period of time or there could be a weight rebound or damage to the persons metabolic system as happened to many that were on reality weight loss TV shows with moronic psycho trainers yelling at them.

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Add to that the fact that there are millions of people per health specialist and you can see why there is no need to keep people unhealthy.
Australia, with one of the highest rates of obesity in the world has milions of people per health specialist?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Australia

Things must be far different than I expected in Australia.

Canada with around 36 million people in 2014 has around 40,000 general practioners and approximately 28,000 medical specialists, and there is considered to be a shortage of all of them. Approximately one medical specialist for every 1,500 people.

https://www.cma.ca/Assets/assets-lib...nce-2014-e.pdf
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Old 2018-01-20, 02:14 PM   #33
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Oh well, unicycling is light to moderate exercise for me, unless I climb hills or hop up a lot of stairs, so it hasn't had a noticeable impact on my fitness level or -when needed- weight loss. An intense daily game of soccer or basketball would probably get you into better shape.
When I was young Soccer was something I looked into and decided to avoid. My impression was that there were a lot of wrecked knees from that sport. I am more into individual than team sports, and Unicycling just kills me at the moment, because I am too big. I do various calisthenics, bodyweight, punching bag, and hiking etc. Avoiding lifting weights, to get into new things after all these years, so I took up war clubs and the kettlebell.
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Old 2018-01-20, 02:53 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Up Rite View Post
+1
Again, we have 38 public universities and 3 private.

LEFT][/LEFT]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Up Rite View Post
Eating better helps, moving more to lose weight is a falsehood that has been disproven by science. Obese adults and children move less than their peers. It has been proven that today children are every bit as active as they have ever been. Obese children of today, and days gone by, move less than their lighter peers.

Moving more in a very obese person has a minimal effect on bodyweight, but it helps and should be done, without overdoing it. It makes a much bigger difference in a light weight person because they are physically capable of moving more.

A lean person who is extremely active can get away with a bad diet eating more crap as they are more able to burn it off. If they become a heavy person they can't just exercise it off. They have to be careful not to over do exercise and avoid injuries and burnout. They also have to make sure they are eating properly, and deal with any other medical issue that could be making the problem worse.

It needs to be done patiently over a long period of time or there could be a weight rebound or damage to the persons metabolic system as happened to many that were on reality weight loss TV shows with moronic psycho trainers yelling at them.
Yes I agree, it is near impossible to out exercise a bad diet. Table pushaways are the best form of exercise for losing weight.


LEFT][/LEFT]
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Originally Posted by Up Rite View Post
Australia, with one of the highest rates of obesity in the world has milions of people per health specialist?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Australia

Things must be far different than I expected in Australia.

Canada with around 36 million people in 2014 has around 40,000 general practioners and approximately 28,000 medical specialists, and there is considered to be a shortage of all of them. Approximately one medical specialist for every 1,500 people.

https://www.cma.ca/Assets/assets-lib...nce-2014-e.pdf
You are actually agreeing with me here. Your conspiracy theory was that health professionals keep you fat on purpose so that you have to come back and see them as there is no money in healing people.

I made the point that there is no need for them to do that as there are millions of fat people and few health professionals in comparison. In your words "1500 per health specialist". My point was that your conspiracy theory makes no sense as you could fix 90% of your patients and it is still unlikely that you will run out of new patients. But thank you for stating my point with facts. Very helpful
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Old 2018-01-20, 02:55 PM   #35
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Unicycling just kills me at the moment, because I am too big.
Not sure it's just the "too big" that kills you. While Song is right that it's a rather low impact sport (unless you jump up some stairs or do muni in the mud), he forgets that during the learning phase, the amount of wasted energy (due to arms flapping around, and more than anything being incredibly tense figuring out how to stand on that thing) is insanely high!
When I first learnt, I would be soaked in sweat within 15mns of getting on the thing and riding it. The first mile had me lying down catching my breath and cooling my burning calves.
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Old 2018-01-21, 08:18 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Pinoclean View Post
Again, we have 38 public universities and 3 private.

LEFT][/LEFT]

Yes I agree, it is near impossible to out exercise a bad diet. Table pushaways are the best form of exercise for losing weight.


LEFT][/LEFT]

You are actually agreeing with me here. Your conspiracy theory was that health professionals keep you fat on purpose so that you have to come back and see them as there is no money in healing people.

I made the point that there is no need for them to do that as there are millions of fat people and few health professionals in comparison. In your words "1500 per health specialist". My point was that your conspiracy theory makes no sense as you could fix 90% of your patients and it is still unlikely that you will run out of new patients. But thank you for stating my point with facts. Very helpful
NO I am not agreeing with your ridiculous previous statement, which was that is was a fact that there are millions of people per health professional. Your words. You contradicted your false statement and then said you agree with me.
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Old 2018-01-21, 08:27 PM   #37
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I saw a box of cereal in a store with "Reccommended by Dieticians" on the package. The listed unnecessary harmful ingredients included:sugar (the number 2 ingredient), molasses, brown sugar syrup, and salt. It was Kellogg's All Bran Multi grain crunch. I found some other Cereals by Post and Muesli without any sugar or salt or other garbage added.

Anyone trying to improve their health or lose weight is far better off to avoid this "Dieticians Reccommended" product and look for the better options out there.
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Old 2018-01-21, 09:32 PM   #38
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Not sure it's just the "too big" that kills you. While Song is right that it's a rather low impact sport (unless you jump up some stairs or do muni in the mud), he forgets that during the learning phase, the amount of wasted energy (due to arms flapping around, and more than anything being incredibly tense figuring out how to stand on that thing) is insanely high!
When I first learnt, I would be soaked in sweat within 15mns of getting on the thing and riding it. The first mile had me lying down catching my breath and cooling my burning calves.
Think of what it might have been like with at least another 100lb of bodyweight, or double your bodyweight. Once you get the hang of this, and can relax with it then it should not be too tough.

All that arm flailing, sure is a great, but short lived aerobic workout at the moment.

I am working on losing both fat and muscle. After I get my bodyfat low, I will think about whether or not I want to get some of it back. Muscle is very heavy especially when it is in the wrong place.

I do eventually intend to get into Muni. If Muni was not a viable option I would be much less enthusiastic about doing this.

Looks like I am getting a break in the weather, time to get ready to head out.
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Old 2018-01-21, 11:06 PM   #39
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The low carb fad being pushed was very harmful to me.

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Originally Posted by Up Rite View Post
I saw a box of cereal in a store with "Reccommended by Dieticians" on the package. The listed unnecessary harmful ingredients included:sugar (the number 2 ingredient), molasses, brown sugar syrup, and salt. It was Kellogg's All Bran Multi grain crunch. I found some other Cereals by Post and Muesli without any sugar or salt or other garbage added.

Anyone trying to improve their health or lose weight is far better off to avoid this "Dieticians Reccommended" product and look for the better options out there.
I guess if the dietitians are recommending that cereal they aren't recommending low carb diets then

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NO I am not agreeing with your ridiculous previous statement, which was that is was a fact that there are millions of people per health professional. Your words. You contradicted your false statement and then said you agree with me.
The term "millions" was hyperbole, my point was that there are a large number of general public per health professional, you agreed with that. You said 1500 per health professional in Canada I think it was?

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Scientists in anything health related cannot be trusted. They are far from honest, if they are, they are quickly out of work and blacklisted. They are controlled by big business with billions of dollars at stake. Having sick people degenerating from eating crap and going to hospitals and popping pills is good for their business, not for us.
My second point is that the large number of general public per health professional is the reason that health professionals don't need to ensure you stay fat for their business to continue. There are a large number of patients per health professional.

Assuming one health professional who worked 38 hours per week and saw each of those 1500 people just 10 times to get them healthy (you cant lose weight and get fit overnight). That means it would take 394 weeks for the health professional to see all his 1500 for their ten sessions. Divide 394 by a 48 working week year and that is 8 years before he sees all his 1500 x 10 times. In 8 years you will have more patients or people who may have been healthy before but are no longer so you likely have another 1500 patients made up of new/relapsed cases at that point.

So again why does he need to give false information to keep you unhealthy?

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Old Today, 06:52 PM   #40
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Again, we have 38 public universities and 3 private.
And at those public universities, the budget increasingly relies on student fees instead of state funding, right? And the cafeterias, maintenance and book stores are more and more run by private corporations rather than the university, and medical research on campus is more and more funded by private industry, and the researchers are flown to international conferences -sometimes in very scenic locations- by pharmaceutical corporations and the food industry, and they are given all sorts of little gifts and trinkets for their labs and their offices, and taken to lunch by industry representatives, and paid for their research by the industry. And there are Australian medical researchers who sign their names to articles ghostwritten by industry, right?

Established medical journals have identified these conflicts of interest as serious and widespread problems, at least in Canada and the US.
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Old Today, 09:16 PM   #41
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Conflicts of interest among medical researchers are real, but they're far less prevalent than the conflicts of interests amongst people hawking New Age herbal hoo-hah, "medical" marijuana, or god forbid, homeopathy.

In particular, academic researchers are deeply acculturated to criticize each other's research. That means that, over time, the corpus of medical research gets improved, because results which cannot be replicated get criticized out, even if individual researchers support them. For example, a faculty member at Berkeley (Peter Duesberg), a once-respected virologist, got on an idea that AIDS was not caused by HIV, which in the mid-1980s was a perfectly legitimate question to ask. He, personally, is still stuck on the idea, but his research has been pretty thoroughly disproven. Academic knowledge has advanced past him, as it has advanced past the idea that vaccines cause autism (a claim pushed by a huckster for his own personal interest).

Science works. In fits and starts, human knowledge moves forward. The fact that scientific understanding of complex phenomena like human health continues to change is part of the process.

Now, laypeople tend to have a poor understanding of the scientific process, and often get fixated on a specific claim that they want to believe, as Mugabe did with Duesberg's claim, or Jenny McCarthy with vaccines, or various conservative nutjobs with a paper in the 1970s that talked about global cooling. And the effects of the way those people distort what science is telling is can be devastating. Thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands died in Zimbabwe because of Mugabe's policies.

You can't trust every scientist. But in general, you can trust science more than just about anything else.
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Old Today, 11:00 PM   #42
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And at those public universities, the budget increasingly relies on student fees instead of state funding, right?
I would have to look into how much of funding is students and how much is goverment but if I was to take a guess I would imagine that majority of funding is paid by students. Most PhD students get a scholarship from the goverment to complete their research.

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and medical research on campus is more and more funded by private industry, and the researchers are flown to international conferences -sometimes in very scenic locations- by pharmaceutical corporations and the food industry, and they are given all sorts of little gifts and trinkets for their labs and their offices, and taken to lunch by industry representatives, and paid for their research by the industry. And there are Australian medical researchers who sign their names to articles ghostwritten by industry, right?

Established medical journals have identified these conflicts of interest as serious and widespread problems, at least in Canada and the US.

That is largely false. I have met no professors/lecturers who get flown anywhere by outside corporations. Usually I would say they don't get flown to many at all even by their university. Given gifts and trinkets by industry representatives? Again I would disagree.
Sign their names to ghostwritten articles I would say I've never seen that and very much doubt this exists in any scale above marginal in Australian universities. Of all the research I have seen completed by a number of researchers in the last 5 years, only one had an industry grant. The majority of others were university grants or government grants from the Australian Research Council..

However my area is exercise science, we get no equipment for free and are usually forced to pay more than something is worth for our equipment. So maybe the companies don't care about us.

I am sure it happens on a tiny scale, as much as you get corruption in other business. My experience in universities is far from anything you describe though.
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