Unicyclist Community

Go Back   Unicyclist Community > Unicycling Discussion > General Unicycling Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 2017-11-26, 04:54 AM   #1
Up Rite
There can only be ONE!
 
Up Rite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Wet West Canada, for now...
Posts: 297
My dumb question about geared hubs

OK here goes.

Instead of a gearing up from 1:1, why not have it on a larger wheel 1:1 and 1: 0.65?

Would it have good rollover and climbing on a big wheel?

Or perhaps soon someone will come up with a better multi gear solution than the schlumf.
__________________


Human gyroscope in training.

Up Rite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 05:13 AM   #2
Mikefule
Bridge of Otherwhere: on Kindle
 
Mikefule's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Long Bennington, Lincolnshire, England.
Posts: 7,148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Up Rite View Post
OK here goes.

Instead of a gearing up from 1:1, why not have it on a larger wheel 1:1 and 1: 0.65?

Would it have good rollover and climbing on a big wheel?

Or perhaps soon someone will come up with a better multi gear solution than the schlumf.
Possibly because of the greater demand for speed. Road riders, commuters and tourists like to cover distance quickly. XC/muni riders like to get to, from or between the tricky sections with a minimum of delay.

Gear a wheel down and all you gain is the ability to climb steeper hills, or to do steeper descents without a brake. On the whole, a larger wheel is less manoeuvrable on tight and twisty stuff and at very low speed.

Therefore, as a general rule, the option to go faster than direct drive would allow is more attractive than the option to go slower.
__________________
My first novel, Bridge of Otherwhere, Michael Wilkinson, on Kindle. A tale of subtle magic, mystery, friendship and love. Tinyurl.com/Bridge-of-Otherwhere For US$ page: TinyURL.com/OtherwhereBridge
Mikefule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 05:53 AM   #3
harper
768 - It's in your DNA
 
harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Age: 66
Posts: 9,130
In a simple epicyclic unicycle hub it is technically more difficult to run in reduced gear mode. I haven't given much thought to reduced gear operation with compound gearing and don't even know if it's possible. Compound gearing, however, is the only way to get increased gear ratios over 2.
__________________
-Greg Harper

Destroying the climate by shutting down nuclear power plants, one by one, since 1979.

Change is good. Bills are better.

Last edited by harper; 2017-11-26 at 05:56 AM.
harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 07:50 AM   #4
Mikefule
Bridge of Otherwhere: on Kindle
 
Mikefule's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Long Bennington, Lincolnshire, England.
Posts: 7,148
Quote:
Originally Posted by harper View Post
In a simple epicyclic unicycle hub it is technically more difficult to run in reduced gear mode. I haven't given much thought to reduced gear operation with compound gearing and don't even know if it's possible. Compound gearing, however, is the only way to get increased gear ratios over 2.
The Sturmey Archer 3 speed had one set of sun and planet gears, and a sliding clutch to choose the input and output. That gave you direct drive in 2nd, with (direct plus a third) in 3rd and (direct minus a quarter) in 1st.

Closer ratio hubs were also available, but the "plus a third, minus a quarter" set up was at one time the most popular gearing solution for bicycles in the UK.
__________________
My first novel, Bridge of Otherwhere, Michael Wilkinson, on Kindle. A tale of subtle magic, mystery, friendship and love. Tinyurl.com/Bridge-of-Otherwhere For US$ page: TinyURL.com/OtherwhereBridge
Mikefule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 11:52 AM   #5
pierrox
Unicyclist
 
pierrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Between Paris, Grenoble, NY and NC
Age: 47
Posts: 1,185
Bouin-bouin has been developing a geared hub for a while, though I haven't heard any news lately. His idea was to do that indeed: a lower gear, a 1:1 and a high gear. With the idea to have it in a 36" wheel.
pierrox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 01:51 PM   #6
Vogelfrei80
Beginner
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefule View Post
The Sturmey Archer 3 speed had one set of sun and planet gears, and a sliding clutch to choose the input and output. That gave you direct drive in 2nd, with (direct plus a third) in 3rd and (direct minus a quarter) in 1st.

Closer ratio hubs were also available, but the "plus a third, minus a quarter" set up was at one time the most popular gearing solution for bicycles in the UK.
I tought about using it on my huni-rex: low gear about 31" virtual; direct drive 42"' virtual; high gear 56". But I cannot find a way to use sprocket on the left side of the hub. Left side hub spins geared while the sprocket on the right goes direct. Do you know if ever existed a geared fixed hub useful for a double chain giraffe or a huni-rex?
Vogelfrei80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 02:24 PM   #7
wobbling bear
GranPa goes-a-wobblin'
 
wobbling bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: European Union (S-W)
Age: 70
Posts: 2,457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefule View Post
Therefore, as a general rule, the option to go faster than direct drive would allow is more attractive than the option to go slower.
the reverse is true in my case: as I practice only muni , I don't care to go quickly but climbing steep hills with a muni are a nightmare (though I am a pretty good climber with a MTB ) ! I crave for a reduced speed geared hub.
__________________
One Wheel : bear necessity
(Abuello RodoMancat)
wobbling bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 02:26 PM   #8
Kitibob
The Cheapskate Unicyclist
 
Kitibob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Aberystwyth (term time), otherwise Carlisle (UK)
Age: 19
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vogelfrei80 View Post
I tought about using it on my huni-rex: low gear about 31" virtual; direct drive 42"' virtual; high gear 56". But I cannot find a way to use sprocket on the left side of the hub. Left side hub spins geared while the sprocket on the right goes direct. Do you know if ever existed a geared fixed hub useful for a double chain giraffe or a huni-rex?
I'm not sure I fully understand but I did some drawings of a setup which would have 2 gears: 1:1 and then another higher gear with a jackshaft - but i've left them at home.
__________________
20", 24" with Muni tyre, Nimbus Nightrider 36"

If you're ever feeling down about your skills in unicycling feel free to watch my unicycle videos:

https://www.youtube.com/user/KitibobOutdoors
Kitibob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 02:29 PM   #9
Mikefule
Bridge of Otherwhere: on Kindle
 
Mikefule's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Long Bennington, Lincolnshire, England.
Posts: 7,148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vogelfrei80 View Post
I tought about using it on my huni-rex: low gear about 31" virtual; direct drive 42"' virtual; high gear 56". But I cannot find a way to use sprocket on the left side of the hub. Left side hub spins geared while the sprocket on the right goes direct. Do you know if ever existed a geared fixed hub useful for a double chain giraffe or a huni-rex?
I think a small number of close ratio fixed 3 speed hubs were made, probably back in the 1950s or thereabouts. At one time they had quote an extensive range. I remember when the derailleur "5 speed" was an exciting new idea. Before that, the choice was single speed or Sturmey Archer - at least for ordinary people wanting bikes for normal use.

However, Wikipedia shows that they reintroduced a 3 speed fixed hub in 2009:

<<Three-speed fixed gear hub[edit]
In 2009 Sunrace Sturmey-Archer re-introduced a three-speed fixed gear hub, the S3X.[11] This gives ratios of 100/75/62.5 (i.e. the top gear is direct drive and the others are geared down from it) and the internals are based on the newest five-speed freewheel hub (in the same way as the original fixed ASC was based on the contemporary FC four-speed hub).>>

£193 (193 GBP) https://www.bicyclehero.com/gb/sturm...SABEgKOKfD_BwE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturme...fixed_gear_hub
__________________
My first novel, Bridge of Otherwhere, Michael Wilkinson, on Kindle. A tale of subtle magic, mystery, friendship and love. Tinyurl.com/Bridge-of-Otherwhere For US$ page: TinyURL.com/OtherwhereBridge
Mikefule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 03:14 PM   #10
harper
768 - It's in your DNA
 
harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Age: 66
Posts: 9,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefule View Post
The Sturmey Archer 3 speed had one set of sun and planet gears, and a sliding clutch to choose the input and output. That gave you direct drive in 2nd, with (direct plus a third) in 3rd and (direct minus a quarter) in 1st.
The Sturmey Archer (not a unicycle hub) had the tremendous advantages of being chain-driven and requiring no reverse torque limit. It also didn't need to have a stout drive shaft running right through the center of the mechanism. This provides a lot of flexibility in the gear connection order.
__________________
-Greg Harper

Destroying the climate by shutting down nuclear power plants, one by one, since 1979.

Change is good. Bills are better.
harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 03:53 PM   #11
Mikefule
Bridge of Otherwhere: on Kindle
 
Mikefule's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Long Bennington, Lincolnshire, England.
Posts: 7,148
Quote:
Originally Posted by harper View Post
The Sturmey Archer (not a unicycle hub) had the tremendous advantages of being chain-driven and requiring no reverse torque limit. It also didn't need to have a stout drive shaft running right through the center of the mechanism. This provides a lot of flexibility in the gear connection order.
Although, as you will see upthread, they also made "fixed" versions which did have to cope with torque in both directions. Point is not that the production model would be suitable for a unicycle, but that the concept is theoretically possible.
__________________
My first novel, Bridge of Otherwhere, Michael Wilkinson, on Kindle. A tale of subtle magic, mystery, friendship and love. Tinyurl.com/Bridge-of-Otherwhere For US$ page: TinyURL.com/OtherwhereBridge
Mikefule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 05:26 PM   #12
harper
768 - It's in your DNA
 
harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Age: 66
Posts: 9,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefule View Post
Although, as you will see upthread, they also made "fixed" versions which did have to cope with torque in both directions. Point is not that the production model would be suitable for a unicycle, but that the concept is theoretically possible.
I'm sure we're on the same page, Mike. I know that S-A made fixed 3-speed and a fixed 2-speed hubs. I don't know if they were used widely or if they were successful or mechanically reliable. The freewheeling S-A bicycle hubs were wildly successful and popular. I do know that the backlash exhibited by multi-speed, fixed-gear epicyclic hubs is unacceptable for use on a unicycle whereas it would not even be an inconvenience on a bicycle. I will concede that reduced gear epicyclic hubs for unicycles are theoretically possible but I also know what the engineering gymnastics are that are required to realize it.
__________________
-Greg Harper

Destroying the climate by shutting down nuclear power plants, one by one, since 1979.

Change is good. Bills are better.

Last edited by harper; 2017-11-26 at 05:28 PM.
harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 05:33 PM   #13
Up Rite
There can only be ONE!
 
Up Rite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Wet West Canada, for now...
Posts: 297
I see a few others here would go for a geared down hub.

So how would a 24" with current gearing up be compared to a 36" geared down in various situations?

I would like to see if Schlumpf or someone else can come up with a 3 speed hub with direct, fast and low gearing, the shifting being done by grabbing a lever under the seat instead of clicking the heals.

That would add a lot of potential options for unicycling.
__________________


Human gyroscope in training.

Up Rite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 08:35 PM   #14
bouin-bouin
Didier
 
bouin-bouin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: France in Europe (Le Chesnay - Yvelines)
Age: 52
Posts: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrox View Post
Bouin-bouin has been developing a geared hub for a while, though I haven't heard any news lately. His idea was to do that indeed: a lower gear, a 1:1 and a high gear. With the idea to have it in a 36" wheel.

Still under 3D design but no recent progress
It has been presented somewhere in this forum, Greg Harper made some comments at this time. I had long discussion with Florian at Brixen Unicon and he confirmed the right concept
__________________
http://monocycle.info
http://www.leblogdumonocycle.fr/
CITY XTP 26", MUNI KH26" & KH29", ROAD Oracle 32" and KH36"
my goal : a 3 geared 29" to have only one uni for all kind of rides :-)
bouin-bouin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-11-26, 09:11 PM   #15
Vogelfrei80
Beginner
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefule View Post
I think a small number of close ratio fixed 3 speed hubs were made, probably back in the 1950s or thereabouts. At one time they had quote an extensive range. I remember when the derailleur "5 speed" was an exciting new idea. Before that, the choice was single speed or Sturmey Archer - at least for ordinary people wanting bikes for normal use.

However, Wikipedia shows that they reintroduced a 3 speed fixed hub in 2009:

<<Three-speed fixed gear hub[edit]
In 2009 Sunrace Sturmey-Archer re-introduced a three-speed fixed gear hub, the S3X.[11] This gives ratios of 100/75/62.5 (i.e. the top gear is direct drive and the others are geared down from it) and the internals are based on the newest five-speed freewheel hub (in the same way as the original fixed ASC was based on the contemporary FC four-speed hub).>>

£193 (193 GBP) https://www.bicyclehero.com/gb/sturm...SABEgKOKfD_BwE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturme...fixed_gear_hub
Already know about that but as I said before it has a splined driver only on the right side! My crancks are not connected each other directly. They use 2 chains each per side to drive the hub
IF ANYONE KNOWS A FIXED GEARED HUB DRIVEN BY BOTH SIDE I'LL BUY IT AND TEST IT FOR YOU. ...I'm gonna open a new thread
Vogelfrei80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dumb, geared, hubs, question


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dumb question about spacers UniJack General Unicycling Discussions 3 2013-06-22 12:30 PM
Question about UDC hubs... Killian Unicycle Product Reviews 4 2011-11-26 12:15 AM
Question about hubs and The Big One Micah Trading Post 6 2011-11-03 07:24 PM
question on geared hubs einrad101 General Unicycling Discussions 8 2008-06-30 03:39 PM
geared hubs Trevor Pearce-Jones General Unicycling Discussions 1 2000-02-10 11:23 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2001-2016 Gilby
Page generated in 0.11606 seconds with 10 queries