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Old 2020-01-23, 01:51 AM   #16
Gockie
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Originally Posted by Pinoclean View Post
This actually seems like a really good idea. I might have a look at this also when I have time.
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Old 2020-01-23, 01:54 AM   #17
lobbybopster
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I've been welding for a long time, but with no training. Started with a wire feed (flux core) welder, stick welder, brazing, steel mig, then aluminum mig and soon, tig, when I have time. I wanted to take a course, too at the local trade school, mainly just for tig, but it didn't happen yet.

Most people can figure out mig welding with no training by just doing it. But it's not a small investment, between the machine, & gas.
For what you'll pay to own a tank and a decent mig, you can buy 1/2 to 3/4 of whatever unicycle you want, if they make it.


My suggestion, would be to learn to weld if you're going to use it for other purposes, like art, car repair, building things, etc. I use mine all the time. On your way to learning , you'll likely develop enough skill to learn to do mild steel on a unicycle frame.

I can only give my opinion on TIG, so take it with skepticism, because I haven't fired mine up yet. With tig, same thing, between the gas and the machine $$$, you might just want to buy a premade uni. From what I heard, Tig is more of a skill that MIG, so learning on chrome moly will be even more expensive , requiring more skill, and different gas than mig (steel)

We learned uni, so we can all certainly learn to weld... you just need some money for a good machine... and other tools, and time.
I agree with your point on welding skills, well worth while. Also I agree with your warning about the cost, $$$$$$$ of equiptment and suplies. So I advise you who are interested to take the courses, learn with thier machine and suplies and then after your 2nd. 3rd. or 4th custom muni frame, hub, and suspension system, You may just own a system that doesn't really cost all that much. And the Satisfaction!
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Old 2020-01-23, 09:37 AM   #18
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I’ve now paid, so I’m enrolled!
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Old 2020-01-24, 04:55 AM   #19
lobbybopster
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The welding course.

Good for you Gockie, Show us what you make. It is a new skill you will enjoy.
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Old 2020-01-25, 10:31 AM   #20
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Sounds like fun always good to learn new skills. I'd like to know how to weld myself, my Dad is really good at it. He made a trailer for his car years ago and something to lift engines out of cars.
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Old 2020-01-26, 10:17 AM   #21
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Sounds like fun always good to learn new skills. I'd like to know how to weld myself, my Dad is really good at it. He made a trailer for his car years ago and something to lift engines out of cars.
Nice! Go see him and learn
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Old 2020-01-26, 10:54 AM   #22
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The fundamental process of welding revolves around the puddle. This is where the metal is molten. Whatever the source of the heat, you eat way at the edge of that puddle while making sure you don't get too far ahead and end up with metal in the bead that hasn't been melted. These places form crevices where oxides get included and cracks can propagate.

The puddle should just reach to the other side of the material being welded.

It is a really satisfying process when done well.
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Old 2020-02-02, 04:31 PM   #23
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Old 2020-02-11, 10:43 AM   #24
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Did our first welding tonight! 7 weeks to go. First week was all about safety, tonight we got to do something!

Here's a sample. (Hope you can see it). Stick welding MMA (Manual metal arc)

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbi...&ref=bookmarks

A couple of comments
1. Table is dirty!
2. The metal was lumpy to begin with (it was used by another student before to put 2 pieces together)
3 . I had no idea the metal would get so hot. Even with thick leather gloves on, I could feel the heat through the gloves.
4. Getting the second stick stuck on the metal was a worry! It wouldn't came off, and then I was thinking, heck, what can I do? (I'm afraid of being electrocuted or everything overheating!) Eventually I switched the machine off, then consulted with another student on what to do and he said to twist the rod if it gets stuck. No more stuck rods.

Other than that, any comments?
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Old 2020-02-11, 01:59 PM   #25
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Yes, things get hot. I learned that at around eight years old when I picked up something my father had just been welding (bare hands of course), that is the fairly direct way of learning than kind of sticks with you through life...

There shouldn't be much risk of electrocution with a stuck rod, overheating is a reasonable risk, if you leave it too long you can get the whole rod red hot, which is not good.

Twisting the rod to get it off it is stuck is the way to do it, just watch you don't chip off a lot of the flux from the end of the rod. If you do you probably should go and burn the end off until you get back to a non-chipped end (just arc it onto somewhere to burn it off, this is one reason why earth clamps get covered in weld...)
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Old 2020-02-12, 07:46 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Gockie View Post
3 . I had no idea the metal would get so hot. Even with thick leather gloves on, I could feel the heat through the gloves.
The arc is about 3000 degrees or more. The puddle is about 1500 degrees. (Celsius) The whole job gets hot pretty quickly.

Quote:
4. Getting the second stick stuck on the metal was a worry! It wouldn't came off, and then I was thinking, heck, what can I do? (I'm afraid of being electrocuted or everything overheating!) Eventually I switched the machine off, then consulted with another student on what to do and he said to twist the rod if it gets stuck. No more stuck rods.
Depending on the welder technology, during the short circuit the current is quite high. Not a good idea to flick the power switch at this point.

There is a risk of shock. The open circuit voltage is usually about 80 volts. The operator is usually sweaty so has low skin resistance.
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Old 2020-02-12, 10:05 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by OneTrackMind View Post
The arc is about 3000 degrees or more. The puddle is about 1500 degrees. (Celsius) The whole job gets hot pretty quickly.



Depending on the welder technology, during the short circuit the current is quite high. Not a good idea to flick the power switch at this point.

There is a risk of shock. The open circuit voltage is usually about 80 volts. The operator is usually sweaty so has low skin resistance.
When I had no other idea of how to unstick the rod, I ended up standing away from it all and turned the machine off at the wall, I believe there’s a circuit breaker there.
(I wasn’t even sure what dial on the machine turns it off!)

With the heat, I most certainly could feel it even come through my overalls.

Anyway, no injuries, just happiness
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Old 2020-02-12, 11:21 AM   #28
OneTrackMind
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Originally Posted by Gockie View Post
Here's a sample. (Hope you can see it). Stick welding MMA (Manual metal arc)

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbi...&ref=bookmarks

Other than that, any comments?
It is pretty hard to tell exactly what you ran and what was already there. I assume yours are the shiny looking ones. Not bad for a first go and some parts were better than others so I guess you were improving.

I'd say you probably need to go a bit slower to get more heat into the work as the bead is sitting up from the surface. Possibly a little bit more current too. It is a bit hard to tell looking at a 2D image.

Beginners often get impatient and move too fast on autopilot instead of focusing on what is happening at the edge the puddle. It is all about the puddle.

Let the arc melt into the work piece and form a puddle that penetrates well into the surface before you start moving off. Then make sure the edge you are working into is melting and joining the puddle not just melting the rod onto the surface. The bead should flow tangentially into the surface with a concave radius rather than sit out perpendicular.

If the bead is undercutting the material then the current is too high but you are not likely to get this happen just laying a bead on a flat surface.

It is hard until you get the fine motor skill to control the tip precisely while maintaining the right arc length but eat into the work piece at the edge of the puddle by moving the rod tip in little semicircles. The puddle is round and you follow its edge fairly precisely without missing melting any of the metal.

The puddle also needs to be big enough and stay molten long enough for the slag to float to the surface otherwise you get flux inclusions. The depth of penetration and the width are related. A thin bead is a shallow bead.

Listen to the arc. You can tell a lot about what is going on by the sound. It sounds different when the arc is connecting to already molten metal. It gets unstable when the arc is too long. I've even welded in inaccessible places where I couldn't see what I was doing by guiding the rod using the corner that was being joined and listening to the sound. I wouldn't say it was great join but it was good enough for purpose and saved hours of work removing the tray from the truck to repair it.

I quite liked the old choke welders with the magnetic shunt current control that rattled and hummed. You could tell when it was going to be a good weld because the hum was steady with strong a fundamental tone.
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Last edited by OneTrackMind; 2020-02-12 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 2020-02-12, 11:25 AM   #29
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I had no other idea of how to unstick the rod,
That should have been covered before you struck your first arc.
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Old 2020-02-12, 08:03 PM   #30
Gockie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTrackMind View Post
That should have been covered before you struck your first arc.
It was, twist your rod 90 degrees to unstick it. But I wasnt sure why the 90 degree turn was needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTrackMind View Post
It is pretty hard to tell exactly what you ran and what was already there. I assume yours are the shiny looking ones. Not bad for a first go and some parts were better than others so I guess you were improving.

I'd say you probably need to go a bit slower to get more heat into the work as the bead is sitting up from the surface. Possibly a little bit more current too. It is a bit hard to tell looking at a 2D image.

Beginners often get impatient and move too fast on autopilot instead of focusing on what is happening at the edge the puddle. It is all about the puddle.

Let the arc melt into the work piece and form a puddle that penetrates well into the surface before you start moving off. Then make sure the edge you are working into is melting and joining the puddle not just melting the rod onto the surface. The bead should flow tangentially into the surface with a concave radius rather than sit out perpendicular.

If the bead is undercutting the material then the current is too high but you are not likely to get this happen just laying a bead on a flat surface.

It is hard until you get the fine motor skill to control the tip precisely while maintaining the right arc length but eat into the work piece at the edge of the puddle by moving the rod tip in little semicircles. The puddle is round and you follow its edge fairly precisely without missing melting any of the metal.

The puddle also needs to be big enough and stay molten long enough for the slag to float to the surface otherwise you get flux inclusions. The depth of penetration and the width are related. A thin bead is a shallow bead.

Listen to the arc. You can tell a lot about what is going on by the sound. It sounds different when the arc is connecting to already molten metal. It gets unstable when the arc is too long. I've even welded in inaccessible places where I couldn't see what I was doing by guiding the rod using the corner that was being joined and listening to the sound. I wouldn't say it was great join but it was good enough for purpose and saved hours of work removing the tray from the truck to repair it.

I quite liked the old choke welders with the magnetic shunt current control that rattled and hummed. You could tell when it was going to be a good weld because the hum was steady with strong a fundamental tone.
Thankyou so much. You make so much sense in this post.
So playing it back, can I confirm you are saying I should also be turning the rod 90 degrees the whole time while I'm going down along the metal constantly?

At the end of the class the teacher came into my bay and he helped me, I could really feel my rod tip going deeper, not just the surface but really into the base metal block and really staying in the puddle. He had technical equipment issues to sort out for other students a long time during the class (I suppose some machines hadn't been used for that purpose for a while) so he said he couldn't see how everybody was going along as much as he would have liked to.
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