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Old 2007-10-23, 11:37 PM   #31
Sponge
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I adore Profile cranks for their undisputedly incredible feel for pedalgrabs. The hub is very gorgeous at the same time, gaining much wanted and unwanted attention from cyclists of all genres.

However, ISIS is more popular now for unis because:

1. ISIS is cheaper than Profile's ridiculous price
2. The KH ISIS hub is lighter than the Profile hub
3. ISIS is easier and cheaper to maintain
4. Profile is far messier to work with (copper grease ahoy!) and can develop spindle slop after a while
5. Profile uni hubs are hard to get for countries outside of North America.
6. ISIS is pretty much fit and forget if done properly.
7. People prefer solid aluminium cranks these days for street and trials (yes, I purposefully missed out flatland).

But, the ISIS axle, (by that I mean, the true ISIS, most common on bikes) is weaker than the Profile 48-spline axle. I have seen hundreds (literally) of ISIS spindles broken on bike's bottom brackets (mostly biketrials), whereas BMX is a similarly harsh sport to biketrials except you don't hear of nearly as many Profile spindle breakages.

It is for that reason, that ISIS is not used in BMX almost at all. One would think that it would be popular because it is so easy and convenient to fit together compared to the fiddly 36 or 48-spline BMX axle, but it's not used because the ISIS axle is considered as weaker. I'm sure someone on here may try to dispute that, but it's the truth. I am taking into account the thick and thin ISIS axle options, but even the thick ISIS axles are weaker than the Profile spindles.

I am glad that ISIS has finally taken off in unicycling, but there is a little to be corrected. For the general crowd, ISIS is better because it is strong enough to deal with your average rider... and it's cheap and easy to maintain most importantly. A Profile crankset in the hands of a kid who doesn't give a shit about maintenance or regular checkups will end in ruin... for sure.
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Old 2007-10-23, 11:52 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sponge
I adore Profile cranks for their undisputedly incredible feel for pedalgrabs. The hub is very gorgeous at the same time, gaining much wanted and unwanted attention from cyclists of all genres.

However, ISIS is more popular now for unis because:

1. ISIS is cheaper than Profile's ridiculous price
2. The KH ISIS hub is lighter than the Profile hub
3. ISIS is easier and cheaper to maintain
4. Profile is far messier to work with (copper grease ahoy!) and can develop spindle slop after a while
5. Profile uni hubs are hard to get for countries outside of North America.
6. ISIS is pretty much fit and forget if done properly.
7. People prefer solid aluminium cranks these days for street and trials (yes, I purposefully missed out flatland).

But, the ISIS axle, (by that I mean, the true ISIS, most common on bikes) is weaker than the Profile 48-spline axle. I have seen hundreds (literally) of ISIS spindles broken on bike's bottom brackets (mostly biketrials), whereas BMX is a similarly harsh sport to biketrials except you don't hear of nearly as many Profile spindle breakages.

It is for that reason, that ISIS is not used in BMX almost at all. One would think that it would be popular because it is so easy and convenient to fit together compared to the fiddly 36 or 48-spline BMX axle, but it's not used because the ISIS axle is considered as weaker. I'm sure someone on here may try to dispute that, but it's the truth. I am taking into account the thick and thin ISIS axle options, but even the thick ISIS axles are weaker than the Profile spindles.

I am glad that ISIS has finally taken off in unicycling, but there is a little to be corrected. For the general crowd, ISIS is better because it is strong enough to deal with your average rider... and it's cheap and easy to maintain most importantly. A Profile crankset in the hands of a kid who doesn't give a shit about maintenance or regular checkups will end in ruin... for sure.
Now what you said about bikes, seems completely opposite from what you see in unicycling. So far no ISIS hub or crank has been broken or bent.

And what do you mean by average rider? I dont think KH designed hub and cranks to be only up to par with average, but able to hold up to the extremities of unicycling. And im sure you didnt design your frame to hold average strength hub.

True what you say about a poorly maintained unicycle though. =p
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Old 2007-10-24, 12:00 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrick
Now what you said about bikes, seems completely opposite from what you see in unicycling. So far no ISIS hub or crank has been broken or bent.
Someone on the forums has indeed bent some Tensile cranks.

Which is highly unusual for Tensiles, but because they are shorter than the Bike Trials cranks, I'm going to say they recieve a LOT more torsional force along the length of the crank than the longer ones.

The 160, 165, and 170's that they are using in Bike Trials, usually they completely snap, and don't bend in the slightest.
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Old 2007-10-24, 12:03 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgschulze
Someone on the forums has indeed bent some Tensile cranks.

Which is highly unusual for Tensiles, but because they are shorter than the Bike Trials cranks, I'm going to say they recieve a LOT more torsional force along the length of the crank than the longer ones.

The 160, 165, and 170's that they are using in Bike Trials, usually they completely snap, and don't bend in the slightest.
I forgot about the Tensiles. Hmm, that word looks really weird to me right now. Haha

I was mainly talking about the KH Moments, Nimbus hub, and the Qu-Ax.

Did Marco ever post the pictures of those?
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Last edited by Jerrick; 2007-10-24 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 2007-10-24, 01:10 AM   #35
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Jerrick, do remember that KH ISIS has only been around for a short while in unicycling. I was using bikes as an example of ISIS vs. Profile axle strength.

What I'd meant to make out is that ISIS is simple and easy to fit and maintain so it is always going to be fine for 'the average rider' (I wasn't referring to skill level, instead towards attitude towards maintenance of components), in that I mean most trials/street riders (i.e. young guys who generally speaking would rather not have to fiddle around with maintenance 24/7), I didn't make it all too clear in my post above. Apologies... and isn't it obvious to us all that KH is designed for extremities

Profiles are lovely to use, but I admit they are a heartache to maintain at times, I remember I went through hell and back with my first Profile wheelset. I'm a perfectionist type of person who takes care of his equipment, but other people won't think the same way I do, and therefore less care with Profiles= nightmare (potentially). Whereas ISIS is just fit and forget in most cases, with no worries. It is a much simpler system than Profile.

Anyway I never really doubted ISIS for strength... I was merely comparing Profile and ISIS. ISIS is indeed the way forward and I always thought so since the beginning, since it works so well for biketrials. And yeah, the Triton is indeed designed to go with all the strong hubs out there to give it an amazing performance. However I'm going to be honest... the KH Moment hub does need a little bit of revision, about the flanges only really, I'm sure we'd all much rather have flanges that don't bend from little things. Other than that KH ISIS is awesome.

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Old 2007-10-24, 01:15 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sponge
buenas noches

mmmmmmmmm nachoooooos...
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Old 2007-10-24, 02:37 PM   #37
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Maestro8 -What are you trying to say and do?

Maestro8 - In every poll taken or or sample representative of a population there is always going to be a certain chance for error. However in this discussion when I said that KH ISIS hubs and cranks ruled the market I meant that they are the most popular brand being sold now. I have never read a complaint on any Moment crank breaking so I guess that shows that they are strong enough for any abuse that unicyclist want to dish out. Whether the Moments are actually 55% of crank sales or 61% of crank sales is not relevant to our discussion. If you think that it is so important- start counting up cranks! By the way, I never said that Moment cranks were stronger than Profiles. I did say that Profiles are Old School. I would have purchased them 2 years ago but I would not buy them today unless their price falls substaintailly.

By the way - I just happen to have a Batchelors degree Cum Laude in Statistics from the University at Buffalo. A top ten ranking school in the field of Statistics.

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Old 2007-10-24, 02:49 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrick
Did Marco ever post the pictures of those?

No, i didnt :P

You wont notice it on pictures... i still ride with my Tensiles and i dont feel it anymore. I know they are bend... but its not that big. The right crank is like 1mm off the frame than the left crank... could be my frame thats a bit bend too... but i dont know.
Everybody who rode my uni since the day i bend them said that theres a strange feeling in the right crank and they said its bend.

I still like the Tensiles a lot, but i dont recommend them to other riders because they are not that strong. Go for the KH or the Quax ISIS ones.

The Quax are still about 100g lighter than the KH if you go for the weight and the strenght.
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Old 2007-10-24, 06:52 PM   #39
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Thanks for the input, Sponge. I agree that the flanges should be improved on. Luckily I bashed my DX for a long time before getting the KH, and im at the point where all grabs are on the pedal, and never slamming into the hub.

So, uh, back on the subject of this thread...

Take it away, Brian!
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Old 2007-10-24, 11:33 PM   #40
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Maestro8 - If I remember correctly KH would break his Profile cranks every 4-5 months or so and the hubs would last around 9 months. I don't think he has broken any of the Moment stuff yet except for the pototype geared hub that had a weaker design than the non-geared ones (I think he is making the production ones stronger).

Smilymarco - Are those regular Tensiles, or the ones that were strengthend specifically for unicyclists?

Brian - I also think some people would like to easily substitute a LM rim, or a wider trials, like these two Try-All rims, the Qu-Ax DB 45, or Onza Hogg. I think I read about a 55 mm. wide 32 hole trials rim, if that can be had w/ 36 holes some people might like to get that. Also 13 guage spokes.
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Old 2007-10-24, 11:55 PM   #41
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I think Kris's stuff is great, and I think the moments are an incredibile value. That being said, I've never seem him post anything about never breaking his moment setup. While I don't doubt his integity, I don't expect him to advertise everytime he breaks a piece of his own gear. I'm sure he mentioned braking the geared hub because (1) it was only a prototype (2) so that people are aware that the geared hub has limitations.

Frankly, I'd be amazed if he went through several sets of profiles a year while never damaging the moments. Especially considering their lower cost and (weight?)

...I could be wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skilewis74
Maestro8 - If I remember correctly KH would break his Profile cranks every 4-5 months or so and the hubs would last around 9 months. I don't think he has broken any of the Moment stuff yet except for the pototype geared hub that had a weaker design than the non-geared ones (I think he is making the production ones stronger).
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Old 2007-10-25, 03:00 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mscalisi
I think Kris's stuff is great, and I think the moments are an incredibile value. That being said, I've never seem him post anything about never breaking his moment setup.
True, I only remember that one for sure. I think there were others, but I may be confusing it w/ something else, and that was the only one that he said he broke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscalisi
While I don't doubt his integity, I don't expect him to advertise everytime he breaks a piece of his own gear. I'm sure he mentioned braking the geared hub because (1) it was only a prototype (2) so that people are aware that the geared hub has limitations.
If I remember correctly he said that the moment setup lastes significantly longer, implying that he had broken them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscalisi
I'm sure he mentioned braking the geared hub because (1) it was only a prototype (2) so that people are aware that the geared hub has limitations.
I think another reason why he mensioned that is that he was going to try to get the part he broke made stronger (the gears were fine).

Quote:
Originally Posted by skilewis74
I think I read about a 55 mm. wide 32 hole trials rim, if that can be had w/ 36 holes some people might like to get that. Also 13 guage spokes.
Found it.
MONTY 221Ti REAR RIM
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Old 2007-10-25, 07:41 AM   #43
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Moments Vs Profiles

I am not saying that Profiles are weaker than Moment Cranks and Hubs.

The profiles are good cranks and hubs but they are old scool. By the way they are very similiar in design and make as the old KH/Onza cranks and hubs. The reason that the profile is so much more expensive as are the older KH/Onza setup is because of manufacturing cost. The Profiles and old KH/Onza are CroMoly with inserts welded in at both ends of the cranks. The Moment cranks are one peice of forged aluminum. Much cheaper not necissarily weaker. Also ISIS is the standard in the huge bike market that means that there are tons of competing manufacturers and ISIS making equipment. The old KH/Onza and Profiles were special makes. That means expensive manufacturing cost. I have not broken my old KH/Onza setups or either of my Moment setups. Both are very strong and well designed. However with time technology and designs improve and I must say that the shape of the moment cranks is far superior to the Shape of the Profile and KH/Onza. For Muni and Trials at least. Nice rounded parts where they connect into the hub. Never bit my ankle with a moment crank! and flat tops and bottoms for crank grabs and stands.

For a cheaper price we are getting a better crank and Hub setup!

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