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Old 2017-12-21, 11:29 AM   #31
rich
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Partex

D;
Sorry to hear about the tyre snags.
I was about to pull the trigger on a (completely unnecessary) Lite upgrade for mine to coincide with swapping to a 29er tube for weight loss.

I've got a full-fat Nightrider on a Stealth rim. If you are interested in a part-exchange swap let me know! It would help me justify my purchase if I can move my old one on to someone who would use it. It's a few years old but plenty of life left in it. I wouldn't be asking a lot for it and I'll give you what you paid.

No pressure (well, maybe a few bar! ).

Can anyone confirm if the original Nightrider would be more compatible with the aero rim than the Lite? And if the Lite would do OK on my Stealth (not Stealth 2) rim? Cheers!
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Old 2017-12-21, 11:49 AM   #32
bouin-bouin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat D View Post
Morning Folks,

Some info with respect to the new Nimbus Tyre.

I bought Mike Fule's old Nimbus 36er with the Aero style rim. It came with a TA tyre and a Foss tube. A week back I bought the new Nightrider Lite tyre. I replaced the tube with a Michelin 29er tube as I don't have patches for the Foss tube. I've used 29er tubes for years on my 36er mountain bike.

The tyre is great to ride and the reduction in rotating mass made a noticeable difference.

The tyre has been on for a few days at 45 psi. Last night I inflated it to 55psi and parked it. The bead seat was nice and even. A couple of hours later, as my good lady was walking past the uni, the tyre blew off the rim. After the screaming had finished, I realized what had happened.

So after a chat with Roger this morning, his conclusion is that the tyre is not suitable for the older style aero profile rim, due to the narrow profile and possible slight reduction in bead seat diameter over the Nimbus rim. Roger also thought that the 29er tube might not have helped the matter.

So there you have it. Don't buy this tyre unless you are fitting it to the latest Nimbus rim. It's back to the TA tyre for me and I suppose I need to keep the Nightrider tyre until I build a new 36er wheel.
Or sell it to me !
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Old 2017-12-21, 12:03 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogi View Post
thanks for nice review
you're welcome.
Sorry for the all packed text, I didn't notice that the paragraphs disappeared when I copy/past my review.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat D View Post
Morning Folks,

Some info with respect to the new Nimbus Tyre.

I bought Mike Fule's old Nimbus 36er with the Aero style rim. It came with a TA tyre and a Foss tube. A week back I bought the new Nightrider Lite tyre. I replaced the tube with a Michelin 29er tube as I don't have patches for the Foss tube. I've used 29er tubes for years on my 36er mountain bike.

The tyre is great to ride and the reduction in rotating mass made a noticeable difference.

The tyre has been on for a few days at 45 psi. Last night I inflated it to 55psi and parked it. The bead seat was nice and even. A couple of hours later, as my good lady was walking past the uni, the tyre blew off the rim. After the screaming had finished, I realized what had happened.

So after a chat with Roger this morning, his conclusion is that the tyre is not suitable for the older style aero profile rim, due to the narrow profile and possible slight reduction in bead seat diameter over the Nimbus rim. Roger also thought that the 29er tube might not have helped the matter.

So there you have it. Don't buy this tyre unless you are fitting it to the latest Nimbus rim. It's back to the TA tyre for me and I suppose I need to keep the Nightrider tyre until I build a new 36er wheel.
Good to know !
unfortunately, that means that my ungeared 36er (very old Qu-ax chromed model) will never have this tire.

Thanks for your review.

I have an additional comment and a question to ask to UDC people (or any other guy who can answer).

First: the additional comment:

By looking closely at this new tire, I have this strong feeling that the section shape is rounder than the previous version.
this could be explained by the thinner sidewalls and the softer material, my tire inflated at 52 PSI looks more "balloon" shaped than my previous tires.
In consequence, when looking at the tire from behind, the threaded surface looks like a portion of a circle that would have a smaller radius, in comparison with the older tires.

I don't know if this is a positive side effect of the softer material, like I suggested, or if this new tire has purposely been designed to have its threaded surface a bit less squared/flat, but I think that could explain why the sensitivity to road crown/camber is lower (At least according to my feelings and in comparison with the KG tire).
Anyway it's a really good thing!

You people can juge, I took a picture of it.
On the picture it looks a bit less round than what my eyes can see by looking at the real tire, but still, you can see some roundness of the shape.

I post the original picture, and the modified picture where I removed the rubber pins (Paint, not Photoshop), so that you can better see the circle portion.




Now here comes the question.

There is something I noticed by looking at this picture : (from kris holm website)



or even this picture of 36er riders (hello Nathan and Kevin )



I see a gap between the top of the tire and the frame that seems somewhere between 1/2 inch and 2/3 inches..

But when I look at my G36 :



The gap is only about 3 mm.
The rubber pins are even rubbing against the bottom of the frame.

I have the latest kh frame.

What does it mean?
Is the new tire bigger in diameter? does it come from the rounder shape?

Or for a reason my frame is shorter than the others?

I measured the diameter of my tire at 920-923 mm = 36.22 - 36.33 inches.

I guess I have to change the setting of my cycle computer, it has been programmed for a 914.4 mm - 36.00 inches diameter.
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-24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.

Last edited by UniDreamerFR; 2017-12-21 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 2017-12-21, 12:14 PM   #34
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With respect to the shape of the new tyre, I noticed that the profile had changed. The tyres that I had on my 36er mountain bike were flatter.

On the subject of the overall diameter, I also noticed that the new tyre is bigger. There is less clearance to my old Nimbus Nightrider frame than the TA tyre. I have the measurements from my previous Nimber tyres on the frame drawings I did for my 36er MTB. I will dig them out and check the measurement.

It's pity and slightly annoying that the tyre isn't suitable for the older rims. Heyho.
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Old 2017-12-21, 12:32 PM   #35
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Sorry, but I did not get it. Will there be a 32" Version in the future or not?
THX!
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Old 2017-12-21, 12:53 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniDreamerFR View Post

...
I have the latest kh frame.
....
I don´t think so. You have a Maggi mount on your frame. 2017 KH frames do not have them anymore. Only disc mount tab and cable holders.

Then the crown to bearing holder distance might have changed as well ...? KH also changed the clearance (width) on the 27,5 and 29 frames in 2017.
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Old 2017-12-21, 01:03 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunstrasen View Post
I don´t think so. You have a Maggi mount on your frame. 2017 KH frames do not have them anymore. Only disc mount tab and cable holders.

Then the crown to bearing holder distance might have changed as well ...? KH also changed the clearance (width) on the 27,5 and 29 frames in 2017.
You are right, I wasn't aware there was a 2017 frame, and didn't notice that magura mounts have disappeared, which in my opinion is a pitty.

But what? The distance from bearing to crawn was higher (nathan's yellow 36er for example) then shorter (mine ? ) then higher again?
And Fat D noticed an increased overal wheel diameter with this new tire too, so maybe it's a combination of both explanations ?
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- Qu-ax trial 19"
-24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.
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Old 2017-12-21, 01:09 PM   #38
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Found the reply from Kris in the "2017 KH lineup" thread and just copied it:

Here are the vertical clearances for KH frames, measured from axle to underside of crown:
KH20: 268.5 mm
KH24: 338.5 mm
KH27.5: 383.5 mm
KH29: 401.5 mm
KH36: 463.5 mm


Then you can measure if your frame is the same or not. Hope that helps to clarify.
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Old 2017-12-21, 01:37 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunstrasen View Post
Found the reply from Kris in the "2017 KH lineup" thread and just copied it:

Here are the vertical clearances for KH frames, measured from axle to underside of crown:

KH36: 463.5 mm


Then you can measure if your frame is the same or not. Hope that helps to clarify.
Thanks.
I measured it approximately, and it seems to match.

furthermore, 463.5 of radius x 2 = 927 mm diameter.
so the 2017 frame can take up to a 927mm wheel (with no clearance).

Let's take my smaller measure of the wheel with the new tire : 920mm diameter.

927-920 = 7mm

I see a clearance of 3-3.5 mm between the top of my wheel and the fork, but it's a radius, so if I multiply by two it gives 7mm as well.

It sounds like the 2015 kh36 frame has the same "axle to underside of crown" distance as the 2017.
And it also sounds like the wheel is definitely bigger.

waiting for confirmations from Kris and from UDC
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-24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.
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Old 2017-12-21, 05:04 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniDreamerFR View Post
By looking closely at this new tire, I have this strong feeling that the section shape is rounder than the previous version.
this could be explained by the thinner sidewalls and the softer material, my tire inflated at 52 PSI looks more "balloon" shaped than my previous tires.
In consequence, when looking at the tire from behind, the threaded surface looks like a portion of a circle that would have a smaller radius, in comparison with the older tires.

I don't know if this is a positive side effect of the softer material, like I suggested, or if this new tire has purposely been designed to have its threaded surface a bit less squared/flat, but I think that could explain why the sensitivity to road crown/camber is lower (At least according to my feelings and in comparison with the KG tire).
Anyway it's a really good thing!
Cut...
I wonder if the more rounded profile is always a good thing. It is true that a more rounded profile will be less effected by road camber. However, it also follows that this more rounded tire will also make it harder to make smooth turns by just leaning into the turn. It would also seem to follow that a more rounded tire would make it harder to ride with two hands on a handle, especially at slower speeds.

The effect of camber and the effect of leaning into a turn are exactly the same thing. The tuning effect caused by road camber on more square tires is a bad thing and this very same effect is a good thing for leaning into a turn and making smooth turns on hard surfaces. In the end I guess it is up to the rider to determine what kind of tire they want based on the type of riding they do.

Jim
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Old 2017-12-21, 05:50 PM   #41
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A bit more info about the tyre and aero rim.

I measured the aero rim this evening. Bead seat diameter is 785mm. The tyre is designed for a bead seat diameter of 787mm. So the old aero rim is 2mm down. Not sure if that is significant. The sidewall of the rim to the bead seat is 7.0mm deep. The rim outer diameter is 799mm. Does anybody have the measurement for a new Nimbus Rim?

The rim is 30mm wide. The new Nimbus rim is 42mm wide.

When inflated to 32psi the TA tyre is 907mm in diameter. Not sure what the new tyre is when inflated as I don't want to put it back on.

The bead seat witness on the TA tyre is 7mm deep, so the tyre fits the rim nicely.

Has anybody fitted the old Nimbus Nightrider tyre to the aero rim?
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Old 2017-12-21, 08:14 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimT View Post
It would also seem to follow that a more rounded tire would make it harder to ride with two hands on a handle, especially at slower speeds.

Jim
I thought I said it in my review but I didn't : I ride 99.9% of the time with both hands on the handlebar.
Since I made a DIY handlebar that allows me to put my hands close to the seat or far away from it, and since I often change from one position to the other, I can tell that during this test ride, I did find my G36 easier to ride (holding it with both hands) than with the previous tire that was a KG, including at slower speeds.


I have only had one ride with it, so it's not much, but during this ride I only felt positive things. I only found improvements over my previous tire.
Like I did say on my review, maneuverability has been improved.

I will focus on what you say during my next ride though.

Thanks for the input.
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- Geared kh36 + Nightrider Lite + Kh Tbar + HS33
- Qu-ax 36" + nightrider +Q-handle+ cable rim brake
- kh 29" + knard 29x3+ kh Tbar + HS33
- Qu-ax trial 19"
-24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.

Last edited by UniDreamerFR; 2017-12-21 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 2017-12-22, 03:02 AM   #43
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Roger said in his post nimbus quax and ta all were made in the same factory using the same carcass and bead and bath , if the new carcass and bead in the light weight tire is not compatible with a 32mm rim will the carcass and bead be different in the other tires to make them work on a 32mm rim or are there other factors .
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Old 2017-12-22, 03:29 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper uni View Post
Roger said in his post nimbus quax and ta all were made in the same factory using the same carcass and bead and bath , if the new carcass and bead in the light weight tire is not compatible with a 32mm rim will the carcass and bead be different in the other tires to make them work on a 32mm rim or are there other factors .
I am assuming that Fat D is referring to the undersized Airfoil rims that were sold in the mid-2000s. I had one, I've had a TA blow off at modest pressure, I'm not surprised another tire blew off at 55 PSI, no-mater how it is constructed.

The issue is not the width of the rim, it's a smaller hoop. At the time the Wheelman TA tire was the only suggested tire for that rim as the others would blow off. I don't know how many of these rims are still being used but it can't be that many. Fat D's experience is a good data point, but for anyone who does not have an Airfoil rim I would not worry about it.

It's good to see some lighter options coming to market.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat D View Post
Has anybody fitted the old Nimbus Nightrider tyre to the aero rim?
I have not tried a Nightrider on my airfoil rim, but can tell you that when I put the old TA that blew off my Airfoil onto a Nimbus Stealth rim it was tighter than the Nightrider that came off. I think pretty much anything else will be loose and prone to blowing out on that rim.
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Last edited by saskatchewanian; 2017-12-22 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 2017-12-22, 09:39 AM   #45
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When I read how UniDreamer struggled to put his tire on the rim, we can assume it will stay on at whatever pressure!
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