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Old 2013-06-05, 02:04 AM   #166
DavidHood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brycer1968 View Post
+1. Ive pretty much stopped relying on traditional rim strips to keep a tube from herniating its self through a rim cut out. Ive been backing up the standard KH or Surly riom strip with 2-3 layers of that fiber tape for a couple of years now. Its great stuff that really works well on the KH rims with cutouts . . .and the Surly cutouts aren't that much bigger are they?
Bryce
I hated the holes in my Impulse rim and I like the ones in my 47mm KH29 even less! I got the tape (closest USA equalavent is Scotch« Extreme« Application Packaging Tape) and man is it thick! So how to apply? Also, should I go ahead and install my spare blue KH rim strip (as in double it up) first? Weight be damned. My LBS used duct tape to battle the bulge on my Impulse. At least these holes will still be blue instead of gray.
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Old 2013-06-05, 06:08 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHood View Post
I hated the holes in my Impulse rim and I like the ones in my 47mm KH29 even less! I got the tape (closest USA equalavent is Scotch« Extreme« Application Packaging Tape) and man is it thick! So how to apply? Also, should I go ahead and install my spare blue KH rim strip (as in double it up) first? Weight be damned. My LBS used duct tape to battle the bulge on my Impulse. At least these holes will still be blue instead of gray.
I always used the stock KH rim strip first and then backed it up with 2-3 layers of the fibered packing tape. I found that its easier to apply if the tape is about 3/4" wide. It seems to lay down flatter and I pull it pretty tight as I lay it down.. Then slit/cutout the tape covering the valve hole and you are done.
I have never had to deal with tube herniations on any wheel Ive done this to.
B
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Old 2013-06-05, 06:10 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Maxilainen View Post
Knard on a KH Freeride 47mm rim.
3mm (1/8 inch) space between tire and frame with 23psi / 1,6 bar.
Thanks for posting pics.
Wow, that looks like a pretty tight fit. I've always thought of about 5-6mm per side as the minimum comfortable clearance for anything I ride off road. I may just end up fabricating a frame for this wheel.
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Old 2013-06-05, 01:03 PM   #169
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On the rim cut out bulge issue I hate the kh 26 rim but like onza pro diamond
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Old 2013-06-05, 02:47 PM   #170
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I gotta say, and maybe wrongly so, but I'da thought on a frame built specifically to fit a Knard, you'd have more clearance. Like you said Bryce, ~5mm is kinda what I woulda been looking fo (not that I'm getting one). I guess I just don't know why if you're going to have a purpose built frame like that, you'd still be trying to cram the tire in there as tightly as possible.

However, I'm sure there's more of it then meets the eye (mine anyways). There's probably good reason for the way they did it, I'm just suprised.
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Old 2013-06-05, 03:17 PM   #171
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What kind of pressures are you running to have issues with the rim tape on KH rims?
I've noticed that occasionally some rim strips seem to be extra thin/stretchy and am wondering if that's the problem in your case - either that or tire pressure?
In my experience I've never had an issue with it - the KH rim cutouts are smaller than some out there. Basically the cutout size was tweaked to fine tune the strength/weight ratio. In any case, doubling up on the rim tape or adding fiber tape would do the trick as you say.

Kris
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Old 2013-06-05, 04:44 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danger_uni View Post
What kind of pressures are you running to have issues with the rim tape on KH rims?
I've noticed that occasionally some rim strips seem to be extra thin/stretchy and am wondering if that's the problem in your case - either that or tire pressure?
In my experience I've never had an issue with it - the KH rim cutouts are smaller than some out there. Basically the cutout size was tweaked to fine tune the strength/weight ratio. In any case, doubling up on the rim tape or adding fiber tape would do the trick as you say.

Kris
To clarify, I've never had the tube hemorrhage thru the holes of my KH Freeride rim. I'm was simply trying to be proactive because it happened on my Nimbus Impulse (sold) with the first run Dominator rim. In all fairness, it did not happen until after a couple thousand miles with the Nightrider tire pumped up to maximum 65psi.

I only use 20-25psi in my KH29 (47mm wide Freeride rim) though I have had it up to over 30psi once to ride the road on vacation (my 36er is scared to fly). To be honest, I've considered (against the advice of UDC) using a FOSS tube to counteract the weight gain when I switch my Ardent to a Hans Dampf. But, the addition of fiber tape (did I mention this stuff was heavy duty) might very well negate (30% lighter than a standard tube) any savings in weight.

For the record, I LOVE my KH29. How you made that thing lighter than my 26" Oracle (retrofitted with 2.35 Highroller tire) is a mystery to me but hold them side by side and it is obvious. In all reality, I should stop being such a weight weenie.

To all: so sorry for the threadjack. this is where I found the fiber tape link so this is where I posted my reply. any future discussion will be in the appropriate thread.
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Old 2013-06-05, 07:00 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by DavidHood View Post
But, the addition of fiber tape (did I mention this stuff was heavy duty) might very well negate (30% lighter than a standard tube) any savings in weight.
Not with the stuff I'm using - a couple of wraps of that is lighter than standard rim tape. I'm sure you must be able to get the stuff I'm using in the US, as it was recommended by Stan from Notubes in his original ghetto tubeless instructions - in fact ISTR having trouble getting it over here originally. In fact here it is, it took less than a minute to find:
The stuff you seem to be using is totally different, with cross weave rather than unidirectional fibres, and presumably a much heavier weight tape.
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Old 2013-06-05, 07:08 PM   #174
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it took less than a minute to find
Thanks for the link aracer! I wish I had searched harder before I set out for Staples. Mine cost $12 for a 22 foot roll. I saved the receipt so it will be going back for a refund.
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Old 2013-06-06, 02:40 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danger_uni View Post
What kind of pressures are you running to have issues with the rim tape on KH rims?
I've noticed that occasionally some rim strips seem to be extra thin/stretchy and am wondering if that's the problem in your case - either that or tire pressure?
In my experience I've never had an issue with it - the KH rim cutouts are smaller than some out there. Basically the cutout size was tweaked to fine tune the strength/weight ratio. In any case, doubling up on the rim tape or adding fiber tape would do the trick as you say.

Kris
HI Kris. On the Surly Knard frame fit issues, I might be tempted to reconsider my plan to build a custom frame that will fit the 29" Knard tire if I knew that you and your development team were planning to increase the tire clearance on the Kris Holm KH29 or release a fatty KH29" frame in something like the next year? Any thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Brycer
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Old 2013-06-14, 02:12 AM   #176
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Just mounted my Knard with Rabbit Hole rim on the "newer" Oracle frame and it scrubs pretty good on one side at one point every rotation. Will try to make some adjustments tomorrow and check the wheel for true. Pretty disappointed right now but optomistic that a solution can be found.
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Old 2013-06-14, 02:34 AM   #177
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In addition to making sure the wheel is true, make sure the tire is seated evenly all the way around the rim. If the bead is not even the tire can bulge out. Good luck.
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Old 2013-06-14, 05:50 PM   #178
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So the Knard and Rabbit Hole on the new Oracle 29" frame is a nogo folks, close but no cigar. . It will fit and spin fine by itself with only the nipples rubbing but as soon as you get on and ride the flexing causes the knobbies to rub on both sides of the crown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
About the Oracle 29 frame and the Knard...the fit will be tight, so keep that in mind. It might be worthwhile building it up with a narrower rim like a Velocity Blunt 35 (P 35) and run that tubeless
I would have taken this advice sooner but I had already ordered the RH, wasn't sure if 35mm was too narrow for the Knard. Well at least I know 50mm is too wide! Can't believe it fits fine on the 47mm KH rim.

The good news is I'll have an even lighter muni, shooting for 12lbs flat! Bad news is that I wasted a little cash with the build and precious time. Look for the RH with rim strip and tube in the for sale section next week.


Quote:
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In addition to making sure the wheel is true, make sure the tire is seated evenly all the way around the rim. If the bead is not even the tire can bulge out. Good luck.
Thanks for the suggestion Claude but the rim is true and tire is seated. LBS suggested cutting the knobbies on the edge off. I'm not interested in doing that and I still don't think it would clear anyways.

Either way the 120tpi Knard and RH rim are quite impressive and incredibly light!
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Old 2013-06-14, 06:03 PM   #179
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:12 PM   #180
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I wonder if the KH frame will have this problem too even with the crown raised. Does anyone know how wide the fork is for KH and Oracle frames?
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