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Old 2017-09-06, 06:33 AM   #16
unibokk
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[QUOTE=JimT;1687705]If a thread lock is really needed and there is no consensus that it is needed, there is one that is designed specifically for spokes.

DT Swiss Spoke Freeze was developed in conjunction with Loctite. This threadlock solution prevents loosening of the spoke-nipple connection.

Spoke Freeze locks nipples in place, but allows for up to five adjustments before the compound breaks down. The 10ml bottle will freeze approximately 100 wheels.

Seems quite expensive but is widely available.



Jim[/QUO


Thanks JimT

I never heard of it but it looks promising. I'll read up on it.
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Old 2017-09-06, 06:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by song View Post
Most of us refer to them as spoke nipples, but I guess it depends on what gender you assign your unicycle.

I rebuilt my 20" a couple of times, only using a drop of bicycle chain oil on each spoke. The second time, when I had done it correctly, I trued my wheel and tightened it up a couple of times after the first couple of rides, and that was about two years ago. Since then it has never gone out of true, even though I do plenty of stairways.

I would never put loctite on my spokes, especially red loctite. A dished 36 is more complicated, and probably more subject to loosening than a 20, but my guess is still that if you true it and get it tight enough, you won't need any thread locker.

Spoke nipples that cannot be twisted with a spoke wrench are annoying. I associate them with cheap or corroded wheels, and I definitely would not create such a situation deliberately.

Thanks Song.
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Old 2017-09-06, 11:52 AM   #18
RHankey
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The two leading causes of spokes chronically working loose are:
1. Insufficient tension. You don't necessarily need a tension gauge to test tension - Compare the plucking noise between your wheel and a known solid wheel to get a rough ballpark of where you need to be. If in doubt add a 1/4 to 1/2 turn to all spokes.
2. The outbound spokes (those with the heads facing inward) did not have the J-bend adjusted so the spoke lays flat when the spokes were being laced. You need to back off the tension so all the spokes are good and loose, then push down on each outbound spoke with your thumb 1/2" past the J-bend.
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Old 2017-09-06, 12:00 PM   #19
unibokk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHankey View Post
The two leading causes of spokes chronically working loose are:
1. Insufficient tension. You don't necessarily need a tension gauge to test tension - Compare the plucking noise between your wheel and a known solid wheel to get a rough ballpark of where you need to be. If in doubt add a 1/4 to 1/2 turn to all spokes.
2. The outbound spokes (those with the heads facing inward) did not have the J-bend adjusted so the spoke lays flat when the spokes were being laced. You need to back off the tension so all the spokes are good and loose, then push down on each outbound spoke with your thumb 1/2" past the J-bend.

Your second point is very interesting. I will check that before doing anything else.

Thanks RHankey.
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Old 2017-09-07, 07:44 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHankey View Post
The two leading causes of spokes chronically working loose are:
1. Insufficient tension. You don't necessarily need a tension gauge to test tension - Compare the plucking noise between your wheel and a known solid wheel to get a rough ballpark of where you need to be. If in doubt add a 1/4 to 1/2 turn to all spokes.
2. The outbound spokes (those with the heads facing inward) did not have the J-bend adjusted so the spoke lays flat when the spokes were being laced. You need to back off the tension so all the spokes are good and loose, then push down on each outbound spoke with your thumb 1/2" past the J-bend.
there is a third....the most common at trials...deformation off the rim. you wont see it but double walled rims, especially with holes give in by time.
hard ridden muni rims do the same, at the end the rim breake in the middle between the holes.
thats the reason trial and muni wheels need some review by time...
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Old 2017-09-08, 02:45 AM   #21
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Before you do anything you should find a way to check your tension. Occam's razor would lead me to believe that low tension is what's causing the loosening.

If you loosen your spokes to push down the j-bend, you're left needing to retension the wheel anyway. The j-bends will also pull themselves flat over time (and require a retension when that happens since the spoke is getting longer).

Putting loctite on your spokes because you don't have a tension meter is like stitching up a small cut in your own arm because you don't have a band aid.

Take the wheel to a shop, use your phone with a guitar tuner app, or spring for a tm-1 (which is not an expensive tool considering how much easier it will make life).

Don't use loctite.
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Old 2017-09-09, 12:26 PM   #22
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Thanks Killian

A guitar tuner ? What note should the spokes be tuned to??
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Old 2017-09-10, 03:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killian View Post
Before you do anything you should find a way to check your tension. Occam's razor would lead me to believe that low tension is what's causing the loosening.
...
Putting loctite on your spokes because you don't have a tension meter is like stitching up a small cut in your own arm because you don't have a band aid.
...
Don't use loctite.
I totally agree - there is no way you should be having to use something to stop the nipples unscrewing if the wheel is properly tensioned. My anecdotal experience is that the very first set of bike wheels I built myself I had to stop to tighten the spokes on the first ride as they'd come completely loose. I've built wheels with a lot more tension since then and not had a problem again.

Check here for advice on checking tension by pitch:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/spoke-pitch.html

You're spoke length will be longer than the longest in that table, so you'll need to do a bit of adjustment. In theory tone is inversely proportional to length, but the effective length of the spoke which is vibrating and generating the tone is less than the whole length of the spoke as the ends are held rigid.

In order to get the correct tone for your spokes, divide your spoke length by 2 and add 10mm - check the tone for that length in the table and that's the tone you should be aiming for (but an octave lower as your spokes are effectively twice as long).

Or if that's all too confusing, tell me your spoke length and I'll give you the tone/frequency you should be aiming for.
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Old 2017-09-12, 04:11 PM   #24
unibokk
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Thanks Aracer

For the past while I've just been tightening the odd spoke on the road. Over time the wheel has gone out of true. I'm going to allocate some time to doing a full job on the spokes and trueing the wheel.

Also there are some new spokes in the wheel which I didn't pre-stress as suggested by BungeeJoe.

Maybe I'll pass on the red Loctite. Although I'm still curiously tempted.

Last edited by unibokk; 2017-09-12 at 04:13 PM.
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