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Old 2013-02-14, 07:59 PM   #31
Nurse Ben
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Quote:
does it measure out to a true 3in wide?
Wes, 3" tires never measure out to 3".

You can find plenty of specs on MTBR, folks have been riding the Knard for a few months over there.

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-componen...-823020-4.html

@Rawcyclist, try a much lower pressure than you'd ever think possible, then work your way up and down, you'll probably end up around 12psi, less if you're a lightweigh, more if you like super firm tires.
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Old 2013-02-15, 02:45 AM   #32
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I rode the Knard to work this morning and took in as much (easy) single track, bumpy bike path and walking trail as I could (as well as rode off every bump I could find). I think I have the pressure dialed for me now but have not ridden any real singletrack yet. not sure what it is at as I was adjusting with a hand pump.

First impressions are of pure love. I have never ridden a fat tire uni before so did not know what to expect but this thing is like a comfy couch. Really felt like riding my full suspension MTB. Its a little slower to accelerate but the roots and bumps and rocks on the trail have just gone. Traction seems good in the dry too (if not a little too good on sharp twisty turns) but I can really compare to my Hans yet.

No noticeable crowning or self steering issues either. It can bounce a bit after a drop but again maybe that is me still having too much air in there.

Cant wait for some proper singletrack on the weekend.
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Old 2013-02-16, 02:03 AM   #33
Nurse Ben
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Knard 29 x 3" (120tpi) @20psi:
Casing 66mm x 58mm
Tread 72mm x 60mm
Weight 925gm
Radius 15.25"

Hans Dampf Pacestar 29 x 2.35 @20psi:
Casing 62mm x 50mm
Tread 62mm x 55mm
Weight 870gm

Duro 24 x 3" @15psi
Casing 65mm x 62mm
Tread 70mm x 67mm

First thoughts:

Ultralight casing on the 120 tpi may not be the best for hard core muni, 27tpi is heavier tire but probably more durable....

Tire bead is very small, it didn't like staying on the Dominator 2 rim (42mm) when seating the bead, I don't think I'd run this tire on a narrower rim, maybe the 27tpi wire bead has a beefier bead...

Thin center knobbies like an RR 2.4, casing is tall, didn't round out that much on the 42mm rim, but the knobbies run past the edges, so it should have some nice bite when layed over..

It's a deceivingly large casing, didn't really seem all that much bigger than my HD until I set it beside a Duro 3" and the Knard was clearly fatter, so it really is a fat 29er tire!

Tire arrived late, ride review and pics to follow...
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Old 2013-02-18, 02:03 AM   #34
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I mounted the Knard on a Nimbus Dominator 2, 42mm, using a Maxxis Freeride 26 x 2.2-2.5 tube.

The first time I set the bead the tire blew off the rim, so I took more care on round two and was rewarded with a nice seat, though it is still a very supple casing and it makes me wonder if it's slightly oversized. It is also possible that the tire is designed for a wider rim. The Rabbit Hole rim is 50mm, so nearly 20% wider. I don't think a 42mm rim is too narrow, but I also don't think I'd mount the tire on anything narrower, maybe a P35.

Today I spent three hours at a local spot (Haw Ridge), rocks and roots, some mud, and a lot of very nice single track. Tread is unquestionably faster than my Hans Dampf, traction in mud suffers a bit for that extra speed, but it's not really a mud tire with such shallow knobbies. It did fine in mud, not unlike the 26" version I rode a few weeks ago, a predictable slider.

I found the sweet pressure spot at 17psi, anything more got a little bouncy, much less and I had sidewall collapse. I think the tire needs some breaking in before the final pressure, but I wouldn't be suprised to end up running 18-20psi in time. I weigh 200# plus kit.

The Knard is a true 3" tire, the big casing really floats the terrain, not quite as soft riding as a 4" tire, but easilly the softest riding 29er tire I have used. On my ride today I didn't get tired nearly as quickly as I thought I would, so when I got near the parking area I decided to go back out, doubling the distance I had ridden.

I'd be curious if any other frames will fit this tire, I measured 15.25 radius measured from the spindle, width is slightly more than a Durp Wildlife 3", so add 1/2 at the crown and a little on either side. I'm sure a Conundrum will be fine, maybe some 36er frames, perhaps the Drak or Nimbus II?

I don't know that the Oracle 29 has been adjusted to fit this tire, but I believe it is in the works, Roger at UDC UK had a Knard in hand last Summer/Fall, and there's a container on the way...

If you always wanted a fat 29er, the Knard is the one you were waiting for
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Old 2013-02-18, 11:15 PM   #35
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I am running about 20-21psi in mine now. I am a bit heavier than you Ben (about 220lb with gear). It can feel a bit bouncy over drops and repeated bumps but soaks up most roots and rocks and does not collapse when I hop which it does if I drop it too much more.

Just to reiterate, I am loving this tire. I agree with Bens comments about not getting as tired when riding single track with it. You sometimes need to put in some hard strokes when you hit an incline as it does not accelerate as fast (more noticeable than on the Hans) but for the most part it just eats terrain and is soooo fun.
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Old 2013-02-19, 01:05 AM   #36
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Rode again on the Knard, rocks stuff, some decent drops, muddier on this side of the ridge than yesterday's ride, so I got a good idea of how the Knard rides in slime.

I played with pressure again and I suppose it's more my "princess and the pea" perceptions, but I find that I prefer 16-17 psi for everything but drops. At lower pressure the sidewall folds, not enough to ding the rim, but enough to toss me. I can ride at a higher pressure, 18-20psi, but the tire has more bounce and rides rougher.

It' hard to say how it compares to the Hans Dampf as it rides so differently, the Knard is more of a fat tire/flotation tire than a carver; the HD is a carver. There's a learning curve going from a skinny tire to a fat tire, I'm still getting the feel of the Knard, learnin how much is too much when it comes to putting "english" on the handle and pedals.

I still think it could use a little more sidewall, so I may buy yet another Knard, this time a 27tpi just to see how it's different from the 120tpi; the additional 200gm can't just be due to a steel bead...
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Old 2013-02-19, 07:31 AM   #37
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I didn't know they were selling a 27 TPI version. I call dibs on yours when you decide you like the 120 TPI better . I might have a few tires to trade but you have probably tired most of them.
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Old 2013-02-19, 01:11 PM   #38
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Ben im now wating on a 29in downhill freeride video from you
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Old 2013-02-19, 10:09 PM   #39
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Quote:
Ben im now wating on a 29in downhill freeride video from you
It'll be a long wait.

Quote:
I didn't know they were selling a 27 TPI version. I call dibs on yours when you decide you like the 120 TPI better . I might have a few tires to trade but you have probably tired most of them.
Well, since I could not find a single bike shop, Surly employee, or MTBR member who could tell me whether there's a difference, I now have a 27tpi in the mail.

Review and comparison to follow, and yes, you got dibs, I think I still owe you for some cranks anyhow...
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Old 2013-02-20, 01:23 AM   #40
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Some pics to tease your fancy:

Only ~5% (50gm) heavier than the Hans Dampf, but it's 10% larger!!






Doesn't look so big until you compare it side by side with a Duro Wildlife 3"
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Old 2013-02-22, 03:42 AM   #41
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Well, after some hard rides on varied terrain, Nurse Ben says:

One thumb up, one thumb down

The Knard 29 x 3 suffers from an identity crisis, in trying to make a high volume lightweight tire, they forgot the rule of two: You can make something light, you can make something strong, but not both. This is a fat tire, so you can should expect it to be slower and cushier, a little more stable, but the idea that fat is better, well that's something that can be argued...ad nauseum.

Surly is partly to blame as they used an ultralight casing on a tire that is meant to be used for all around riding. The ultralight casings are light, but that lightness comes at a price: a flimsy sidewall. I suppose it's less of a problem for bikers as they have their weight spread between two tires, but I have a feelng that those biking folks are gonna find the same issues in time

In snow riding, sidewall "suppleness" is not a bad thing, but when riding rock, roots, drops, irregular dirt surfaces, that suppleness leads to sidewall folding. The only way to counteract the sidewall folding is to increase the air pressure, but the problem with the Knard is that when you bump up the pressure, it also makes the tire bouncy. I can run 20psi in my Hans Fampf and it rides firm, not harsh, and it does not bounce.

The nicest ride quality on the Knard is around 15spi, but I get a ton of sidewall fold with any technical riding. I can get a somewhat happy medium by running the Knard at 17-18psi, but there is still some sidewall fold on drops or when cornering hard, and there is a little bounce. When I run the pressure up to 20psi the sidewall folding resolves, but the ride is much stiffer and the bounce becomes a problem.

If you haven't ridden a fat tire, this "bounce" is hard to describe, but think of bounce as what happens when you ride into an obstacle and bounce of the obstacle, but in this case you are bouncing on flat terrain. Bounce is destabilizing, worsens with speed, and is exacerbated by longer cranks.

I don't think the problem is due to my having gotten used to a narrower tire as I also ride a Knard 26 x 3.8 (120tpi). On the fatter Knard I am able to get a nice balanced ride without sidewall fold or bounce running pressures in the range of 12-14psi, but the 26" Knard uses a standard casing, not the ultralight, so it has a more robust sidewall.

I have a Knard 29 x 3 (27tpi) on order, it should be here next week, I'm hopeful that it will have the same casing as the 26" Knard, which should go a long ways toward improving the ride characteristics, though at a cost: The lower tpi Knard weighs ~1100 - 1200gm.

As they say, it's not over until the "well endowed" lady sings, but sadly I'm not in love with this tire, and after all that waiting it really is a bummer, so I'm cautiously optimistic that the 27tpi will be the tire to rule all tires

Meanwhile Hans is back on the job, though tomorrow is a Knard 26 x 3.8 mud day!!

There is a bright note to all this 29er fat tire talk: The Knard 29er has been a big hit with mtbers, so much so that Surly (and others) are likely to bring out more "29+" tires, so hold tight and maybe we get a Husker Du or Nate 29 x 3"
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Old 2013-02-23, 03:57 PM   #42
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knard 29 x 3.0 measurements

Hey Ben. Thanks for the first impressions review. Im not scared off of the 29 knard quite yet. . . .

A favor: Can you tell me with some accuracy what the total wheel height is for the knard 29er tire on your 29er rim. I saw the pic on here of the prototype Knard on a late model KH29 frame. Looks like it will fit ok, but i want to get some idea if it will fit before i buy it. I think the really close measurement will be overall tire height. It would be great if you could measure this for me at max tire pressure to see if its gonna grow much under pressure.
Thanks; bryce
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Old 2013-02-24, 12:40 AM   #43
Nurse Ben
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Hey Bryce, wheel height is 30.25" at 20psi. I don't think you'd want to run the pressure any higher, it's pretty firm at that pressure.

If I like the 27tpi better, I'll be selling the 120tpi, care to add it to your collection?

I also have a Knard 26 x 3.8 120tpi that doesn't love me so good.

Maybe we can do a group buy
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Old 2013-02-24, 08:11 AM   #44
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Shipped price for both of your unloved knard twin fattys? both are low miles? yes? send me a PM.
Your young fat larry grew up to be a really great student under my firm hand.

let me know.
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Old 2013-02-24, 11:09 PM   #45
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Yesterday, two hours on Knard 26 x 3.8" super slimy conditions, running 10psi, had a blast riding with the pups and churning up the mud!

Today, three hours on Knard 29 x 3", the warm day dried up the slop, so it was a lot less slimy, which made for a super climb day, got a couple first ascents at the local riding area

So I'm upgrading my Knard 29 x 3" 120tpi review: 1.5 thumbs up, 0.5 thumbs down

I still stand by all my previous comments, but I think I found a little more love at the lower pressures, riding at 17psi, provided just enough cushion and There was minimal sidewall folding/squirrelyness. If you don't demand a hard edging tire and you like the way a fat tire rides, the 29" Knard is nice mix of flotation and edging. I wouldn't call it a hardpack carver at 17psi, but it certainly hooks up on muddy ground and plows through slop like a fat tire should.

I think the 29" Knard needs a wider rim, I'm running a 42mm Dominator 2 and I have a fair amount of sidewall bulging, about as much as I had with a BFL on a large Marge. The KH is 47mm (10% larger) and the Surly Rabbit Hole is 50mm (20% larger). The Rabbit Hole is pricey at $150, but I'll spend the cash to build one if the weights are accurate and I can build a 32 hole wheel.

I'll post a comparison of the 120tpi vs the 27tpi next weekend...

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