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Old 2014-09-10, 05:32 PM   #61
Nurse Ben
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I wanna ride my 36er on the trails, hills n' all. I want my bread buttered on both sides. I want to have my cake and eat it. But hey! isn't that what schlumpfing is all about.
I do believe I am not alone...

Really, the whole idea of trying to unicycle is absurd, especially when there are much easier ways to ambulate, so efficiency and practicality really shouldn't be used when talking about unicycling.

The key is not practicality, but engineering a solution to an identifiable problem. Telling someone it won't matter when clearly it does, this is not the path to resolution.

Gearing down is no less practical than gearing up, you can know this very simply by looking at all other geared vehicles.

The idea of gearing down is backassword only because we think of Schlumpf hubs as gearing up a smaller wheel, when in reality there are many folks who only use the high gear on their Schlumpf (29er folks who want to go fast on the road, but don't want to ride a big wheel).

So, just because it doesn't work for the goose, doesn't mean it won't work for the gander.

If I had the cash, I'd pay Schlumpf to build me a downshifting hub, and it would be amazing, and there would be others who think the same, and Tholub would sit off to the side and shake his head, as curmudgeon' often do

But alas, I am not so well endowed, at least until I win the lottery
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Old 2014-09-10, 06:08 PM   #62
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It occurs to me that in the interim a jackshaft-geared uni might be able to be built or modified that imploys a down-geared combination. That way the theory would be able to be tested, without waiting for the ideal internal-gear solution. A "penguin"-style uni would probably also work for this experiment, with different gearing.
Just thinking out loud...
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Old 2014-09-10, 06:20 PM   #63
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Jackshaft's a good idea, not sure about a 'penguin' 36er though you'd be doing trails 20 feet in the air!
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Old 2014-09-10, 06:31 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
Gearing down is no less practical than gearing up, you can know this very simply by looking at all other geared vehicles.

The idea of gearing down is backassword only because we think of Schlumpf hubs as gearing up a smaller wheel, when in reality there are many folks who only use the high gear on their Schlumpf (29er folks who want to go fast on the road, but don't want to ride a big wheel).
Riding enormously heavy 36" wheels is impractical, you can know this very simply by looking at 99.999% of all bikes in the world. We ride 36" wheels for one reason and one reason only: because without being able to gear up, riding a bigger wheel is the only way to go faster. Riding a stupidly heavy wheel and putting a stupidly heavy and expensive hub in it so you can ride it as if it were a smaller wheel makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 2014-09-10, 07:52 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tholub View Post
Riding enormously heavy 36" wheels is impractical, you can know this very simply by looking at 99.999% of all bikes in the world. We ride 36" wheels for one reason and one reason only: because without being able to gear up, riding a bigger wheel is the only way to go faster. Riding a stupidly heavy wheel and putting a stupidly heavy and expensive hub in it so you can ride it as if it were a smaller wheel makes absolutely no sense.
Hi Tholub,

Have you ever ridden a 36er?
Liked it?
Just curious.

Greetings,

Tom
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Old 2014-09-10, 08:08 PM   #66
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I think there's a video on this forum of tholub riding a 36er
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Old 2014-09-10, 08:24 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Alan Hogan View Post
Sometimes it doesn't catch for about 30 degrees and is a hell of a long way on a 36 ..... it nearly caught me out today on my G32.
You can increase the time it takes to shift by keeping weight in the pedals, unweight to shift. You can travel quite far without changing gear (after shifting the button) if you are going downhill and constantly applying pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tholub View Post
Riding enormously heavy 36" wheels is impractical, you can know this very simply by looking at 99.999% of all bikes in the world. We ride 36" wheels for one reason and one reason only: because without being able to gear up, riding a bigger wheel is the only way to go faster. Riding a stupidly heavy wheel and putting a stupidly heavy and expensive hub in it so you can ride it as if it were a smaller wheel makes absolutely no sense.
I agree downshifting seems stupid since unicycles have low gears already. The high speed and stability of a geared 36" can not be compared to by other unicycles. Safety and stability are reasons for using a big heavy wheel. Hit a little bump and you tend to stay on, compared to a twitchy 29er or 28er geared up which requires more focus and higher rpm. I would really like to try climbing on a lightweight geared 28", but Tony convinced me to go for 36 since it has two usable gears rather than mostly high gear being usable for 28". The higher speed and inertia of the Geared 36", while offering stability and safety in most balance situations, reduces safety in traffic due to lack of manouverability, increased speed and slower reaction times (longer stopping distance). Don't assume cars are stopping at intersections just because they are supposed to- I plowed into a car that didn't stop at a stop sign on my geared 36.

I like the idea of making Schlumpf hubs compatable with disk brakes since my one is having problems with the loose crank on the disk side, and not being able to tighten it without frame rub- makes me want to ride ungeared- No brakes, no gears, no handlebars- No problems!

Last edited by Rowan; 2014-09-10 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 2014-09-10, 08:36 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Twente Muni View Post
Hi Tholub,

Have you ever ridden a 36er?
Liked it?
Just curious.

Greetings,

Tom
Yes, I've ridden 36ers numerous times, on and off-road. They're fine on flats, but I prefer a 29er for anything involving ups, downs, or turns.
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Old 2014-09-10, 10:21 PM   #69
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One of the things not addressed in those who insist a downgeared 36 would be amazing is the feel of a geared unicycle in the first place.

Riding a geared up 24 is not like an ungeared 36 even though the virtual wheel sizes are about the same (argue the 1.54 if you want).

Seems to me some people have built geared unis and then sold them because they thought the geared uni would ride the same as an ungeared uni with close virtual wheelsizes. When they rode the uni, they found out that the handling wasn't what they expected.

For those who insist that the ungeared is the way to go, do you realize that if you do get the hub you want, the uni is going to feel different than the ungeared uni with a lower ratio?

There will indeed be loss of efficiency due to the transmission. I wonder how the balance point is going to change as well. It is difficult to mount a geared (up for now) uni in high gear. It feels all weird when compared to a 1:1 crank:wheel ratio we're used to.

Won't the lower ratio be weird too? Don't forget, you also lose wheel speed so some of that stability since you will be pushing the wheel at a lower speed that what you're used to on a 36.

The point: geared unicycles are weird. It's not going to go away just because you shift down instead of up. Not having 1:1 changes the game.

Is there a market for a downgeared uni? Sure. It's small. Probably a whole lot smaller than that of a uni that shifts up. With it being a conjecture that it will be awesome, the market may indeed turn out to be smaller once it does hit the market. It's hard to see how the physics of carrying a bunch of extra weight around and spending a lot of money to clean a couple of extra hills (maybe) will appeal to a very big audience.

If those who insist the downshifting hub will be the bees knees want it to happen, then pool the cash, and throw money at the situation. If you make it rain enough, you'll get what you want.

Last edited by unigoat; 2014-09-10 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 2014-09-10, 10:51 PM   #70
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I think gearing down would defeat the challenge of climbing steep hills, imo. To quote JFK, "We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard"
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:21 PM   #71
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[QUOTE=Nurse Ben;1635674]I do believe I am not alone...

The idea of gearing down is backassword only because we think of Schlumpf hubs as gearing up a smaller wheel, when in reality there are many folks who only use the high gear on their Schlumpf (29er folks who want to go fast on the road, but don't want to ride a big wheel).

Actually, I'm with you, but I want reduction gearing for my 29er. I only ride Muni, do not need to go any faster than a 29er will allow and find myself a bit climbing impaired. It would be great to spin out a few long climbs rather than hiking them.

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Old 2014-09-11, 01:22 AM   #72
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so
moving away from the
what id really like from a shifting hub (although we seem to have skipped the normal 'id like it to be cheaper' posts)

back to what we are likely to get in the 2014 update.

from this translated letter:

Good morning Martin,

a new hub is under construction and will be available within this year.
New are finesses like more space on the sides between hub and frame (allows mounting it in various frames), the possibility to tighten the cranks against a spacer (the present locking rings are not eligible for this), less weight as well an additional version for 125mm bearing space (Coker).
That's no secret!

with kind regards
Florian

It looks like a 125mm bearing spacing hub seems a fair bet.
with this in mind are we likely to see some 125mm spacing KH frames??
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Old 2014-09-11, 01:45 AM   #73
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I contacted Florian as well, and heard that 100mm hubs will be usable with an external disc, and 125mm hubs will be usable with an internal disc.

I probed about a lower ratio too, and was told that it is in the works and would be available as an option for future hubs. As to how far in the future..
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Old 2014-09-12, 03:38 AM   #74
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Very intersting thread. Quick question: I'd really like to try the geared 36er when the new hubs become available, but since I'm mechanically inept, I have no desire to futz around with wheel building or spacers or shimming or dropouts or hub widths or left-handed metric micrometers...blah blah blah.... Are there any providers who can just deliver you a pre-built, fully Schlumpified unicycle?
--thx!

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Old 2014-09-12, 05:17 AM   #75
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Bronson Silva is the man on the west coast. http://silvacycles.com/index.html
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