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Old 2012-04-16, 05:30 PM   #16
Feisty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aracer View Post
All these problems would be avoided if only they made the uni disc adapters in post mount, thus avoiding the need for another adapter for the vast majority of us who are happy to run a 160mm disc (and making no difference to the minority who want to run a larger one). Making them IS mount is a very poor engineering solution IMHO.

(I'll keep repeating this comment until somebody takes the hint!)
I think to machine two posts and cut a thread in them would take a lot more machine time than an almost flat bracket with two counter sunk holes in it, not to mention how to make it look aesthetically pleasing.

I bet the IS design is down to cost, oh and there are some IS callipers out there

I want a KH with a welded mount personally I think these look untidy sticking out so far, tucked up on the leg is where it should be, but then we are back to economics allowing for this small subdivision of a sub-sect of all unicyclers, retro-fitable disc brakes are the only real option for a profit
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Old 2012-04-16, 08:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feisty View Post
I think to machine two posts and cut a thread in them would take a lot more machine time than an almost flat bracket with two counter sunk holes in it, not to mention how to make it look aesthetically pleasing.
But you wouldn't machine two posts - you'd make something the same as the bit where you attach the brake to on the PM to IS adapter, which has two threaded holes. Sure you've got to machine threads, but that's not the hardest job ever - anyway the alternative is having to buy parts which have two countersunk holes and four threaded holes in total! Realistically is the additional machining cost going to be more than the cost of a PM to IS adapter?

As for aesthetics, it's hardly difficult to make it look better than two bits of metal bolted together! The 4 mounting points are exactly the same in both cases, and with an all-in-one part you're not constrained by the bolts holding the two bits together.
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Old 2012-04-17, 02:50 PM   #18
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I have had a few questions thrown at me about what disc brake sizes people should be buying so I thought I would try and put something concise down here.

The first thing to understand is that on a bike presumably to aid a smaller rear disc and maintain a good front to back power bias the rear disc mounts are 10mm closer to the axle creating a 20mm difference in the diameter of the disk for the same calliper adapter.

There are two calliper mount types post and IS the former being the most common these days, bike tend to have a rear IS mount and a post mount on their fork.

Apart from some early Oregons' and maybe a prototype Qu-Ax most Unicycles use either a welded IS mount or a bearing cap mount.

If you can find a front IS calliper brake such as the closed loop Echo then you don't need an IS to post adapter. There tends to be more rear IS callipers about as bikes still use IS prominently for the rear, if you want to use a rear IS calliper you will need to allow for the 20mm difference, so a rear IS 160mm calliper would be a front 180mm so if it came with a rotor it would be too small, a rear IS 180mm would be a 200mm front

However most calliper are post mount so you will need the correct sized adapter for the disc you wish to run. the adapters are offset front to rear so it is best to describe them as a 160fr/140rr, 180fr/160rr, 200fr/180rr as they are the same part for different sized discs depending on what end of the bike they are used.

When buying a post mount disc brake sans rotor this is easy as you can just buy the adapter and rotor that you need, when buying a disc brake kit with the adapter and the rotor if you buy a rear one you will have a mismatched adapter and rotor so would have to either replace the adapter or disc to suit. Buying a front kit will give you all the bits you need.

Another issue I read on here was that someone stated their Triton with a welded on mount had to use a rear type adapter as it had the bike rear size spacing. I am not sure if that is specific to that individual Uni or is a Triton "thing". If it is relevant to all Tritons with a welded mount then they would have to use the rear bike adapter logic. Any Triton users want to clarify?

I hope that is of some help
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Old 2012-04-18, 01:35 AM   #19
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Here is a picture of my 26" Nimbus (disc brake) Oracle. I got a Fusion Freeride seat and a red cover. I customized (narrowed) the KH-T-bar according to Kris' recommendations. I switched the Venture2 cranks with a pair of 165/137 Moments I had on hand and I traded the 3" Duro for a 2.5" Maxxis HighRoller 3C tire. Finally, I installed my freshly LBS refurbished SpeedPlay Drillium pedals. What do you think? Yes, it is way to clean in these earlier pictures. I have added some dirt and mud since then. It looks much meaner.


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Old 2012-04-18, 02:11 AM   #20
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OMG. I've got to get one of these helmets. It's red and it's called the Oracle for goodness sake! It's like Bontrager coordinated with UDC. I have been using my road (mirror installed) helmet for MUni. Not working! Nonetheless $180 is a little out of my price range. Anyone suggest a cheaper brain bucket? It does not have to be this pretty but must be light and well ventilated.
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Old 2012-04-18, 04:43 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feisty View Post
I want a KH with a welded mount personally I think these look untidy sticking out so far, tucked up on the leg is where it should be, but then we are back to economics allowing for this small subdivision of a sub-sect of all unicyclers, retro-fitable disc brakes are the only real option for a profit
You could try the Mountain Uni UCM. It rotates the calliper up compared to the D'brake giving the unicycle a tidier look and prevents the hose from sticking out so far. But you have to remove the calliper from the mount every time you remove the bearing holder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feisty View Post
Another issue I read on here was that someone stated their Triton with a welded on mount had to use a rear type adapter as it had the bike rear size spacing. I am not sure if that is specific to that individual Uni or is a Triton "thing". If it is relevant to all Tritons with a welded mount then they would have to use the rear bike adapter logic. Any Triton users want to clarify?
I have an early disk tab triton frame. mine has a non-standard spacing and uses a 160mm front adaptor for a 180mm disk. I don't know if they have changed.
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Last edited by saskatchewanian; 2012-04-18 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 2012-04-18, 03:45 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saskatchewanian View Post
You could try the Mountain Uni UCM. It rotates the calliper up compared to the D'brake giving the unicycle a tidier look and prevents the hose from sticking out so far. But you have to remove the calliper from the mount every time you remove the bearing holder.



I have an early disk tab triton frame. mine has a non-standard spacing and uses a 160mm front adaptor for a 180mm disk. I don't know if they have changed.
I did see they were more upright but I am not sure how easy they are to come by now that braking project has sadly come to an end.

It must have been you I was thinking of, that is totally the other way around to the normal front/back adapter set up
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Old 2012-04-18, 07:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feisty View Post
I did see they were more upright but I am not sure how easy they are to come by now that braking project has sadly come to an end.
MountainUni is still selling disc brake kits, adapters, etc. I bought one of their kits after seeing the Oracle and deciding against going with a hub mounted disc setup. Kb1jki posted that they are not moving forward at this time with their new design for custom cranks due to costs. That hardly means the company is done. I'm expecting the new KH disc cranks will work with the caliper mount as well.
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Old 2012-04-18, 07:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
You could try the Mountain Uni UCM. It rotates the calliper up compared to the D'brake giving the unicycle a tidier look and prevents the hose from sticking out so far. But you have to remove the calliper from the mount every time you remove the bearing holder.
That doesn't make sense, if you remove the bearing cap brake mount, you are also removing the wheel, so why couldn't you remove them together and having enough hose you shuodl be able to uncouple them without removing the caliper from the mount.

A frame mount would be nicer and "tidier", but it's not a big deal, I have yet to hit my foot on the caliper or mount, and the reinstall of a D'Brake doesn't require break adjustment so it's a no brainer for the most part
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Old 2012-04-18, 07:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
That doesn't make sense, if you remove the bearing cap brake mount, you are also removing the wheel, so why couldn't you remove them together and having enough hose you shuodl be able to uncouple them without removing the caliper from the mount.
The UCM positions the caliper more at the top of the disc so are you not able to move the bearing cap down until the caliper has been removed or at least loosened quite a bit.



If you are not changing wheels often, having the caliper and hose closer to the frame and less vulnerable seem worth the inconvenience. If you are changing wheels often the D'brake is probably preferable.
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Old 2012-04-18, 08:28 PM   #26
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The UCM positions the caliper more at the top of the disc so are you not able to move the bearing cap down until the caliper has been removed or at least loosened quite a bit.
Hmm, I didn't realize it was quite that tight, seems like that may be a downsize of that design. Honestly, I have been using a D' Brake adaptor on the Oregon for a while and now I'm using them on my 26 and 29, I really can't see any reason to worry about the the caliper being removed with the bearing cap.

I remove my wheels for cleaning (rare), flats, (very rare), and tire changes (not so rare ), the brake always aligns just fine, there is no obvious flexing that I have noticed, even under hard breaking and me being a big guy. If anything were to flex, it would be the spindle/bearings in the bearing holder or the spokes/rim, and that would affect any brake.

On my first Oregon frame I had direct mount, now I have the D Brake, I found no noticeable difference in performance, nor did I have any increase in caliper impacts from objects or my foot. This is a non issue. The only reason to have a direct mount is for weight and aesthtics, possibly some convenience. Maybe the KH frames will work for both inboard and outboard?

What I do notice about the disc brake vs rim brake is that as I am riding down a rough trail and braking, the brake is far, far, far (did I say far?) smoother, which probably has a lot to do with the brake surface being free from the effects of rim flex.

Yesterday I got stuck in a huge downpoor, a perfectly dry trail turned in a miasma of muck, clay, organics, puddles, and through it all the disc brake just kept on working, then when I hit dry ground it cleaned up and no rubbing. Let's see a rim brake touch that!!
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Old 2012-04-21, 01:14 PM   #27
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Why IS mount? For unicycles it gives the greater options for adjustment and swapping discs. Having the adaptor in place allows greater ability to change settings. It also works best on the Oregon and for bearing housing mounting.

Why not post mount on frame? It was an option and considered. On our first Oregon we did mount on the frame as it was CrMO, but with the Oracle being in the pipeline it moved back to the d'brake concept. The manufacturing of forks/frames and getting them "square" through the welding and final hardening is just not easy. Bike companies go through lots of work (and cost) to guarantee position. The d'brake works every time, it aligns on the bearing that is a reference point for the disc and works with almost any unicycle frame - simple. I bet the bike guys wish they had such a fool proof method.

Why position the calliper so low? We tried higher on the first prototypes but this position seams the obvious one. It allows the wheel can be removed without changing any of the setting on the calliper. Also in testing it was show to not be a problem for catching either the calliper or the hose. (you can move the hose position so that it points in to the frame not out, that is what I have done)

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Old 2012-04-21, 02:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogeratunicycledotcom View Post
Why IS mount? For unicycles it gives the greater options for adjustment and swapping discs. Having the adaptor in place allows greater ability to change settings.
From what I've seen everybody using the d'brake is mounting the IS to PM adapter straight to it without any additional spacers - which means there isn't a need for additional adjustment beyond what PM gives you. If you want to swap disc sizes with PM, then you simply swap adapters in exactly the same way as with IS - the adapters to run larger discs with PM are just as readily available, and even easier to use. There is no advantage at all to using IS in this application - but PM has the advantage that those wanting to run a 160mm disc can do so without the need for another adapter.

Am I missing some other reason why IS is preferable, or do you not understand why PM works just as well as IS for the scenarios you mention?
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Old 2012-04-21, 05:04 PM   #29
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If PM works it works. But IS is more tollerant of missalightment when using a 160mm disc and is easier to integrate on to unicycle designs, particularally bearing mount.

From experience, I think that in time 180 will become the favoured disc size on unicycles.

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Old 2012-04-21, 08:57 PM   #30
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From experience, I think that in time 180 will become the favoured disc size on unicycles.
>200mm ftw!

Just got my hub and d'brake ordered along with some spiffy new spokes. My 203mm MT2 is patiently waiting in its box still - can't wait to get it built up into my KH29 next weekend!

Pics coming when it's done.
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