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Old 2008-08-27, 02:39 AM   #31
BillyTheMountain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfoss
Billy, I think you are guilty of lumping all Athiests together as if they're members of the same club. Or church. Or culture. No on all counts. I believe in freedom of religion (and the freedom from religion that must accompany it to work). Therefore I don't agree with the picture you paint of China.
John,

Thanks for taking a stand against the murderous atheist oppressors and the long murderous history of atheism!

America (and the world) needs more Atheists like you!

Billy
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Old 2008-08-27, 03:14 AM   #32
Seager
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The murderous history of Atheism?

Too much sugar in your diet?
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Old 2008-08-27, 03:42 AM   #33
BillyTheMountain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seager
The murderous history of Atheism?

Too much sugar in your diet?
http://www.scholarscorner.com/apologia/deathtoll.html

Rather than providing the utopia of idealism, Atheism has produced a body count second to none. With recent documents uncovered for the Maoist and Stalinist regimes, it now seems the high end of estimates of 250 million dead (between 1900-1987) are closer to the mark. The Stalinist Purges produced 61 million dead and Mao's Cultural Revolution produced 70 million casualties. These murders are all upon their own people! This number does not include the countless dead in their wars of outward aggression waged in the name of the purity of atheism's world view. China invades its peaceful, but religious neighbor, Tibet; supports N. Korea in its war against its southern neighbor and in its merciless oppression of its own people; and Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge kill up to 6 million with Chinese support. All of these actions done "in the name of the people" to create a better world.
Atheism's Tendency Towards Totalitarianism Rather Than Freedom

What is so strange and odd that in spite of Atheists outward rejection of religion and all its superstitions, they feel compelled to set up cults of personality and worship of the State and its leaders that is so totalitarian that the leaders are not satisfied with mere outward obedience; rather they insist on total mind control and control of thoughts, ideas and beliefs. They institute Gulags and "re-education" centers to indoctrinate anyone who even would dare question any action or declaration of the "Dear Leader."

billy
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Last edited by BillyTheMountain; 2008-08-27 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 2008-08-27, 04:34 AM   #34
Seager
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Billy, does atheism cause fascism or does fascism cause atheism? Can fascism occur without atheism and vice-versa? What role did the atheists have in the WW1 Armenian Genocide? Holocaust? (Hitler was Catholic.)

Could it be that maybe corrupt governments use religion/atheism as a tool to control their people, and that religion/atheism has no inherent value other than those given to them by their controlling regimes?
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Old 2008-08-27, 05:48 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain
Atheism has produced a body count second to none.
...in the same way that a lack of belief in pink banana penguins is responsible for every single death, ever. You should be complaining about the effects of Apinkbananapenguinism.
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Old 2008-08-27, 05:49 AM   #36
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The Atheisim imspires tyrany theory

I don't know, I see a lot of flaws in this. Was Russia less violently repressive before communism ? I don't remember the czars being any less oppressive or murderous. Few atheists look up to Stalin, but he did hold his country together and beat the theistic Nazis against very long odds, possibly saving 20 for everyone he killed claiming power. To say he was ruthless because he was an atheist, implies Hitler was a bit softer because he had faith.

China IMHO has historically been the most peaceful large country. They invaded Tibet, on their border. We took Texas and New Mexico. The English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German etc. Christians were never at peace though countless centuries of theistic based colonialism and exploitation. Save the soul and take the land for the cross ! The Chinese never did anything like that.

Do you have an explanation for why Europe is at peace now for the first time ever, while theism is at an all time low there ? Or are they at peace, how's Northern Ireland doing ? Have the atheists there stopped blowing each other up because we can't decide between cheering for the Chinese or Russian atheists ? Oh, that's not what the fighting was about there ?

I say China went from repressive horror under the dynasties, to a total blood bath in WW2, to a continued blood bath as Mao fought for power consolidation. After that, things have been slowly improving. Atheism is not their problem, it has been a grossly over populated shit hole with low regards for individual life for the longest recorded history on earth. How fast do you expect atheism to fix things ? It's not even a philosophy or uniting doctrine, just an absence of magic books.

For what it's worth, I am sure the old Soviets, and Red Chinese never cared about spreading atheism. They prohibit all groups that may organize against them. Atheists have no special rights or joy there and aren't permitted to organize groups of possible state opponents either.

The reality is it's never, ever, been a bed of roses in Russia or China. Do you blame christian philosophy for the evil of the orthodox czars ? No?, why blame Stalin's atheism for his brutal consolidations of power, that for all we know, may have been responsible for the defeat of those christian Nazis.

Last edited by feel the light; 2008-08-27 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 2008-08-27, 06:03 AM   #37
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The conversation is silly. Religion is a tool, not a cause. When you think of a carpenter do you think of a hammer or his brain? Does his hammer make him build things, or does his brain?
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Old 2008-08-27, 07:29 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfoss
The major difference with the big corporations, though, is when you go home at the end of the day and you're back on your *own* clock.

Also, in most cases employment is at-will, so if you stop liking their culture it's easier to move on.
apparently yes ..... but:
- some corporation tend to promote a sect behaviour: you must go totally with the enterprise clock
- for this and other reasons (such as: you won't find your job elsewhere) it is not so easy to quit. Other reason not to quit: fight within and try to circumvent "the system" (it's fun! ).

You'll have to live inside "the Firm" to witness what I am saying about big corps. (One member of my corporation wrote a fantastic blog -lafirme.blogspot.com- but now erased the history ... too bad!)

now I am in a small company ... waiting to grow
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Old 2008-08-27, 10:25 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain
Atheism has produced a body count second to none.
The problem there is causality - that quote suggests that the killing is a direct result of the atheism. You haven't backed that up, and are just repeating your original point. I'd agree with that paragraph if it started with "Power mad psychopathic nutters, who were very good at getting and keeping control, and who also happened to be atheists, have produced a body count second to none".
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Old 2008-08-27, 10:30 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain
From all the news, Atheists including Dawkins are going wild with celebration over Red China's huge PR victory at the Olympics!

Only Atheism is allowed in China, people registering to protest get tricked into arrest and condemned to re-education camps without trials.

China got it all and made no concessions to the olympic committee or the world!

a victory for anti-democracy is a victory for atheism!!!
ugh
thats not what we wanted...
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Old 2008-08-27, 11:41 AM   #41
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Oh, and atheism hasn't been compulsory in China since about 1980. They recognise and allow Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, and two flavours of Christianity. Hardly freedom of religion, but let's get it right. There are plenty of things about china to find objectionable, but is atheism really at the top of the list?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...Modern_history
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