Bambooni: Challenge to create a Bamboo Unicycle

[Killian]

Bamboo... (blah blah)... bamboo...

I think the look would be cool. Bamboo bikes look pretty unique. But as has been stated, I don't think it'd hold up. That's why we don't have carbon frames either.

I'm surprised at the OP's eagerness though. Why are you so hard up for a bamboo frame?

I think R&D in the unicycle world could be better spent elsewhere (36er wheels, Schlumpf options, etc.)

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by song

Unlike a bike, a uni is subjected to all sorts of rotational force when we pedal, or so it was written in some dark corner of this forum.

Possibly by me, in talking about my first Muni-specific frame; more about that below.

Originally Posted by MuniOrBust

It certainly would be amazing to find that bamboo is a superior frame material.

Yes, it wood.

Originally Posted by tholub

A "bamboo" uni can be made very stiff, in the same way that Calfee makes its bamboo bikes; by turning it into a composite. At that point it basically behaves like carbon fiber, and you can use carbon fiber for the joints.

Calfee does make some pretty cool bikes (they're the first rest stop on the annual Strawberry Fields Forever bike/uni event). You would have to use a lot of composite and carbon fiber though, which might take away from the bamboo-ness of it.

Originally Posted by Killian

Bamboo bikes look pretty unique. But as has been stated, I don't think it'd hold up. That's why we don't have carbon frames either.

Some of us do have carbon frames. Roger Davies used to make them, before the days of UDC. Aluminum lugs. I don't know if he made any after the advent of very fat tires though. Mine (from 1997?) only fits conventional-width MTB tires. It was with that frame I learned about the very high amounts of torque we put into a unicycle frame when pedaling hard. Such as when cranking up steep stuff. My frame broke at the crown lug, not from a materials failure, but just from a lack of epoxy in the joint. The fittings were so airtight, most of the epoxy got squeezed out during assembly, leaving a minimal amount in there. The frame was later repaired with some aluminum pins. But before I mailed it back to Roger, I tried to straighten it back out. It hadn't come apart, just twisted. I couldn't twist it back for fear of breaking something. That's how much torque we put into our frames, while the front of the seat presses against our legs and we crank as hard as we can.

I encourage experimentation with different materials. but the nature of bamboo, which makes it so useful for many things, is probably not the best material to use for a uni frame. However the same thing is true for bikes, but there are bamboo bikes out there. Why not unis?

[LanceB]

Maybe a 36" road cruiser would be a good candidate. Looking at the Calfee site, that seems like what it's best suited for.

Hey, maybe this is how we can get a purpose-built 32" frame! Hello Jaime Yann -- if you're looking for a void to fill, there you are. You can get the whole wheel assembly shipped for less than 100 bucks from Kent Bicycles (but you'll have to replace the hub). Just a suggestion.
Cheers!

[Killian]

Yeah, I've heard of Roger's frames and I think I remember a Koxx frame somewhere. Still, they aren't common place like they are with bikes.

[kerosian]

I would think a triangulated frame (similar to the nimbus impulse 36ers and old hunter frames) could solve some of the stiffness problems. Time to get myself some tubing and give it a whirl.

[Jaime Yann]

Originally Posted by Killian

I think R&D in the unicycle world could be better spent elsewhere (36er wheels, Schlumpf options, etc.)

This is what I have thought up and something I really think could improve unicycling outside of the pure technical realm through sustainable development, but other challenges in the future if there are other cool ideas the community is willing to support, such as 36er wheels or schlumpf options.

Originally Posted by tholub

A "bamboo" uni can be made very stiff, in the same way that Calfee makes its bamboo bikes; by turning it into a composite. At that point it basically behaves like carbon fiber, and you can use carbon fiber for the joints. It'd certainly be cool. Not so cool that I'll fund someone else's commercial R&D, though.

This wouldn't be funding someone's commercial R&D, since the reward would be released once the documentation to study, modify, make or distribute it is released in Open Licence. This R&D would be everyone's, with the benefit of rewarding the person who made it possible and shared it with others.

Originally Posted by LanceB

Hey, maybe this is how we can get a purpose-built 32" frame! Hello Jaime Yann -- if you're looking for a void to fill, there you are.

Thanks LanceB. One thing doesn't exclude the other. The idea is to get a working prototype of a bamboo unicycle capable of taking the kind of abuse we put into flat and street riding. I believe the kind of technology developped through the challenge should be transposable to other kinds of wheels and riding, such as freestyle, long distance, muni or trials, even if it is not completely straighforward.

The fact that it shall be in Open Source will allow for anyone, manufacturers or tinkerers, to adapt it to his or her needs, even a 32'' frame

Originally Posted by johnfoss

I encourage experimentation with different materials. but the nature of bamboo, which makes it so useful for many things, is probably not the best material to use for a uni frame. However the same thing is true for bikes, but there are bamboo bikes out there. Why not unis?

+1

[Jaime Yann]

Originally Posted by blueharmony

I don't see any bamboo BMX or Trials bikes, could be I'm not looking hard enough. Makes me wonder about Muni on bamboo, also street, trials, flat...

Well, it's not because it hasn't been made before it's not doable. But if we don't try, we can be sure we won't be able to make it.

And who know, if we pull it off, maybe we can enable a new generation of Bamboo BMX and Trial bikes, in the same way BMX and Trial bikes enabled Trial and Street Unicycles.

As the saying goes and all unicyclist understand: The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer

[tholub]

Originally Posted by Jaime Yann

This wouldn't be funding someone's commercial R&D, since the reward would be released once the documentation to study, modify, make or distribute it is released in Open Licence. This R&D would be everyone's, with the benefit of rewarding the person who made it possible and shared it with others.

As with most "open-source" projects, the idea that the information being public is the same as the product being public is fatuous. If someone develops a plan for a bamboo composite unicycle, I'll have access to it only if I pay a manufacturer to build the thing. I have no more ability to manufacture a useful bamboo unicycle than I do to create a useful code fork of MySQL.

[OneTrackMind]

The next stage would be a bigger challenge. The bamboo rim.

[muni123]

Originally Posted by Killian

Yeah, I've heard of Roger's frames and I think I remember a Koxx frame somewhere. Still, they aren't common place like they are with bikes.

Koxx made a small batch of flat/trials/street frames just before they went under. I tried one at unicon.

[paxuni]

Originally Posted by OneTrackMind

The next stage would be a bigger challenge. The bamboo rim.

Cane rims were used quite often on track bikes back in the sixties. At that time it was a light material option compared to what else was available.

Why track? They were tough to keep true if they got wet. Hence not an all purpose everyday choice.

I have a bamboo grove near my house. The frme iis a tempting Winter diversion.

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by paxuni

Why track? They were tough to keep true if they got wet. Hence not an all purpose everyday choice.

Interesting. I remember seeing old Artistic bikes and Cycleball (Radball) bikes with wooden rims. Those are both sports that are indoor-based.

[OneTrackMind]

How about an all wooden uni? What would the other parts be made of?

Bearings were made of wood until quite recently.

Spokes would be a problem.

[Jaime Yann]

Originally Posted by tholub

As with most "open-source" projects, the idea that the information being public is the same as the product being public is fatuous. If someone develops a plan for a bamboo composite unicycle, I'll have access to it only if I pay a manufacturer to build the thing. I have no more ability to manufacture a useful bamboo unicycle than I do to create a useful code fork of MySQL.

You are totally right. Actually this is also a critique that is done to Tesla. They have "open sourced" their patents, but they are farely safe since nobody has billions of dollars to replicate their factories and copy their stuff.
Besides performance criteria (strenght, weight, rigidity...) we are setting up some production criteria. The cost of materials and renting of the tools must be under 500 Euros, and the tools must be regular ones or easy to rent.

Originally Posted by muni123

Koxx made a small batch of flat/trials/street frames just before they went under. I tried one at unicon.

Is there any picture?

[jaco_flans]

Originally Posted by Jaime Yann

Is there any picture?

Here you go!

http://www.al4bikes.com/data/productos/karbone.jpg