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Old 2012-10-10, 08:28 PM   #1
Twente Muni
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Schlumpf learning journal

Yesterday my Schlumpf wheel and frame arrived from Germany. The other parts I took from my 24 Muni.
Specs:

Rim: 26 inch KH freeride, with the stupid holes.
Tires: Schwalbe Mudy Mary, 26x2.5. It is 67! mm wide on the KH rim. Weight 1 kg, and HUGE rolling resistance, great for leg training
Frame: KH
Cranks: KH moment 125/150
Saddle: KH freeride, with T-bar.
Brake: Magura HS33.

Today was the big day, the first ride on my new toy
The plan is to first get familiar with freemounting in high gear and riding in high gear. Shifting on the fly I will practice later, on a soft surface, not tarmac!

I first practiced riding of, from the wall in the backyard, just like my uni learning days three years ago
It didn't took long before I could ride of, maybe 10 minutes.
Freemounting in high gear also didn't take long to master, maybe another ten minutes.
I was ready for an evening ride around in the neighborhood, so I took my baby for a few km's ride on smooth tarmac.

First few hunderd meters were a bit of a struggle, but then the ride became smoother and faster, I even overtook a slow cyclist
I think I am in love with the uni

A few things I noticed, apart from the speed of course:

1) I really don't want to UPD on full speed.
2) The pedalling feels really heavy, it feels more like a 1:2 gearing. Maybe its the big slow rolling tire, maybe the hub efficiency? I am not going to change the tire yet, I need some good leg training.
3) The high speed gives a good straight line stability.


Some things I did NOT notice.
1) The hub does have some slop, but I did not notice it while riding.
2) I did not notice the forward pulling of the frame that some people mentioned.


After a few km's I dismounted and shifted to low gear. Now that feld really awkward, my balance was completely of.

I will keep you updated on my next ride.
This weekend I will try to ride some easy forest road in high gear.
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36" KH Muni, 2.25" Racing Ralph, 137/165 Moments
29" Qu-ax MUni, 2.4" Racing Ralph, 145mm quax alu
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26" KH Guni, 2.25" Rocket Ron, zero, T bar
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Old 2012-10-10, 10:12 PM   #2
Fatlazypig
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Freemounting in high is really tough
Good for you for getting it though

I had similar plans as you when I got my hub. I planned to get used to high gear. Then worry about shoring later

Had the hub 1 year now and I still cant start in high
To be fair I don't feel the need to

I think learning to shift on the fly is much easier than starting off in high

Just for reference my set up
Exactly the same as yours
Only difference is tyre

I went in the other direction. I started with maxis hookworm. As I planned learning to shift on Tarmac

The key to leArning shifting for me was shoes. With my normal shoes I was trying ankle shifting and I smashed myself to bits
Once I got my 5:10 karvers (the ankle bone protection is great) I got much better much faster

Have fun. I found learning to shift and ride in high as much fun and as sattisfying as learning to ride to begin with
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Old 2012-10-10, 11:37 PM   #3
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Just curious why you went with such a heavy tire? (about 3 pounds according to this site) (same here just to make sure)
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Last edited by MuniAddict; 2012-10-10 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 2012-10-11, 12:19 AM   #4
aracer
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What a timely thread for me - I'll just sign in here. Got my first guni on Sunday, and due to illness today was my first proper attempt to ride it. Is a secondhand (well actually third hand at least - I missed out on it the last time it was for sale, but have now bought it from the chap who beat me to it) original Schlumpf hub on a Schlumpf telescopic frame. Built up as a fast lightweight road 29er with a Mavic TN719 rim and a Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tyre, 150 cranks. Suits my original intended use of a guni perfectly, but I'm going to be so tempted to at the least try a knobbly tyre at some point (I guess given the square taper axle I should resist rebuilding onto a wide rim, as that will only make me tempted to do stuff which risks damaging it).

Only got 10 or 15 minutes of playing around whilst "looking after" my kids who were busy playing on jumps with their bikes, so only up and down our little bit of road, but did succeed in freemounting and riding a bit in high gear. No shifts as yet. Found mounting onto the wheel in high gear remarkably easy, as with a tiny bit of forward momentum you can pretty much just step up on the back pedal - though getting going is still kind of interesting, and when I did the speed picked up scarily quickly for the small space I had (and complete lack of protective kit ) Will have to go for the full set of kit tomorrow - including the knee and elbow pads I own but have never worn on a uni - and head out to the nice flat straight bike path and see what I can do. Given comments about footwear and shifting I guess I should also dig out my Shimano AM41s - I usually wear Vans Gravels except when it's wet and/or cold, but those are low cut and the AM41s have a high ankle in the inside.
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Old 2012-10-11, 03:01 AM   #5
muni123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twente Muni View Post
Yesterday my Schlumpf wheel and frame arrived from Germany. The other parts I took from my 24 Muni.
Specs:

Rim: 26 inch KH freeride, with the stupid holes.
Tires: Schwalbe Mudy Mary, 26x2.5. It is 67! mm wide on the KH rim. Weight 1 kg, and HUGE rolling resistance, great for leg training
Frame: KH
Cranks: KH moment 125/150
Saddle: KH freeride, with T-bar.
Brake: Magura HS33.

Today was the big day, the first ride on my new toy
The plan is to first get familiar with freemounting in high gear and riding in high gear. Shifting on the fly I will practice later, on a soft surface, not tarmac!

I first practiced riding of, from the wall in the backyard, just like my uni learning days three years ago
It didn't took long before I could ride of, maybe 10 minutes.
Freemounting in high gear also didn't take long to master, maybe another ten minutes.
I was ready for an evening ride around in the neighborhood, so I took my baby for a few km's ride on smooth tarmac.

First few hunderd meters were a bit of a struggle, but then the ride became smoother and faster, I even overtook a slow cyclist
I think I am in love with the uni

A few things I noticed, apart from the speed of course:

1) I really don't want to UPD on full speed.
2) The pedalling feels really heavy, it feels more like a 1:2 gearing. Maybe its the big slow rolling tire, maybe the hub efficiency? I am not going to change the tire yet, I need some good leg training.
3) The high speed gives a good straight line stability.


Some things I did NOT notice.
1) The hub does have some slop, but I did not notice it while riding.
2) I did not notice the forward pulling of the frame that some people mentioned.


After a few km's I dismounted and shifted to low gear. Now that feld really awkward, my balance was completely of.

I will keep you updated on my next ride.
This weekend I will try to ride some easy forest road in high gear.
you seem to be progressing a lot quicker than i have heard it takes most people.
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Old 2012-10-11, 10:13 AM   #6
UniMyra
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I got a 26" guni a year ago. I have never tried to start in high gear, but started to practice shifting right away. It didn't take very long before I could shift up - down was a bit trickier. However, it took quite some time before I was comfortable and enjoying myself in high gear, so stick with it Twente.
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Last edited by UniMyra; 2012-10-11 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 2012-10-11, 12:49 PM   #7
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I make it a point to rarely start out in high-gear so I can practice the upshift. However, on occasion I'll start in high gear if I had a UPD in high gear riding down hill. The downhill highgear mount is then so much easier to get going.

Regarding shifting in general; helps to have shoes with a more firm or hard heel that makes better contact with the shift buttons. Soft soled shoes make shifting much more difficult! Another thing I've learned being someone with small feet, going to a shorter crank size really improved my shifting (up and down) percentages. With the 150mm on my 24" uni shifting was doable but not so automatic, with 137mm cranks I can shift on the fly very rapidly. Something to consider.

I'm about to re-learn how to ride my KH-Schlumpf hub soon as I'm right now building up my new KH 26"! Should be a fun challenge!
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Old 2012-10-11, 06:45 PM   #8
Twente Muni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuniAddict View Post
Just curious why you went with such a heavy tire? (about 3 pounds according to this site) (same here just to make sure)
I have the lighter freeride version, that is 2.2 pounds.
I choose this one because it is the biggest tire under 1 kg.
Plus it has great grip in almost all conditions.
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Old 2012-10-11, 06:51 PM   #9
Twente Muni
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All of you, thanks for the shifting tips.

Right now shifting feels scary, I don't want to break my tailbone

I still have the the wrong shoes, no ankle protection, and soft soles.

I do have footballers shin protectors, which have ankle protection also.
I took out the inside ankle protection, for unplanned shifting.
Maybe I should put them back in when I start my shifting practice.

Some people find freemounting in high gear difficult, but actually it is easier then free mounting a 36er.
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36" KH Muni, 2.25" Racing Ralph, 137/165 Moments
29" Qu-ax MUni, 2.4" Racing Ralph, 145mm quax alu
24" Qu-ax MUni, 3.0" Gazza, 145 Qu-ax alu.
26" KH Guni, 2.25" Rocket Ron, zero, T bar
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Old 2012-10-11, 11:14 PM   #10
aracer
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The weather was pretty grotty today, so I never made it to the bike path I was planning on riding, but I did have a bit more practice outside my house and also took the Schlumpf to pick up my son from school - which includes a reasonable length of straight bike track. Managed to freemount in high a few more times, probably getting on for 50% success rate.

So I then decided to try shifting - at which point I had a problem, as mine is an original square taper Schlumpf which has the original Schlumpf crank arms. For some crazy reason the Schlumpf cranks have an outwards bulge in the middle (as can be seen at http://www.schlumpf.ch/hp/uni/uni_engl_preise.htm ). This meant that when I tried shifting my feet kept hitting the bulge and not the button - in order to be able to reach the button I not only had to move my feet back on the pedals, but also outwards to give me the angle to reach past the bulge - what a stupid design for cranks to use with a Schlumpf! Fortunately the chap who sold me the guni also included a spare set of straight crankarms, so I reckon they're going on tomorrow.

Despite all that I did manage a few upshifts without UPD. Including at the start of the section of bikepath on the way to school (I'd ridden the rest in low so as not to make it too difficult). Being slightly downhill it was so easy to pick up speed, and actually a bit scary - am going to have to work on getting comfortable with the new balance envelope. I shouldn't be surprised at how much of a challenge it is, as effectively I'm riding a wheel 50% bigger than I'm used to (have never ridden a 36er), and I do remember my 26er being tricky at first coming from a 20" beginners uni.
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Old 2012-10-12, 04:20 PM   #11
Twente Muni
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Aracer,

How were your first shifts, did you have nasty falls, or only UPD's ?
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36" KH Muni, 2.25" Racing Ralph, 137/165 Moments
29" Qu-ax MUni, 2.4" Racing Ralph, 145mm quax alu
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Old 2012-10-12, 07:27 PM   #12
Twente Muni
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Ride two

I have just returned from my second ride in high gear, I did 11 km on smooth tarmac. I am getting a little more relaxed now, my cruising speed is between 18 and 20 km/h. I am starting to notice the gear slop now, but it is not really annoying.

At the end of the ride I changed to first gear (not on the fly), and I couldn't freemount and take of . The feel in low gear is so different, my mind cannot deal with this sudden change at the moment, I hope practice will improve that. It takes some minutes to get comfortable in low gear again.

After the ride I practiced shifting next to a wall, inside the garage.
Shifting up, the cranks rotate about 20░ before engaging second gear, is this normal?

I also discovered that I really need new shoes, or I will hurt my ankles.

I have the feeling that the big tire is really slowing me down an tarmac.
I hope it shows its good qualities in the mud this weekend, it has rained a lot here last weeks.
But I think that I cannot resist to try the Schwalbe Furious Fred 26x2.25 tire I have on my MTB. A 400 gram tire with low rolling resistance.
Yes, I like to experiment with tires, like some other forum members
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29" Qu-ax MUni, 2.4" Racing Ralph, 145mm quax alu
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26" KH Guni, 2.25" Rocket Ron, zero, T bar
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Old 2012-10-13, 12:19 AM   #13
aracer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twente Muni View Post
Aracer,

How were your first shifts, did you have nasty falls, or only UPD's ?
Only UPDs, but I'm still yet to get any speed up on this uni, and going really slow when trying to shift.

I tried to change my cranks before riding today, but found the spare set wouldn't go on without interfering with the bearing holders, so for now I'm stuck with the Schlumpf cranks with a bend in. So I played around a bit with foot position and found that with my feet a little back from what I'd like I can hit the buttons with my heel, with the instep going around the bend in the crank. Would still like to get some slightly shorter cranks, 137 or 140 ideally as I don't think I want to go down to the 125s I have on my 29er unguni, but these seem few and far between in ST, and I've now discovered the problems I'm going to have with getting a set to fit.

Unfortunately I still really wasn't getting the changes with my Vans Gravels - tried kicking the button, but can't yet get the timing and sliding the shoe down the button doesn't seem to work. So back to the AM41s - will have to have warmer feet, though winter is coming so that's not such a bad thing and hopefully by spring I might have sussed shifting. Those are high tops (on the inside), so I should be able to change with my ankle, but in fact it was working with those sliding the edge of the shoe over the button - it seems the outside of the shoe is a slightly different angle to the Gravels which helps here. Managed several successful upshifts and eventually an upshift followed by a downshift. Generally managing to change without UPD now provided I don't have to work too hard to get the button press - though I need to get out somewhere I can use the speed and try going faster.
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Old 2012-10-13, 01:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twente Muni View Post
Shifting up, the cranks rotate about 20░ before engaging second gear, is this normal?
Yes. The hub has pins in it and when you shift it needs to rotate to the next position to be engaged. Also, it won't disengage until you let up some on the pedals, so if you keep pressure on the pedals it can take a a while until it actually shifts. I've consistently had it where it's taken a couple revolutions before a shift actually happens after the button is pushed, a problem I have on my isis schlumpf and not on my old square taper schlumpf.
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Old 2012-10-13, 01:59 PM   #15
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Thanks all for documenting your experiences. I'd like to contribute mine. I don't want to sound arrogant, so please don't take it that way. After reading people's difficulties I was extremely nervous about the learning curve. My perspective is to hopefully encourage others who read this.

I just got a 36 Schlumpf (Hunter) a few days ago. Due to some technical difficulties I didn't get a chance to ride it until a couple of days ago. To say that I was nervous about shifting and falling was an understatement.

I rode it to work in 1:1. On the way home I figured I'd try high gear. The first time I shifted (standing still) and tried to ride I didn't get more than a revolution of the cranks before falling off. Falling isn't the right word- more like stepping off. After a few more tries I could ride a few pedal strokes in a straight line. I needed to head home so I rode 1:1 for a bit then found a utility pole I could hold on to and ride away from on a low traffic street.

After a couple of tries I got high gear starts to work, but was still struggling with turning and general control.

I went home, took a short nap, and headed to a low traffic neighborhood (with off street parking should things go awry) to give shifting a try. I was pretty freaked out, but determined to get it. The first time I hit the button and got it to shift (after a few tries) I stepped off the back when it shifted into high. A few more tries (5.10 Impact 2 shoes, size 12, and 137 cranks) and I could get it to shift into high while riding without falling off. I was getting the high gear riding under control too.

Then I came to a rise and needed to downshift.

The downshift was making more nervous than the upshift as I was thinking I could easily taste tarmac by flying off the front. Surprisingly, this wasn't the case. Of course I wasn't moving fast, but I was moving.

I kept practicing (looking at the buttons to make sure I had actually shifted) for a bit and was getting OK at shifting on the fly. A bit more practice and I was able to shift without looking at the buttons and on slight up and down grades.

High gear was becoming much more intuitive as well. The bit of backlash is still a bit weird, but control is becoming normal. I didn't have a speedometer on, but from thousands of miles of ungeared experience I'd guess I was in the 15-18mph range in high gear.

Once I got used to the bit of backlash and shifting, the weirdest thing I experienced was the funkiness that occurs when my legs have to adjust my balance from pedaling high gear to pedaling low gear. It is really a weird experience.

I did UPD a few times, but never was it more than just stepping off the back of the uni when shifting gears and I lost my balance when the cranks were moving to lock into position in the other gear. I never totally bailed.

Within an hour of starting I got somewhat proficient at riding the Schlumpf and shifting on the fly. I tend to think that the 36 will be the hardest to learn due to 1.5 x 36" being > 1.5 x a smaller wheel.

I think the Schlumpf would be a total blast in a 26" Muni.

Once again, I'm not trying to be arrogant. Hopefully those who are reading and thinking about a Schlumpf aren't completely scared as I was.
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