How can we unicyclists help the hurricane victims?

[GILD]

i posted the original letter in this thread because it outlined specific and practical steps people could/can take to get involved in helping the people most directly affected

right or wrong, there are people involved in this discussion who value the opinion of people like Michael Moore and when trying to find avenues into which to channel their contributions, would value his suggestions or 'endorsement', if u will

it was only "proudyankee(sic)'s" irrational outbursts that turned it into a political issue

i tried to indicate to him that he was missing the point

when it became obvious that he was ideologically unable to seperate his political views from the practical ones at hand, i walked away as that was the very last discussion i wanted to see in this thread
that discussion is well served in UniZorro's Has Katrina Changed Your Opinion Of Bush thread where i'm still trading op-ed piece for blog-post with john childs, both of us waiting for the other to blink first, or wear out our Copy/Paste buttons

when i received the follow-up piece from Moore this morning, i considered posting it in that thread and decided against it for the very reasons that lead me to posting the original letter here
concrete steps are being taken to help people in need and there are several suggestions of actions to answer the question: How can we unicyclists help the hurricane victims?

by dismissing them based on the politics of the person organising such action, u are taking a step in the direction of a frighfully slippery slope and running the risk of undermining legitimate aid projects

if the organiser was a woman and u rejected it, u would be reviled as a sexist
if the organiser was an African-American and u rejected it, u would be reviled as a racist
but because it's Michael Moore, suddenly i'm the bad guy?

we should talk about this at the halfway stop on our ride

[unicycle6869]

Originally posted by bugman
Wrong or right, Michael Moore is a Politically polarizing individual. By posting his "letters" in this thread, you have taken the focus away from helping the people affected by Katrina, and made this into a political thread.

Lets get the focus off of politics, and back on helping the evacuees, refugees and all others that have had their worlds turned upside down by this tragedy.

Yes and No. He has in a way made this thread more political than it was but he is still trying to help the evacuee's by posting this letter. It states what we all can do to help people immediately which is very important in this case so I think that the posted letter is definetly a way to help the people of New Orleans. No need to complain about someone posting a letter of how to help (even if it's by a political person). The only way to make this a political thread is if people start responding about it (which they shouldn't), so don't. Start a new thread if you want to talk politics. For now keep the letters pouring in as long as they state how you can help victims.

[GILD]

At the risk of waking the sleeping dog...

My decision to post Moore's call for assistance in this thread came in for some criticism.
I do not wish to restart that discussion.
In fairness I did want to post an update to indicate what kind of assistance his efforts managed to generate. If you feel it is tainted and doesn't count as 'real help', please take it up with the recipients.

This is an excerpt from his most recent newsletter.

Selah.

** Over 500 tons of food, water, clothing, medical supplies, baby products, feminine hygiene products, cleaning supplies, power tools, and a boat and trailer for reaching those still flooded by water have been distributed directly to those in need

** Over 10,000 aid packages have been sent by you via UPS and FedEx to our camp and distributed

** Over two million dollars in donations, food, water, and supplies have been sent and distributed

** Tractor trailers, dozens of 20 foot trucks, six school buses, and other vehicles arrived loaded with supplies. Most stayed on to help distribute donations

** Over 200 chainsaws, 100 generators and 2,000 gallons of bleach have been distributed

** Over 100 people were walked through the FEMA application process

** Doctors, Physician's Assistants, Nurse Practitioners, Psychologists, Registered Nurses, LPNs, Paramedics, Emergency Medical Technicians, and Social Workers have volunteered from across the country and joined forces to create several mobile medical units providing prescription medication, first aid supplies, diabetic testing equipment, insulin and tetanus shots for those digging through the rubble of their homes

** 14 people were reunited with their families

[ChangingLINKS.com]

How much of that aid came from unicyclists after reading your posts?

While you trumpet the point that "good work was done",
you clearly are overlooking the point that your posts may
have been inappropriate, a distraction, as well as an
undermining force for aid from THIS forum.

I can understand *why* you posted, and even how one
can overlook political correctness in dealing with others.

My hope is that you can also see that while your posts
highlight good things (while including politics) there may
have been a net NEGATIVE effect by posting them.



Note:
Please note that I'm barring the observation that this
board was slow to respond and many of the ideas for
assisting the victims were unicyclist based. In other
words, we may not have made a difference sans Moore,
and thus no real harm was done by posting his letters.

[GILD]

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

How much of that aid came from unicyclists after reading your posts?

How much of any aid came from unicyclists after reading this thread?

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

While you trumpet the point that "good work was done"

I don't think 'trumpet' is entirely fair.
'Mention', 'point out' or 'bring to attention' covers it in my mind.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

you clearly are overlooking the point that your posts may have been inappropriate, a distraction, as well as an
undermining force for aid from THIS forum.

Far from 'overlooking' it, I engaged in spirited discussion/debate with other members of these fora about those specific topics. That we all left the discussion with nary a mind changed is hardly proof that it was 'overlooked'.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

as well as an
undermining force for aid from THIS forum.

Pray tell how?
Are you actually suggesting that by posting those calls for assistance, I caused members of these fora who were about to make donations or lend aid to organizations of their choice to stop and say :"No, if Michael Moore are helping those people, I want nothing to do with it" and withhold their support?
The idea is preposterous.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

I can understand *why* you posted, and even how one can overlook political correctness in dealing with others.

I don't quite get the drift here. Are you suggesting that I behaved in a 'politically incorrect manner in my dealings with others'?
That's funny. As a matter of fact, that's so funny it's almost gay. (insert ironic smiley of your choice.)

[unicycle6869]

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

How much of that aid came from unicyclists after reading your posts?

While you trumpet the point that "good work was done",
you clearly are overlooking the point that your posts may
have been inappropriate, a distraction, as well as an
undermining force for aid from THIS forum.

I can understand *why* you posted, and even how one
can overlook political correctness in dealing with others.

My hope is that you can also see that while your posts
highlight good things (while including politics) there may
have been a net NEGATIVE effect by posting them.



Note:
Please note that I'm barring the observation that this
board was slow to respond and many of the ideas for
assisting the victims were unicyclist based. In other
words, we may not have made a difference sans Moore,
and thus no real harm was done by posting his letters.

I'm sorry but this post made no sense to me. Could you explain it better? I agree with Gild on what he said in response.

How much, you ask, did his post of Micheals letter help? Well, at least one person, myself, after reading his letter, I went to his website and donated. How can unicyclists help? By doing what Micheal Moore's letter said=very very appropriate for this thread.

[ChangingLINKS.com]

OK.
You (unicycle6869 GILD) really believe that posting the inflammatory letter
was appropriate?

Without counting, I'm going to guess there are more posts that
mention the politics than there are posts without politics.

That's good? Sure. If that was the purpose.

If that's "OK" with you, and you really feel that it was in the best interests
to post an inflammatory message (with the inflammatory parts included)
then fine.

The words "Shame" and "Opportunist" come to my mind.
I have nothing more to say on the matter.



// not a bush (current administration) appologist or supporter.

[GILD]

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

OK.
You (i'm taking out jamey's name cause I don't speak for him) GILD) really believe that posting the inflammatory letter
was appropriate?

I don't accept your attempt to frame this discussion by unilaterally declaring the letter to be 'inflammatory'.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

Without counting, I'm going to guess there are more posts that
mention the politics than there are posts without politics.

This is no way to be taken seriously in any discussion. If you couldn't be bothered to check your fact before making accusations, it might not be the best idea in the world to broadcast the fact before making the allegations.

What you will find is repeated calls from all parties for this discussion to remain politically neutral. This does not mean that people with a political profile are automatically disqualified from assiting in the aid efforts.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

That's good? Sure. If that was the purpose.

No it was not and you'll find ample evidence of that. If you could be bothered with the facts in question before sprouting opinions. Not a likely scenario.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

If that's "OK" with you, and you really feel that it was in the best interests
to post an inflammatory message (with the inflammatory parts included)
then fine.
The words "Shame" and "Opportunist" come to my mind.

My 'framing' comments at the beginning of this post refers.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

I have nothing more to say on the matter.

You don't automatically become right simply by stomping off in a huff of righteous indignation. Not do you neccesarily become wrong either. Frankly, you don't achieve much really. At the time of 'Proudyankee(sic)'s' original outbursts, I chose to walk away from the discussion because I felt the whole situation was much to sensitive to have a discussion about the impact of knee-jerk reactions to genuine aid efforts organised by people with whom you have personal and/or ideological differences.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

// not a bush (current administration) appologist or supporter.

Fair enough.
You have some moments of sounding like some of them tho.

[GILD]

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

OK.
You ((I'm taking out Jamey's name cause I don't speak for him) GILD) really believe that posting the inflammatory letter
was appropriate?

I don't accept your attempt to frame this discussion by unilaterally declaring the letter to be 'inflammatory'.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

Without counting, I'm going to guess there are more posts that
mention the politics than there are posts without politics.

This is no way to be taken seriously in any discussion. If you couldn't be bothered to check your facts before making accusations, it might not be the best idea in the world to broadcast that before making said allegations.

What you will find is repeated calls from all parties for this discussion to remain politically neutral. This does not mean that people with a political profile are automatically disqualified from assisting in the aid efforts.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

That's good? Sure. If that was the purpose.

No it was not and you'll find ample evidence of that. If you could be bothered with the facts in question before sprouting opinions. Seemingly not a likely scenario.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

If that's "OK" with you, and you really feel that it was in the best interests
to post an inflammatory message (with the inflammatory parts included)
then fine.
The words "Shame" and "Opportunist" come to my mind.

My 'framing' comments at the beginning of this post refers.
I've also never been involved in a 'name-calling' exercises on these fora in the past and I don't intend to start now. I can only respectfully request the same approach from yourself.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

I have nothing more to say on the matter.

You don't automatically become right simply by stomping off in a huff of righteous indignation. Nor do you necessarily become wrong. Frankly, you don't achieve much really. At the time of 'Proudyankee(sic)'s' original outbursts, I chose to walk away from the discussion because I felt the whole situation was much to sensitive to have a discussion about the impact of knee-jerk reactions to genuine aid efforts organized by people with whom you have personal and/or ideological differences.

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

// not a bush (current administration) apologist or supporter.

Fair enough.
You have some moments of sounding like some of them tho.

[unicycle6869]

Originally Posted by ChangingLINKS.com

OK.
You (unicycle6869 GILD) really believe that posting the inflammatory letter
was appropriate?

I do believe that posting the letter (unflammatory or not) was very appropriate because it did exactly what this thread is titled: "How can unicyclist help..?" And this was just one of the many ways unicyclists could help. And it worked/helped because it got at least one person to donate. Now if you didnt' agree with it you didn't have to donate but could choose to ignore it and do some of the other ideas. And simply think, "I don't agree with Michael Moore or what he's doing but at least he's trying to help and if that post gets at least one person to help, then I'm fine with that and happy it helped".