Religion and war...

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally posted by andrew_carter
What was the penalty of the would-be soldiers refusing to go to war? Prison? That was the assumption I made in my original post when I said, "I understand that conscription was sometimes an issue, but I know for sure that I would rather spend my life in prison than kill somebody, much less kill somebody I've never met before because somebody I've never met before told me it's the right thing to do...and there are few things I'd like less than to spend my life in prison!".

Andrew

I can't imagine anyone wants to spend time in prison.

Divinity students and religious persons, like Dave Dellinger (who only died last year), Frs. Daniel Berrigan and David Berrigan, and others are among the many who have repeatedly gone to prison for their antiwar activities.

After sending a statement of their refusal of conscription for WWII to numerous newspapers, Dellinger was ultimately sent to Danbury Federal Prison. The prison was racially segregated at the time 1940. Dave had no respect for unjust rules. So of course, on movie night he's walking to the auditorium talking with a Black inmate, and upon entering the auditorium, he proceeds to sit with the Black inmate, instead of in the White section.

He spent 30 days in segregation punishment for this. I'm sure that upon release from seg, he did the same thing again, and again.

Danbury Federal Prison was racially integrated in 1943.

[andrew_carter]

Thanks for that.

I can't imagine anyone wants to spend time in prison.
- I can't imagine many people want to kill people either.

Are the numbers who refused conscription so few that we know most of their names?

Thanks,
Andrew

[gerblefranklin]

Originally posted by andrew_carter

- I can't imagine many people want to kill people either.

The US military is almost entirely volunteer (some are forced into service by family, other situations).

Harper, good one.

Catboy, tell a college professor that you had no intent of plagarizing passages from a term paper when he gives you an F on it. His response will be very similar to yours, "Deal with it whiney boy." If you didn't write it, cite it.

[andrew_carter]

Originally posted by gerblefranklin
The US military is almost entirely volunteer (some are forced into service by family, other situations).

Sure, but most of them would see killing people as an unpleasant necessity to 'national security' or whatever they are fighting for wouldn't they? Just like the few people choosing jail time over military service would see that as unpleasant but a necessity in avoiding killing people. I don't personally know any military people so I don't know how they think about these things.

[Catboy]

Originally posted by gerblefranklin
Catboy, tell a college professor that you had no intent of plagarizing passages from a term paper when he gives you an F on it. His response will be very similar to yours, "Deal with it whiney boy." If you didn't write it, cite it.

Newsflash. This isn't college.

This just in: I'm not a moron, and nobody cares.

[Fuego]

jeez. This is a debate on an interesting topic. Catboy was posting something to constrain the debate to the topic, avoid flamewars, etc. He got a minor flame session for not citing his post. Kinda beside the point, don't ya think? Off topic, anyone? Not only that, I'm contributing to the off topic bit by posting this. Sad, really.


I wish I knew something relevant to the debate so I could offer an insight or opinion or something. That would make this post less pointless.

[mucRider]

Originally posted by andrew_carter
Thanks for that.

Are the numbers who refused conscription so few that we know most of their names?

Thanks,
Andrew

No. During Viet Nam, there were many. Many thousands of "draft dodgers" crossed the open border into Canada in order to avoid the draft and to avoid prosecution (jail). After Viet Nam was over, they were pardoned by President Jimmy Carter which meant they were not prosecuted for refusing conscription.

[andrew_carter]

Interesting. Good on him I reckon, but I bet he wasn't too popular, right?

Andrew

[mucRider]

Originally posted by andrew_carter
Interesting. Good on him I reckon, but I bet he wasn't too popular, right?

Andrew

Correct. The people who did go to Viet Nam were very unhappy over the pardons. Can you blame them? They went to southeast Asia, often against their wishes, experienced the traumas of war and a large group of people who thumbed their noses at their government got off without even a slap on the wrist.

[gerblefranklin]

Originally posted by andrew_carter
Sure, but most of them would see killing people as an unpleasant necessity to 'national security' or whatever they are fighting for wouldn't they?

Yes, this is likely the case, although with military conscription you should analyze it on a case by case basis. Either way, if they are killing for national security, does that make it okay? They still joined, knowing exactly what they would be asked to do, which means they had already come to terms with the idea of assisting in a mass murder machine, albeit one with a giganitic budget and a "humane cause".

[andrew_carter]

Exactly.