900-1000g 36" tire, anyone interested?

[knoxuni]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

I got an email from Dave Cox of Canada, he is receiving a tire on Monday and is planning to bring it with him to NAUCC, so look for him and take a ride, he said that he was expecting to have lots of folks interested in riding it

Matt said that he will ask for info on durometer and TPI, but as far as max psi, he has pumped the tire up to 65psi to set the bead and didn't have any problems.

I'm sure it's a well made tire, it certainly feels like it, but it'd be a shame to trash a tire testing a theory, so it's probably a safe bet to use 32psi which is Coker's suggested psi for all of their tires.

I used 35psi to seat the tire and it was quite firm. I'm sure Dave would be happy to see how much pressure his tire will handle

More titillating pics:

that picture was taken at concord!

[Nurse Ben]

I had such an amazing ride for my birthweek. That's right, I get a whole week of birthday celebration. Why restrict yourself to a single day?!

We escaped the heat of the Tennessee Vallley with a trip to Asheville, North Carolina, where I had a wonderful meal with Mrs. Nurse Ben, and wandered the streets until it was time for bed and a good book.

I got up early this morning and headed to Bent Creek Experimental Forest:

http://www.mtbikewnc.com/maps/bcmapstandard.html

There are a lot of fast single and double track trails at Bent Creek, the perfect place to test out a 36er trail tire. I started with a short loop on Lower Sidehill to test out my super long 180mm cranks. Then swapped out to short cranks (165mm) and did a complete out and back on Lower Sidehill plus a little gravel road action, ~7miles of moderate technical single track.

The terrain would be considered technical XC to most mountain bikers, with small rock gardens, roots, water crossings, banked DH styled turns, some steep climbs, and a few fast dowhills. I really appreciated the lightweight and cushy ride of this tire, it is so much nicer to ride than the Coker. I also found that I could do with less leverage (shorter cranks) now that I had less crowning, more traction, and of course less weight on the outside of the wheel.

The nail in the coffin was my "road ride" where I did a couple miles on firm packed gravel roads and "tried" to make the tire crown and it just wouldn't, it tracked straight with very little correction needed, and that was with me being tired!

I am now running 18psi, a pressure that gives a soft ride, but sill provides enough support to prevent rim shots on roots and rocks.

I asked Matt about his timeline...

[scott ttocs]

Hey Nurse Ben,

I do not mean to be critical, but the pictures you are showing of the route look like easy (and fun!) XC riding rather than technical XC riding. Should I assume it is more technical in other stretches?

It looks like a nice place to ride. Too bad it is on the other side of the continent.

Scott

[Nurse Ben]

I do not mean to be critical, but the pictures you are showing of the route look like easy (and fun!) XC riding rather than technical XC riding. Should I assume it is more technical in other stretches?

Yup, I don't usually stop to take pictures of the hard stuff, I'm too busy riding

The map shows topos and I think there are pics of the terrain on line; I only took those two pictures. The map describes the terrain as Difficult, I'd say it's more Moderate. In the terms of a mountain biker, it is an advanced trail, so not something you'd take a recreational rider.

Not too many riders would consider Lower Sidehill a 36er trail, esp the uphill, downhill, and rock gardens, but I find the big wheel really rolls the terrain well and it makes things harder so I don't get bored

I think it's probably time to get a Go Pro...

Here are some on-line pics that show the terrain features:

http://www.mtbikewnc.com/images/regu...flat_rocky.jpg
http://www.mtbikewnc.com/images/regu...nslick_int.jpg
http://www.mtbikewnc.com/images/regu...ehill_berm.jpg

[knoxuni]

why yes it is time to get a go pro!

[Nurse Ben]

More tire info:

Max pressure is 65 PSI, durometer is 60 shore-A (Racing Ralph is 67, Nevegal is 50-60 depending on model for comparison), and they are 36 TPI.

Dave Cox took one to the NAUC and showed it around, swapping unis with Sam Wakeling who had a chance to ride it on a hilly road; maybe he'll chime in...

In Dave's words: "I don't see myself going back to a Nightrider".

Expect the same weight as the current prototype, 1500gms, which is still 20% lighter than a Nightrider.

I have suggested that there is a good market for a lightweight 36" road tire, but for now Matt is solely focused on getting this tire into production. If all you roadie types buy a bunch of these tires and wear them out, the chances for an even lighter tire increases, hint, hint, hint.

Tires will be distributed direct from the Waltworks on line store front: http://www.waltworks.com/dev/index.php

There is a tentative timeline for tire availablity, but Matt does not want it announced, so keep your fingers crossed, and get that credit card warmed up!

And now, I'm off for a 36er ride

[uniShark]

I'm sold. High PSI sounds nice for road use; useful for my mixed on/off road rides.
Add me to the committed list to buy at least one (assuming they're not outrageously expensive).

[Nurse Ben]

My FOSS tube went down today, the valve broke off as I was airing it up, not a good thing at all and from the looks of the valve, I'd say it's underdesigned...though according the UDC I am the first to break a valve on the FOSS tube.

So, intead of waiting for a replacement tube, I got busy, and went tubeless:

http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...t=91217&page=2

A very happy 36er

[knoxuni]

I like

[redwelly]

I had a chance to try Dave's tyre on a lovely road climb we were doing out of Brixen. It did feel much lighter - even with Dave's 137 cranks compared to my 145s it was noticably more sprightly. The road camber was more of a problem but apparently it was a bit soft and that can be improved with more pressure.

While it would obviously be nice one day to get nearer to 1000g, dropping ~400g is still very significant and feels great. I would guess a lot of the saving is down to the sparser tread pattern compared to the dense cobblestones of the Nightrider. I agree with Dave-hard to imagine choosing a heavier tyre over this new one now. Wish I had one to race!

Sam

[mbeardsl]

Originally Posted by redwelly

I had a chance to try Dave's tyre on a lovely road climb we were doing out of Brixen. It did feel much lighter - even with Dave's 137 cranks compared to my 145s it was noticably more sprightly. The road camber was more of a problem but apparently it was a bit soft and that can be improved with more pressure.

While it would obviously be nice one day to get nearer to 1000g, dropping ~400g is still very significant and feels great. I would guess a lot of the saving is down to the sparser tread pattern compared to the dense cobblestones of the Nightrider. I agree with Dave-hard to imagine choosing a heavier tyre over this new one now. Wish I had one to race!

Sam

Glad you had a chance to try it. The camber is what I was most concerned about for the uni crowd, but at any decent pressure you'd use for road riding I imagine it won't be a concern (depending on rider weight etc).

I can also say from personal experience that the tread pattern is not the culprit on the Nimbus as I have cut down a tire by more or less removing half the knobs completely, which by extrapolation would have dropped about 75g from one tire if I had the patience to complete the job. I think the belt used and amount of rubber used have larger impacts on overall weight.

Also, since I posted it on MTBR today, they should be available near the end of Sept but we are working on final pricing calculations and delivery dates with the freight coming from overseas so I hope to have final details this coming week.

Matt

[Nurse Ben]

Thanks for updating us Matt! I'll take two when they come in

In terms of crowning, I don't have any significant crowning issues, certainly far less than the Coker Non Skid, not sure about the Nightrider as it's been a whiel since I rode one. This tire takes a couple rides to break in, so maybe the crowning that Sam experienced was due to it being a new tire or his being used to a worn Nightrider...

I have lots of miles on mine now, mostly gravel and dirt, but a couple asphalt rides as well. Great tire, so much lighter and comfortable to ride than the other two 36er tires I have ridden. It makes off road 36ers a reality.

The tubeless set up is working great! No burps on the trail, even when crashing into roots and abrupt bridge edges. I started with two bottles of Stans, so now it's been a week, so I'll be adding another half bottle for flat protection, other than that it's plug and play.

If you are in need of a 36er tire, hold onto your money, this is the tire you dream about, lightweight, fast, and comfortable to ride. What's six weeks

[Nurse Ben]

I've got a few more rides on the prototype 36er tire, running tubeless, finally had my first burp yesterday. I was climbing a tight single track and twisted hard on the uni, a little air and sealant seeped out the side, all I heard was a quick little hiss. I didn't lose any noticeable pressure, but I bumped the pressure to 20psi because the tire felt soft. I have noticed that the tire feels quite a bit more resilient with use, which makes for a very nice riding tire. It feels like a 36" Ardent, but a tad narrower.

I rode some pretty rugged single track over the weekend, Small Intestine at Raccoon Mountain, a trail that I have ridden for the past couple years on 26" and 29". I had two UPD's, both were non technical goofs when I was tired, also had a handful of walks on single move tight steep turns; these are turns I normally would get on a 29er.

I think the 36er as an offroad uni is really undervalued. I have been amazed at what that big wheel will roll, big logs, rock jumbles, technical sections that take work on a 29er are easy rollovers on a 36er.

I'll post some pics and maybe some video if I can figure out the editing

[GizmoDuck]

Originally Posted by mbeardsl

I can also say from personal experience that the tread pattern is not the culprit on the Nimbus as I have cut down a tire by more or less removing half the knobs completely, which by extrapolation would have dropped about 75g from one tire if I had the patience to complete the job. I think the belt used and amount of rubber used have larger impacts on overall weight.

Matt

A couple of years ago I cut down the tread on my Nimbus Nightrider with a knife, and kept all the rubber chips. I've since thrown them away, but from memory I weighed the chips at about 300g or so.

The biggest saving is from cutting off the side knobs, but unfortunately you notice a big change in handling- it's much harder riding on cambered surfaces now, and not that great when cornering.

I can't wait to try your new tyre- they look great. I'll take two! Will it cost a lot to ship to New Zealand?

[Nurse Ben]

I can't wait to try your new tyre- they look great. I'll take two! Will it cost a lot to ship to New Zealand?

Ouch!

Matt is a biker, so he doesn't come on the forum often, I get emails from him every so often, so I'll ask him about overseas shipping. When the tires are available they will be sold from Walt's website. They are wire bead, so they don't fold well, but they can be twisted into a figure eight so two tires woudl probably fit in a 16" square box. Still shipping won't be cheap. Maybe someone is coming your way from the States with a 36er, then they could just toss them in

I'm going to get two more!