Announcing the new KH gear for June 2012 - Page 8

munirocks · 2012-07-04, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb1jki

Kris,

It's been a while since I've been on the threads -or a uni for that matter. Thanks for the acknowledgement regarding the initial disc system brought to bear with a useless provisional patent, and sluggish investment. A bit of me still wishes I beat you to market by a year on the crank design, but you were already an established manufacturer and had backing. the crank product would be more costly and heavy than your version... (excellence is the standard you bring) and wouldn't have had a KH logo or Schlumpf endorsement. The ideas were there, like the caliper mount, also available in a less expensive form as the d'brake. Alas, you and UDC are well established and for good reason.

Product design and development took far less time than gaining confidence and investment, and the time was mostly spent on the forum developing the market and interest. I guess the focus for Jeff is to maintain conventional / custom unicycle sales as just another internet unicycle shop. Sadly, it seems the vision of competing in components has since dimmed. In hind sight, I wonder if we were really all on board with bringing innovation to the sport from the get go, or just establishing an e-commerce situation. Regardless, kudos dude, and as always, beautifully executed product and design. I am more impressed with your vision as a company than your prowess riding a unicycle -and envious of both! I respect your ability and willingness to take yourself, your company, and the sport to the next level.

-Eric J

I could still see a niche that you could fill with your own cranks:
If you offered similar quality Schlumpf compatible cranks with other lengths such as 160, 155, 145, 140 I'm pretty sure people would be interested.
You could make triple holed ones too. 17mm seems to be the smallest possible distance between holes (example: KH Spirit 127/110) so something like 154/137/120 or 162/145/128 should be doable. Now that or anything in between would get me and probably many others very excited!

vookash · 2012-07-04, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munirocks

I could still see a niche that you could fill with your own cranks:
If you offered similar quality Schlumpf compatible cranks with other lengths such as 160, 155, 145, 140 I'm pretty sure people would be interested.
You could make triple holed ones too. 17mm seems to be the smallest possible distance between holes (example: KH Spirit 127/110) so something like 154/137/120 or 162/145/128 should be doable. Now that or anything in between would get me and probably many others very excited!

+1

also you should promote UCM as a way to adapt old frames to Spirit cranks - it is designed for right side.

svzurich · 2012-07-04, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vookash

+1

also you should promote UCM as a way to adapt old frames to Spirit cranks - it is designed for right side.

Indeed, it is why I ordered a UCM and 180mm mount last week.

Especially important since I can't find the new KH26 frame anywhere yet.

munirocks · 2012-07-04, 10:20 AM

Maybe 18mm distance would be safer for a triple crank. So how about 162/144/126 or 163/145/127? For geared hub riders 145 would be a good all rounder position and then 163 for long and or steep climbs and 127 for longer flat sections. I think that would be very cool for the G26 and the G36 as well.

kb1jki · 2012-07-04, 04:05 PM

Hi guys. I just wanted to chime in, accept defeat, place blame, and move on. I would love to have had produced and competed with Kris's Spirit and still wish to do so. However, I need a motivated backer that is willing to see the value in the concept as Kris has with a willingness to go forward regardless of competition of well established competitors.
I had a completed design nearly two years ago but it was stonewalled. Even with potential significant investment, it seems I was forcing the project against opposing priorities. Instead of selling through several dealers to spread the cost for the initial run and burdening them with selling and some marketing, a convoluted site that isn't very visible took precedence. Now I see a lot of familiar faces in Kris's camp that otherwise would have stuck with us if the product had continued to evolve.
I have learned many lessons. I'm not too bitter, I blame myself for failing to argue/convince/motivate investment, but for now I'm out of the game. Therefore there is no need to thread jack, promote, or further discuss what I'm no longer involved in. I feel that I did influence and effect the development of disc brakes in the industry and I'll have to be satisfied with that. Buying spirit cranks costs a hell of a lot less than prototyping anyway. I just wish I knew that was the company position two years ago.

knoxuni · 2012-07-04, 04:35 PM

kb1jki thank you for doing what you did! you are the unheard hero in this situation.

rvs · 2012-07-04, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munirocks

I could still see a niche that you could fill with your own cranks:
If you offered similar quality Schlumpf compatible cranks with other lengths such as 160, 155, 145, 140 I'm pretty sure people would be interested.
You could make triple holed ones too. 17mm seems to be the smallest possible distance between holes (example: KH Spirit 127/110) so something like 154/137/120 or 162/145/128 should be doable. Now that or anything in between would get me and probably many others very excited!

What i said in this post http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93360
Is the solution.
Kris should make blank cranks with no holes.
So people can make there own length.

kb1jki · 2012-07-04, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bristlecone

Say it ain't so! The last time we rode at Lynn Woods, you turned up with four unis on your roof rack! Pick one up and go

-Jamie

Wow, good to hear from you. Hope you are well. I should go to the latest ride thread to see if you posted pics from the exotic land you now call home! There is a FB group page named after Jeff's company to organize local rides... post there if you find yourself visiting this area -it will be good to ride with you again.

munirocks · 2012-07-04, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvs

What i said in this post http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93360
Is the solution.
Kris should make blank cranks with no holes.
So people can make there own length.

It certainly is a solution for those with access to that kind of machining equipment.
But I think my suggestion isn't completely unrealistic either. Who knows, maybe Nimbus or Qu-ax could make some too if nobody else wants to.

svzurich · 2012-07-06, 11:38 PM

Kris, did anyone get the new KH26 frames in stock? Compulsion never received them and UDC says Out of Stock every time I look. I bought the UCM in the meantime, but really want the new KH26 frame.

Kimmie

danger_uni · 2012-07-06, 11:41 PM

It's possible they sold out very quickly. Maybe try UDC Canada?
http://www.municycle.ca/kris-holm-un...012-p-885.html

svzurich · 2012-07-06, 11:50 PM

Thank you, I see they do ship to USA. I will consider that.

I see they have only 5 units in stock. Ouch.

aracer · 2012-07-07, 09:38 AM

What's the availability for the new saddles? I spoke with UDC UK yesterday, and they didn't get any with their shipment of new parts. As I said to Roger, given the summer we're having, a non-absorbent cover is pretty much essential (also see http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...18#post1523569)

knoxuni · 2012-07-07, 11:51 PM

I am riding 137 Spirit cranks on my trials and they are quite good! I dont like them as much as moments tho!

Sponge · 2012-07-08, 03:57 AM

I haven't been on for a long long time but it's awesome to see these product updates!

I'm only going to comment on what fields I've experience with and this is in no way an out-of-the-blue criticism, just a point of curiosity and suggestion as I've had experience in various areas of frame design in both bike and uni and am always interested in how far it's possible to make the very most out of a frame.

The new IS disc mounts- it's always great to see evolution in your frames Kris and I think the introduction of disc mounts is a big step forwards for the future. But I'm thinking more long-term here in that these current new disc mounts I fear might cause unnecessary stress on the frame/mount itself after prolonged use as there is a huge amount of stress that disc brakes put on tubing and the mount itself. With all brake mounts whether rim or disc, the welding on of a tab/mounts can very easily end up causing a stress riser on the top edge of the top weld against the tubing or alternatively just snap off clean at the weld itself. I realise that unis don't put as much stress on disc mounts as bikes do just by nature but I'm just offering a suggestion for the future as I really believe in pushing out the best possible product/design from the getgo which is what I was striving for with the first Tritons back in 06/07 with their semi-flat crown design. That was the best I could come up with at that time but am always open to see how I could improve things as much as possible. I'm not making this current disc mount to be an achilles heel at all, I'm just suggesting that it seems too simplistic for a high-end brand and frame- and not just from an aesthetic point of view.

I don't think it'd add much to the costs of manufacturing to add a more reinforced/sturdy disc mount that is less weakening to the tubing it's welded against and be less prone to snapping off clean itself. Something simple, yet stronger, more rigid, and not too over-doing it, for future years' KH frames:

The separated tri-weld design with a longer than standard IS disc mount on these Inspired forks and frames are in a another league compared to the simpler standard tab welded on straight with only one line of bead when it comes to rigidity and resilience against snapping off or compromising the tube's strength. That gusset on the 2nd picture may be a little overkill for a uni but nonetheless that tri-weld/longer tab design in itself is far more frame-friendly and stronger at the welds than a standard short tab welded on in one straight line.

As said, I'm not criticising or putting down the new frames, I think they're top class. However I just believe a stronger disc mount design would compliment the level that the KH frames themselves sit at. Just some thought for next year's line!

---

One last suggestion for riders using disc mounts: get them faced!
See the silvered circles on the inside of the disc mount surrounding the holes? It's more or less compulsory on any high-end bike fork or frame to have mounts faced if you want the best possible seating for your disc caliper against the mount. Especially on disc mounts, something as seemingly innocent as the paint/powdercoating can leave your disc caliper not having the firmest, straightest attachment possible. Facing makes a huge difference if you want the very best performance out of your disc brake and usually only costs pocket money to get it done at a good bike shop.

2012-07-04, 10:20 AM	#109
munirocks money rocks too Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Freiburg, Germany Posts: 1,829	Maybe 18mm distance would be safer for a triple crank. So how about 162/144/126 or 163/145/127? For geared hub riders 145 would be a good all rounder position and then 163 for long and or steep climbs and 127 for longer flat sections. I think that would be very cool for the G26 and the G36 as well. __________________ µ-knee

2012-07-04, 04:05 PM	#110
kb1jki Unicycles on my mind... Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: North of Boston, MA Age: 40 Posts: 868	Hi guys. I just wanted to chime in, accept defeat, place blame, and move on. I would love to have had produced and competed with Kris's Spirit and still wish to do so. However, I need a motivated backer that is willing to see the value in the concept as Kris has with a willingness to go forward regardless of competition of well established competitors. I had a completed design nearly two years ago but it was stonewalled. Even with potential significant investment, it seems I was forcing the project against opposing priorities. Instead of selling through several dealers to spread the cost for the initial run and burdening them with selling and some marketing, a convoluted site that isn't very visible took precedence. Now I see a lot of familiar faces in Kris's camp that otherwise would have stuck with us if the product had continued to evolve. I have learned many lessons. I'm not too bitter, I blame myself for failing to argue/convince/motivate investment, but for now I'm out of the game. Therefore there is no need to thread jack, promote, or further discuss what I'm no longer involved in. I feel that I did influence and effect the development of disc brakes in the industry and I'll have to be satisfied with that. Buying spirit cranks costs a hell of a lot less than prototyping anyway. I just wish I knew that was the company position two years ago. __________________ Retrofit Disc Brakes to your existing unicycle today!

2012-07-04, 04:35 PM	#111
knoxuni wes style!! Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: central ohio Age: 18 Posts: 4,695	kb1jki thank you for doing what you did! you are the unheard hero in this situation. __________________ Be a dumbass experience dumbass consequences its full circle of dumbass And then, do it again. That makes it an infinite loop!

2012-07-07, 11:51 PM	#119
knoxuni wes style!! Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: central ohio Age: 18 Posts: 4,695	I am riding 137 Spirit cranks on my trials and they are quite good! I dont like them as much as moments tho! __________________ Be a dumbass experience dumbass consequences its full circle of dumbass And then, do it again. That makes it an infinite loop!

2012-07-08, 03:57 AM	#120
Sponge ゴールデン! Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 940	I haven't been on for a long long time but it's awesome to see these product updates! I'm only going to comment on what fields I've experience with and this is in no way an out-of-the-blue criticism, just a point of curiosity and suggestion as I've had experience in various areas of frame design in both bike and uni and am always interested in how far it's possible to make the very most out of a frame. The new IS disc mounts- it's always great to see evolution in your frames Kris and I think the introduction of disc mounts is a big step forwards for the future. But I'm thinking more long-term here in that these current new disc mounts I fear might cause unnecessary stress on the frame/mount itself after prolonged use as there is a huge amount of stress that disc brakes put on tubing and the mount itself. With all brake mounts whether rim or disc, the welding on of a tab/mounts can very easily end up causing a stress riser on the top edge of the top weld against the tubing or alternatively just snap off clean at the weld itself. I realise that unis don't put as much stress on disc mounts as bikes do just by nature but I'm just offering a suggestion for the future as I really believe in pushing out the best possible product/design from the getgo which is what I was striving for with the first Tritons back in 06/07 with their semi-flat crown design. That was the best I could come up with at that time but am always open to see how I could improve things as much as possible. I'm not making this current disc mount to be an achilles heel at all, I'm just suggesting that it seems too simplistic for a high-end brand and frame- and not just from an aesthetic point of view. I don't think it'd add much to the costs of manufacturing to add a more reinforced/sturdy disc mount that is less weakening to the tubing it's welded against and be less prone to snapping off clean itself. Something simple, yet stronger, more rigid, and not too over-doing it, for future years' KH frames: The separated tri-weld design with a longer than standard IS disc mount on these Inspired forks and frames are in a another league compared to the simpler standard tab welded on straight with only one line of bead when it comes to rigidity and resilience against snapping off or compromising the tube's strength. That gusset on the 2nd picture may be a little overkill for a uni but nonetheless that tri-weld/longer tab design in itself is far more frame-friendly and stronger at the welds than a standard short tab welded on in one straight line. As said, I'm not criticising or putting down the new frames, I think they're top class. However I just believe a stronger disc mount design would compliment the level that the KH frames themselves sit at. Just some thought for next year's line! --- One last suggestion for riders using disc mounts: get them faced! See the silvered circles on the inside of the disc mount surrounding the holes? It's more or less compulsory on any high-end bike fork or frame to have mounts faced if you want the best possible seating for your disc caliper against the mount. Especially on disc mounts, something as seemingly innocent as the paint/powdercoating can leave your disc caliper not having the firmest, straightest attachment possible. Facing makes a huge difference if you want the very best performance out of your disc brake and usually only costs pocket money to get it done at a good bike shop. Last edited by Sponge; 2012-07-08 at 04:05 AM.

2012-07-06, 11:38 PM	#115
svzurich Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 47	Kris, did anyone get the new KH26 frames in stock? Compulsion never received them and UDC says Out of Stock every time I look. I bought the UCM in the meantime, but really want the new KH26 frame. Kimmie

2012-07-06, 11:41 PM	#116
danger_uni Kris Holm Join Date: May 2001 Location: Vancouver BC Age: 39 Posts: 1,577	It's possible they sold out very quickly. Maybe try UDC Canada? http://www.municycle.ca/kris-holm-un...012-p-885.html

2012-07-06, 11:50 PM	#117
svzurich Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 47	Thank you, I see they do ship to USA. I will consider that. I see they have only 5 units in stock. Ouch.

2012-07-07, 09:38 AM	#118
aracer Registered Unicyclist Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Malvern, UK Age: 43 Posts: 1,038	What's the availability for the new saddles? I spoke with UDC UK yesterday, and they didn't get any with their shipment of new parts. As I said to Roger, given the summer we're having, a non-absorbent cover is pretty much essential (also see http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...18#post1523569)

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