New Mad4One Parts - Disk Brake Hub and more!

[olarf]

Jacob leads me to this thread, I missed it before, sorry. So some comments to your discussion.
Thanks to vicuniclub for his very good statement. There are a very view manufacturer in unicycle market so we all should be happy about new ideas even if we think they lead to the wrong direction. Finaly a bad design wouldnt be on the market for a long time for sure.
Also thanks to all other comments, we post the stuff to get comments to understand better what people think and want.
I also want to answer to some maybe still open questions (even Jacob answer the most so far.

1. this products are no computer animation, they are real and will be used while Unicon.

2. Mad4one ERGAL (ALuminium) Hubs with ISIS exist and work well until some limits. We see a physical limit at 125mm Cranks, All tests we do with longer Cranks end in bending or braking after some time under High Stress. As we don't expect that a beginner will buy our products, we expect more pro riders which usually bring a lot of load on the Hub/Crank System. So this special Design with grown Diameter and less pins provide the oportunity to use 135mm Cranks on ERGAL Hubs which result in a total weight for Hub / Cranks / Bearings from arround 720 gramm.
This design is tested since arround one year now and improved by Riders like Jacob, Mark Fabian, Kristof Horvath, Joe Hodges, Krisz Kovacs, Colby Danger Thomas... so you see those test kits have not an easy live

3. The Disk Brake hub will be availiable also as CroMo ISIS Version once it is in a final status. We develop in ERGAL because it is more easy and we want to have the perfect final Design before we start also with CroMo Hubs. So you will be able to get it with default ISIS made from peace of best steel, fitting to your favourite Crank in the future.

4. To cover the needs of the race riders we need to go for a small system and so we decide to make the splined system smaller but strong and create something simmilar to the special splined Design for ERGAL Trial / Muni hubs, just much shorter. So its light, small and able to handle big impact. A pro race rider wont have a need to exchange Cranks often, he can use this system for many years without any problem. He focus on the best possible setup and we work together with some very fast riders to develop it.

5. Buying in USA? Check out mad4one.com to see all reseller, we dont have one in the US but several in Canada. Maybe that helps.

I hope I forget no answer, if I did, feel free to remember me
Also those and other custom colors will be availiable for mad4one products after Unicon.

[Nurse Ben]

3. The Disk Brake hub will be availiable also as CroMo ISIS Version once it is in a final status.

Good to know, thanks for clarifying.

In regards to using a new standard, there really is no reason to reinvent the wheel, the biking industry has been all over this sort of design for decades, so I really doubt there is anything new here.

ISIS works fine, I have a dozen plus cranks in a wide range of sizes from KH, Nimbus, Try All, Truvativ, Koxx, QuAx, and they all fit slightly different so require different spacing, but they all do fit.

I am most interested in one piece hubs as I have had my fair share of creaking hubs where the hub spindle and hub body interface started to wear. It is really a challenge to make that interface durable enough for muni use, whereas a single piece hub/spindle would solve that problem.

My only concern with Mad4One hubs is the low flange height which can cause premature spoke wear/breakage due to the lack of flexibility in a short flange. Are the any plans to build a with a taller flange?

[Nurse Ben]

Also, my only wear issues at the ISI interface has been with a low quality cranks and it was in the crank side spline where I had some loosening, as you'd expect since the crank is Al and the spindle is Cro.

If Ergal is Al, then expect to have wear at the spindle as well as the cranks, though maybe al to al is better in terms of premature wear? Josh at UDC said that al spindleS were prone to twisting...so they don't recommend them for anything but freestyle or touring.

Due to the ID of the spindle bearing sleeve, the spindle can only be made so big, so really there is no way to make a bigger spindle unless you use a diffent bearing, but then a bigger spindle/bearing/bearing holder would weigh more so you are probably fighting yourself. Ti is a great spindle material, light like al and strong like Cro.

Make me a Mad4One ti disc hub and I'll buy them.

Any thoughts on building to the 125mm bearing spacing, like the Oregon?

[JacobSpera]

@Nurse Ben and everyone else

The only reason why the number of pins is different is so that the hub does NOT bend or break. The Diameter is NOT the same as the standard ISIS, it is BIGGER. You can not use standard bearings because of this but I dont mind it because the bearings are much lighter and save a lot of weight. I think bearings is a place that a lot of unicycle companies should look at. Its amazing how heavy standard bearings are compared to other parts on a unicycle.

About the smaller flanges, yes you will break more spokes (if you dont care of your wheel.) I have only broken one since I started riding small flanges and that is because I true my wheel after every ride. The one and only time i have ever broken a spoke is merely because I didnt take care of my wheel for a while and I under rotated a 360 off a 5 set.

A full Ti hub would be pretty sweet! I just cant imagine how much it would cost...

About the wide hubs, 125mm in spacing. I am not entirely sure if they will be made but I could imagine in the future something MAY be thought of.

[Nurse Ben]

So the OD of the spindle is bigger than the standard? What bearings are you using? Is the bearing holder sized for 42mm OD bearing or are you using a thinner bearing?

I completely agree, the bearings could be improved, made thinner, higher quality, as this could save weight as well as make the wheel more stable in the frame.

So what is the OD of the spindle?

[JacobSpera]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

So the OD of the spindle is bigger than the standard? What bearings are you using? Is the bearing holder sized for 42mm OD bearing or are you using a thinner bearing?

I completely agree, the bearings could be improved, made thinner, higher quality, as this could save weight as well as make the wheel more stable in the frame.

So what is the OD of the spindle?

The OD of the spindle is 25mm and yes I am still using a standard frame that is meant for a 42mm bearing.

[Philippe]

Originally Posted by saskatchewanian

Please tell me if I am wrong but it looks to me like the splines on the hub don't match up with the splines you can see on the green cranks suggesting these aren't the real deal.

Ergal is just another name for 7075 Aluminum, no reason for a new crank interface.

It seems ok for me. Look at the following picture it seems to be groved cranck+groved hub+(5?)keys.

Koxx use 25x42x12 bearing, these are perhaps the same.

[Nurse Ben]

So 25mm OD vs 22mm OD?

What's with the "pins" or keys shown in Philipe's picture?

When you guys decide to build a ti one piece ISIS compatible hub, let me know

[JacobSpera]

The pins are meant to be a weak link. They are mainly for the chromo hubs but the purpose of them is that they fail before you damage the crank or hub. So instead of having to buy a new crank or hub you just have to buy new pins.

[saskatchewanian]

Interesting.

If the pins are meant to be the weak link are they made out of a softer metal? Do they deform on installation to make a perfect fit? Can they be re-used indefinitely or should they be thrown away each time you switch cranks?

I am really curious how this system work out for you guys. I can see that it would be much cheeper to utilize than ISIS, especially on the crank side.


While compatibility with bike parts is nice Unicycling is getting big enough to carry it's own standards (like the current 22x42x12 bearing). Exciting times indeed.

[JacobSpera]

Originally Posted by saskatchewanian

Interesting.

If the pins are meant to be the weak link are they made out of a softer metal? Do they deform on installation to make a perfect fit? Can they be re-used indefinitely or should they be thrown away each time you switch cranks?

I am really curious how this system work out for you guys. I can see that it would be much cheeper to utilize than ISIS, especially on the crank side.


While compatibility with bike parts is nice Unicycling is getting big enough to carry it's own standards (like the current 22x42x12 bearing). Exciting times indeed.

Yes they are much softer! On the chromo hub you can see the pins deform quite a bit. You can still use them when they are deformed, they just squeak a lot when you ride hard. The other nice thing about the small flanges is that you can use bike spokes and have a small amount cut off vs having quite a bit.

No you do not have to replace the pins after you change the cranks out. But after a while using them you may want to so the squeaking doesnt get too bad.

[Danni]

I'm having problems with my early M4O hub and spoke breakage. The spokes always break at the j bend and only the spokes who have their heads on the outside of the bend. I have a feeling that the angle is not conducive to healthy spokes, and over time will fatigue to breakage.

Set up: 24" wheel with 170mm cranks, double butted spokes (sapim).
I know how to true wheels and my spokes have good tension and the wheel is true to a 1mm.

[JacobSpera]

Originally Posted by Danni

I'm having problems with my early M4O hub and spoke breakage. The spokes always break at the j bend and only the spokes who have their heads on the outside of the bend. I have a feeling that the angle is not conducive to healthy spokes, and over time will fatigue to breakage.

Set up: 24" wheel with 170mm cranks, double butted spokes (sapim).
I know how to true wheels and my spokes have good tension and the wheel is true to a 1mm.

This is where i have seen all failure of spokes on the chromo version mad4one hub.

Do all your spokes break at a time or is it like one or two? I know that whenever colby breaks his spokes its always a lot at a time.

[padst3r]

Originally Posted by JacobSpera

This is where i have seen all failure of spokes on the chromo version mad4one hub.

Do all your spokes break at a time or is it like one or two? I know that whenever colby breaks his spokes its always a lot at a time.

Colby does that with otherhubs too though

[JacobSpera]

Originally Posted by padst3r

Colby does that with otherhubs too though

he brakes more spokes with the m41 chromo hub. At EUC he didnt break any with the ergal hub oddly though!