Is Bipolar an excuse for bad behavior?

[Nurse Ben]

Even though I don't have ADHD, would ADHD drugs enhance my unicycle work outs and UNICON performance?

Maybe.

BUT, I have seen a fair number of folks who tried a stimulant and it caused any of the following:

Headaches
Nausea
Hypertension
Arrythmias
Irritable Mood
Sedation
Increased/Decreased Appetite
Inability to complete sex
Hair Loss

So, it's not whether it'll help, but whether you need it enough to deal with the side effects. Generally speaking, if you can do without, you should do without.

Oh, and Billy, they are not drugs, they are medications. You get drugs from dealers on the streets

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

Oh, and Billy, they are not drugs, they are medications. You get drugs from dealers on the streets

Rrriiiggghhht!

They just happen to be the exact same medications you can get from your dealer on the street

[harper]

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

They just happen to be the exact same medications you can get from your dealer on the street.

I have a dealer on the street? Where? I wanted to buy some Mexican black tar heroin.

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by harper

I have a dealer on the street? Where? I wanted to buy some Mexican black tar heroin.

You cannot get that in the USA. It's illegal!!!

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

They just happen to be the exact same medications you can get from your dealer on the street

No, those are drugs.

[MrBoogiejuice]

Originally Posted by johnfoss

No, those are drugs.

So where do nicotine, caffeine and alcohol fit into this ever so neat dichotomy?

Nicotine has proven medicinal benefits for people suffering from schizoid illnesses yet as far as I'm aware isn't yet prescribed as a medicine, but nor is it policed as an illicit drug - so what is it?

The lines drawn between different substances which effect their availability and the penalties for their use/misuse are not imposed with any kind of scientific consistency but are instead imposed depending upon the dominant interests of those in power and their favoured groups.

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by johnfoss

No, those are drugs.

whether the doctor prescribes amphetamines as ADHD drugs or as ADHD medications, and the kid with the prescription then sell the ADHD drugs or medications to his Ivy League bound classmates (they are among the primary users), who cares what you call it?

It enhances performance and gets the kids into Harvard.

Unlike the Mexican heroin for Harper ......

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by MrBoogiejuice

So where do nicotine, caffeine and alcohol fit into this ever so neat dichotomy?

Nicotine has proven medicinal benefits for people suffering from schizoid illnesses yet as far as I'm aware isn't yet prescribed as a medicine, but nor is it policed as an illicit drug - so what is it?

The lines drawn between different substances which effect their availability and the penalties for their use/misuse are not imposed with any kind of scientific consistency but are instead imposed depending upon the dominant interests of those in power and their favoured groups.

Yes!

But the tobacco industry is losing their power to the pharmaceutical industry ...

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by MrBoogiejuice

So where do nicotine, caffeine and alcohol fit into this ever so neat dichotomy?

Gosh, didn't you guys notice my joke?

Nicotine, caffeine and alcohol are all drugs. By the simple definition offered above, when the stuff is prescribed by a doctor/pharmacist, etc. it's medication. When you buy it illegally or for recreation/entertainment purposes, it's drugs.

What I know about nicotine: One time a doctor told me it's the most addictive substance you can buy (legally) without a prescription. And it most commonly comes in those stinky cancer sticks. Yuck. But many smokers are well aware of the relaxing effects of the nicotine, often using that as an excuse for not quitting their hard-to-quit habit.

Caffeine is probably the most commonly used "morning drug" in the world. Who here doesn't know somebody who can't function without it?

And of course alcohol is a drug, the most dangerous of them all. Not dangerous in and of itself, but because it's so widely used, and can make people do such stupid things, it probably accounts for the most deaths, injuries and costs in property damage.

Originally Posted by MrBoogiejuice

The lines drawn between different substances which effect their availability and the penalties for their use/misuse are not imposed with any kind of scientific consistency but are instead imposed depending upon the dominant interests of those in power and their favoured groups.

What we call in the country special interest groups. Or lobbies.

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

whether the doctor prescribes amphetamines as ADHD drugs or as ADHD medications, and the kid with the prescription then sell the ADHD drugs or medications to his Ivy League bound classmates (they are among the primary users), who cares what you call it?

Lawyers.

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by johnfoss

Lawyers.

Whether you sell your Ivy League bound peers your ADHD drugs, or sell them your ADHD medication, won't make much difference to a lawyer (unless she has some sort of oddity that requires drugs/medication.

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

...won't make much difference to a lawyer...

Sure it will. It all depends who's side the lawyer is on.

[Nurse Ben]

It enhances performance and gets the kids into Harvard.

Billy, I think you're giving medicine too much credit. Stimulants do not "do" the work, nor do they "make" you want to do the work, so if someone gets into a good school, they did it on their own merits (grades, test scores, essay).

This is really the crux of the issues, and what led me to start this thread, somehow we have come to believe that medication can change behaviors. This could be no further from the truth! I fight this perception on a daily basis with parents who insist that I prescribe a medication that will "make" thier teenage listen and do as they are told.

Riiiiiight, like any medication will change your mind, making you want to do something because your parents "said so".

Think of medication as augmenting what you already have, so if you have poor control over your impulses, you are easilly distracted, then adderall might help you control those impulses, BUT it will not make you want to study nor will make you want to list to your parents.

It's just medication, prescribed to address a chemical imbalance, it is not a cure all for behavioral issues.

And yes, caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine all have their pros and cons. In regards to nicotine and alcohol, we can all probably agree that the cons outweigh the pros.

[BillyTheMountain]

Performance enhancement drugs enhance performance, for athletes and for students.

Look it up!

Ivy League bound High Schoolers aren't stupid, and they know that ADHD drugs help them study and perform better on tests. They talk about the super focus!

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by johnfoss

Sure it will. It all depends who's side the lawyer is on.

In the eyes of the law, Ritalin is Ritalin, whether it's your ADHD drugs, or your ADHD medication.

It's illegal to sell it without being a pharmacist, an then only to someone with a prescription.

[ADHDsufferer]

I think that bipolar is HUGELY misdiagnosed. I went to counseling that was court ordered due to my ex and because I had separation anxiety from my three babies, had a hard time eating and sleeping, somehow I was diagnosed with it and never knew till today. No one else has ever diagnosed me and I do not show the s/s of being bipolar. I understand that ADHD and bipolar can have some of the same characteristics, but with me and my kids having ADHD, which is due to more school issues there is not the bipolar mania part and honestly, I do NOT understand how they can get the two so wrong.

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

Billy, I think you're giving medicine too much credit. Stimulants do not "do" the work, nor do they "make" you want to do the work, so if someone gets into a good school, they did it on their own merits (grades, test scores, essay).

(NON-NANDA Nursing DX: hard time focusing r/t difficulty concentrating, tiredness e/b thinking a lot, falling asleep after reading for 5 minutes, interrupting when someone is talking, rocking from left to right leg and right to left while standing, reading pages over and over and forgetting what I was reading, playing solitaire while in nursing school & answering correctly to instructor's questions.)

This is really the crux of the issues, and what led me to start this thread, somehow we have come to believe that medication can change behaviors. This could be no further from the truth! I fight this perception on a daily basis with parents who insist that I prescribe a medication that will "make" thier teenage listen and do as they are told.
(I believe as I have felt it, and know first hand that medication DOES help change behaviors in order to focus better. EX: epilepsy of 1000 seizures a day of petite mal from an EEG. I was given Neurontin and the depression, suicidal thoughts, and attempts went away. In fact, I am no longer diagnosed with epilepsy. However, ADHD is secondary to the epilepsy I had.)

Riiiiiight, like any medication will change your mind, making you want to do something because your parents "said so".
(Adderall has helped me want to study, want to do better as I was able to focus, and was not severely tired.)

Think of medication as augmenting what you already have, so if you have poor control over your impulses, you are easilly distracted, then adderall might help you control those impulses, BUT it will not make you want to study nor will make you want to list to your parents.
(Adderall did make me want to study because I was able to focus.)

It's just medication, prescribed to address a chemical imbalance, it is not a cure all for behavioral issues. (Adderall helps with ADHD, as well as help me have more energy r/t anemia.)
*We all have EVERY part of a mental disorder, it just depends how much the disorder is taking over our lives. You have to use your narcissism inside in order to obtain a degree as it IS abut you and your life, but not in a dysfunctional behavior.

And yes, caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine all have their pros and cons. In regards to nicotine and alcohol, we can all probably agree that the cons outweigh the pros.