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Old 2012-04-30, 04:46 PM   #901
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Originally Posted by Tucson Uni View Post
How much heavier is the 26x3 than the 24x3? I have contemplated switching to a 26X2.4 for the lighter set-up. I do like having the cushy ride of the 24x3 when going fast over rocky trails. Well, rocky trails are really all I have to ride in AZ
Not sure, but I know the duro 26x.3.0 is MUCH heavier than the ardent 2.4 (folding) I run currently. So I just need to consider whether the added tire weight of the 3.0 would be worth the added performance I would get. My thought is that the duro would make my G26er handle more like a classic MUni, whereas the 2.4 folding tire is great for more XC stuff, but not really the best tire for technical and rolling drops.

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Originally Posted by DavidHood View Post
I can attest to the 26x3 being a much more "cushy" ride than the 26x2.5 I talk about in this post. Then you can do some before and after photo comparison in this thread. I hope Terry (someone with the leg power to push it with ease) tries a 26x3 on his GUni. Double the weight in hub and now nearly double the weight in tire. Like the Oregon (as far as the 3" Duro compares to a 3.8" Larry) on (geared) steroids! I'd loan him my 26x3 Duro but I am still contemplating switching back.
I looked at UDC's description of the duro 26x3.0 and I'm sure they have the weight way off! They list it at 600 grams, but it's got to be closer to 1,600 grams, which is the weight of the arrow savage 26x3.0, according to the arrow racing website. I think I will end up trying the duro though.
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Old 2012-04-30, 06:14 PM   #902
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Originally Posted by MuniAddict View Post
Not sure, but I know the duro 26x.3.0 is MUCH heavier than the ardent 2.4 (folding) I run currently. So I just need to consider whether the added tire weight of the 3.0 would be worth the added performance I would get. My thought is that the duro would make my G26er handle more like a classic MUni, whereas the 2.4 folding tire is great for more XC stuff, but not really the best tire for technical and rolling drops.

I looked at UDC's description of the duro 26x3.0 and I'm sure they have the weight way off! They list it at 600 grams, but it's got to be closer to 1,600 grams, which is the weight of the arrow savage 26x3.0, according to the arrow racing website. I think I will end up trying the duro though.
The Duro 26x3 weights about 1500 grams (i did put it on a scale once but forgot the exact numbers), so i tried to save weight by switching to a lighter tube and lighter pedals.

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Old 2012-04-30, 07:55 PM   #903
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Having not ridden a 26, I always thought the advantage was to have a lighter wheelset than the 24, with a similar total wheel/tire height (slightly taller, but not so noticeably taller as the 29er)
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:47 PM   #904
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Originally Posted by Tucson Uni View Post
Having not ridden a 26, I always thought the advantage was to have a lighter wheelset than the 24, with a similar total wheel/tire height (slightly taller, but not so noticeably taller as the 29er)
Well the stock kh 24 and 26er MUnis have the exact same rim, but the 26er now comes with a 26x2.6 so the tire may be a bit lighter. But that may be offset by the slightly heavier 26er frame, so the total weights may be very similar overall. They are both listed at 14.1 pounds.

For me, I like the 26er's faster speed, but it's also close in maneuverability and performance to the classic 24 MUni. So my thinking is to try a 3.0 duro, with the assumption that it would improve handling over more technical terrain, much like that of the 24 with the same tire. The only uncertainty for me is if the added weight will negate any perceived improvement in rolling over tech terrain, ect.
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Old 2012-05-01, 12:03 AM   #905
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Therre are other tires that are more robust that the folding Ardent 2.4, but without the weight penalty of the Duro 3".

I'm riding an Arrow Savage 26 x 2.6, it weighs a couple hundred gms less than the Duro 3", similar ride properties, but narrower and lower profile. I like it much better than the Ardent 2.4 or 2.6, it has a nice balance of float, support, suppleness.

If you like the Ardent, there is a wire bead 2.6 which is a bit more substantial than the folding Ardent, but it weighs the same as my Arrow 2.6 and it's not as good for muni in my opinion.

I think you can go plenty big on the Ardent, but you need to run a beefy tube and higher pressure.

Look at some of the other tires coming out, like Hans Dampf or some of the new Vee Rubber tires in a 2.6-2.7, you. Should be able to get a decent tire for 1000-1200 gms.

I don't think the 26er was developed as a faster and lighter version of the 24", esp since they are packaged the exact same in most cases and they have the same components. I ride a 26er because the 24" is too small for my long legs. When I want to cover some ground, I ride a 29er
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Old 2012-05-01, 12:26 AM   #906
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If you like the Ardent, there is a wire bead 2.6 which is a bit more substantial than the folding Ardent, but it weighs the same as my Arrow 2.6 and it's not as good for muni in my opinion.
I already have the ardent 2.6, and ran that initially before opting for the lighter 2.4 folding. Don't get me wrong, I've truly enjoyed the 2.4 and have been able to do a super wide variety of riding, from xc to super tech and drops. But I also know that the 2.4 folding is not the best choice for the latter, mostly because it must be run at a high psi than higher volume tires, such as the duro. I will likely go back to the 2.6 wire before I decide to get the duro.

And the ardent's unique tread design makes it one of the lowest rolling resistance tires there is, which is extremely helpful for a the heavy geared wheel! And in 1:1 there is no doubt--for me anyway--that my G26er is definitely faster than my kh 24. But that's no surprise;. It's a bigger wheel, so, duh!
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Old 2012-05-01, 12:38 AM   #907
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The 24x3 geared muni is slow on 1:1 for sure. I have been riding gmuni for almost 2 years now and find myself staying in high gear most of the time, switching to low only for extended tech DH or tech climbing. I have considered switching to a 26, but not sure if I would like it better. Somebody just needs to come to AZ with their 26 gmuni so I can check it out
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Old 2012-05-01, 12:43 AM   #908
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Originally Posted by Tucson Uni View Post
The 24x3 geared muni is slow on 1:1 for sure. I have been riding gmuni for almost 2 years now and find myself staying in high gear most of the time, switching to low only for extended tech DH or tech climbing. I have considered switching to a 26, but not sure if I would like it better. Somebody just needs to come to AZ with their 26 gmuni so I can check it out
I think my main motivation for the G26er was because that's the setup used and touted by KH himself, and the same GUni he rode in that awesome 5 day bike race, where he came in third I believe! And since the 26er tire choice is huge and 24" tires are far and few between, I opted for the KH special! But in high gear they are not too far apart; the 24 becomes a virtual 36er; the 26er a 39er.
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Last edited by MuniAddict; 2012-05-01 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 2012-05-01, 08:14 PM   #909
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I reinstalled my Ardent 2.6 (wire bead) for what I thought would be a good compromise between the (lightest) ardent 2.4 (folding) and the (heaviest) duro 3.0. Almost immediately I was reminded why I had switched to the 2.4! The 2.6 adds almost a full pound to the already heavy GUni wheel. I could definitely feel the extra weight pushing the high gear, on flat and climbs, and negotiating through tech terrain.

What I didn't really notice, was any appreciable improvement, if any, in riding over technical terrain, and certainly not enough to warrant the switch to the 2.6. And since most of the trails I ride on my G26er are XC to moderate technical, there is no need to go to a heavier tire, or one with a wire bead and stronger sidewalls.

The Ardent 2.4's only slightly narrower width compared to the 2.6 is almost imperceptible, but the very noticeably lighter weight gives the GUni a much "snappier" response and is definitely faster and easier to climb, and get up to speed. And it still handles very well on technical terrain. So I guess the old adage holds true in this case; if it's not broke, don't fix it!
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Old 2012-05-03, 12:59 AM   #910
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I'm wondering what is the narrowest 26er MUni tire that any G26er owners would recommend, mostly for xc riding. I've been looking at lighter options to cut weight, but still have excellent handling on mostly xc terrain with some moderate technical stuff now & then.

Do you think 2.1 would be too narrow to be effective for this purpose? I found two tires that look promising, both from WTB. One is the Nano Race, which is the 2.1 and weighs only 502g. The other is the all mountain, Mutano Race 2.4, which weighs 602g. I'm leaning towards the Mutano. It weighs 200g *less* than my current ardent 2.4 (same width) and this one has very low rolling resistance as well.

My LBS has the Nano race in stock, but I'm leery about going down to a 2.1. I guess I would also save weight on a lighter, narrower tube as well, but again, I'm a little unsure as to going that narrow on the tire, which leads me back to my original question: what is the narrowest 26er MUni tire that any G26er owners would recommend, mostly for xc riding.
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Old 2012-05-03, 01:17 AM   #911
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The Ardent 2.6 wire bead is not that much more robust than it's lighter weight cousing, the 2.4 kevlar folding bead, in fact they maybe the same tire with a different bead, though there is some thickener added to the 2.6 sidewalll that makes it feel different off the rim; on the rim I can tell much difference other than the added weight like Terry said.

The only reason I got an Ardent 2.6 was the cheap price ($12) and because it has the 3C sticky rubber, but for the weight of the Ardent 2.6 I can run the Arrow 2.6 which has as much traction as the 3C AND a more supportive casing and sidewall, so it rides better.

For the weight (750gm), it is hard to beat the folding bead Ardent 2.4, but if you simply must have a lighter weight tire and are willing to ride a narrower width, why not buy an Ardent 2.2? I think the 2.2 may come with more casing and tread/TPI choices as it's the preferred width for MTBers.

I just started riding the Hans Dampf in a 29 x 2.35, it as big as the Ardent 2.6/2.4, but has a more robust casing and the rubber is quite sticky, but it weighs ~50gm more than the Ardent 2.4 (800gm), so a little more weight than the Ardent, but closer to a Duro or Arrow in terms of ride quality, so a lot of tire for the weight. The downside is that it's an expensive tire, but maybe that would be a good compromise tire for the G26?

If you go with a race tire, you'll need to keep the guni on the ground...

Narrowest tire I have run, not so narrow, a 2.3 Stout, but then the better question is what is the lightest weight tire I have run, as this is more reflective of the construction/ rideability, so if that's the question then the Racing Ralph 29 x 2.4 is the lightest I have run at 450gm. The RR 2.4 is a great tire when treated respecfully, but it can be cut; it is a race tire ya know. In the 26" there are more choices, so if you can find one you like in 2.4 or 2.2 with the snakeskin sidewall, that would be the one I'd recommend.
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Old 2012-05-03, 01:27 AM   #912
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The Ardent 2.6 wire bead is not that much more robust than it's lighter weight cousing, the 2.4 kevlar folding bead, in fact they maybe the same tire with a different bead, though there is some thickener added to the 2.6 sidewalll that makes it feel different off the rim; on the rim I can tell much difference other than the added weight like Terry said.

The only reason I got an Ardent 2.6 was the cheap price ($12) and because it has the 3C sticky rubber, but for the weight of the Ardent 2.6 I can run the Arrow 2.6 which has as much traction as the 3C AND a more supportive casing and sidewall, so it rides better.

For the weight (750gm), it is hard to beat the folding bead Ardent 2.4, but if you simply must have a lighter weight tire and are willing to ride a narrower width, why not buy an Ardent 2.2? I think the 2.2 may come with more casing and tread/TPI choices as it's the preferred width for MTBers.

I just started riding the Hans Dampf in a 29 x 2.35, it as big as the Ardent 2.6/2.4, but has a more robust casing and the rubber is quite sticky, but it weighs ~50gm more than the Ardent 2.4 (800gm), so a little more weight than the Ardent, but closer to a Duro or Arrow in terms of ride quality, so a lot of tire for the weight. The downside is that it's an expensive tire, but maybe that would be a good compromise tire for the G26?

If you go with a race tire, you'll need to keep the guni on the ground...
The ardent 2.4 folding is actually 825g. And funny you mentioned the 2.25; I already ordered that yesterday! The one I got (60 TPI) weighs only 645g, so that should be a fairly noticeable difference in rotational weight, while not giving up too much width from the 2.4. And the reason you got the 2.6 for such a low price could be because it's been discontinued.
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Old 2012-05-03, 01:40 AM   #913
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Discontinued, yup, just like the Intense DH and the Gazz, so sad

I like my RR 2.4, still have it rolled up on the shelf, not sure that I'll ever run it again, but It's there just in case.

I just reweighed my Ardent 29 x 2.4, and granted it's probably 60-70% tread life, but it was 800gm, the 26 x 2.4 is weighing in at 835gm, The 29 x 2.35 Hans may have been more than I remember, but ~850-875 gm seems about right. I'm running the Maxxis Freeride tubes, 295gm, 1.2mm thickness, nice compromise of durability and weight.

The snakeskin RR 2.25 is a good tire, I have a few mtb friends who ride them, though the Ardent 2.2 is very popular as well. Have fun, keep the pressure up to avoid snakebites...
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Old 2012-05-03, 03:03 AM   #914
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I recently went tubeless on my G26 with 2.4 folding bead ardent- It was an easy way to kill off some rotational weight. The difference in accelerating and getting the wheel up to speed and keeping it there was instantly noticeable. In a few 100 kms of technical XC riding it has only burped once- and that was in a rocky, ledgy, series of drops on a DH trail. It sealed right back up again- so a few pumps with the mini pump and I was back at it in no time. I used the split tube method- getting away with a light weight 20" bmx inner tube as my rim strip. The advantage of this method is that the more times the tyre burps, the less likely it is to occur later on (as the rim strip gets glued to the tyre casing with the latex filler)

The Ardent has nice ride characteristics as tubeless tyre. I ride with a firm tyre pressure and it handles well. Its direct, nimble and the weight savings are really noticeable, especially in really steep short climbs where it is hard to keep up momentum. Its probably not for everyone- I'm small (62kgs) and like my tyre on the firm side. If you are bigger and prefer a cushier ride, then the side walls might not give you enough support.

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Old 2012-05-03, 06:13 PM   #915
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Went for a 12 mile G-MUni ride today, mosty XC terrain with some moderate tech sections and many short but steep climbs on loose gravely terrain. I had serious reservations about a new tire I would be using for the first time. It's the WTB "Nano Race" 26x2.1.

The tread didn't look like it would have enough grip for the steep climbs, especially on the loose ground, and I thought the 2.1 width would be too narrow to give a stable ride at anything but max pressure. All those assumption, happily, were 180 degrees wrong!

I was very impressed with this tire in all those areas, and with its ultralight weight of 502g, and super low rolling resistance, I felt like a great "weight" was lifted both figuratively and literally speaking!

My G26er had a much snappier response and climbing was a joy! It never lost traction at all and in high I was flying! I would recommend this tire for XC for sure, but probably not for anything more extreme. Next tire I'll be trying is the Maxxis Ardent EXO 26x2.25 folding. This is the tire I am most looking forward too as it will be a better tire for the type of riding I do, and it's also about 200g lighter than my Ardent 2.4 folding, which is also a great tire.
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