We Will Remember Them.

[Gilby]

Let us remember, that the armistice was signed at 5 am on November 11th, but that it was not until 6 hours later that it was to take effect. Let us have silence to ponder the number of soldiers that died in those 6 hours, and for what they died for... to make it be the perfect alliteration of the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month.

At least they didn't wait eleven more minutes.

[poofengle]

"In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields."

My grandfather was a WWI veteran, and was probably the bravest man I've ever known, but unfortunately, I didn't know him very long. He died 17 years ago today (a fitting day for a WWI vet), at the ripe old age of 97. Every veteran's day I remember him and all the other veterans who fought so hard to protect our country by having a moment of silence and contemplating all the good things in life... It's always a reflective day for me...

[TheJoker]

We will rememeber them.

[wobbling bear]

I think of the families ....
for every small village in France there is a monument with so many names: whole families wiped out....
When I was a teen in Morocco I saw my teacher weep by citing the names of former pupils that died in WWII ("north africans" volunteers paid a heavy tribute) I could not realise why an adult was weeping ...
now I know.

but also I witness the franco-german reconciliation and have hope for others (Still waiting for another wall to crumble: the one between Israel and Palestine).

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by Gilby

Let us have silence to ponder the number of soldiers that died in those 6 hours, and for what they died for...

If it makes you feel any better, remember that communications on the battlefield were not what they are today. It may have taken a few days to get the word out to all combatants. I don't know if they had portable radios in the trenches, for instance.

Otherwise I agree with you. Why not just say it ends now? Is this where the expression "at the eleventh hour" comes from?

Originally Posted by wobbling bear

(Still waiting for another wall to crumble: the one between Israel and Palestine).

Despite its invisible-ness, that wall is many times higher, and much thicker, than the Berlin one. I hope to see it in my lifetime, but will not be holding my breath...

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

Conservatively, one out of every three homeless men who is sleeping in a doorway, alley or box in our cities and rural communities has put on a uniform and served the USA.

What are the stats in your grateful nation?

YOur vets aren't homeless like the USA?

Maybe your nations are MORE grateful.

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

Maybe your nations are MORE grateful.

Or more socialist?

Or both?

[cathwood]

I'm with Gilby. Phew cos I was working myself up to saying it first and being universally unpopular.

We remember the dead. That's fine, they did what their country asked them to do and died for it. But it does glorify war. My son has been coming home the last couple of weeks full of the glory of war.

It's also hypocritical - 'the war to end all wars' 'least we forget' (how horrible war is and have another one). Yet we have been at war since then. This week our Prime Minister has agreed to send more troops to die in Afganistan.

Yep, lets remember how gloriously they died, and how they keep on dying.

(Why don't we try something else for a change)

[GILD]

I wanted to make this point earlier, now might be a good time.

Functions of this nature invariably include a minute's silence.
Which is a perfect time, to my mind, for each of us to remember how, and what, we choose.

I still vividly remember driving, in an armoured vehicle, into my first contact and hearing the PING sounds as bullets ricocheted off the side-door where I sat and suddenly realising that had that been the ping of an RPG hitting the vehicle, there wouldn't've been any dramatic music or slo-mo action shots or a collage of my life set to any recent rock-ballads.

I would simply have been dead.

The 'glory of war' doesn't last frightfully long.

Allow me to amend:

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
I will remember them.

[BillyTheMountain]

But when you pass the homeless war veterans in the street, will you give them a dollar? They'd prefer that to being remembered, I think.

John, Are you saying that socialism is much more grateful than capitalism?

[Gilby]

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

John, Are you saying that socialism is much more grateful than corporatism?

FTFY. The US is not a capitalist society, unless you think a government taking from the productive and giving to corporate interests is capitalism.

[Gadge]

Originally Posted by cathwood

I'm with Gilby. Phew cos I was working myself up to saying it first and being universally unpopular.

We remember the dead. That's fine, they did what their country asked them to do and died for it. But it does glorify war. My son has been coming home the last couple of weeks full of the glory of war.

It's also hypocritical - 'the war to end all wars' 'least we forget' (how horrible war is and have another one). Yet we have been at war since then. This week our Prime Minister has agreed to send more troops to die in Afganistan.

Yep, lets remember how gloriously they died, and how they keep on dying.

(Why don't we try something else for a change)

Cath,

I treat Remembrance Day as a chance to remember all those that suffer in war AND as a very conscious reminder that we really ought to find a better way. Sadly it seems we haven't yet. I don't see any glory in dying or suffering in war.

But maybe that's just me.
Gary

[Mikefule]

Originally Posted by cathwood

I'm with Gilby. Phew cos I was working myself up to saying it first and being universally unpopular.

War will remain the popular option because it's more fun than farming, and easier than compromising.

Most people desire certainty more than anything else, and in war you are certain that you are in the right. Spike Milligan was a great hero of mine - he lost his sanity in the war when a mortar shell blew him up. From one of his Goon Show Scripts (I paraphrase):

"We've got the enemy fooled, sir. They think we're the enemy."
"Ah! the perfect disguise."


I could post anti war song lyrics and poetry until the cows come home, but it won't stop the next war, or the one after that.

It's all these people "giving their lives", you see. So much cleaner than "being killed."

Angelic Upstarts:
Last night another soldier, last night another child
No one seems to worry, no one sees his mother cry

Can you see that smart, clean soldier,
Standing straight and oh so proud
He wants to fight for Queen and country
He wants to make his family proud

A job with the future, his way to get out of it
It's his sense of romance, it never ends that way
Last night another soldier, last night another child
No one seems to worry, no one sees his mother cry

They're just facts and figures on your TV screen
Another child and another soldier, is peace just a dream

In the country strange and foreign all the people resent him
He can't cope with his problems, all the fears and hatred

Now he wish he never went he wish he never thought of it
It's not the same as fighting armies looking for the terrorists

They're just facts and figures...

Can you hear the mocking laughter from the ones that gain by it
They're not in line for the bullets, they're the ones who started it

They're just facts and figures...

Last night another soldier, last night another child
Just a number in the papers, another one of the innocent

They're just facts and figures..