Muni: Uphill?

[tholub]

Originally Posted by sofauxboho

I noticed that in all the muni videos, you only really see people descending. Is that because going up steep stuff is impossible, or just boring?

In MUni, most people walk most of the uphill. But here in the Bay Area, we ride. Here's a video of Beau Hoover tackling an uphill that's right on the edge of what's possible:

http://nhoover.smugmug.com/Unicyclin...884_QmSCc-A-LB

I agree with the advice that it may be easier to climb on 150mm than 170mm cranks; your circles will be smoother and you'll be less likely to get stuck in a dead spot, and you still have plenty of leverage at 150mm. You have to be pretty good to be able to climb well with cranks shorter than that, but strong climbers can do amazing things even with 125mm cranks.

Like most things, practice is the most important thing. One thing to note is the difference between climbing something smoothly, and climbing it in "funky chicken" mode. If a hill isn't very steep, you can just crank up it, but beyond a certain steepness, you need to be able to attack it one half-revolution at a time. Pedal, pause slightly, and pedal again. Practice climbing something as slowly as you can; the better you are at going slowly, the steeper you'll be able to climb.

In any case, uphill MUni is incredibly strenuous; really among the most strenuous activities I've ever done. If I need to cross-train for anything else, I do uphill MUni. So don't be discouraged if you find it difficult; it is difficult!

Come join us in the East Bay on Sunday, we're going to be scouting locations for the uphill race for the 2010 nationals; you'll be able to at least watch some good climbers and how they approach a tough climb.

[MuniAddict]

Originally Posted by tholub

In MUni, most people walk most of the uphill. But here in the Bay Area, we ride.

Well, here in the SOUTH bay area (LA county & OC) we do too. And Jamey Mossengren is one of the best climbers ever!

Personally, I live for uphill MUni! I'll take and out & back (Ride up, ride back down) over a shuttle any day of the week. Since Fargo, nothing seems too steep anymore!

[MoOoG]

Originally Posted by sofauxboho

Woops, just to clarify, the pictures are representative of the sort of trail in the area where I'm riding, not the actual ascents in question.

What happens is that eventually I can't quite get the pedal over the 12 o'clock position and I stop, balance a bit, and fall off.

Oh ok, im sorry.
I think if that happens you don't push enough or you ran out of power. It happens to everybody.

[joemarshall]

Originally Posted by tholub

In MUni, most people walk most of the uphill.

Only most lazy Americans.

Most of our decent rides, you'd have to walk for aaaages if you walked all the uphill. It would be right annoying.

To the original guy - you can ride at night - get yourself a decent LED torch, strap it onto your helmet, and you're all set for night muni. Night muni is the best kind of muni anyway. As for the uphill, just ride a lot and you'll get the hang of it - hold onto the seat, stand up if it gets really hard, and just keep trying, don't wuss out and walk when you fall, remount and try some more.

I was out on those trails running the other day, thinking it looked like some fun was there to be had on a muni, although I imagine much of it is illegal for cycling?

Joe

[MoOoG]

Originally Posted by joemarshall

Night muni is the best kind of muni anyway.

I don't agree with that (it's just my opinion). I like night rides but they are not better than day rides. But it's very fun riding at night. Even if you know that track very well, at night it's just different.

Most of our decent rides, you'd have to walk for aaaages if you walked all the uphill. It would be right annoying.

Where are you from?
Yea, I don't like walking uphill. It takes ages to get up and if you ride uphill, you also get extra stamina for next downhill.

[MuniOrBust]

Originally Posted by tholub

Here's a video of Beau Hoover tackling an uphill that's right on the edge of what's possible:

http://nhoover.smugmug.com/Unicyclin...884_QmSCc-A-LB

I wonder if the bikers were all saying... "Well, yeah... he can do it because he's on a unicycle. Try it on a bike!"
He makes it look easy. I wish I could be there to see what it's really like. Knowing what's possible helps with motivation.
I can't help but wonder sometimes if I'm trying to do the impossible.

I wish I had a park with never ending hills of every degree of incline.

[joemarshall]

Knowing what's possible helps with motivation.
I can't help but wonder sometimes if I'm trying to do the impossible.

Riding with other people is a massive help for this - I know before I rode with other people ever, I thought some things were impossible which I'd now ride easily. I'm sure the same is true of people I've ridden with since, riding with other people is one of the best ways to get better.

Joe

[redwelly]

Originally Posted by tholub

Here's a video of Beau Hoover tackling an uphill that's right on the edge of what's possible:

http://nhoover.smugmug.com/Unicyclin...884_QmSCc-A-LB

That's a pretty crazy looking uphill. It didn't look too bad until Beau comes past the camera and you can see the angle, and the rocky surface. Awesome climbing.

There is a lot of advantage in having excellent still-stand balance skills, as you can have a bit of a rest between rotations, even on angled surfaces.

And of course, given the Unicon 14 uphill race results - where Beau was not top of the list - there are people like Tony Melton and Seisuke Kobayashi who make it look even easier. There seemed to be a certain step-change in those results between people who could make it all the way 'clean', or almost clean; and those who took twice as long with many dismounts. I was definitely in the second batch, and was lucky to make it to the finish at all!

Sam

[joemarshall]

Originally Posted by redwelly

Tony Melton and Seisuke Kobayashi who make it look even easier.

Yeah, Tony is pretty good at muni isn't he. I think trials and general balance skills make a big difference to muni riding beyond just being good at riding and very strong and fit.

Joe

[tholub]

Originally Posted by redwelly

And of course, given the Unicon 14 uphill race results - where Beau was not top of the list - there are people like Tony Melton and Seisuke Kobayashi who make it look even easier.

Don't bet against Beau in Wellington; he's a stronger climber now than then. (He is 17 years old, after all.) At California MUni Weekend he was outclimbing Kris Holm at 8000'+.

[sofauxboho]

Originally Posted by joemarshall

I was out on those trails running the other day, thinking it looked like some fun was there to be had on a muni, although I imagine much of it is illegal for cycling?

Here's a bicycle map of the Presidio:
http://www.presidio.gov/NR/rdonlyres...e_Map_2009.pdf

The trails that bikes aren't allowed on are marked in brown.

Basically, it seems to come down to this: While riding my cross bike on these trails I've never been stopped or hassled. As long as I'm polite and give right of way, most folks don't seem to mind sharing the trails with me, though some definitely do and I'll occasionally get the stink eye from 'em. Even that's enough to make me hesitate to ride my bicycle out there. I'm a bit flexible when it comes to following the rules, but I don't want to trouble other folks.

On the other hand, everyone seems to get a big kick out of seeing me (try to) unicycle the trails. I feel entirely welcome.

I have decided not to listen to music while riding the trails so that I can greet folks I meet and answer questions. Seems better this way.

(Legally, it looks like most unicycles aren't considered bicycles in California. However, I'm not really concerned with the legality of things. More important to me is whether my actions are adding or detracting from the lives of the people I share the trails with.)

[mbalmer]

Originally Posted by Mikefule

Try 150 mm cranks. Seriously. The longer cranks can be ungainly and make it harder work.

Uphill is the best bit.

I've been riding off road with 167 cranks. I'm going to try 150mm because while the longer crank gives me more leverage it also forces me to push through more dead spot. At least that's how it feels on steeper stuff.

[Mikefule]

Originally Posted by mbalmer

I've been riding off road with 167 cranks. I'm going to try 150mm because while the longer crank gives me more leverage it also forces me to push through more dead spot. At least that's how it feels on steeper stuff.

Longer cranks are great for the type of steep downhill where you daren't let go and spin out.

Other than that, I find they reduce my riding enjoyment. I took 165s off my KH24 and put 150s and can still ride everything I could ride before, plus some extra stuff.

Fewer pedal-strike UPDs too.

[sofauxboho]

Originally Posted by tholub

In MUni, most people walk most of the uphill. But here in the Bay Area, we ride. Here's a video of Beau Hoover tackling an uphill that's right on the edge of what's possible:

http://nhoover.smugmug.com/Unicyclin...884_QmSCc-A-LB

Wow. That's just stunning.

So much for the question of whether my little hill is possible!

Thanks Tom, that's certainly the best uphill climbing video I've seen, much better view of his technique than in the other clips I've found.

Now I really can't wait for my Kris Holm to get here so I can try playing around with 150mm cranks. Until then I'll keep at it with the Torker and it's 170s. I figure anything I can learn to do on that will be even easier on the KH.

Oh, and I've dropped you an email about Sunday. Sounds like fun!

[Mikefule]

Uphill is the rewarding bit, downhill is the reward. I remember the hills I've climbed in one.