My excellent talk with John D. (UDC)

[MuniAddict]

I had the opportunity to speak on the phone with John Drummond, owner of UDC, (USA) today. He was friendly and very forthcoming with regard to the “X” airfoil issue, and told me that the problem has been discovered to be mostly likely caused by a defective batch of bad tubes! They have since replaced these with coker tubes, which seems to have solved any suspected Airfoil/TA tire conflict.

Let me also make clear that if I “implied” that UDC had been “less than truthful” in a previous thread, I will retract that here and now. It can get very frustrating when you get conflicting information from one source to the next, so it gets pretty hard to know who to believe, but I do not now, nor did I then believe UDC to be untruthful in any way. At worst I think they may simply have not known about the problem to its full extent, or in all its details. They certainly do NOW, so that's a good thing, as both John and I agree!


In the past, UDC has always been quick to respond to questions or complaints, and replaced my broken KH Muni rim (remember that bad batch with the “seam” in the rim?) and a broken magura part, a split lift handle…all were replaced free of charge and shipping, quickly and without question. So my experiences with UDC have always been excellent.

As I told John, I like to do my research before I buy an expensive unicycle or whatever, so when I initially came upon various threads saying that the new “x” rims were faulty, it gave me pause. That’s why I called them to inquire, and so when they said they hadn’t heard of the problem, I just became uncertain as to how to make an informed decision, with so many conflicting reports about this rim, and no explanation (until today) of why the problem might or might not exist.


Just so you all know, I am now quite confident in making my purchase from UDC USA, and plan to buy a 36-er with the current airfoil. John also wants to make clear (as he will in his own post) that they will stand behind this rim, and if I experience any problem with it, to contact him directly so that he can take care of the problem.



Our conversation was ended on a friendly, positive note, and I look forward to getting my new 36-er, and I now feel comfortable saying to anyone contemplating whether or not to buy one to go ahead and order one with confidence.

In the end, all I wanted was assurance, (from UDC) and some kind of explanation as to why some people were having problems with this rim, as people were thinking it was either the fault of the rim, or the tire. When John told me about a bad batch of TUBES being the likely culprit, and that they have recently gone back to using ONLY the coker tube, the problem seems to have been solved.



I will post a thread reporting the performance of my new 36-er w/”x” rim after about 2 weeks worth of initial riding. I’m hoping for the best!

[idiorythmic]

Originally Posted by MuniAddict

...the problem has been discovered to be mostly likely caused by a defective batch of bad tubes! They have since replaced these with coker tubes, which seems to have solved any suspected Airfoil/TA tire conflict.

Wait, am I mistaken? I thought the problem was that the Airfoil didn't work well with the Coker tire. Did you mean to say Coker, or is that part of the problem still unresolved here?

I note your use of the phrase "most likely". Seems like evidence points to a problem with the tubes but that no one can conclusively prove it or explain the mechanical processes that occur there. I'll be waiting quietly while more experience/data is collected by all the folks running the Airfoil rims.

Thanks, Terry, for going all out to get some clarification on this issue!

[MuniAddict]

Originally Posted by idiorythmic

Wait, am I mistaken? I thought the problem was that the Airfoil didn't work well with the Coker tire. Did you mean to say Coker, or is that part of the problem still unresolved here?

I note your use of the phrase "most likely". Seems like evidence points to a problem with the tubes but that no one can conclusively prove it or explain the mechanical processes that occur there. I'll be waiting quietly while more experience/data is collected by all the folks running the Airfoil rims.

Thanks, Terry, for going all out to get some clarification on this issue!

The coker tire is not, and was never an issue for me because I read the UDC disclaimer, as most everyone has, stating that the Coker *TIRE* was not compatible with the "X" rim. But the coker *tube* is now being used with the TA & X rim with no known issues, whereas the previously supplied tubes that were recently shipped with this Tire/rim combo have been found to be defective. But you're right; Time will tell. I just feel more confident in buying this rim with the coker tube now that I have first hand assurance directly from John Drummond.

[mark williamson]

I'm curious: what was actually the problem with the tubes that would cause these problems to occur? I was under the impression people had had problems with blowouts... what kind of tube fault can cause that?

[MuniAddict]

Originally Posted by mark williamson

I'm curious: what was actually the problem with the tubes that would cause these problems to occur? I was under the impression people had had problems with blowouts... what kind of tube fault can cause that?

John said it was a stem defect that was causing blowouts. Wait to read John's own post on this subject.

[johnfoss]

If the tubes in question were 29" ones, I can see where they might put more pressure on the bead area of the tire, and less on the outer part. This would create more pressure between the bead and rim, without the fatter part of the tire to the outside to help hold things together. Just a guess.

John Drummond also mentioned to me that the X batch of Airfoil rims was exactly the size they were supposed to be, after being completely *redone* at the factory. The original X batch were too big, actually larger than the original Airfoils! The second batch were made a little smaller because of complaints from people changing tires. They are currently on the third batch of Airfoil rims, and everything seems to be okay though you must watch your tire pressure. You don't need to run lots of pressure in a 36" anyway.

Now with the new Cokers coming out, hopefully the tire and rim compatibility thing will settle down to a fixed and consistent size, so all us weirdos can mix & match them!

[MuniAddict]

Originally Posted by johnfoss

If the tubes in question were 29" ones, I can see where they might put more pressure on the bead area of the tire, and less on the outer part. This would create more pressure between the bead and rim, without the fatter part of the tire to the outside to help hold things together. Just a guess.

John Drummond also mentioned to me that the X batch of Airfoil rims was exactly the size they were supposed to be, after being completely *redone* at the factory. The original X batch were too big, actually larger than the original Airfoils! The second batch were made a little smaller because of complaints from people changing tires. They are currently on the third batch of Airfoil rims, and everything seems to be okay though you must watch your tire pressure. You don't need to run lots of pressure in a 36" anyway.

Now with the new Cokers coming out, hopefully the tire and rim compatibility thing will settle down to a fixed and consistent size, so all us weirdos can mix & match them!

Nope, 36" tubes.

[Danny Allen]

I just thought I would post my experience with the X-Airfoil here as it seems to support this conclusion.

When I first ordered my Nimbus 36" in February, it arrived and I took it out of the box and assembled it. I did not have time to cut down the seat post and give it a test run before I had to go to work. I never checked or changed the air pressure in the tire, it was at whatever pressure it had been shipped with from UDC. When I got back from work (only 2 hours later) to my surprise the tire had blown off the rim and there was a hole about 2 inches long in the tube in this location. I contacted UDC about the problem, and was promptly sent a new tube. I was told that there had been a problem with a defective batch of tubes.

After installing and inflating the new tube, being especially careful to seat the bead correctly, I was still a little suspicious of the tire/rim situation. However, I have had no problems with it since then, and my suspicion has slowly died with time. I generally ride with 40-45psi and have been on several 20-30 mile rides on it. I have not done any muni on it, although I have gone down curbs and such a couple times with no problems.

Now that school is out for me I should be able to take my 36er out for a lot more rides. I will post here if I experience any X-Airfoil related problems.

--Danny

[MuniAddict]

Originally Posted by Danny Allen

I just thought I would post my experience with the X-Airfoil here as it seems to support this conclusion.

When I first ordered my Nimbus 36" in February, it arrived and I took it out of the box and assembled it. I did not have time to cut down the seat post and give it a test run before I had to go to work. I never checked or changed the air pressure in the tire, it was at whatever pressure it had been shipped with from UDC. When I got back from work (only 2 hours later) to my surprise the tire had blown off the rim and there was a hole about 2 inches long in the tube in this location. I contacted UDC about the problem, and was promptly sent a new tube. I was told that there had been a problem with a defective batch of tubes.

After installing and inflating the new tube, being especially careful to seat the bead correctly, I was still a little suspicious of the tire/rim situation. However, I have had no problems with it since then, and my suspicion has slowly died with time. I generally ride with 40-45psi and have been on several 20-30 mile rides on it. I have not done any muni on it, although I have gone down curbs and such a couple times with no problems.

Now that school is out for me I should be able to take my 36er out for a lot more rides. I will post here if I experience any X-Airfoil related problems.

--Danny

Wow! That does indeed seem to support UDC's statement regarding bad tubes! Thanks for your post and keep us "posted"!

[john_childs]

It is strange, and something I wouldn't suspect, that a problem with a 36" tube could cause the tire to blow off the rim. I'm not sure what the suspected tube defect could be. My best guess is that the valve stem might be a possibility. Maybe the rubber was extra thick there or extra large and pushed the edges of the tire the wrong way. The valve stem area can be a problematic area making it difficult to get a tire correctly seated on some rims with some tubes.

Or maybe some of the tubes had inconsistent rubber thickness and thin areas that herniated and blew off the tire.

I don't know???

If it is indeed the fault of some faulty tubes at least we know now. Fixing the problem is just a matter of replacing the bad tube with a good tube.

[Jerrick]

Originally Posted by john_childs

Or maybe some of the tubes had inconsistent rubber thickness and thin areas that herniated and blew off the tire.

From reading peoples blow-outs, it seems like this is the case.

Ive had the valve problem you mentioned before, but a little different. Long story short, the stem blew of the tube, and about 15 feet into the air, while green slime sprayed from the tire.

[Brian O.]

Originally Posted by MuniAddict

I will post a thread reporting the performance of my new 36-er w/”x” rim after about 2 weeks worth of initial riding. I’m hoping for the best!

You aren't going to wait for Coker's announcement?

[MuniAddict]

Originally Posted by Brian O.

You aren't going to wait for Coker's announcement?

Yes, as we all are. But I also want to have a coker to ride and enjoy asap! Coker only states that the new 36-er will be coming out "soon". They couldn't--or wouldn't--specify when, or even what month.

[kington99]

When mine blew off I noticed later there was damage around the valve, the circular rubber base of the valve had pulled away from the main tube rubber. At the time I presumed that the forces of the tube trying to excape out the gap between the tyre and the rim and led the valve to be ripped off, as obviously it was fixed in place by the stem passing through the rim. Now I'm beginning to wonder about cause and effect. UDC UK doesn't say which tubes theyre selling, just that they're appropriate for coker Qu-Ax and UDC 36ers.

[chissakid]

Terry, thanks for your kind words. Thanks also for taking the time to call.

Amy and I sincerely feel that it’s a privilege to serve this community of fellow unicyclists. After reading the comments on this forum regarding one of our products, we felt the need to set the record straight. We’ve made an effort today to reach other folks who posted comments of concern here, so that we can resolve any issues. Our goal is to exceed our customers’ expectations with quality products and superior service. Naturally, some of our past errors have made us wince, but we always try to ensure that the buyer is happy with the resolution.

We developed the Airfoil rim about 5 years ago because many of us riders wanted a stronger wheel for our Coker unicycles. Sidewalks surround our community in suburban Atlanta. On my daily ride I would routinely hit curbs head-on, which sometimes caused the standard steel rim to go out of true. That caused the brake pad to rub on one side. I would true the tire on the spot, but it was an ongoing problem.

Though our first Airfoil rim solved that problem and became a huge hit, we received many complaints that it was too big. We installed one on Lars Clausen’s Coker unicycle when he rode through Georgia during his ride-across-America trip (some 6,000 miles). At some point the tube blew out and he had a difficult time getting the tire back on. That’s not the kind of problem we want during a distance ride.

The second batch was just a bit smaller. So was the third batch. We received a sample rim before the third batch was produced. We tested it on a Wheel TA tire for several days before we approved it. At that time, we had sold out of Coker tires and the Coker warehouse ran out. It was out of stock for months. The first batch of Coker tires to arrive after that was a bit too large for the Airfoil rim. Once we discovered this, we posted the information on the product listing in our online catalog. There was no reason to hide this information.

Many of you no doubt remember the long period when Coker ran out of unicycles, tires and tubes. We had to find an alternate source for 36-inch tires, and the Wheel TA is proving to be a very good tire. But the specialty 36 x 2.125 tubes we found were very disappointing. They became the standard on all 36-inch models, and soon after we began shipping them, we began receiving notices—by phone and email—that there was a problem. We estimate that about 20 of those tubes either lost the valve stem or erupted through weak sidewall rubber. We were fortunate that Coker did finally receive a shipment of tubes, and we began sending them to our customers who had received the defective tube. Since then, the number of incidents fell off dramatically.

It appears that some have associated the tube failure with the Airfoil rim. We’ve sold about 60 rims from this latest batch, and we’ve received mostly positive feedback. Terry notified us of this thread on Monday; Amy and I were up late that night reading all the comments. If there is a problem beyond the defective tubes, we’re not aware of it. We’ve not had to replace any Airfoil rims from this batch. If we ship one and it fails, we will replace it. If any of you are having a problem, we urge you to contact us. Though there’s a specified warranty on most of our products, most of our customers know that we are very flexible when it comes to resolving issues.

I ride about 5 miles per day on a Nimbus 36-inch Deluxe model, with the latest Airfoil rim, that Amy gave me for Christmas. The Wheel TA tire is rated to 32 psi, but I’ve been riding mine at 25 psi. I confirmed that with a tire gauge. I inflated it to 40 on Tuesday morning, and it’s holding.

When we install the Wheel TA tire on an Airfoil rim, we make sure the bead is properly seated. Sometimes, after we inflate the tube, we see that the bead is higher on one side that the other. We deflate the tube, reseat the bead, and inflate again. Anyone who has worked in a bike shop knows this process. A blowout isn’t exactly a pleasant experience.

We are continuously developing new products, and we agree with those on this forum who suggest maintaining standards. We have made that commitment; our product line will adhere to standards set by the International Organization of Standards (ISO).

We are grateful for your continued support. Please continue to send your constructive comments to us at helpdesk@unicycle.com. We read, and respond to, every one. If you’re not satisfied with our response, please call Amy or me at 1-800-Unicycle (1-800-864-2925).