1,000 Reps: Objective Rating of the Difficulty of Various Skills

[IntoIt]

TLDR: This is an experiment that consists only of recording the amount of times you attempt to do each skill. I put a cap at 1,000 so this doesn't ruin our entire lives.

I was practicing at the park, failing at the stand-up one-foot wheel walk, when I imagined myself getting on this forum and asking someone who knew this skill, "How many times did you try this before you saw 'x amount' of success?"

And then I thought, "They would think that was a very weird question, and what's more, I would only get approximate answers the accuracy of which I would have no way of being able to judge."

So, I'm doing it myself. And I just told my friend about this experiment, and he thought it was a good idea, and I told him it would be much better if I had several subjects, so he agreed to take part in this as well. If any of you would like to also, post in here and let me know - I only ask that you make an effort to be accurate.

Each attempt to perform each skill will count as 1.

This means that you will reach 1,000 hops pretty quickly - or at least comparably quickly.

But each wheel walk is only 1 rep, no matter how many revolutions of the tire you make.

So there will be a difference, I suspect, in the amount of times necessary to learn different skills, not only because of the difficulty of the skills, but because of their duration. I have not found a way to counterbalance this, and the only reason I would need to would be to determine, based on number alone, how difficult these skills are to learn. As far as I can tell, accounting for the difference in duration is not possible to do accurately - I believe this for a variety of reasons which I will not bore you with, but you can let me know if you disagree.

A comparison will be possible after only 50 or 100 reps, I suppose, but I'm carrying the experiment to 1,000.

Another thing which we must account for intuitively, since an accurate system is not quite possible to measure this, is how good we are at the skills to begin with. I would rather start counting my wheel walks at '1' tomorrow than to add a few hundred based on a guess. The data for these skills will be tainted, but there's really nothing I can do about that....

[erikmoda]

Intoit let me get this right, so I put here is how many times I tried to do a trick?
Ok today I tried around 50 times to take the hop is like that? haha or I misunderstood?

Look This game , sounds good for us , learning with everybody is better than learning by yourself
http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86817

[erikmoda]

50 times to take the TIRE HOP * , sorry i forgot the word :/

[DSchmitt]

ok, ill post my progress on turnarounds.

bout 5 months ago i was working on these very consistently. highest i did was 4 turnarounds in a row. this took at least 1500 reps. (prob more, thats an underestimation) i eventually just stopped even trying these until about 3 weeks ago.

so for these 3 weeks, i'd say a good estimate is 750reps. i just got 3 turnaround in a row today, but they are still very inconsistent. this time i won't be giving up, however. i think the 1000 cap is too low. i'm still going to count each sesh now anyway. i want to be up to 20 turnaround in a row by july 2011(naucc). my cap will be 30,000. i think it will take 30,000+ reps to get 20 in a row. i'll post progress vids. turnarounds are the hardest thing i've ever tried.

heres my old turnaround vid( i am no longer this good, but soon i will be)
YouTube - they're almost consistent!

so i have 29,250 reps to go before i believe i can do 20 turnarounds in a row.

[padst3r]

it doesnt really work cause you could do 1000 of something in a day and not make any progress because you havent improved enough to do it.If you did 1000 over 1 week you would be much closer

[DSchmitt]

yesterday i did about 40 reps....all miserable, horrible...pathetic. ended up very pissed.


today was a much better sesh..but not good enough. these are the most frustrating things i've ever dealt with. but i will NOT give up.


heres the highlights of todays sesh
YouTube - turnaround

[padst3r]

its way hard on wood cause the tyre grips especially if its pointy like yours.I do mine by grabbing the handle and doing two 90 hops but whatever works

[DSchmitt]

its not really noticeable, but i'm actually doing 2 lil mini hops each time i turn..to reduce some of the friction. ive also been practicing on a low metal pole..it definitely easier to turn, but definitely harder to stay on after the turn. i probably land 1 in 15 on the metal pole.

[padst3r]

yeh its tricky but you should get it pretty fast cause of your insane balance skills :D

[erikmoda]

is not better try a 180 turnaround than 2 hops of 90? you just have to do very controlled to not lost the balance ! or is more difficult?

[DSchmitt]

its way harder. i slip off like 10x more.

[erikmoda]

hm, understand , i do just in the floor , is cool , keep praticing man , one day you will get this mastered! , using your thread do you have any tips to how to start to train stand still? skinny? Is one of my dreams , ride mi unicycle ina handrail and can stand still!

[DSchmitt]

check out this post,

http://unicyclist.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1397337&postcount=3

practice both riding skinnies and standstills. they go hand in hand. the more standstills you do , the better your skinny riding gets. the more skinny riding you do, the better you standstills get.

[erikmoda]

nice man thanks a lot , i wil start doing it on the car parking haha

[IntoIt]

Hmm. I doubt I will work on skinnies for over a year. I'm still a fairly new cyclist, and there is really just too much to learn...And it appears that you could really spend 100% of your time on skinnies and get better and better at that one skill...and by the time you can fairly claim that you're 'pretty decent' at turnarounds and skinnies, perhaps you could have learned a good ten other flat/free skills instead.

It's very impressive, though.

I mentioned in another thread binding the cranks to help learn seat wraps, (I contend that the larger number of simple steps a process can be broken into within reason is the quickest way to learn a skill solidly) and I'm wondering if anyone else has tried that or something similiar. Surely someone has...

And Erik, I clicked on your name and saw you were having some trouble with tire hops? I have just started working on those this week, and my opinion is that they are very easy - compared to other things - especially when you consider how cool it looks.

I would recommend hopping from the floor to the tire for a while just for the purpose of being able to comfortably hop in that position. Once you're really comfortable in the tire hop position, I think that hopping up from the pedals will be a much simpler matter because if you try it now, you are attempting two skills at once - the transition and the tirehop itself. It would be something like working on riding hops when you can't really hop yet, do you know what I mean? It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Forgive me for even offering advice when you and I are trying to learn the exact same skills, but I also find it helpful to focus on a single skill and go nuts on it, rather than trying this a few times, then that...

[erikmoda]

thanks intoit , for now i mastered the tiire hop trick haha , i did like you said , jump on the tire for a pedal postion and fal on the pedals again :)

[DSchmitt]

i've done about 500 reps since i last posted... up to 1,250

here's my progress

YouTube - notableturnaround

only 28,000 left to go! lol:p

[IntoIt]

those rail skills really are impressive.

[IntoIt]

thanks intoit , for now i mastered the tiire hop trick haha , i did like you said , jump on the tire for a pedal postion and fal on the pedals again :)

Glad to hear it!!

[IntoIt]

Starting today, I'm going to do 50 reps a day on each trick that I am working on.

-Crankflip (have landed several)

-180 US (have landed several)

-Seatwrap (just did 50 reps and landed my first "no-hop" seat wrap on rep #50!)

-Rolling wrap (not even close)

-Legwrap (about 50% success)

-Donkey kick (never worked on or landed)

-Backroll MOUNT (never landed it, never tried from pedals)

-Koosh koosh (got to admit, it's getting better [and better - all the time])

-90 and back to pedals (still find this difficult)

That'll be 900 reps for each of these by the time school starts on the 16th. I'll update then - or before then.

[IntoIt]

And push mush - that is a must for stringing combos.
And varial ( one half rolling wrap and then walk the body 360o)

Many of these I will fail at miserably, but when I get good at some, eg push mush and seatwrap, I'll have a head start on the others.
I'm just talking about myself...aber ich finde der ueben des anderen interessant, also ich habe meinen geschrieben.
(correct me?)

[IntoIt]

OK. One last update for today:
I extended the list to 20 tricks, so that with 50 reps each, I can do 1000 reps a day, and on the 20th day, I will have done 1000 reps for each of these skills. I am on an improvement kick, and I think organization is the most appropriate way to excell quickly. Here's my new list, and what has been done today so far. It's 3 AM, so I will have finished the list by 4, and then I can go sleep. I have no job and I'm with my parents until the 16th, when the next semester starts.
REPS: 1000 every day
DEC 30
Crankroll Mount:50
Fakie Crankroll Mount:50
Backroll Mount:10
Rolling Wrap:50
180US:50
Koosh Koosh:50
Seat Wrap:50
Backward:50
Donkey Kick:50
Crankflip:50
Push Mush:50
Fakie Push Mush:50
90Tirehop&down:0
Fakie 1ft idle:50
1fwwLanding:0
1foot:50
Fakie 1foot:50
Pedal Grab:0
High Jump:0
Varial Roll:0

I'm going to keep a word document on my desktop to ensure that I actually get this done. By the 18th, I am hoping to have all of these tricks down, and those 'mounts' will disappear and become the real thing in a week or so.

Cheers,
Lance

[IntoIt]

REPS: 1000 every day
DEC 30
Crankroll Mount:50
Fakie Crankroll Mount:50
Backroll Mount:90/90
Rolling Wrap:50
180US:50
Koosh Koosh:50
Seat Wrap:50
Backward:50
Donkey Kick:25
Crankflip:50
Push Mush:50
Fakie Push Mush:50
90Tirehop&down:75/75
Fakie 1ft idle:50
1fwwLanding:50/100
1foot:50
Fakie 1foot:50
Pedal Grab:50/100
High Jump:100/100
Varial Roll:75/100
Total:1115 /1265

Yesterday, I made up for some of what I didn't do two days ago. I have to finish that today.

[DSchmitt]

nice brah. wish i had the motivation to practice all them tricks. i've tried at least 2500 turnarounds now. little bitches....

[IntoIt]

OK, this is going to be the last post I make like this for a while because everytime I post in here it automatically bumps the thread, and some would find it distasteful to have a face full of Lance everytime they entered the Articles and Tutorials section.

Past two days: New Year's Eve I was drunk, New Year's Day I was hung over, and Today I am quite sore. But I'm hangin' in there as long as I can. I have seen improvement on EVERY trick on this list within the first four days.

DEC 31
Crankroll Mount:50
Fakie Crankroll Mount:50
Backroll Mount:50
Rolling Wrap:50
360 Unispin:50
Koosh Koosh:50
Seat Wrap:50
Backward:50
Donkey Kick:75/75
Crankflip:50
Push Mush:50
Fakie Push Mush:50
90Tirehop&down:0/75
Fakie 1ft idle:50
1fwwLanding:100/100
1foot:20
Fakie 1foot:20
Pedal Grab:0/100
High Jump:30
Varial Roll:75/75

Total:920 /1150
_________________

Jan1
Crankroll Mount: 50
Fakie Crankroll Mount:50
Backroll Mount: 50
Fakie Backroll Mount:50
Seat Wrap:50
Rolling Wrap:50
360 Unispin:50
Koosh Koosh:50
Backward:50
Donkey Kick:50
Crankflip:50
Push Mush:50
Fakie Push Mush:50
90Tirehop&down:101/125
1fwwLanding:20
Stand-up Wheelwalk:21/80
Fakie 1foot:0/80
Pedal Grab:100/150
High Jump:70/70
Varial Roll:50

Total: 1012/1230

As you see, as I learn tricks, I swap them out for ones I can NOT do. On the 31st, I swapped the 180 unispin for 360. Yesterday, I swapped the fakie 1-foot idle for the Standup Wheelwalk. Today, I am adding in the 180 stepover in place of the fakie 1-foot. I won't do any more substitutions for a while, probably, except for replacing the "Roll Mounts" with the actual Rolls.

From now on, I will post only my totals, and I will do it every five days for the next fifteen days.

Cheers,
Lance

[IntoIt]

I know I said I wouldn't do this, but fuck it; I'm proud of my hard work today!

I added in two more new skills, so it is now 1100 reps/day, though if I get too sore and only make it to 20,000 on the 18th - my original goal, I'm not going to beat myself up. I'm only human, and I'm already taking the maximum dose of ibuprofen. :)

Jan2
Crankroll Mount: 50
Switch Crankroll Mount:50
Backroll Mount: 50
Switch Backroll Mount:50
Seat Wrap:50
Rolling Wrap:50
180 Unispin:50
Koosh Koosh:50
Spin:50
Backward:50
Backspin:50
Donkey Kick:50
Crankflip:50
Push Mush:50
Switch Push Mush:50
90Tirehop&down:74/74
1fwwLanding:80/80
Stand-up Wheelwalk:90/109
180 Stepover:81/130
Pedal Grab:50/100
High Jump:50
Varial Roll:50
Total: 1225/1218 (NOW 1318)

[IntoIt]

Slacked a bit yesterday...made up for it today. Almost finished up, but got so tired by the end...I can barely move.

Jan 4
Crankroll Mount: 50
Switch Crankroll Mount:50
Backroll Mount: 100/100
Switch Backroll Mount:50
Seat Wrap:50
Rolling Wrap:50
180 Unispin:50
Koosh Koosh:100/100
Spin:50
Backward:40
Backspin:30
Donkey Kick:100/100
Crankflip:50
Push Mush:50
Switch Push Mush:50
90Tirehop&down:50
1fwwLanding:50
Stand-up Wheelwalk:69/99
180 Stepover:149/149
Pedal Grab:100/150
Up 4set:50
Varial Roll:100/100
Total: 1458/1548

[IntoIt]

Here's a little update: I am getting good enough at the 180 unispin to where I think 360s should be a priority - but of course I don't want to stop practicing the 180, so I will add another slot for the 360 tomorrow, and I am also adding another slot for rolling hops up/down (either up or down objects - I don't want to make slots for both right now because there's a lot on my plate already.)

These will be in addition to the 360 hoptwist recently added. I apparently can already do a 360 with a prehop (450 total including the prehop), probably because I've been using a torker lx all this time and just upgraded to something much lighter, but I'd like to be able to do it without a prehop, so it's on the list.

I also added in the glide today. It's the whole reason why the first trick I learned was wheelwalk, and the second was one-foot wheelwalk, and I just never learned it.

I have a little bit of debt to make up before I add in the two new tricks, so if I don't clear the debt tonight, then I will add them in the day after tomorrow. It's not even 8pm yet here, but here is my progress so far for the day with debt shown.
Starting tomorrow, if I clear the debt tonight, it will be 1250 reps/day tomorrow(25 tricks x 50 reps).

Crankroll Mount:50
Switch Crankroll Mount:50
Backroll Mount:50
Switch Backroll Mount:50
Seat Wrap:50
Rolling Wrap:50180 Unispin:50/121
360 Hoptwist:58/58Koosh Koosh:/150
Spin:50/106
Backward:50/100
Backspin:50/100
Donkey Kick:76/90
Crankflip:50
Push Mush:50
Switch Push Mush:5090 Tirehop:50/129
1fwwLanding:/94
Glide:50Stand-up Wheelwalk:10/108
180 Stepover:50
Pedal Grab:50
High Jump:85/110
Varial Roll:50

There has been a marked improvement in each of these skills, and I expect that to continue, though when school starts back up in ten days, I will have to be more selective in my practice.

Cheers,
Lance

[IntoIt]

I have made some adjustments as per suggestions and ideas from people on this forum, as well as because of some of my own feelings. My right arm is strong but arthritic, so I am going to start doing everything blind that requires arm strength. I am also going to add a few more switch tricks to the list officially to make sure I keep my flat learning even. It will be more difficult - my switch rolling wrap is a joke right now - but I think it will be worth it in the long run. I am also adding rolling hops and switch rolling hops to the list, since they are very important, and I am reducing the amount of reps for less important or easier tricks. Here's the new list:

THE NEW LIST

Crankroll Mount:/50, Switch Crankroll Mount:/50
Backroll Mount:/50, Switch Backroll Mount:/50
Seat Wrap: /50, Switch Seat Wrap:/50
Rolling Wrap:/50, Switch Rolling Wrap:/50
BLIND 180 Unispin:/50
BLIND 360 unispin:50
BLIND 360 Hoptwist:/50
Koosh Koosh:/25
Spin:25
Backward:/25
Backspin:/25
Donkey Kick:/50
Crankflip:/50
Push Mush:/50, Switch Push Mush:/50
BLIND 90 Tirehop:/25 (This really hurts my back)
1fwwLanding:/25
Glide:/25
Stand-up Wheelwalk:/25
180 Stepover:/25
BLIND 180 Stepover:/25
Pedal Grab:/25, BLIND Pedal Grab:/25
High Jump:/25, BLIND High Jump:/25
Rolling Hop:/50, Switch Rolling Hop:/50
Varial Roll:/50
Total: /1150

The total is the same as it was before. Notice that I am not introducing a switch varial roll because the varial roll is so damn hard that getting it regular will be good enough for now.

I am on schedule and going to achieve the 20,000 reps by the 18th goal if I continue along these lines. In fact, if I continue loyally, it will put me at over 22,000.

Cheers,
Lance

[DSchmitt]

something clicked today with turnarounds.

i've done at least 5000

it seems for every 1000 more i do i can land 1 more in a row.

so maybe by 30000 i can do 30 in a row...and finally move onto high rails

YouTube - FIVE TURNAROUNDS IN A ROW

[padst3r]

You have to remember though that you need to learn how to fall off and not get scared doing a turnaround on a high rail.The more you fall and realise its not so bad the more confident you get on the rail and youll be doing 5 in a row on the high rail and maybe 30 in a row on a low rail because of the build in confidence.It's a skill on its own and is the skill ive been working on for most of my unicycling time.Feel the fear and do it anyway

[DSchmitt]

i definitely agree with that. i think i'm going to start slowly raising the 4x4 with pallets. i'll put the things the 4x4 sits on on 1 pallet at first, and keep raising it as i get more confidence