What does your religion mean to you?

[peleschramm]

Lately, I have been fairly interested in philosophy/psychology/religion in general, and I figured that this thread would probably help me gain some insight in the matter.

In any case, I am looking for several items in your responses:

1. What religion would you consider yourself?

2. What do you believe in regards to religious beliefs? Please do not say something along the lines of "I believe in everything in the bible". If you base your beliefs off of a scripture of sorts, please be more specific. For example, say "I believe that everything in the bible is accurate, factual, and should be taken completely literally. If it's in the bible, then it had happened exactly as it was described in their, and there are no exceptions on the matter", or perhaps you could say "I believe that while the bible is a good source of information, and does provide the story of what DID happen, it is not necessarily entirely accurate, and a lot of it should not be taken literally, but rather in a more symbolic manner". Really try to be as specific as possible, as I have noticed that although there are many many people that consider themselves Christian out there, they often have a slightly different take on the scriptures that are regarded as Christian teachings. Saying that you have Christian beliefs really doesn't mean much unless you specify. Try to also specify other things, such as how strongly you stand behind these beliefs, and if you would ever be willing to accept or look into other ideas. Just things like that. If you are undecided were you stand in this area, just specify in what areas you are undecided, and perhaps share some thoughts on religious beliefs, like tell us what beliefs you are sort of in between, and what seems like it may be right to you and what seems like it may be wrong to you. It's okay to be undecided, just let us know where your beliefs stand.

3. Now that that has been said, what does your religion really mean to you? Is your religion merely an explanation of why things are the way they are, and nothing more? Is your religion not really anything intellectual, but rather a sort of emotional (or other type of) feeling? Is it a set of guidelines on how to live your life happily? Is it a set of guidelines that help you live morally? Is it a set of guidelines that allow you to live your life in a manner that will give you reward in the afterlife? Is it just a sort of annoying set of rules that you feel like you have to follow? Is it there to give you hope? Is it there to give you emotional comfort? Do you really feel a sort of spiritual being in your heart, or otherwise within you, or do you only regard your religion in intellectual, and non sensual or emotional terms? I think that's enough examples, simply say what your religion means to you.

4. How has your religion affected you, and how do you think it will affect you in the future? Has it helped? Has it harmed? How so? Just things of that nature.

5. What other people that you know regard religion in the same, or a very similar manner? This includes also what your beliefs are, not only how you feel about religion. Does your family regard religion as you do? Do your friends? Does your pastor? Stuff like that.

6. What had caused you to believe/behave/feel/etc. in the ways that you had described above? What brought you to these conclusions?


Please try to go into these questions as deep as possible, or as you would be willing to go.

Also, this should not turn into another religious debate thread, as we are discussing what other people think about religions, and it's hard to argue with someone that he/she doesn't think in the way they claim they do. Just let us know where you stand, and that is what matters here, not whether where you stand is the right place to stand. If you cannot resist the urge to argue, please either PM whoever you wish to argue with, or post in one of the already existing religious debate threads and just post a link to your argument in this thread. This thread's purpose is not to make judgments of others or anything like that, but rather to increase my insight and knowledge in the matter, as well as the interested members of this community.

So put thought into your posts, and I would love to hear from all of you.


As an afterthought, sorry for making the original post so long, for those of you who didn't feel like reading as much as I wrote. For those of you who read all the way through, I'm glad you took the time. Congrats to you, and thanks.


Edit: I intend to eventually post my own response to this myself, but I am out of time right now.

[hungry4uni]

Ever since I was born, I went to the Mormon church. As I got older, the fuel to go was not so much routine, as want. I love my church soooo much. I have family members serving missions right now. One is in South Korea, one in New York, and a few other places. My church has taught me to strive to do my best, and to work hard for exaltation. I am a teacher in my church, soon to be priest. I am also the Teachers Quorum President. I just got done with seminary as well. Seminary is an early morning class that you take your freshman to senior year. I get up at 5:30 to get ready. Although it's tough, waking up get's a bunch easier. :) I love to read from the Bible and Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.

In the coming years, I see my self going on a mission, going to college, getting married in the temple, and raising of family. OF UNICYCLISTS NO DOUBT!

[itsmrbudman2u]

I think anyone who claims to know the truth about life, or death, or our creator, or lack of, is either lying to themselves, believing in something out of fear of the unknown, or just blindly going along with the stories their parents told them.

I have nothing against believers, most of my friends and loved ones are. And the vast majority of them are really good hearted people who are probably in the "blindly going along with the stories their parents told them" category. No real harm in that. But I just can't see how, if you really think about it, anyone can claim to KNOW. I HOPE there is something more than just going through a single life cycle and ending with dying and total lack of consciousness. That terrifies me. But until I get some kind of proof, any kind, that is not a story some other human tells or writes, I just can't claim to know.

[Biggestbtc]

I think anyone who claims to know the truth about life, or death, or our creator, or lack of, is either lying to themselves, believing in something out of fear of the unknown, or just blindly going along with the stories their parents told them.

I have nothing against believers, most of my friends and loved ones are. And the vast majority of them are really good hearted people who are probably in the "blindly going along with the stories their parents told them" category. No real harm in that. But I just can't see how, if you really think about it, anyone can claim to KNOW. I HOPE there is something more than just going through a single life cycle and ending with dying and total lack of consciousness. That terrifies me. But until I get some kind of proof, any kind, that is not a story some other human tells or writes, I just can't claim to know.
I guess we're pretty bad off then. Who's going to come back from the dead and tell us what it's really like in the realm of death?

[itsmrbudman2u]

*edited*

After reading the post originator's request to not turn this into a debate, I erased my response to Biggest.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

What religion do I consider myself?
I derive meaing in life, guidence and spiritual nurishment from all religions, so I guess I believe in all religions. They're all the same after you get past the whole deity crap.
What do I believe in regards to religious beliefs?
Beliefs such as God making the earth in 6 days and so forth, I don't really think much of. I have seen evidence and explations of the earth evolving over billions of years and all I've heard for stories like the Christian creation myth are just that, stories.
what does my religion really mean to me?
It is a way for me to teach myself how to conduct myself. It's something that teaches me respect, cordiality, generosity, etc.
It gives me guidlines to follow to be a good person.
How has my religion affected me?
Of course, I'm not truly "religious" but my dabbling in it, I think, has brought me to be a more accepting, gentler person. I hope that it will continue to make me a kind guy.
That's all I really want out of it.
What other people that I know regard religion in the same, or a very similar manner?
My parents, many of my friends... yeah.
What had caused you to believe/behave/feel/etc. in the ways that you had described above?
When I started reading religion, I just knew that it was right. I knew that what I was reading was the way a person should act so I try my best to live up to those ideals.

[peleschramm]

I think anyone who claims to know the truth about life, or death, or our creator, or lack of, is either lying to themselves, believing in something out of fear of the unknown, or just blindly going along with the stories their parents told them.

I have nothing against believers, most of my friends and loved ones are. And the vast majority of them are really good hearted people who are probably in the "blindly going along with the stories their parents told them" category. No real harm in that. But I just can't see how, if you really think about it, anyone can claim to KNOW. I HOPE there is something more than just going through a single life cycle and ending with dying and total lack of consciousness. That terrifies me. But until I get some kind of proof, any kind, that is not a story some other human tells or writes, I just can't claim to know.
I know you already realized your wrongdoing, but I think it's necessary that I address this.

This thread is not supposed to be about what other people's religions mean to you, it's supposed to be about what YOUR religion means to you. It would be interesting to hear more from you about what your own personal beliefs mean to you.

[BillyTheMountain]

I know you already realized your wrongdoing, but I think it's necessary that I address this.

This thread is not supposed to be about what other people's religions mean to you, it's supposed to be about what YOUR religion means to you. It would be interesting to hear more from you about what your own personal beliefs mean to you.

Pele,

Nicely executed.

Billy

[itsmrbudman2u]

OK then. Here it goes.


1. What religion would you consider yourself?

Agnostic

2. What do you believe in regards to religious beliefs?

I believe I have seen no reason to conclude that any one or one's religion has the true answer to the questions of life, death, a Creator, and the meaning of it all. I don't claim to be an Atheist, because an Atheist takes the hard line stance that there is no God. I have no proof to claim I know that for a fact either.

3.what does your religion really mean to you?

I can't say my religion really means much to me at all. I toiled over finding the truth long enough in my younger days. I've accepted that I'll probably find out the truth the same way everyone else does.

4. How has your religion affected you, and how do you think it will affect you in the future?

I think being an Agnostic has really given me a sense of acceptance of being mortal. The way I see it. I'm here. I'm going to live my life on my personal moral guidelines. And if there is a higher meaning, I may find it, I may not.

5. What other people that you know regard religion in the same, or a very similar manner?

Many of my friends nod their head when I give my opinions about religion. At the end most of them will claim to be Christians, more by birth than practice. My girlfriend is an Atheist.

6. What had caused you to believe/behave/feel/etc. in the ways that you had described above?

I was brought up Catholic. As a young adult I studied and explored Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism. They all claimed to have the answer with their proof being a story someone else had told. I came to the conclusion that organized religions were formed with the motive of control and power over the followers. I was however exposed to some truly spiritual situations that I feel were supernatural experiences. This makes me believe that there is something. I just can't claim to know what.

[BillyTheMountain]

since u r agnostic and your grrl is an atheist, have you talked about which religion you wud raise the children?

do agnostics pray?

[itsmrbudman2u]

I have two children that I'm raising from an earlier marriage. My girlfriend and I are not having any children together. I've exposed my children to several religious beliefs ranging from a Roman Catholic Baptism, to a Rastafarian Groundation Day celebration. I tell them religion is something you have to choose for yourself. If one calls to you and you choose to follow it, do it with true honest intentions. If not, that's ok too. Be respectful of other people's beliefs as you would other cultures.

We most regularly attend a Lutheran church with my extended family. I enjoy the community and the message of the sermon is normally a positive one. I like the idea the Golden Rule, and the last 6 of the Ten Commandments.

I don't know about all agnostics, but I do not pray.

And Billy, I really like the quote in your sig.

[JJuggle]

And Billy, I really like the quote in your sig.
I don't know how Poincaré meant it, but as Billy uses it, it is a mere straw man thrown flippantly in the face of his fellow Unicyclist.com banterees.

[BillyTheMountain]

I don't know how Poincaré meant it, but as Billy uses it, it is a mere straw man thrown flippantly in the face of his fellow Unicyclist.com banterees.

You may experience it that way, but I mean it precisely as Poincare meant it.

Bring your straw man to the LBI Unithon, and I'll bring mine, and we'll flippantly throw them in each other's faces! It'll be a jolly good time!

I've exposed my children to several religious beliefs ranging from a Roman Catholic Baptism, to a Rastafarian Groundation Day celebration. I tell them religion is something you have to choose for yourself. If one calls to you and you choose to follow it, do it with true honest intentions.

true honest intentions! Wow! That's asking far more than religion asks. Religion allows that humans are fallible, and generally hypocrites. It's OK for the atheist in the foxhole to start praying to GOD. It's OK for devout Christians to hate, persecute, lie, cheat, etc. You're forgiven.

true honest intentions are not required, but usually it's appreciated if you put a bit of cash in the collection plate.
most regularly attend a Lutheran church with my extended family. I enjoy the community and the message of the sermon is normally a positive one. I like the idea the Golden Rule, and the last 6 of the Ten Commandments.

Polls show that many others attending that service are actually atheists. No one need make a point of it. Faith is not a requirement of membership or attendance.

Billy

[johnfoss]

What religion do I consider myself?
If anything, I'm a Uni-Uni.

What do I believe in regards to religious beliefs?
More than anything else, it shows that people can be made to believe anything. ANYTHING! Apparently without limit.

[MorseCode]

1. What religion would you consider yourself?

Christian -- as in Christ-like. None of these hypocritical Christian ideas you see everwhere today. Because of that, it's no wonder people think us ridiculous.

2. What do you believe in regards to religious beliefs?

Dare I say it, but I'm a person who must be convinced by facts. Christians who say things like "I believe in the Bible because it's God's Word" don't have a clue how to defend their beliefs. How can you believe something you can't defend with fact?

I believe in God and not because He "says so". I believe He truly is God for several reasons:


Historically, God is the only God who existed before he was given names by the Jews (they only gave him names so they would not brake his comandment to not take his name vainly). Technically, he's the only God who's existed since the very beginning. Other gods are given names the day they "exist". Sounds kind of fishy to me. Almost seems like, now that I've created this god, he needs a name.

Time span is also very important. Believers in Christ have written down accounts over thousands of years. The Bible was written by 40 known authors. Every single one of them say the exact same thing. However, in every other religion I can account for, it seems a god began "existence" within a lifespan and his accounts were written by either one man's ideas or a group of men who sat down to discuss this "new god". In some cases the god adapts with culture.

It is no question whether Christ lived or not. He did exist. The question is whether or not he was who he said he was. But he himself challanged people who did not believe in or questioned him to read the prophecies written centuries and centuries before, and if it were not so, Christ told them not to believe in him. They did so and believed. In order for him to be the Messiah he had to fulfill every single prophecy (being born of a virgin; being born in Bethelem; being among the seed of David; healing the sick, the blind, freeing the demon possessed; dying on a cross; resurrecting from the dead; and others such as his peirced side and not a bone in his body would be broken during the crucifixion). Proof of these fulfillments were not given by one man either, but several. Each of whom gave these written accounts to prove to others that this man is doing exactly what has been prophicied. They could not find a fault in him.

The Bible is also the only collection of books to give an exact account of the existence of earth. A day by day account that is. I don't believe in evolution for many reasons, not just because the Bible says the earth was created in six days, but becasue of what I see in nature. The existence of life cannot be explained by evolution, so science clearly does not have all the answers; Earth's halflife is only roughly 5 thousand or so years old which makes the earth's age at billions or millions of years literally impossible; the theories behind evolution brake more laws of physics and chemistry then any other belief I can account for. Dinosaur remains have been found with food in their bellies. There also was a set of human footprints found directly intermingled with a dinosaur's, these footprints where made the same day in the same mud.

Geography proves that the Flood (or the Exodus) really did occur. And even today some aetheists are considering the possibly of worldwide flood. Even Egyptian hieroglyphics talk of a worldwide flood before their time. Fossil records also show huge masses of fish buried rapidly, even some of these have been found at the peaks of mountains. A pair of fighting dinos was also perfectly perserved by rapid burial.

I have many other reasons but won't exhaust you with them. However, should you be curious, you can read Ken Ham's "The Great Dinosaur Mystery Solved". It discusses how the idea of Noah's Ark was possible and how Dinosaurs lived during the time of man in earlier human civilizations like the Chinese--thus resulting in their depicting of dinosaurs in their dragons. Even if you don't believe it, it's an interesting read and you'll get a better understanding of why Christians believe in an Earth only thousands of years old. In any case, I encourage research, and be careful, there are a lot of bais writings out there--Christian and aethiest alike.


3.what does your religion really mean to you?

My religion is everything to me. It not only answers questions aethiests cannot, but it also gives me a different feeling then anything I can explain. It's a peace in the worst of circumstances, but even then it's more then that. I have tons of stories from people throughout the years that have seen things they can't explain (and I'm not talking ghosts or wierd incidences)<PM me if you want to read a few>. The way I live my life isn't directed simply from what I read, but...well, I can't explain it... Think of it as when you're reading a book that you can barely understand or something about it just confuses you, but for reason you have this feeling on heart which explains everything as clear as day. Like someone's whispering in your ear telling you what to do next, and when you don't understand why you do anyway, and it ends up being the perfect choice you could have made. I can't explain it, you have to experience it, but sadly you can't just read a Bible and expect it to happen. You have to be open and humble and be willing to learn something that might tick you off. In sort, I'd die for what I believe in (not to be confused with religious beliefs that spawned 9-11). If someone had a gun to my head and asked "Are you a Christian?" I'd be forced to say "yes" with pride.

4. How has your religion affected you, and how do you think it will affect you in the future?

I've had hardships, but not because of what I believe. Mostly it's from aethiests saying I'm so close minded. Truthfully, I'm not. If they claim something, I feel compelled to prove it. Sometimes I believe them, sometimes I don't. But just because I believe in God, does not automatically make me close minded like they tell me so many times. In actuality, I've met so many aetheists that have told me that believing in any god is close minded. What doesn't make sense to me is when they are saying that evolution is a freedom of thought, but anything else is close minded. Talk about oxymoronic.

My personality has also changed a great deal. I used to be so negitive about everything, but now I've had comments about being so positive. I've had people walk up to me asking what my secret was. I didn't know what to tell them because I didn't know I changed so much.

5. What other people that you know regard religion in the same, or a very similar manner?

My family pretty much has the same beliefs I do. However, my dad always instructs us to look for the facts ourselves. He's told me time and time again that if I adopted what he believes simply because he believes, it would make him sad and even disappointed. Anytime he gives a lecture, he'll prove what he means through what he knows historically and scientifically, and leave us to make our choice. He encourages us to think for ourselves more then anything.

6. What had caused you to believe/behave/feel/etc. in the ways that you had described above?

If by now you can't guess that, you either didn't read the above or you weren't paying attention. :D

Sorry, this is so long, but according to the Bible (which I believe for the reasons above) I am to "give every man an answer". I tried to give the best answers to your questions. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.

[peleschramm]

Pele,

Nicely executed.

Billy
Billy,

Thanks.

Pele

...

Haha, is your name AJ by chance? You sound exactly like a coworker of mine called AJ, and I mean EXACTLY.

Any way, I would like to thank you for really going into depth on this one. If you would like to argue your points (I noticed that you phrased a lot of things in a sort of debating/challenging manner, though that might just be me), I would like to encourage you to not use this thread, but resurrect a religious debate thread (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49106&page=36) instead. It seems like almost all threads about religion so far had turned into big debates, and this one is not about arguing that you are right, it's meant for saying what you believe and what it means to you. I would not like this one to end up in a heated argument, as then I fear that people would feel too intimidated to answer the original questions, or get too caught up in the debate to pay any attention to the original questions. I love well-thought out religious debates (as long as they do really come with logical assertions and not just a bunch of people arguing with no thought or knowledge), but that's not for here. So yeah, if you would like, post what you said in the thread that I had linked.


Edit: Also, you hadn't said this directly, but I assume that you interpret the bible in a completely literal manner?

[BillyTheMountain]

John,

Please look at a response to your post here:
http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49106&page=36

Billy

PS Is Uni Uni mean Unitarian Universalist?

[wobbling bear]

1. What religion would you consider yourself?
Atheist (I often say I am a "sufi atheist')

2. What do you believe in regards to religious beliefs?
no such beliefs for myself but interested in religious beliefs of others.

3. Now that that has been said, what does your religion really mean to you?
well I am like everybody else : I sometime need help. but I don't expect it to come from supernatural beliefs. no metaphysical angst.

4. How has your religion affected you, and how do you think it will affect you in the future? Has it helped? Has it harmed? How so? Just things of that nature.
though death of others affect me much, I am unconcerned by mine (mind you: I stick to life but not concerned by an after-death).
moral behaviour is extremely important to me but I don't proselitize and tend not to judge others harshly.


5. What other people that you know regard religion in the same, or a very similar manner? This includes also what your beliefs are, not only how you feel about religion. Does your family regard religion as you do? Do your friends? Does your pastor? Stuff like that.
I am in a rather agnostic/atheist environment : dominant part of the local culture. When invited to a religious wedding or funeral I sing with others (few people sing in fact!), I can pretend to be a catholic, a muslim, a jew or an adorator of Bacchus without being too much hypocritical (for sure I loathe sects)

6. What had caused you to believe/behave/feel/etc. in the ways that you had described above? What brought you to these conclusions?
cultural influence (the air I breathe, the food I eat is not impregned by religion)

[phlegm]

1. Christian.

2. I've come to realize that my Christian belief mostly, if not entirely, hinges upon whom I believe Jesus was. I believe people wrote about Jesus because they experienced something they deemed worth writing about. So, in part, I consider Christianity an exploration and elucidation of why Jesus is/was important. From a perspective of logical necessity within the Biblical narrative, Jesus is important because he was the fulfillment of the historical faith described in the Old Testament. On a social level, Jesus is important because he is the central example of love. On a religious level, Jesus is important because he points to an ultimate future when God will, in faith, be fully revealed.

I believe the Bible is accurate enough and clear enough to convey its meanings (in relation to us). There will always be conspiracy theorists to support any conspiracy one could imagine, but I haven't seen any solid evidence to suggest that the authors intended to mislead us with what they wrote or that they were somehow less qualified to perceive reality than we are with our present perspectives.

Also, saying that parts of the Bible should not be read literally does not imply that they are inaccurate or false. The field of Biblical exegesis is complex, and Bible scholars put forth great effort to determine how a passage should be read. That is to say, there are literary and historical methodologies for determining how to read a given passage in the Bible--while they are not exact science, they are also not purely arbitrary.

In short summary, the Biblical narrative begins with histories and historical writings of people that experienced God in diverse ways, yet they hoped for a coming Messiah. Jesus revealed as the Messiah is the climax, and we are all part of the unfolding toward the completion of the Biblical narrative, which concludes (in the future) at the ultimate end. So, I believe we determine meanings of the Bible for the present, but the fully definitive meaning is not determined until the end.

3. Christianity provides perspectives of us in relation to ultimate stuff like:
a) What is the (ultimate) meaning of life?
b) What happens at the end (or ultimate future)?
c) What values are (ultimately) important?

Of course, those questions only lead to more questions. But inquiry is the way we gain insight, so I'm not too caught up in having definitive answers. Poetically speaking, the journey is often much more meaningful than the destination.

For me, Christianity is very intellectual, and I think that is largely because I tend to intellectualize everything, for better or for worse. I've often found that this puts me at odds with those who are more experientially or emotionally driven in their approach to religion. I have a hard time accepting that they don't care to think as critically as me, and I'm sure they get fed up with my endless questioning.

4. Christianity has forced me to think outside of the box that my unduly narrowly conceived science education left me in. Also, without my own recognition of the value of profound love, I think it would be far too easy to convince myself to act destructively and according to cynical perspectives.

Keep in mind that this is just a snapshot of my present beliefs. I expect that I will formulate my beliefs differently in the future simply because I will change over time.

5. I share bits and pieces of beliefs with many, but I don't personally know anyone that enjoys thinking about religion both as systematically as I do and in a similar vein. More often than not my dialog partners for Christianity are theological texts. Recently I mentioned to my wife that finding someone else that thinks similarly as me would probably require enrolling in a theological university program. My wife has a theology degree, and we even often don't see eye-to-eye in regards to theology.

My immediate family is largely Christian--my brother is even a seminary educated ordained pastor, but they have at least some perspectives of Christianity that differ from mine. Most of my friends don't consider themselves Christians, so obviously they probably wouldn't agree with many of my explicitly Christian views. There have been a few pastors in my life that I have great respect for because I can tell that what they say has much deep and sincere thought behind it, but I wouldn't say I necessarily agree with everything they say.

Ultimately this phrase applies: "In Essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love." My experience with the Evangelical Covenant denomination has made evident to me that people with widely diverse political, social, and theological views can get along and be constructive. Christianity doesn't have to be a dogma machine that churns out clones.

While I do have my own views about Christianity, I think it would delusional to believe that my views are the only correct way to understand Christianity. We're all motivated by unique life experiences and desires, so expressions of Christianity are necessarily diverse. Sometimes in discussion I do offer Christian ideas that I'm not personally very moved by. In those cases, my intention is not to mislead but rather to the point out the diversity of Christian thought.

6. My views might be different if I were born into a predominantly Islamic culture, but the fact is that I was born into a culture with a worldview largely rooted in Christian ideas. I've come to realize that Christianity has all the intellectual depth that I want in a religion, and Christianity complements other systems of knowledge I value, like the natural sciences. So, I don't feel any desire to consider converting to another religion. Nonetheless, I can still learn about other religions to see what they have to lend to my understanding.

My pursuit of Christianity is very much about working toward meaning given the understandings that we have. This requires taking seriously every reasonable atheistic criticism and the primacy of the natural sciences to our understanding. I believe a Christian expression that doesn't do that renders Christianity meaningless and incoherent for myself and others who share my scientific outlook.

[maestro8]

1. What religion would you consider yourself?
I don't like to think of myself as a religion. I'd rather say that I live my life by a personal philosophy. I've assembled my personal philosophy from various studies of Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism. I like to think of the world as a buffet of philosophies, and I take what I feel I need, when I need it, and incorporate it into my life.

2. What do you believe in regards to religious beliefs?
I believe every action has a consequence. I don't believe in "karma points" but I do believe it is in everyone's best interest to do good for both themselves and others, however you may interpret that concept.

I believe that life is based upon suffering. I don't believe in the concept of "fairness". To believe in such a thing, I think, makes life that much more difficult.

I believe that nature is the ultimate power, that to align one's self against nature in any way, is to plot one's own demise, or at least increase one's own suffering.

I believe in the unity of nature and living things, that beneath the illusion of reality, we are all one. I believe that our minds lead us to believe that you and I and a tree and my cat are different, separate, unequal, but I believe there is a root of all beings, and we all share the same root. I'm not going to personify that root and say it is a deity or an omnipotent being, but I will say that this root binds us all together.

I believe that many of the world's problems would be abated if everyone could see through this illusion of "different, separate, unequal" and realize we're all quite alike. It seems that many, many struggles in this world come from others' desires to separate themselves from each other.

3. what does your religion really mean to you?
My personal philosophy gives me a frame of reference from which to see the world, and not be scared by the vastness and complexity of it all. It helps me make sense of both triumph and tragedy, in my life and in that of others. It is my very definition of "good" and "bad", my yardstick with which to measure my own success, my scale with which to weigh my decisions.

All this is done quite simply. I don't need to hold an action up against a set of rules to measure its worth. I simply realize the one-ness of reality and then everything else makes sense... that is, I realize that I, too, am the homeless man on the street corner, and to give him food is to feed myself. I realize that I, too, am the person behind the register at the grocery store and I would appreciate a friendly-natured customer who doesn't complain when I make a mistake.

I often run into situations in which I find it difficult to apply my philosophy, where I need to remind myself that I don't always have all the answers to life, and perhaps I need to simply absorb a situation and try and learn from it. I don't always come away with the right answer, but as long as I remember that I am the student, and life is the teacher, I believe I'll do better in the long run.

4. How has your religion affected you, and how do you think it will affect you in the future?
I can't say. I don't know what my life would be like otherwise. I don't know what's going to happen in the future.

5. What other people that you know regard religion in the same, or a very similar manner?
Generally, I don't probe others about their religious or philosophical beliefs... I'll read about it if someone cares to post, or respond if one queries, but I'm not one to make dinner conversation about such a topic.

6. What had caused you to believe/behave/feel/etc. in the ways that you had described above?
I think there are two parts to my "philosophical maturity". The first was moving away from my family's Christian beliefs. The message that I took home from church was that my life was meaningless without God, that my life mattered nothing to anyone but God. Whereas many in the chruch spoke of God with positive tones, I felt nothing but negativity. This turned me off to Christianity, to the point that I'd have nothing to do with it anymore.

The second part began in my early college years, when I took a class in non-western philosophy. As I was reading translations of texts such as the Bhagavad-Gita and the Tao Te Ching, I felt something of a resonance with the messages in these texts... as if they were telling me something I'd already known. From this, I felt I had already laid down the foundation for my personal philosophy, and here was the material that would build the rest.

All in all, I feel much more satisfied with life having made peace with religion. As a youth, I felt anxious that I couldn't integrate Christianity into my life, possibly because the community in which I grew up was largely Christian. Now I realize that religion / philosophy is not something to worry about, that life has much larger problems in store for us, and that we should appreciate every day as it comes.

As a Lao Tzu (mis)quote goes: "Be Content with what you have; rejoice in the way things are. When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you."

[uni57]

I don't know how Poincaré meant it, but as Billy uses it, it is a mere straw man thrown flippantly in the face of his fellow Unicyclist.com banterees.I can't wait to see both of you at the Unithon. Both of you together. In the same place. At the same time.

[MorseCode]

Billy,

Thanks.

Pele



Haha, is your name AJ by chance? You sound exactly like a coworker of mine called AJ, and I mean EXACTLY.

Any way, I would like to thank you for really going into depth on this one. If you would like to argue your points (I noticed that you phrased a lot of things in a sort of debating/challenging manner, though that might just be me), I would like to encourage you to not use this thread, but resurrect a religious debate thread (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49106&page=36) instead. It seems like almost all threads about religion so far had turned into big debates, and this one is not about arguing that you are right, it's meant for saying what you believe and what it means to you. I would not like this one to end up in a heated argument, as then I fear that people would feel too intimidated to answer the original questions, or get too caught up in the debate to pay any attention to the original questions. I love well-thought out religious debates (as long as they do really come with logical assertions and not just a bunch of people arguing with no thought or knowledge), but that's not for here. So yeah, if you would like, post what you said in the thread that I had linked.


Edit: Also, you hadn't said this directly, but I assume that you interpret the bible in a completely literal manner?

No, I'm not AJ. But it sounds like he and I could get along well. :D

I wasn't trying to debate anything else I would have put references for each of my claims. I was just trying to give you a complete answer in terms of myself and why I believe what I do. I did get carried away; I'm just passionate about what I believe. :D I guess I put so much of the "reason" I believe in God beacuse if I hadn't researched and convinced myself of His exsistence, I'd be hardcore aetheist.

Also, your statement about "taking the Bible literally" is half accurate. The Bible reads like any other written work published today. It's not ALL literal nor is it ALL metaphorical. This is why research in original translations helps and also keeping an eye out for similes and metaphors. For instance, when the Bible says Jesus' sweat was as blood, many people misread the context to mean he sweated blood. In actuality it's a simile for the droplets of sweat building up and rolling down his face LIKE blood. Also, watch out for new translations of the Bible. Many times when it's translated entire sections of chapters are either removed or reworked to the point of exhaustion. Even footnotes or entries at the bottom of the pages can be misleading. Also, in the days the books were written, they didn't have certain words or the words were generalized. 'Dragon' is one of these words. Today we refer to them, dragons, as dinosaurs, but back then it was used to describe just about any kind of reptile--for instance, a crocodile or iguana and even leviathan. Jonah's book is a good example of this when it interchanges words like 'whale' and 'fish'. It's not a contradiction because 'whale' and 'fish' were both used to refer to a large creature of the ocean. However, today we have literal meanings for everything; so as we read, we think of now and not then and assume a fish must've been a whale-like shark of some sort. This is why paying close attention to descriptions of occurances or creatures helps in translation. From descriptions, we can deduce that the sea creature that swallowed Jonah was a species of large whale, and not a shark. In short, context is key.

Okay, I did it again...:eek: LOL

[MorseCode]

Billy,

Thanks.

Pele



Haha, is your name AJ by chance? You sound exactly like a coworker of mine called AJ, and I mean EXACTLY.

Any way, I would like to thank you for really going into depth on this one. If you would like to argue your points (I noticed that you phrased a lot of things in a sort of debating/challenging manner, though that might just be me), I would like to encourage you to not use this thread, but resurrect a religious debate thread (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49106&page=36) instead. It seems like almost all threads about religion so far had turned into big debates, and this one is not about arguing that you are right, it's meant for saying what you believe and what it means to you. I would not like this one to end up in a heated argument, as then I fear that people would feel too intimidated to answer the original questions, or get too caught up in the debate to pay any attention to the original questions. I love well-thought out religious debates (as long as they do really come with logical assertions and not just a bunch of people arguing with no thought or knowledge), but that's not for here. So yeah, if you would like, post what you said in the thread that I had linked.


Edit: Also, you hadn't said this directly, but I assume that you interpret the bible in a completely literal manner?

No, I'm not AJ. But it sounds like he and I could get along well. :D

I wasn't trying to debate anything else I would have put references for each of my claims. I was just trying to give you a complete answer in terms of myself and why I believe what I do. I did get carried away; I'm just passionate about what I believe. :D I guess I put so much of the "reason" I believe in God beacuse if I hadn't researched and convinced myself of His exsistence, I'd be hardcore aetheist.

Also, your statement about "taking the Bible literally" is half accurate. The Bible reads like any other written work published today. It's not ALL literal nor is it ALL metaphorical. This is why research in original translations helps and also keeping an eye out for similes and metaphors. For instance, when the Bible says Jesus' sweat was as blood, many people misread the context to mean he sweated blood. In actuality it's a simile for the droplets of sweat building up and rolling down his face LIKE blood. Also, watch out for new translations of the Bible. Many times when it's translated entire sections of chapters are either removed or reworked to the point of exhaustion. Even footnotes or entries at the bottom of the pages can be misleading. Also, in the days the books were written, they didn't have certain words or the words were generalized. 'Dragon' is one of these words. Today we refer to them, dragons, as dinosaurs, but back then it was used to describe just about any kind of reptile--for instance, a crocodile or iguana and even leviathan. Jonah's book is a good example of this when it interchanges words like 'whale' and 'fish'. It's not a contradiction because 'whale' and 'fish' were both used to refer to a large creature of the ocean. However, today we have literal meanings for everything; so as we read, we think of now and not then and assume a fish must've been a whale-like shark of some sort. This is why paying close attention to descriptions of occurances or creatures helps in translation. From descriptions, we can deduce that the sea creature that swallowed Jonah was a species of large whale, and not a shark. In short, context is key.

Okay, I did it again...:eek: LOL

[BillyTheMountain]

Maestro,go to the Debate Religion thread, if u want to debate.

otherwise, accept defeat!

HA!

[JJuggle]

I can't wait to see both of you at the Unithon
Well that beats all.

[maestro8]

otherwise, accept defeat!

ur feet smell. i'll accept no such thing.