Why don't we invade North Korea?

[feel the light]

Not much of a war monger, so I am a little surprised I am thinking this.

Here's the plan. Nato, Russia and China sign into a plan to "give" North Korea to South Korea. This team blows away the nut jobs currently running North Korea, and yet would not be left with a mess like Iraq.

Sorta like other failed communist states, East Germany combined with West Germany, this plan has a reasonably successful track record.

I think the reason this particular spoke in the axis of evil never got tightened had to do with the fact that there was a whole lot more $ going to Cheny Inc. by going into Iraq. But I digress.

Bang for buck. The most classic way to define War economics. We could (and should), get the Chinese and South Koreans to do this, with only minor USA help. We spent a Trillion $ enriching Cheny Inc. by invading Iraq. Why not invade a country that is ABSOLUTELY RUN BY A NUT WHO IS MAKING NUKES.:eek: For only a few billion dollars. Removing a proven nut who has exploded Atom bombs and launched many missiles. His mental health is not improving, and his people are suffering badly.

It makes a lot of sense from a humanitarian viewpoint, the North Koreans live in fear of their nut job dictator, while starving. They will truly greet the South Koreans as liberators, there will be no costly occupation (for USA) like in Iraq. The North Koreans know they live in a prison camp run by psychos, and dream of life in the South everyday.

The Korean War of the 1950's will not reoccur. That was a "Cold War" proxy fight between the USSR-Mao vs. USA. In this new situation, Nato, China, Russia and the USA is one team, with a hand off to South Korea as the end game.

The "short war", I so cheerfully suggest would be basically the whole world vs. Kim Stupidly Ill II . Then the South Koreans move in and revamp the country, instead of expensive USA clueless Black Water gun slingers , and endless billions of dollars a USA occupation requires. South Korea could handle the post war period with minor funding. I bet North Korea would fold faster then Iraq did. The news that they are now part of a country with wages 10 x what they were making before, run by Koreans with the same language, not some weird westerners, will make all the difference.

[wickedbob]

34331

[Zzagg]

The North Koreans know they live in a prison camp run by psychos, and dream of life in the South everyday.Are you sure about that? What makes you think so?

[Biggestbtc]

Let's do it.

[GILD]

It beats the rationale for invading Iraq hands down.

[harper]

And we did so well in Korea last time.

[Mikefule]

Yes, I often find that when someone either hates me or is deeply suspicious of me, beating them to a pulp makes them like me. Except in real life, of course.

Real people die horribly in wars - even if many of them are not privileged to be Americans.

[BillyTheMountain]

Let's do it.

Who would Jesus bomb?

[Michaelgoround]

Who would Jesus bomb?
Why would Jesus need a bomb?

[BillyTheMountain]

Why would Jesus need a bomb?

it's funny

[Michaelgoround]

it's funny
Your Moms Funny!:D

[SirCharles1st]

I believe that it should be done only as a response to military aggression, as in they fire at us, not just they test bomb. Though by the looks of things, them firing at us might be pretty soon.. Also i worry about china's role. China seems to be against north koreas actions right now, but if it does go to war, will they side with us, them, or stay neutral. I think china has more economic benifit to stay on our side, but if they don't, then OUCH to our already wounded economy.
anyway, i haven't gone to and gotten through medical school yet.. if things heat up after or during med school, i might be able to find a lot more opportunities open to me :D

[BillyTheMountain]

Why would Jesus need a bomb?

y wud Jesus kill innocent north koreans?

[BillyTheMountain]

I believe that it should be done only as a response to military aggression, as in they fire at us, not just they test bomb. Though by the looks of things, them firing at us might be pretty soon.. Also i worry about china's role. China seems to be against north koreas actions right now, but if it does go to war, will they side with us, them, or stay neutral. I think china has more economic benifit to stay on our side, but if they don't, then OUCH to our already wounded economy.
anyway, i haven't gone to and gotten through medical school yet.. if things heat up after or during med school, i might be able to find a lot more opportunities open to me :D

i no there's a few of u from the usa here, but the rest of us get nervous every time the usa tests a nuclear weapon, and we're always saying: Why don't we invade the usa? If we all did it at once, they wdn't stand a chance!

[feel the light]

Well, both North and South have a million troops each on their DMZ, along with 80,000 USA troops. If they all got new jobs not being a tax burden, that would help the economies some.

I have read a couple million people starved in recent history, and that numerous prison factories can be seen around the North with google earth. So there should be some humanitarian gain to balance the loss of life in an invasion.

The flaw I see so far is that the cold war isn't all that over. Although Russia's government is closer in style to South Korea now, China stills shares some reverence for the "Communist supreme leader " form of government.

Basically, if China wanted to help the South take over the North, they could already do so, needing little help. North Korea is very dependent on China. So it is reasonable to assume China wants North Korea to stay communist, because it has been unwilling to use it's leverage in the past.

In that case my idea sucks. It requires China and South Korea to be on the same page about what a post war government would look like. To bad really, a united Korea would be in the best interest of the Koreans.

[Peripatet]

We are not the World Police.

If called, we will gladly go in and make the place safe for freedom and democracy. However, we've not gotten to that point. The Norks are thumbing their noses at us from across the school yard and you're saying we should go over and kick their teeth in.

And especially with NK's proximity to China, invading first prior to the commission of an overt act of aggression by the Norks, would be very bad juju. For instance, It'd be tough to get China on the right side in that situation, whereas waiting for the ChiComs or (god forbid) the Norks to move first could polarize in the opposite direction. Possibly.

NK does not have the military might we do, but they would not surrender as soon as we swooped in over the border, either. War, despite how easy it may look on paper, would still take time and money, two things the population is increasingly reluctant to give to wars overseas.

[BillyTheMountain]

I have read a couple million people starved in recent history, and that numerous prison factories can be seen around the North with google earth.

Listen, I think you should stop talking about bombing the usa. Sure the USA has prison factories in both the North and the South [www.unicor.gov - UNICOR - Federal Prison Industries. It is the mission of Federal Prison Industries, Inc. (FPI) to employ and provide job skills training to the greatest practicable number of inmates confined ...] The use holds far more of its own citizens in prisons.

Still, I'm a little concerned to hear you write: "So there should be some humanitarian gain to balance the loss of life in an invasion" because I KNOW people who live in the USA!

Let's just challenge the North Koreans at UNICON.

[peleschramm]

Great that you mention this.

Let's not wait for the government to take action, for we, as a community, can take the initiative. Unicyclists, mount up!

I nominate Adam Kover as our general, as he clearly has experience in mounted warfare.

All we need now is to each purchase a Torker 09, and we'll be set for battle. With the new Torker 09 at hand, we will be unstoppable, and the tyranny will be destroyed once and for all.

[BillyTheMountain]

Great that you mention this.

Let's not wait for the government to take action, for we, as a community, can take the initiative. Unicyclists, mount up!

I nominate Adam Kover as our general, as he clearly has experience in mounted warfare.

All we need now is to each purchase a Torker 09, and we'll be set for battle. With the new Torker 09 at hand, we will be unstoppable, and the tyranny will be destroyed once and for all.

Great idea! We should make tee shirts for this! UNICON, here we come! NK, prepare to be defeated!

[GILD]

invading first prior to the commission of an overt act of aggression by the Norks, would be very bad juju.

Yeah, it's not like you've EVER done that before, right?

[MrBoogiejuice]

The North Koreans haven't proved they have a sufficiently accurate enough missile able to deliver a nuclear payload yet and are between 10 and 30 years away from being at that level.

It's all posturing done more to increase Kim Jong Il's stature domestically than to seriously threaten the West.

And besides NK is on Chinese turf and is predominately their problem.

In the last Korean war the Chinese and Soviet backed NK gave the South Korean and UN forces a thorough whooping on a couple of occasions and almost took the whole country.

Though NK can't rely on military support from soviet countries anymore I can't imagine the Chinese being too chuffed if America were to invade NK and rock up on their border in serious numbers.

In the last war the Chinese joined in as they felt they were being encircled by US forces stationed around Asia after WW2.

[BillyTheMountain]

The North Koreans haven't proved they have a sufficiently accurate enough missile able to deliver a nuclear payload yet and are between 10 and 30 years away from being at that level.

It's all posturing done more to increase Kim Jong Il's stature domestically than to seriously threaten the West.

And besides NK is on Chinese turf and is predominately their problem.

In the last Korean war the Chinese and Soviet backed NK gave the South Korean and UN forces a thorough whooping on a couple of occasions and almost took the whole country.

Though NK can't rely on military support from soviet countries anymore I can't imagine the Chinese being too chuffed if America were to invade NK and rock up on their border in serious numbers.

In the last war the Chinese joined in as they felt they were being encircled by US forces stationed around Asia after WW2.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom! You too, Peripatet and others. You took the words right out of my mouth.

Peace!

Billy

[BluntRM]

The key to balancing power is that any upset provides an opportunity to realign. Because really, once the sovereignty of Korea is in play, the entire region opens up, politically, militarily; there's room to re-negotiate security arrangements, pivot against unfavorable conditions--- Any army entangled on the Korean Peninsula will lose assets outside of that sphere to competing nations. Korea has no strategic value that is worth the engagement.

[BillyTheMountain]

No oil??!

[IUni]

Great that you mention this.

Let's not wait for the government to take action, for we, as a community, can take the initiative. Unicyclists, mount up!

I nominate Adam Kover as our general, as he clearly has experience in mounted warfare.

All we need now is to each purchase a Torker 09, and we'll be set for battle. With the new Torker 09 at hand, we will be unstoppable, and the tyranny will be destroyed once and for all.


It is SO hard to fire an assault rifle or RPG from a muni. I suggest we re-think the unicycle pincer movement before we launch!

[MrBoogiejuice]

No oil??!

Have you ever watched Rob Newman's A History of Oil?

[BillyTheMountain]

Have you ever watched Rob Newman's A History of Oil? (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5267640865741878159)

excellent!

[peleschramm]

It is SO hard to fire an assault rifle or RPG from a muni. I suggest we re-think the unicycle pincer movement before we launch!

It's ok man, we've got the Torker 09. Haven't you heard that it's a tank?

[critter]

China stills shares some reverence for the "Communist supreme leader " form of government.

Basically, if China wanted to help the South take over the North,

In that case my idea sucks. It requires China and South Korea to be on the same page about what a post war government would look like. To bad really, a united Korea would be in the best interest of the Koreans.

It's a good idea. North Korea sucks.
China could be the best influence. They should do something...anything.
I'll be surprised if China lifts it's ''pinky'' finger.

[Hazmat]

Well, this is the latest news (http://www.smh.com.au/world/n-korea-says-its-army-will-stand-up-to-un-sanctions-20090530-br1u.html) that Australian media has posted. Which i find very scary for those who live in South Korea or Japan. :eek:

[brendan]

North Korea sucks.

That kind of attitude really gets the world nowhere.

You do realise north korea has 1.1 million soldiers? That's more than the americans and south koreans will ever be able to deploy. They are fighting in their own terrain, in very specialised conditions where tanks wont really work. Crossing the DMZ in the first place would probably be very hard for badly trained US troops that are used to field/desert/urban combat. (and look how well they managed at the their last urban ops...)

Obama is too clever to launch a full offensive against them. It would probably be popular in the US, but would reduce his international fame to bush status in about 4 seconds. He will only go with a UN backed invasion with south korea and china's approval. This means North korea will have to strike first before they can touch their soil. And hell, what do the americans have to gain from south korea being reunited to north korea? It's gonna cost them a fortune, and they'll have nothing but rubble to show for it.

The Chinese are probably best suited to attack, but being so close to a nuclear weilding nation is kindof dangerous when attacking, would cost them immense amounts of cash, and would do only harm to their image if they did not then surrender the north to the south. So theres very little in it for them. And its not as if the north koreans will bomb china first, they hate the americans and south more.

Then there is the whole problem that if southkorea goes to war (which it would most certainly take part in if it happened - it has the most to gain...) it could get counter attacked very badly via underground tunnels through the DMZ. There are rumoured to be dozens of them, only 4 have been found. Vietcongs used north korean engineers to help them build tunnels and they worked extremely well.

The North also has alot of tanks, more than the US will ever be able to deploy, china could rival it, has submarines which could heavily damage heavy warships and enough fighter jets to scare many nations. They are nowhere near as unequiped as Iraq.

If called, we will gladly go in and make the place safe for freedom and democracy.


Yeah right, as long as they have oil/money to show for it. Which... they don't. In fact what do they have? Starving villagers and loads of russian/chinese weapons. Not really anything worth the money considering the enconomical climax. Get over yourself. You call yourself a free nation and give dictators weapons.... and then attack them... you guys are mighty confusing.

[uninorcal]

and we did so well in korea last time.

lol

[Rezinha]

We're all dead, guys.

[feel the light]

Lot's of good points made. It seems to be the consensus that China has the ball. I agree, the UN could at best play a supportive role, and no sane USA prez can roll the war dice without China.

In this way, we have made a lot of progress in international relations since the Korean War of the 50's. In those days of anti communist cold war, it was a different world entirely.

Now the world love-fears China for it's economic power. Mao and the "serious communist doctrine", are gone. Money talks and then the world walks.

Siege. Ancient tech, super popular because it works so well and you don't have to kill people with your sword. Super creepy when imposed on NK because people are really starving there.

My current conclusion is that the ball is sorta in China's hands. They could starve the "Kim is God" cult into collapse with a trade barricade. Gruesome though. Starvation is terrible, and there is every reason to believe that the NK nut job cult that runs that prison will be as willing to starve to death NK's in the future, as it has in the past.

Why does the USA maintain 80,000 troops in SK for 50 years? Add up the $ and you can see why the USA is going broke. Fight or leave the field. A 50 + year standoff paid for by the USA taxpayer for what ?:confused:

The USA should leave Korea. Fat chance of that. I and others elected the Harvard Nigger so he would end torture cover ups, and get us out of the Cheny Inc. money shovel in Iraq. My call now, is the only way we get out of Iraq is by going broke. It's a growing military machine , the tax sucking Cheny Inc. cancer with a new face. I had hopes for Obama. I still do. I need hope.

I don't understand the math. Obama is way sharper and better educated than me . This is what makes me fear him being a beholden pawn. War, health care, prisons, insurance, police and bankers. All run for profit by mega corporations "to big to fail" .

[GILD]

You do realise north korea has 1.1 million soldiers?

To quote Bill Hicks, as I'm wont to do:

"People say "Iraq had the fourth largest army in the world". Yeah, maybe, but you know what, after the first 3 largest armies, there's a REAL big . drop-off. The Hare Krishnas are the 5th largest army in the world, and they've already got all our airports."