The Atkins Diet [Archive] - Unicyclist Community

uni57

2009-05-20, 11:22 PM

I'm not hugely overweight, but I am definitely overweight, so I'm going to try the Atkins Diet for a while. I'll decide later whether I want to stick with it. It looks like a great way, when combined with physical activity, to quickly lose excess pounds.

I'm surprised there's really no mention of Atkins here, since we talk about just about every imaginable topic (including some topics that are so hard to imagine that only Billy can think of them). I guess there aren't a lot of overweight unicyclists? Or maybe people feel inhibited talking about weight issues on a forum populated with skinny, athletic people?

Has anyone had any experience with Atkins? Success? Failure? Did you stick with it? Did you feel good on it? Did your energy level increase when you cut out all the processed foods? [edit: and what did you eat?]

Since I've done my fair share of bashing the vegetarians, I invite criticism from all!

While I haven't yet researched enough to become convinced of the long-term benefits of Atkins, I do however advocate a high-fat diet, staying away from polyunsaturated vegetable oils and of course trans fat. I eat plenty of butter, eggs, bacon, cheese, and cream. I obviously overindulge in relation to my activity level, but I don't believe fat makes you fat and I don't believe that fat is unhealthy. By the way, my cholesterol level is ridiculously low, in spite of my high-fat diet (I would actually love to find a way to raise my cholesterol level).

UniKid2

2009-05-20, 11:27 PM

The only Atkins I know is Ryan..

Rezinha

2009-05-21, 01:17 AM

I think that all those diets are bullshit.
You don't need to stop eating carbs or to stop eating chocolates or stop eating whatever you like.
Everybody knows what makes us fat: the excess of calories.
In order to lose weight, you should eat less calories than the ones you burn.
So, actually, you can eat carbs and all that crap, just don't eat A LOT. Eat more vegetables and fruits, cause they have fibers and will keep you satisfied, and then you can eat junkie food like chocolate or ice cream or whatever because then you will eat much less of these foods because you are already satisfied.
I don't think Atkins diet is the best one. I know it works, but don't go too 'extreme' on that... Because then you can get some disfunctions on your body and, I don't only mean cholesterol but your liver and your kidneys will suffer! As well as your brain.

So, just eat healthy food (salads, vegetables, fruits, etc) and then you can eat junkie food too (chocolate, ice cream, french fries). And EXERCISE!
;)

Edit: I don't know if I made myself clear but what I wanted to say is that you NEED carbs, you NEED proteins and you NEED fat in order to be healthy. Don't stop eating ANY of these groups, because your body will suffer. You have just to learn how to balance the amount of carbs/proteins/fats you eat.

Doug

2009-05-21, 02:59 AM

I ferment and consume Kefir. Only home fermenting will produce Kefir with a high variety and population of the healthy probiotics. Store bought probiotics are weak by comparison. There's a lot of info on the web about Atkins, both pro and con. Be careful, but I think you are on the right track.

peleschramm

2009-05-21, 05:00 AM

The Atkins diet kinda sucks in that while you will lose weight fast, it is not something that can really be done long term, and it's likely that you will just end up eating the same way and gaining back all that you lost. Really, it's hard to change the way you eat in such a dramatic manner. Carbs aren't bad, they are a good source of energy, and you will not feel energized when doing physical activity if you eliminate them. Cutting down on fat calories is a bit more effective.

But really, the best way to lose weight is just exercise. Better to not change the way you eat too much, and just use up all that you eat.

Please note that while I do not have much experience in the matter, my mother is quite the expert in nutrition (she's a personal trainer), and I'm just saying what I've learned from what she has said on the topic.

harper

2009-05-21, 05:00 AM

I tried eating Atkins and he didn't taste very good.

uni57

2009-05-21, 09:33 AM

Atkins does not eliminate carbs. In the first most restrictive phase, which lasts a minimum of two weeks, you must restrict your carbs to 20 grams per day (just 0.7 ounces). But this tiny amount still allows for eating a salad and a cup of cooked vegetables every day. That's more vegetables than I normally eat! Then you gradually increase your carb intake, adding back foods that were eliminated in the first phase until you are eating a balanced, though high-fat, diet. They emphasize traditional fats and unprocessed foods, avoiding refined sugar and bleached white flour and all the yummy products made with it.

So far, I'm only committed to using Atkins as a quick fix. Summer is approaching and although I've lost 15 pounds just through increased activity (hiking and canoeing), I haven't reached my goal yet. A friend is doing Atkins and he's lost 30 pounds, so I looked into the diet, excuse me, the Atkins Nutritional Approach (ANA). It's not as bad as I thought it would be. I think they've tweaked it over the years. Or maybe I just never understood the details in the first place.

I'm not usually a person that looks for the quick fix or the easy solution. I don't mind doing the hard work. But this time, I want the quick (but not easy) fix. They say -- and my friend confirms -- that the pounds melt off (beyond the initial water loss) and you are full of energy. I have no problem eating a high-fat diet, although eating too much protein concerns me a little. A high-fat diet that says eat vegetables but don't eat processed, refined junk seems compatible with my thinking.

My long-term goal is to build muscle mass and increase my activity level so that I can eat whatever I want. At least in terms of not gaining weight. Atkins is right, of course, about avoiding refined junk food and excess empty carbs. So eventually, I'll just pick and choose my poisons and how often I eat them. For now, I'm sticking with the diet. To me, it's a technique. A tool. I doubt it will become a life-long way of eating. A die-hard Atkins person would tell me that I'll just regain all the weight I've lost if I go off the diet, but I have a plan to avoid that, as I said in the beginning of this paragraph.

Well, that's all for now. Thanks for reading. I'm at the end of day two of Atkins. My metabolism should be switching from glucose-burning mode to fat-burning mode soon. We'll see if the pounds really do melt off like they say...

munirocks

2009-05-21, 10:01 AM

Here's another Atkins, pretty tasty, actually. But I couldn't imagine staying on an Atkins only diet for more than a few hours.
YouTube - Chet Atkins - Mr.Bojangles

mscalisi

2009-05-21, 09:25 PM

Where Atkins succeeds is in getting people off highly refined carbs, especially sugar. Sugar is addictive leading to consumption of more sugar, yet gives no satisfaction, only empty calories.

It also has people eating foods that are highly satisfying (foods high in fat and protein).

What's nice about protein is that it is highly satisfying AND has a high thermal effect. What this means is that about 30% of the calories consumed in the form of protein are spent processing the protein.

Where it fails is in having people eat a high fat diet. Fat, while satisfying, is very high in calories, and has a low thermal effect (our bodies are VERY efficient in converting fat to....fat. We only burn about 3% in the process)

Also, eating a diet very low in carbohydrates will result in having a lowered amount of energy. Not good for us athletic types!

What has worked for me in the past, is lots of whole foods, limited sugars, limited fats, and moderate amounts carbohydrates from unrefined foods and moderate amounts of protein.

Actually, the ultimate tool of success for me has been my diet & exercise diary. Measure everything and write it down.

When everything that moves past your lips has to be quantified and documented, its simple to see where your diet gets blown.

Read EVERY label, and use measuring cups to accurately measure serving sizes. A fun game is "guess the calories" in a food. Especially with restaurant food. Often you'll guess that something is 500 calories when its really 1200. Avoid restaurants that don't give nutritional information.

Keeping a diary of calories burned vs calories consumed, will show you exactly which way your weight is moving and why.

It really does simply boil down to calories in/calories out.

Track this and eat only foods that are satisfying and you will lose weight.

Atkins does not eliminate carbs. In the first most restrictive phase, which lasts a minimum of two weeks, you must restrict your carbs to 20 grams per day (just 0.7 ounces). But this tiny amount still allows for eating a salad and a cup of cooked vegetables every day. That's more vegetables than I normally eat! Then you gradually increase your carb intake, adding back foods that were eliminated in the first phase until you are eating a balanced, though high-fat, diet. They emphasize traditional fats and unprocessed foods, avoiding refined sugar and bleached white flour and all the yummy products made with it.

So far, I'm only committed to using Atkins as a quick fix. Summer is approaching and although I've lost 15 pounds just through increased activity (hiking and canoeing), I haven't reached my goal yet. A friend is doing Atkins and he's lost 30 pounds, so I looked into the diet, excuse me, the Atkins Nutritional Approach (ANA). It's not as bad as I thought it would be. I think they've tweaked it over the years. Or maybe I just never understood the details in the first place.

I'm not usually a person that looks for the quick fix or the easy solution. I don't mind doing the hard work. But this time, I want the quick (but not easy) fix. They say -- and my friend confirms -- that the pounds melt off (beyond the initial water loss) and you are full of energy. I have no problem eating a high-fat diet, although eating too much protein concerns me a little. A high-fat diet that says eat vegetables but don't eat processed, refined junk seems compatible with my thinking.

My long-term goal is to build muscle mass and increase my activity level so that I can eat whatever I want. At least in terms of not gaining weight. Atkins is right, of course, about avoiding refined junk food and excess empty carbs. So eventually, I'll just pick and choose my poisons and how often I eat them. For now, I'm sticking with the diet. To me, it's a technique. A tool. I doubt it will become a life-long way of eating. A die-hard Atkins person would tell me that I'll just regain all the weight I've lost if I go off the diet, but I have a plan to avoid that, as I said in the beginning of this paragraph.

Well, that's all for now. Thanks for reading. I'm at the end of day two of Atkins. My metabolism should be switching from glucose-burning mode to fat-burning mode soon. We'll see if the pounds really do melt off like they say...

MuniAddict

2009-05-21, 10:27 PM

Try the Phelps diet! This guy (http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1827680) ate his famous 12,000 calorie breakfast in FIVE minutes! On a humorous note, he quickly suffered a massive coronary and died minutes later! :p

But serioulsly folks:

Good diet and EXERCISE! That's how to lose weight and get FIT. Simple fact. Forget all the diet books that make the authors rich, and get off your butt and lose weight the old fashioned way! :)

mattsmith

2009-05-21, 10:43 PM

My mother did the Atkins thing when it first came out. She wasn't properly overweight, but at ~50 years old she was developing a bit of fat around the belly that she couldn't shift and thought Atkins might help, which it did. She lasted about 3 weeks on it which was enough time for it to start to take effect, and enough time for her to realise that it was totally unpractical for her; The reason being that she couldn't eat enough. Once she hit the stage of burning through nothing but fat she needed to consume food *constantly* or risk passing out. Scoffing chops all day just wasn't an option for her given that she had a total of 35 minutes break in a 10 hour work day. There were some other side effects, such as terrible breath and a bit of an odour following her around; this went completely without comment since everyone was being supportive - Don't be surprised if you find people giving you a little extra space.
The lesson I learned from this is that Atkins is effective but strictly a short-term solution.

A friend of mine is currently on a variation of the Kellogs diet, he's mostly eating Bran Flakes (side effects include sitting down for long periods with a newspaper and feeling like you're eating cardboard) and it seems to be working for him - he topped out at around 95kg recently. He was looking healthy at about 75-80kg when we met 10 years ago. He's only been on it for a fortnight and he's already looking a lot slimmer - which could be Kellogs and it could be that he's cut out the alcohol!

And on a more comedic note, I know a particularly dimwitted lady who was really perplexed by the lack of effect that the Atkins diet was having on her. After a couple of weeks she had seen no change whatsoever. The reason: She thought nothing but meat included sausage sandwiches! :D

mattsmith

2009-05-21, 11:04 PM

Good diet and EXERCISE! That's how to lose weight and get FIT. Simple fact. Forget all the diet books that make the authors rich, and get off your butt and lose weight the old fashioned way! :)

I agree with your sentiment MuniAddict, and while I think that good diet and exercise is always better than binge dieting, and that staying fit never did anyone any harm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx); I do disagree with the "Simple Fact" part of this. I know a few people who are built fat and no amount of exercise and dieting will change them, one close friend in particular is terrifically active but his shape is terrible. He's fit but fat. It's easy to forget when you see a hambeast waddling around feeding her butterbaby with a supersize happy meal that a lot of physique really does boil down to genetics. My parents were scolded by a nurse for putting my brother and I onto solid foods too soon as babies and she was shot down by a doctor with this wonderful phrase: "Greyhounds do not give birth to elephants." My experience is that the opposite is equally true.

johnfoss

2009-05-22, 02:17 AM

Simplest diet out there:

Eat exactly the same crap you've been eating, but less of it. A.k.a. portion control. I know someone who has lost about 100 pounds just by doing that! Of course if you eat better crap and add exercise you'll do even better...

feel the light

2009-05-22, 06:13 AM

I'm 190 now. I don't know if I am bragging, but I am not lying.

The veg diet totally works, if you are an experimental nut. It was in 1994, I ate all the vegetables I wanted. No oil. A choice of fish or beans to add in the needed protein. Maybe 1000 to 1300 calories/day.

I am not recommending crash diets. So I guess I am bragging LOL.:)

Seriously, not lying and with nothing to sell, I will tell you how I dropped weight.

1 Buy a lot of different vegetables, and almost nothing else. Fruit is high in sugar(calories), so fruit is out.

2 You can only eat only so much beans or fish. This must be measured to a calorie limit.

3 Eat all of the low calorie vegetables you want. Potatoes or high calorie vegetables must be counted separately. But in general, you can stuff yourself with most kinds of vegetables, and still easily stay under the daily calorie limit.

I was stupid to drop to 123. I lost a lot of muscle and honestly I think I just got into being a nut. You know, when you start doing something and get excited that it might be a record for your life.

The "stuff yourself full of veggies", no oil , and a measured amount of protein diet, does work. The no oil, no sugar, extremely low calorie aspect is what drives the weight loss. A belly full of veggies is a full belly and with adequate protein is the best weight loss diet I have tried.

The "stuff yourself full of veggies" diet is easier to stick to then some diets, because there is a lot of different veggies to try. Money saved on some fatter foods must be spent on a big pile of varied veggies, to make this diet work. It is kinda fun to eat all those different foods and you really get to stuff yourself. It's not about starvation so much, more about getting used to eating large volumes of different vegetables. Oddly, under the "stuff yourself with veggies diet", you must get used to eating more, not less, by volume.You would eat twice as much (volume) while consuming 1/4 the calories of a fast food meal that would produce the same satiation of hunger.

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-22, 03:01 PM

I tried eating Atkins and he didn't taste very good.

:eek:

I ferment and consume Kefir. Only home fermenting will produce Kefir with a high variety and population of the healthy probiotics. Store bought probiotics are weak by comparison. There's a lot of info on the web about Atkins, both pro and con. Be careful, but I think you are on the right track.

Probiotics cause cancer, don't they?

Antibiotics are the antidote for probiotic overdose.

MuniAddict

2009-05-22, 04:09 PM

I still believe the simplest approach is best. If you take in more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. A lot of people think that just lifting weights will help them shed fat and extra pounds, they are wrong. It will build muscle, but you need to maintain your target heart rate for at least 30 minutes every day, via a good cardio workout, and MUni is one of the absolute best and effective ways to do that.

There really are no shortcuts, unless you consider stomach stapling, liposuction or other extreme methods a shortcut. Granted, there are many people who have a very hard time losing weight, and even if they do they often gain back that weight and sometimes more.

But in today's world of instant gratification, people don't have the patience and will to see things through because they want to see results yesterday. Not gonna happen, but they just keep hoping for some magic bullet. Just eat less, and exercise more. Unless you have a medical issue, it usually never fails.

Gadge

2009-05-22, 05:17 PM

uni57

2009-05-22, 09:57 PM

^^^ Terry, I'm already doing that (minus the MUni). But summer's coming, I have a deadline, and I want to pick up the pace. I eat a high-fat, high-protein diet anyway. The later phases of Atkins, which I probably won't bother with, do emphasize eating plenty of vegetables. If I ate the Atkins way, I would probably eat a more balanced and better diet than I previously have. But a life without bread and pastries and pasta and pizza has no joy. Eventually I will go back to eating all that "healthy" stuff that Atkins cuts out. Not for nutritional reasons, but just for enjoyment.

For once, I want the quick fix. Simultaneously, I want to build muscle mass which will increase my metabolism. These added pounds of muscle will burn additional calories every day, just by existing. That, plus increasing my activity level until it becomes a lifestyle change, should prevent me from regaining all the weight I've lost when I go off the diet and resume eating junk food.

As I said earlier, I see Atkins as a tool. A technique. A way to turbo-charge the results I'm already getting. My current plan is not to use it for more than a month or so. Does that sound reasonable and safe? What could be the harm? Clearly I think what I'm doing is not an obviously bad idea. And that it's not a substitute for making lifestyle changes. But I hope it's also clear that I remain a bit skeptical about what I'm doing. So I do appreciate all the comments. Keep them coming! I'm listening. Unlike the religious threads (and those that approach it, like the vegetarian threads), my opinion can be changed. Your voice can make a difference!

maestro8

2009-05-22, 11:12 PM

I've been told one way to speed weight loss is to avoid heavy meals near bed time... actually, to avoid heavy meals altogether. We don't burn much energy when we sleep, so most carbs / fat eaten before bed time gets converted into fat. Not good for weight loss!

I've modified my diet to avoid all carbs at dinner, and to eat my biggest meal at lunch time. I'm working against my learned habit to eat until I'm stuffed, and slow down when I eat, so I can stop as I begin to feel full. I'm not totally religious about my diet, though, so I haven't seen the full results yet. I'm just a month in right now.

I still believe the simplest approach is best. If you take in more calories than you burn, you will gain weight.

Just curious, Terry, have you ever had to lose more than 20 lbs? I don't get the impression that you've ever needed to diet... especially from reading your post here.

Some people need to follow specific eating and exercise regimens in order to lose weight, as not everyone has the same metabolism, nor does everyone's body process the same foods in the same manner.

What do you expect to accomplish by giving the "eat less, work more" advice to someone who's already tried that?

P.S. Can someone quote me so Terry actually sees my post? I'm pretty sure I'm on his ignore list.

Peripatet

2009-05-23, 12:51 AM

Some people need to follow specific eating and exercise regimens in order to lose weight, as not everyone has the same metabolism, nor does everyone's body process the same foods in the same manner.

What do you expect to accomplish by giving the "eat less, work more" advice to someone who's already tried that?

P.S. Can someone quote me so Terry actually sees my post? I'm pretty sure I'm on his ignore list.

It's basic Physics, man. You can't get something (i.e. ATP, energy) for nothing (i.e. no food intake or completing the respiration process). If you keep pushing yourself on, your body will hit up its food reserves to meet your energy demands. As you burn up those reserves, you lose weight.

Are there good diets that work with a particular person's body type and metabolism to catalyze the weight loss? Absolutely.

But saying that decreasing energy intake while increasing energy demand will not make you lose weight is crap.

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-23, 01:22 AM

I've been told one way to speed weight loss is to avoid heavy meals near bed time... actually, to avoid heavy meals altogether. We don't burn much energy when we sleep, so most carbs / fat eaten before bed time gets converted into fat. Not good for weight loss!

I've modified my diet to avoid all carbs at dinner, and to eat my biggest meal at lunch time. I'm working against my learned habit to eat until I'm stuffed, and slow down when I eat, so I can stop as I begin to feel full. I'm not totally religious about my diet, though, so I haven't seen the full results yet. I'm just a month in right now.

Just curious, Terry, have you ever had to lose more than 20 lbs? I don't get the impression that you've ever needed to diet... especially from reading your post here.

Some people need to follow specific eating and exercise regimens in order to lose weight, as not everyone has the same metabolism, nor does everyone's body process the same foods in the same manner.

What do you expect to accomplish by giving the "eat less, work more" advice to someone who's already tried that?

P.S. Can someone quote me so Terry actually sees my post? I'm pretty sure I'm on his ignore list.

THere.

Now Terry can see which basic scientific principles you misunderstand and help you.

Why would YOU be on his ignore list?

Billy

uni57

2009-05-23, 01:45 AM

It's basic Physics, man.No, it's biochemistry. They overlap, but they aren't the same. As you mentioned, metabolism plays a part. If you starve yourself, your body starts slowing down, holding onto its energy reserves. And there are other factors, like the fact that it requires more energy to digest protein than it does to digest carbohydrates.

Are there good diets that work with a particular person's body type and metabolism to catalyze the weight loss? Absolutely.

But saying that decreasing energy intake while increasing energy demand will not make you lose weight is crap.Correct. And not so correct. I have an overweight friend whose metabolism seems to have really slowed down. He keeps trying to lose weight and has a very hard time. He described to me how little he eats (which I believe he is accurately reporting). He eats like a bird. He is starving himself but it's not working. How can that be explained? He's not a couch potato. He's not extremely active in an athletic sense, but he leads a busy life, which includes bike riding and being a volunteer EMT.

I've been told one way to speed weight loss is to avoid heavy meals near bed time... actually, to avoid heavy meals altogether. Hi, Jason. I'm glad you are here. Excellent point. I forgot about that one. I'll have to analyze my eating behavior more closely...

...eat my biggest meal at lunch time ... [not] eat until I'm stuffed ... and slow down when I eat, so I can stop as I begin to feel full. More good points. I've read somewhere that the feeling of satiety is slow to arrive. If you eat fast, you can overshoot the mark.

Just curious, Terry, have you ever had to lose more than 20 lbs? I don't get the impression that you've ever needed to diet... especially from reading your post here.

...

What do you expect to accomplish by giving the "eat less, work more" advice to someone who's already tried that?I'm okay with Terry's input. But now that I think about it, yeah, he's an active guy. He can probably eat anything he wants and not ever have to deal with a weight problem. He's right in a sense (as is Gadge). If I were to become super-active, how could I not burn off all my excess fat? As long as I didn't start eating more due to the increased activity. It's also hard to become very active when you previously were not. Seriously overweight people don't possess sufficient fitness levels to endure vigorous or prolonged exercise. I hike and canoe and sometimes inline skate and even unicycle on occasion. I can do that stuff every day, but I don't have the motivation or willpower to get out there every day, in spite of it being fun. I have a lot going on. Other demands that involve chair time. I'm just not driven to be daily active. There's resistance. Just as Terry's spirit would revolt if he were forced to lead a sedentary life. I'm fighting a lifestyle inertia of sorts.

I guess I'm saying that there's truth to Terry's and Gadge's remarks. But it's very hard. And for some, they have a metabolic disadvantage. And like I said, you can exercise like crazy and develop a ravenous appetite as a response. Should you ignore the hunger pangs? If you respond to your increased appetite a bit too enthusiastically, you can actually gain (fat) weight. Another metabolism complication in action. Also, fat and protein provide satiety longer than carbs. You just won't feel hungry for a longer time. And on Atkins ketogenic diet, appetite seems to be suppressed, thus reducing your caloric intake. Both are metabolic advantages. Why make it harder than it has to be?

Atkins requires exercise. They are adamant about it. I've already lost 15 pounds -- the Terry way -- by being more active and watching portion sizes (with no specific "diet"). Now I'm trying to get turbo-charged.

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-23, 01:50 AM

Dave,

OK when you MUST be in the chair, be in the chair. I know all about that.

But when you don't have to be in the chair and you need some motivation to exercise, you can also use caffeine without any concerns. Coffee, tea, JOLT, stay away from methamphetamine or cocaine.

r u doing the Unithon?

Billy

uni57

2009-05-23, 02:16 AM

But when you don't have to be in the chair and you need some motivation to exercise, you can also use caffeine without any concerns. Coffee, tea, JOLT, stay away from methamphetamine or cocaine.I'm in the chair right now. I'd like to be in the kitchen right now making homemade biscuits and drenching them in butter. But Dr. Atkins says I can't. I can eat all the butter I want but I have nothing to put it on. I went caffeine-free three or four years ago. Not going to switch back. And I kicked my cocaine habit once. I'm not going down that path again either. Okay, I never did cocaine.

r u doing the Unithon?Don't tell Raphael, but I'm not sure. I was planning to go this year, but now I'm not sure.

MuniAddict

2009-05-23, 02:19 AM

I'm okay with Terry's input. But now that I think about it, yeah, he's an active guy. He can probably eat anything he wants and not ever have to deal with a weight problem.

Actually, before I started riding three plus years ago, I was almost 170-175 lbs, and at 5'11' I had almost a 35" waist. Yes, that's not obese or extreme, but for me I'd never been that heavy before becoming a piano tuner, which meant that I was mostly sitting a lot. The pounds started creeping up little by little until my clothes didn't fit anymore and I was "suddenly" about 25 lbs heavier at 175, and it *wasn't* muscle!

So I started riding and trained HARD almost every day, literally sweating my you-know-what off and my lungs needed a full 1/2 year to stop burning after only a few-what are now easy-miles. Little by little I started feeling better, stronger, and the pounds and inches started coming off until I leveled out at my current 142 lbs and a 29-30" waist. This took at least a full year. As to the "eat anything" part, well in a way that's true...now that I ride every day and burn it off, so I can literally have my cake and eat it too!

It was an uphill battle in the true sense but if I'm anything, I'm determined once I make up my mind to see it through and reach my goal. But it doesn't stop just because you reach it. You have to do it for life, and it becomes a way of life. I think the hardest part about getting in to shape and shedding the pounds is to STICK with it and not quit!

Once your body adapts it becomes much easier and you even look forward to the exercise. It's that "adapting" part that can take some time, but it's so worth it! MUni and unicycling in general has changed my life in so many positive ways, and I will never stop..or at least go on as long as I can. :p

And btw, I did clearly state in my earlier post, that there are some people who may have medical issues; and/or other problems that could make it much harder if not impossible to attain the same results as the average person. I get that. :)

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-23, 02:24 AM

I'm in the chair right now. I'd like to be in the kitchen right now making homemade biscuits and drenching them in butter. But Dr. Atkins says I can't. I can eat all the butter I want but I have nothing to put it on. I went caffeine-free three or four years ago. Not going to switch back. And I kicked my cocaine habit once. I'm not going down that path again either. Okay, I never did cocaine.

Don't tell Raphael, but I'm not sure. I was planning to go this year, but now I'm not sure.

They always leave me in the dust. I'm hoping there's someone who might want to take it casual for the first 10 miles or the last 10 miles.

Recent research indicates caffeine is a performance enhancing drug with no bad effects, and measurable improved performance among athletes, whenever they actually use it (placebo had not effect--good science.

Billy

Peripatet

2009-05-23, 02:46 AM

If you starve yourself, your body starts slowing down, holding onto its energy reserves.

Agreed. You've explained why teenage girls who "starve" themselves to lose weight never really drop the pounds they want. This is why you need to kick up your activity level, if you go that route. It forces the body to use those reserves, vice conserve.

Empirical evidence: can be gathered every other week at SERE School. Students of all adult ages (17-40+), activity levels, and body types are thrown out in the woods with no food. The typical student has little more than one cup of rabbit stew in the 6 days of the course. It is starvation, pure and simple. BUT the studs are kept on the move, expending a hell of a lot of energy. "Someone I know" did the course and lost 6 pounds in as many days; he was 6'2" and 160 to start with. A 5'5" male, 220 Lbs lost 15 lbs in the same amount of time. Typical results fall inside this range.

Wanna lose weight?
1. Stop eating like a fatbody. (i.e. consume small meals, healthy foods)
2. Put the TV remote down and go workout.

How much you commit to steps 1 and 2 will dictate rate of weight loss.
Every God's Gift to movie stars fad diet *I've* seen seems to have these elements, they just try to nuance them, mask them, or ease you into them.

uni57

2009-05-23, 02:52 AM

Peripatet

2009-05-23, 02:54 AM

Recent research indicates caffeine is a performance enhancing drug with no bad effects, and measurable improved performance among athletes, whenever they actually use it (placebo had not effect--good science.

Billy

For once, I agree with you. I read a study last month about triathletes using Diet Coke to pep them up during races, to great effect. It seems most of the bad juju we were told about caffeine was actually caused by the other crap in the caffeinated beverage (like 800g of sugar. . .).

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-23, 02:56 AM

actually, you should think of new permanent lifestyle, not diet.

uni57

2009-05-23, 03:22 AM

Wanna lose weight?
1. Stop eating like a fatbody. (i.e. consume small meals, healthy foods)Smaller portions. Yes. "Healthy" foods? Maybe. Whenever I hear someone say they are going to start "eating healthy", it raises a red flag with me. If you buy into the upside-down USDA Food Pyramid and the lipid hypothesis (if so, you should read The Oiling of America (http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/oiling.html)), then you are going to avoid fat and replace healthy fats with heat-labile (polyunsaturated), high-Omega-6 vegetable oils. Eating healthy means different things to different people. You have to get it right.

2. Put the TV remote down and go workout.I haven't owned or watched a TV in about 7 or 8 years.

How much you commit to steps 1 and 2 will dictate rate of weight loss.Eat the wrong kinds of foods and your energy level drops. You are tired all the time. You can't exercise much. Or maybe you have food allergies that are slowing you down. Or you have sleep problems. Forget about exercising; you can barely make it through the day. While part of me agrees with you (and Terry and Gadge), the other part of me says it's not that simple. You are basically indicting all overweight people as being lazy and weak-willed. I don't think they are.

Some people are chronically dehydrated. They can mistake thirst for hunger. Also, people can be overfed and malnourished. I once made a concerted effort to eat more nutrient-dense foods. Guess what happened? My appetite diminished. My body got everything it needed, so it didn't crave more. But feed the body crap and it will get a little of the nutrients it needs, so it says (through the hunger signal), feed me more! I need more of that crap! The unhealthy foods (like you say) make it difficult. There's a lot of government- and industry-supplied misinformation about what "healthy food" actually is. I think those unhealthy foods are excess empty carbohydrates. Enter Dr. Atkins. Traditional fats. Protein. Vegetables. Limited high-sugar fruits. Exercise. And the absolute avoidance of refined sugars and flours and all the tasty processed foods made out of them. Controlling the insulin response.

Eat healthy and exercise basically describes the Atkins diet (again, unless you buy into the low-fat propaganda). It's far from the ideal diet, but it's also far better than the Standard American Diet.

MuniAddict

2009-05-23, 03:39 AM

Terry, thanks for posting your story. It's inspirational. But like we both said (oops), metabolism and other factors can make it even more difficult.

Now that I'm understanding you better (and not partially dismissing your ideas because I somehow figured that you never had a weight problem to deal with in your entire skinny, super-fit life), do you think I'm denying myself the opportunity to transition into a more active lifestyle? Meaning, by taking the easy route, a weight-loss diet, rather than purely exercising the fat off, do you think I'm delaying or jeopardizing developing the habit of an active lifestyle?

I am exercising. Not enough. But I'm improving. And the clock is ticking. Because I'm probably going to drop the diet after I lose the weight. Most people who do that regain everything they've lost. I'll need an increased metabolism and activity level in order to keep the pounds from returning. In other words, I have to develop an active lifestyle. I have to develop additional muscle mass in order to increase my metabolic rate. I have to develop a fitness level such that I can engage in a meaningful amount of sustained exercise. Otherwise, the pounds will return. My plan is to slowly develop an active lifestyle while simultaneously losing weight on Atkins. It's faster, plus the less overweight you are, the easier it is to be active. I'm still hoping someone will comment on my overall plan. What do you think? Are you against Atkins (remember I already happily eat a high-fat diet)? To me it seems okay to use both an eating technique and physical activity to lose weight.Thanks for your post I appreciate the meaningful and positive dialog. I don't know enough about the Atkins diet-or any other-to comment on it. I basically eat like I always have, some good some not so healthy, but with the 6-7 day MUni/coker rides, it's the way I pay the piper. There was one week when I didn't ride due to being sick, and I GAINED back several pounds! So if I want to stay at the weight and fitness level I'm at, I have to keep doing what I do to burn off excess calories, and keep my metabolism up. But luckily, I love it and look forward to riding ever day!

But I think you're on the right track and you clearly are putting forth good ideas. You're only 44, so you can accomplish your goals, I know you can. Just don't try too much at once; that's what some people do and they end up frustrated and quit. Take things easy and build up your routine slowly. The hare and the turtle thing. You'll be successful, I know it! :)

uni57

2009-05-23, 03:46 AM

actually, you should think of new permanent lifestyle, not diet.Sometimes I feel like I'm repeating myself too much in this thread. But... I've talked extensively about my plan to build a new lifestyle. So yes, I couldn't agree with you more. It's like you took the words right out of my mouth. Unless you are saying scrap the diet and just be more active.

Also, I hate the word "diet". To me, it implies fad diet, or lack of knowledge of nutrition, plus setting yourself up for failure. I also don't like how the meaning has been twisted. Before Atkins, I ate a high-fat diet. I wasn't "on" a "diet". Diet simply means what you eat. Part of the diet of monkeys is bananas. The monkeys are not "on" a diet (as in weight-loss diet), they have a diet. We look at what they eat and call that their diet.

I'd rather say that I've decided to mediate the insulin response by reducing or eliminating sugars and starches that easily convert to glucose in order to control the insulin-related utilization and storage mechanism of excess glucose. Eliminating insulin spikes and dips will avoid the false feeling of hunger. The message of insulin? Store what you can as glycogen, then store the rest as fat. I'm also curbing my appetite, which will lower my daily caloric intake, by self-inducing a state of ketosis, which may or may not also confer a stored-fat-burning advantage. Lastly, I'm becoming more active.

That sounds better than picking out the latest fad diet book because it was written by a celebrity or because the book has a pretty cover or catchy name.

uni57

2009-05-23, 04:01 AM

The vegetarians are noticeably absent in this thread. Aren't you guys going to give me a dose of my karma? I'm eating almost nothing but animal products! Come on! Tell us what's on your mind!

Gilby

2009-05-23, 11:29 PM

Have you looked at the south beach diet? Somewhat similar, but I think it's better than the "eat all meat" diet.

The basis of the diet is to eat foods that have a low glycemic index.

Borges

2009-05-24, 05:25 AM

I am exercising. Not enough. But I'm improving. And the clock is ticking. Because I'm probably going to drop the diet after I lose the weight. Most people who do that regain everything they've lost. I'll need an increased metabolism and activity level in order to keep the pounds from returning. In other words, I have to develop an active lifestyle. I have to develop additional muscle mass in order to increase my metabolic rate. I have to develop a fitness level such that I can engage in a meaningful amount of sustained exercise. Otherwise, the pounds will return. My plan is to slowly develop an active lifestyle while simultaneously losing weight on Atkins. It's faster, plus the less overweight you are, the easier it is to be active. I'm still hoping someone will comment on my overall plan. What do you think? Are you against Atkins (remember I already happily eat a high-fat diet)? To me it seems okay to use both an eating technique and physical activity to lose weight.

That sounds like something I read here. (http://precissionnutricion.com) I think they (and you) make a lot of sense (except I'm not convinced you really need to buy the stuff they're selling).

I don't really like diets that take healthy stuff out of your diet. A low fat diet is not healthy if it makes you stop eating enough fish and vegetable oil. A low carb diet is not healthy if it makes you stop eating enough vegetables.

You sound like you know a bit about what's good for you and what isn't.
Good luck.

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-24, 02:59 PM

The vegetarians are noticeably absent in this thread. Aren't you guys going to give me a dose of my karma? I'm eating almost nothing but animal products! Come on! Tell us what's on your mind!

If you could be a bit more specific, we'll try to satisfy you.

But if you're asking vegetarians to be sadists to your masochistic impulses, you should know that vegetarians are less hostile, aggressive, violent, or rude than meat eaters.

Emile.m

2009-05-24, 03:10 PM

Die are crap.

Eat better and excercies, that's all.

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-24, 03:24 PM

Die are crap.

Die are crap.

Die are crap.

Let's irritate Dave by reminding of this basic truth:
actually, you should think of new permanent lifestyle, not diet.

Though he claims to know it, he has only taken it in in a "neck up" manner.

uni57

2009-05-24, 04:46 PM

Okay, here's the deal. Atkins is not a "just eat meat" diet. It allows for plenty of vegetables. In fact, it requires them. And once you advance beyond the initial weight-loss stages, you will be eating even more vegetables and fruits.

I am currently eating more vegetables on Atkins than I did previous on the Dave Lowell diet.

I don't so much think of it as a "diet." It's a controlled carbohydrate way of eating. This is incredibly important. For the first time in my life, my pancreas is taking a break, not having to pump out insulin all the time. For the first time in my life, I'm not feeding the bad bacteria in my intestinal flora with refined sugars and flours. For the first time in my life, I'm not suppressing my immune system by eating refined sugar and flour. Forget about the weight loss issue -- I want to follow this through and see where it leads. Better sleep? More energy? Better mood? Better overall health? Increased insulin sensitivity? Better metabolic functioning? Longer life (read about the effects of insulin)?

I've temporarily cut out refined junk foods (white bread, white rice, pasta, sugar-laden foods) and replaced them with more vegetables than I was previously eating. Don't worry, I plan to add back limited quantities of that junk food when I go off the "diet."

Atkins is not ideal. Perhaps if you emphasized lacto-fermented foods and beverages and bone broths, plus added back grains that were properly prepared (soaked or sprouted), you would come closer to the way the Weston A. Price Foundation recommends you eat.

Here are a few articles by Dr. Ron Rosedale on insulin and leptin. I read one of them many years ago on Dr. Mercola's web site, but this other web site has a lot of good articles all in one place --

Dr. Ron Rosedale --

Insulin and Its Metabolic Effects (http://life-enthusiast.com/index/Articles/Rosedale/Insulin_and_Its_Metabolic_Effects)
Diabetes Is Not A Disease Of Blood Sugar! (http://life-enthusiast.com/index/Articles/Rosedale/Diabetes_Is_Not_a_Disease_of_Blood_Sugar) (I do not have diabetes, by the way)
Diabetes and Leptin Connection (http://life-enthusiast.com/index/Articles/Rosedale/Diabetes_and_Leptin_Connection)

The following is a fabulous presentation by Sally Fallon and Dr. Mary Enig, president/founder and vice president, respectively, of the Weston A. Price Foundation --

The Oiling of America (http://life-enthusiast.com/index/Articles/Fallon/The_Oiling_of_America) or use the link to the original article on the WAPF site (http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/oiling.html)

Also by Sally Fallon and Dr. Enig --

The Truth About Saturated Fat (http://life-enthusiast.com/index/Articles/Enig/Truth_About_Saturated_Fat)

And Dr. Weston A. Price himself, a doctor (dentist, actually), who traveled the world in the 1930s to study isolated populations that were eating their native, ancestral diets. He examined their overall health and dental health and he studied in great detail what they were eating. This study would be impossible today.

Dr. Weston A. Price (http://www.westonaprice.org/nutritiongreats/price.html)

uni57

2009-05-24, 04:52 PM

But if you're asking vegetarians to be sadists to your masochistic impulses, you should know that vegetarians are less hostile, aggressive, violent, or rude than meat eaters.I've been quite enthusiastically vocal with my views against vegetarianism. I thought that it would be nice, in fair and well-deserved karmic reciprocation, if a few vegetarians or vegans stopped by to tell me -- nicely or otherwise -- why I'm making a mistake.

uni57

2009-05-24, 07:25 PM

Have you looked at the south beach diet? Somewhat similar, but I think it's better than the "eat all meat" diet.

The basis of the diet is to eat foods that have a low glycemic index.This is why I have not considered the South Beach Diet. (http://www.westonaprice.org/bookreviews/southbeachdiet.html)

I haven't looked into the diet other than reading that review several years ago, which was written by an organization that I have come to highly trust. If it's low-fat or low-saturated fat, then I'm against it. If you reduce carbs and reduce fat, what's left? Protein. Not a good diet, at a glance. Now, it would seem that I'm dismissing it without really knowing much about it -- much the same way many dismiss Atkins. And maybe that's true. But I do put my trust in the Weston A. Price Foundation. They've done their due diligence and summarized their findings above. That's enough for me.

I'm not really shopping around for a "diet". I never was. I was losing weight just fine by watching portion size and becoming more active. But then my friend said how well he was doing on Atkins, so I looked into it. I found it compatible with my understanding of nutrition and not entirely at odds with WAPF's dietary guidelines (http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/dietguidelines.html). Plus, the idea of going very, very low on carbohydrates intrigues me, for many reasons.

Day 6

This is day six of my foray into extremely low carbohydrate eating. I feel fine. In fact, I might be sleeping better. I feel more refreshed upon awakening with fewer hours of sleep needed. I've lost five and half pounds of something. Some fat, for sure, but much of it water loss (there's no way I've lost 19,250 calories worth of fat in five days).

phlegm

2009-05-24, 09:01 PM

But I do put my trust in the Weston A. Price Foundation.

Did you just admit to having faith in pseudoscience? :D

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-24, 10:11 PM

did you just admit to having faith in pseudoscience? :d

+1

:)

uni57

2009-05-25, 02:16 AM

Did you just admit to having faith in pseudoscience? :DNo.

+1

:)Look, everyone! Billy can count to one.

john_childs

2009-05-25, 08:58 PM

A Low-Carb Diet Can Hurt Your Memory (http://health.yahoo.com/experts/weightloss/422/a-low-carb-diet-can-hurt-your-memory)

MuniAddict

2009-05-25, 09:35 PM

A Low-Carb Diet Can Hurt Your Memory (http://health.yahoo.com/experts/weightloss/422/a-low-carb-diet-can-hurt-your-memory)I feel as though I've heard about that before, but I can't remember! :p

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-25, 10:01 PM

A Low-Carb Diet Can Hurt Your Memory (http://health.yahoo.com/experts/weightloss/422/a-low-carb-diet-can-hurt-your-memory)

"Researchers at Tufts University have found that dieters who strive to eliminate most carbohydrates from their diets scored significantly lower on memory-based tasks than did subjects who simply reduced the amount of calories they ate.

The study subjects included 19 women ages 22 to 55, 9 of whom were put on a low-carbohydrate diet and 10 on a low-calorie but balanced diet. All subjects attended 5 memory-testing sessions in which their spatial memory, attention, cognitive skills, and short and long-term memory were assessed. These sessions were conducted throughout the 3 weeks of the study.

After 1 week of severe carbohydrate restriction, memory performance among the low-carb group, especially when dealing with difficult tasks, gradually decreased compared with the low-calorie group. In addition, the low-carb dieters had slower reaction times and faltered during tests of their visual-spatial memory."

Limitations of this study:
1. Don't generalize from such a small sample size.
2. It is likely they had so many hypotheses (with 5 tasks over 3 weeks) that simply by chance at least one will be significant at the .05 level.

Limitations of reporting:
1. No statistical data
2. No effect size reported. That is, the effect may have been statistically significant without being clinically significant, like the IQ difference between males and females.
3. They report memory problems occurred "especially when dealing with difficult tasks." Of course. Both groups can recall a 5-digit sequence. The difference only appears when they must recall a 12-digit sequence.
4. "the low-carb dieters had slower reaction times and faltered during tests of their visual-spatial memory." Slower reaction time is not a memory task.

In short, before you leave your diet, find the original paper, and wait until this study is replicated meaningfully.

Billy

uni57

2009-05-26, 12:43 AM

In short, before you leave your diet, find the original paper, and wait until this study is replicated meaningfully.Billy, thank you. I'm speechless. I appreciate the analysis and the insight (as opposed to your more usual modus operandi, which is to incite). It's like you were a normal person for a moment. And I mean that in the most loving way possible. Really.

Long before this study is replicated, I will have gone back to a more normal level of carbohydrates. I'm dying for some pizza and some sort of potato or rice to go with my meals. And a bun to put my cheeseburger on would be nice. That's the irony: I've cut out mostly junk. I'm eating more vegetables on Atkins than I was before. A potato is basically a big ball of sugar with not much nutritional value to speak of. Bread? Pizza dough? Not very nutritious either. So why are people concerned that I've cut out those junky foods?

This is Day Seven. I'm feeling great. More energetic than before. Needing less sleep. Not sure if it's Atkins or the fact that I've resumed taking high-vitamin cod liver oil (http://www.greenpasture.org) and a food-based multivitamin/multimineral supplement (http://www.megafood.com/products/essentials/essentials_iron_free_one_daily.php). Maybe it's all three. Or maybe I'm feeling better in spite of Atkins. Who knows. But I'm not stopping! It's not all in my head because I never would have believed that my sleep problems would begin to resolve. The bad news is that my weight has not changed much in the last three days. People on the Atkins forums have commented that that might happen. We'll see what the next few days bring.

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-26, 01:20 AM

Not sure if it's Atkins or the fact that I've resumed taking high-vitamin cod liver oil (http://www.greenpasture.org) and a food-based multivitamin/multimineral supplement (http://www.megafood.com/products/essentials/essentials_iron_free_one_daily.php). Maybe it's all three. Or maybe I'm feeling better in spite of Atkins. Who knows. But I'm not stopping! It's not all in my head because I never would have believed that my sleep problems would begin to resolve. The bad news is that my weight has not changed much in the last three days. People on the Atkins forums have commented that that might happen. We'll see what the next few days bring.

Dave,

You're welcome! Thanks for your kind comments.

Maybe the diet + the vitamins is making you feel more energetic/less sleep.

However, the causality may be reversed, that is, you may be finally motivated to stick to the diet because you are feeling better. As you know, many people eat "comfort foods" when they need comfort or soothing from anxiety and depression, both of which sap one's energy and interfere with restful sleep, the 2 factors you currently measure your improvement by.

The relationship may also be bi-causal, that is, the diet helps you feel better and feeling better helps you diet/motivates you.

Vegetarians are allowed to eat ice cream and lots of other crap, but I try to avoid that stuff (in moderation).

Keep it up!

Billy

PS There's also the theory that the Atkins diet works by creating tapeworms in your stomach, and tapeworms don't like carbs.
:D;)

MuniAddict

2009-05-26, 01:30 AM

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070502143834.htm

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/calorie-restriction-diet/MY00578

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-26, 01:40 AM

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070502143834.htm

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/calorie-restriction-diet/MY00578

Terry,

Would you? Could you? Most people would say you really can't call THAT living, would you?

Billy

MuniAddict

2009-05-26, 01:54 AM

Terry,

Would you? Could you? Most people would say you really can't call THAT living, would you?

BillyHaha, my friends said that when I quit smoking and drinking, what seems like a lifetime ago! :D Well, I generally eat less total calories per day than "normal" for my weight, height and activity level. Plus riding every day no doubt keeps the metabolism high and helps burn off any excess calories that might otherwise be stored as fat. So I think there is something to the idea of eating less and aging more slowly. But exercise is still a very important factor. :) (Also having a positive outlook on life, having a good sense of humor and not taking life too seriously :) )

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-26, 02:08 AM

Haha, my friends said that when I quit smoking and drinking, what seems like a lifetime ago! :D Well, I generally eat less total calories per day than "normal" for my weight, height and activity level. Plus riding every day no doubt keeps the metabolism high and helps burn off any excess calories that might otherwise be stored as fat. So I think there is something to the idea of eating less and aging more slowly. But exercise is still a very important factor. :) (Also having a positive outlook on life, having a good sense of humor and not taking life too seriously :) )

Terry,

Thank you!

There's a big difference between quitting smoking and drinking, and the obsession with calories and nutrition required to do THAT!

Billy

MuniAddict

2009-05-26, 02:26 AM

Terry,

Thank you!

There's a big difference between quitting smoking and drinking, and the obsession with calories and nutrition required to do THAT!

BillyI'm in no way a calorie counter lol! I eat what I want, as much as I want, when I want, including cake slices 3-5 days a week! It's just that overall, I don't over eat. Probably part of it is that my stomach is small from all the exercise and being light in wieight, so it just doesn't take that much to fill me up. But I LOVE eating and what I posted about calorie restriction was just something I found interesting, not something I do or condone. Yes, it does seem very extreme and would be hard to follow.

john_childs

2009-05-26, 02:29 AM

In short, before you leave your diet, find the original paper, and wait until this study is replicated meaningfully.

I post a snarky link and you get all serious in analysis. Are you alien Billy?

Borges

2009-05-26, 12:12 PM

That's the irony: I've cut out mostly junk. I'm eating more vegetables on Atkins than I was before. A potato is basically a big ball of sugar with not much nutritional value to speak of. Bread? Pizza dough? Not very nutritious either. So why are people concerned that I've cut out those junky foods?

It's just not normal! Our forefathers have survived mainly on bread and potatos!

(They also burned off all those carbohydrates by being active all day. Today we have cars etc. to burn carbohydrates for us.)

uni57

2009-05-26, 05:42 PM

I post a snarky link and you get all serious in analysis. Are you alien Billy?Yeah, that's one of the most unsettling things I've ever seen. It's like he wasn't Billy for a moment. He even messes with our minds when he's apparently not messing with our minds.

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-26, 09:01 PM

I post a snarky link and you get all serious in analysis. Are you alien Billy?:o:(:confused:

According to Wiki which all aliens rely on, snarky means snide and sarcastic; usually out of irritation. :mad:

it's true I am alien, the analysis just computes automatically.:rolleyes:

we do not understand the tone of dislike for the serious analysis.:confused:

if forgiveness is in order, i'll forgive u if u forgive me.:p

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-26, 09:02 PM

Yeah, that's one of the most unsettling things I've ever seen. It's like he wasn't Billy for a moment. He even messes with our minds when he's apparently not messing with our minds.

I may not be Billy anymore. That remains to be seen.

uni57

2009-05-26, 11:31 PM

I may not be Billy anymore. That remains to be seen.Well, whatever is best for you. But don't go all totally normal on us.

uni57

2009-05-27, 12:21 AM

How many of you are on a high carbohydrate diet? Extruded cold breakfast cereal or a bagel in the morning. Then throughout every day bread, pasta, pastries, cookies, donuts, and six teaspoons of sugar in your coffee.

Have you ever questioned your diet? Are you sure it's healthy?

Do you eat a lot of vegetable oils? Do you cook with these polyunsaturated oils? Do you know they are extremely heat labile? They denature easily. Every twist in the molecule has hydrogen atoms sticking out, ready to be oxidized when heated or exposed to air or sunlight. You better eat a lot of antioxidants if you are eating a lot of these damaged (rancid) oils. The are called free-radicals. Do you know which oils are safe to cook with? Do you know the difference between a fat and an oil? Not much, actually. If it's liquid at room temperature (in its place of origin), then it's an oil. Otherwise it's a fat. Both are lipids. Just FYI.

Do you know which foods are high in antioxidants? Blueberries and strawberries are two of the very best.

Do you read nutrition labels and ingredient lists? Do you stay away from hydrogenated fats and oils (trans fats)? Do you know why you should avoid them?

Do you get enough omega-3 fats? Do you over-consume omega-6 fats? Do you know how that relates to the prostaglandin pathways (http://westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/tripping.html)?

Do you try to buy organic foods? Pasture-raised, grass-fed meat, eggs, and dairy? How much food do you buy directly from farms? Have you talked to the farmer about his farming practices? Do you know where your food comes from and how it's raised? Do you grow any of your own food?

Do you make bone broths with the chicken carcasses or do you just throw them out? Bone broths are full of minerals and collagen.

Do you try to mediate the insulin response to your food consumption? For example, upon eating something high in carbohydrates that cause a rapid spike in blood sugar, do you try to also eat some fat or protein to slow down the digestion and absorption of those carbohydrates?

Have you questioned the wisdom of the government and mainstream medical business? They are the ones who said to eat "heart healthy margarine" for so many years. What's margarine? Basically a stick of trans fat. Now they are finally saying "don't eat trans fat." Maybe they've made other deadly mistakes, too? Like deciding to lump trans fats in with saturated fats in the food tables and then coming to the conclusion that saturated fat is bad for you. Do you know the flimsy science behind the incorrect idea that a high-fat diet and high cholesterol (http://www.amazon.com/Fat-Cholesterol-are-Good-You/dp/919755538X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243383396&sr=8-1) are significant risk factors for coronary heart disease (CHD)? And that maybe what our ancestors ate and thrived on is not so bad, after all?

How much time do you spend in the kitchen and how many hours per week do you spend researching and reading about health-related topics and nutrition?

I wanted criticism and critical analysis when I started this thread. If Atkins is bad, tell me why. I'm listening. But it occurred to me that most people don't analyze their own diets. Or if they do, the do it espousing the party-line low-fat dogma. Treat everything you do as if you decided to do it. Then justify your decisions. For example, "I eat bread every day." Why did you decide to eat bread every day? Leave no stone unturned. Analyze everything. Read (http://www.westonaprice.org/). Study. Think. Look at every food label. Spend time in the kitchen. Your life depends on it!

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-27, 12:44 AM

Well, whatever is best for you. But don't go all totally normal on us.

:D

The Mediterranean diet has been held up as among the healthiest, and it has plenty of carbs (pasta), virgin olive oil, wine (more carbs), and vegetables. Do we need Google evidence?

uni57

2009-05-27, 12:50 AM

Do we need Google evidence?No. I didn't supply any references either.

Is that the extent of your self-analysis?

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-27, 02:29 AM

No. I didn't supply any references either.

Is that the extent of your self-analysis?

I am not my motherboard.

Us computers are fond of sayings like: "The Apple doesn't fall far from the decision-tree."

uni57

2009-05-27, 05:33 AM

I am not my motherboard.

Us computers are fond of sayings like: "The Apple doesn't fall far from the decision-tree."Who programmed you, anyway? It's "We computers..."

Get with the program. Get it?

Jerrick

2009-05-27, 05:47 AM

What I do.

I find it the easiest to cut out almost all fastfood. I dont drink coffee, so thats not a problem, but if I did, id quit that. And Cut way back on my pop drinking. Mainly just water for me when im in workout mode.

I dont fully change my diet. I just say no to that double bacon cheeseburger for a snack, and eating late at night, like all the dinner left overs. Leftovers will feel more efficient the next day or even for another dinner.

But, after the crap is gone, its the easy part. Eat and exercise. Burn more calories than you are putting in. Protein shake before a workout and another right after it.

The way I look at a strict diet is that to keep the shape the diet gets you in, is to live that diet for the rest of your life. Cause as soon as you change back to normal eating habits, you start to pack back what you just lost. I dont like not being able to eat most of all the things I usually eat too...

So yeah, getting in shape isnt hard. Just takes some times, dont expect instant results, and just get the commitment to do a 10min workout. Seriously, some of those completely wipe me out.

john_childs

2009-05-27, 08:37 AM

:confused:

According to Wiki which all aliens rely on, snarky means snide and sarcastic; usually out of irritation. :mad:

Snarky in the sense that I was making a comment as the straight man (as in a vaudeville act) to get a reaction from Dave. Snarky has multiple meanings and not all of those meanings are documented.

Borges

2009-05-27, 10:12 AM

I wanted criticism and critical analysis when I started this thread. If Atkins is bad, tell me why. I'm listening. But it occurred to me that most people don't analyze their own diets. Or if they do, the do it espousing the party-line low-fat dogma. Treat everything you do as if you decided to do it. Then justify your decisions. For example, "I eat bread every day." Why did you decide to eat bread every day?

Since you asked for criticism ...

Actually it's just a few things to remember when on a low-carb diet.

Atkins is easy to do wrong. Particularly if you only hear the party-lines.

If you take e.g. potatos out of your diet you have to replace them with something other than fat and protein to to get your minerals and vitamin C.
That not a trivial task on a budget of 20g of carbohydrates per day.

Multi-vitamins are a poor replacement for real food. Also the ones recommended by Dr. Atkins.

Ketosis can make you tired, make it harder to get enough exercise and prevent you from getting some of the good effects of the exercise you get.

If you get more calories than you burn you will get bigger. If you tell people they can eat all they want of an energy-dense food like fat, many people will overeat.

Leave no stone unturned. Analyze everything. Read (http://www.westonaprice.org/). Study. Think. Look at every food label. Spend time in the kitchen. Your life depends on it!

That would be a full-time job with a topic as complex as this. I think you can get very close eating well with much less.

Bon appetite.

siafirede

2009-05-27, 01:18 PM

Sugar is addictive leading to consumption of more sugar, yet gives no satisfaction, only empty calories.

I definitely get satisfaction from sugar.

Dave,

I'll be the first to admit here that I don't fully know what the details of the Atkins diet are, but I think you would get more constructive feedback if you posted this question on a vegetarian/vegan board and see what they had to say. The vegan diet seems like the polar opposite of the Atkins diet, and it seems like a much healthier way of eating.

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-27, 09:32 PM

Snarky in the sense that I was making a comment as the straight man (as in a vaudeville act) to get a reaction from Dave. Snarky has multiple meanings and not all of those meanings are documented.

Undocumented meanings??! How's a documented alien to deal with THAT?

Dave:

If you're looking for downsides, Ketosis gives u funny breath.

Billy

Wota

2009-05-28, 03:59 PM

I don't really know anything about specific diets, but I lost around 45 lbs following two simple rules: eat less and exercise more. It may also help that I am 22 though.

uni57

2009-05-29, 05:32 AM

Day 10

This diet is making me crazy. There's nothing good to eat. I'm ready to pack it in after 10 days. Keep in mind that I absolutely LOVE to eat meat, cheese, eggs, bacon, butter, and cream. But there's nothing to go with those things. No bread. No potatoes. No rice. I can't even have meat that has breading. I'm allowed to eat vegetables, except that I hate vegetables. I love fruit, except that in the beginning, I'm not allowed to eat fruit.

I weigh myself every day, even though they say not to. Several days ago, for three mornings in a row, my weight didn't budge. Then it went down by a pleasing amount. I've had three more days of stable weight. If the cycle repeats, I should have some good news tomorrow morning. If I don't, I may go have a god damn pizza. And I'll go see the Terminator movie and gorge on a tub of popcorn drenched in "butter" (butter-flavored corn oil dyed butter-yellow).

Maybe I'll just minimize the excess empty carbohydrates. I'll watch portion sizes and become super-active. I have an idea! I'll just burn the fat off the old fashioned way: exercise! What a great idea I've had. :)

uni57

2009-05-29, 02:50 PM

Day 11

Atkins is working. I weigh myself every day. In analyzing the pattern of weight loss over the last 11 days, I believe the weight lost in the first four days is water loss. After the first four days, my weight loss slowed (actually remained stable for three days). I believe that's when I lost all the water I was going to lose and any further loss is fat loss. Actually, some of the initial weight loss was fat as well as water. But I'm being conservative in my estimates.

If my theory is correct about how much weight loss is due to the diuretic effect of Atkins (and any weight-loss program that actually causes you to burn your fat stores), then in six days, I've lost three and a half pounds of fat. Call it four pounds per week.

That's a fantastic rate of loss. Also, I've been very busy since I started Atkins so I've gotten zero exercise during that time. Pathetic, I know. But imagine the results if I exercised, too (which is a non-optional part of Atkins, by the way). My clothes are fitting better, too. That's another excellent indicator.

Atkins is working! That being said, I'm ready to scrap the diet. The food choices are too limiting. I can't have one friggin' slice of pizza? I can't have a bowl of strawberries for God's sake? I can't have chicken that has some measly breading on it? I can't have smoked BBQ ribs at my friend's restaurant because the rub has a bit of sugar in it?

BillyTheMountain

2009-05-29, 03:41 PM

dudewithasock

2009-05-29, 06:34 PM

I think if I knew you in real life, Dave, I would never want to have lunch with you. ;)

uni57

2009-05-30, 02:50 AM

I think if I knew you in real life, Dave, I would never want to have lunch with you. ;)Don't say that! Why??? I mean, I see the winky smiley thing, but still.

What do you mean? Do you think I would get all analytical about what you've chosen to eat? We would be talking about computer programming, of course. And I'm off Atkins, so I'd be eating the same things as you.

uni57

2009-05-30, 03:13 AM

NOT Day 12

I've completed my Atkins diet. Today I ate breaded chicken strips. About six french fries. And one slice of pizza from Vinnie's Pizzarama. And smoked BBQ ribs from my friend's restaurant (which have sugar in the rub and in the BBQ sauce).

Happiness, in the form of enjoying "good" food, has returned to my life. Funny how eliminating most of the pleasure of eating caused me so much distress. I guess I love to eat. But look at where that got me! (overweight)

Going without anything sweet for 11 days changed my sense of taste. My friend makes his BBQ sauce less sweet than most other places. But tonight it tasted sweeter than usual. Food, then, tastes different to different people. Taste, in the form of sweetness and probably other things like saltiness, is subjective. If you cut back on sweet-tasting things, your body adjusts. I assume that if you had cravings or addictions to sweet foods, you could break that addiction over time.

I wonder what good things I did to my intestinal bacterial flora. Sugar and refined flour and other junk is what the bad bacteria feed on. Well, they got the starvation treatment for 11 days. I hope that there was some die-off, with the resulting ecological niche being filled by an increasing population of beneficial bacteria.

I gave my pancreas a nice vacation, too. And maybe my body became just a bit more insulin sensitive. All good things.

The increased energy that I reported one day didn't last. Then it was back to normal. But my sleep is better. Not sure why.

I'm now watching portion sizes and minimizing bread and sugar and potatoes (as evidenced by my food choices today). I didn't opt for the Chili's Big Mouth Burger (which comes on a big, giant bun). I got the Chipotle chicken strips instead. I threw out most of the fries that came with it.

Now I'm waiting to see how much weight I'll gain back. Possibly quickly, too. I think -- and Billy, this somewhat answers your question -- that the body requires extra water to burn fat. So if you are burning your fat stores (as well as the fat you ingest), you will experience a diuretic effect. I don't actually know much about the metabolic process. If I continue to lose fat, through moderation and exercise, perhaps I won't gain back any of the water weight that I've lost. If so, then I won't be alarmed when I step on the scale.

If anybody is still with me, thanks for reading. And thanks everyone for the comments and feedback. I'll keep posting here now and then with my post-Atkins weight-loss experiences.

dudewithasock

2009-05-30, 03:38 AM

Don't say that! Why??? I mean, I see the winky smiley thing, but still.

What do you mean? Do you think I would get all analytical about what you've chosen to eat? We would be talking about computer programming, of course. And I'm off Atkins, so I'd be eating the same things as you.

That^^

But I'm glad you're back to eating delicious foods.

BTW, off-topic, I've been following some video tutorials on learning to work with OpenGL and GLUT the past week. Really enjoying it so far. Graphics programming just...makes sense to me.

uni57

2009-05-30, 04:11 AM

That^^

But I'm glad you're back to eating delicious foods.

BTW, off-topic, I've been following some video tutorials on learning to work with OpenGL and GLUT the past week. Really enjoying it so far. Graphics programming just...makes sense to me.Hey, I would be so happy to meet you in person that I probably wouldn't even think about lecturing you about your bad food choices :) (especially because I'd probably be eating the same junk as you). Have you look at Qt? I'm developing a Windows-based product using GCC and the Qt GUI framework. Do you still want to do game development? Much more fun than developing accounting software. Keep following your passion! It will lead you to good places.

I'll look into OpenGL and GLUT. I just glanced at the Wikipedia pages, as a start. I never really did any advanced graphics stuff. Just plain GUI stuff, mostly. I know that Qt has extensive support for 2D and 3D graphics (as well as a Windows/Mac type of GUI). It has OpenGL. Maybe I'll play around with it.