Vote!!!

[johnfoss]

This thread is directed at the American citizens, and to anyone else with an election coming up. If your nation allows you the privilege to vote, to not do so is to dishonor those that struggled and/or died to make this possible for you. You guys know how infrequently I actually create new threads. I thought this one was worth talking about.

Some of the reasons people cite for not voting:

1. Don't like any of the major candidates
2. No time
3. Haven't kept up with the details
4. Don't care

1. By not voting, you are effectively casting a vote for the one you like the least. Also, if you refuse to vote for this reason, stop your bloody complaining until after the next time you do vote.

2. You've got to be kidding. Most states (or all?) allow you to vote absentee, and many others allow early voting. The time excuse no longer applies.

3. It's not too late. If you just don't care, which you're bordering on by not having boned-up by now, I'll get to you in #4. Go to the candidate's web sites. Read the news sites. Look for news agencies that aren't obvious in their bias. Talk to your friends.

When it comes to the non-candidate stuff you get to vote on, such as the Prop 8 that's being discussed in a different thread currently, read up on these carefully. While Prop 8 is an easy yes or no to almost everyone, most of these props and ballot measures are a lot more complex. The only way I can decipher some of them is to look at whose paying for the various ads for and against them. For example, California's Prop 7 is about getting the state to use a higher percentage of clean energy. the "No" side has a very big budget, and has told us for months that it's poorly written and it will harm small solar companies, etc. But these ads are paid for by California Edison and other utility companies, among others. That's an easy Yes for me.

4. Don't care? Then why are you even reading this? If you don't vote, please don't waste our time with your opinions. Put your vote where your mouth is.

Everyone else, don't forget to vote! Doesn't matter which way, but I hope you'll consider each of your areas of choice carefully, and perhaps not vote on the ones you don't know about. For example, I didn't vote on the people running for my local school board. I don't know any of them, and I don't have any kids. But I did vote.

[kevinalexandersmith]

Some of the reasons people cite for not voting:

1. Don't like any of the major candidates
Or vote third party. It's not a waist if it sends a message. A vote for a third party may influence the directions the major parties go as they try to appeal to voters like you.

[BluntRM]

YouTube - you can vote however you like **Lyrics**

[JJuggle]

It's not a waist if it sends a message.
I've seen more than one waist in my days that sends a message.

And I suppose I must confess more than one has caused me to commit adultery. ;)

[kevinalexandersmith]

I've seen more than one waist in my days that sends a message.

And I suppose I must confess more than one has caused me to commit adultery. ;)Sounds like a message of love.

All joking aside, I do think it’s unfair that atheists are forced to choose between two theists for president. I mean you either vote for a guy you think is delusional or you vote for the other guy you think is delusional. This country has already seen more than its share of delusional presidents. That and so many other reasons, is why my early vote didn’t go to a major party.

So, my fellow unicyclists, if I can take the time to throw away my vote on someone you’ve probably never heard of, then you guys can take the time to vote for someone that’s got a shot at winning.

VOTE! - you have to counter balance the nut jobs, like me, that ARE voting.

[johnfoss]

Yes, I didn't mean to leave out third-party candidates. To vote is always better than to sit on the sidelines.

As for voting for delusional candidates, there isn't much of a choice. No atheist has a chance of getting too high in American politics in the near future. Besides, it's usually easier to tell the lesser of two delusionals... :)

[JJuggle]

All joking aside, I do think it’s unfair that atheists are forced to choose between two theists for president.
I am not any more troubled about having to vote for a theist than I am about having theists for friends. I would like the opportunity to vote for an atheist with an actual chance of winning, but I'd also like the opportunity to vote for a vegetarian who had a chance of winning. But for the time being I'll have to be content that I have some atheist friends.

I have voted for my share of third party candidates and will do so on Tuesday as well. Just not for president this time.

[Jerrick]

Im not voting.

[hobo_chuck]

Im not voting.

And you've never really given a good reason as to why...

[Jerrick]

Yes I have. Search. I dont really need a good reason to not vote either. Dont want to do it cause I dont want to do it. Thats all there is to it.

[saskatchewanian]

I don't know what the voter turnout will be in the states for your election but I hope it beats the Canadian turnout for ours. Voter turnout in the true north strong and free was a dismal 59%, the lowest turnout ever.

Please do your country a favor and show us up. You owe it to yourselves, you owe it to your country, and you owe it to the world.

[SHAY_CAM]

Vote for nader!

[unicyclerperson]

There's no point in voting because one person makes no difference when it comes to elections (of course there's the extremely rare chance that it's won by one vote but that never happens).

[Tak]

I voted last weekend; there was a long line outside the polling place.

[Daytripper63]

As with the last few elections I again will cast a vote few whom I feel is the lesser of two evils.... OR is it the evil of two lessers.

[johnfoss]

There's no point in voting because one person makes no difference when it comes to elections...So how do you group vote, or get more votes per person? Somehow people get elected every time, though usually everyone only gets one vote. Except lazy people who get zero.

[Jerrick]

So how do you group vote, or get more votes per person? Somehow people get elected every time, though usually everyone only gets one vote. Except lazy people who get zero.


Thanks for calling me lazy.

[monkeyman]

I don't know what the voter turnout will be in the states for your election but I hope it beats the Canadian turnout for ours. Voter turnout in the true north strong and free was a dismal 59%, the lowest turnout ever.

Please do your country a favor and show us up. You owe it to yourselves, you owe it to your country, and you owe it to the world.
We have pretty terrible turnout too. It's embarassing

There's no point in voting because one person makes no difference when it comes to elections (of course there's the extremely rare chance that it's won by one vote but that never happens).
We should probably apply this line of thinking to charities too. Other people will donate, why should I? Or, you know, unicyclist.com. While I'm at it (http://www.unicyclist.com/donate)...
Thanks for calling me lazy.
Jerrick, I gotta say, you're probably not gonna find much love on here for not voting, especially for a reason of essentially apathy. You do have the right to do that, and I won't think less of you as a person or anything, but it seems very irresponsible to me.

[Jerrick]

Laziness has nothing to do with why im not voting though. Laziness may be a reason for some people for not voting, but its not mine.

Why is it irresponsible? Going by a definiton I guess im not answering to a higher authority, but besides that, what is there?

[unicyclerperson]

So how do you group vote, or get more votes per person? Somehow people get elected every time, though usually everyone only gets one vote. Except lazy people who get zero.

Yes, individual votes are what wins elections but there are many, many, many, many people who make up that total. So I'm saying that if you remove one vote, in the grand scheme of things, it has no effect.

We should probably apply this line of thinking to charities too. Other people will donate, why should I? Or, you know, unicyclist.com. While I'm at it (http://www.unicyclist.com/donate)...


In this case, there are less people who donate to unicyclist.com than vote in U.S.A., thus the individual person who wishes to make a donation is more significant. The higher the number of people voting (or donating), the less important it becomes while the less people voting (or donating), the more important it becomes. If you have three people that vote on the president (rather than all of USA), you'd be stupid not to vote since you have such an important impact, but if you have hundreds of millions of people voting, who cares.

[kington99]

Well it's certainly going to be an interesting debate if you expect everyone on one side of it to not post in here John.

[saskatchewanian]

Well it's certainly going to be an interesting debate if you expect everyone on one side of it to not post in here John.

I don't think this tread was meant to be so much a debate as a PSA.

[SqueakyOnion]

I sent in my voter registration before the deadline. I got my voter registration card/information the day before the absentee ballot form was due. I overnighted it for $16.50. Today, 11/2, I got my absentee ballot in the mail. It was due by 10/31. Looks like I won't be voting. :(

Maybe I should have registered in Texas, rather than my home state of Pennsylvania.

In either case, I think the right not to vote is very important and needs to be protected. I've heard people say "everyone should be required to vote." If that ever happened, I'd refuse to vote in protest.

Jerrick needs to explain his reasons for not voting no more than a vote needs to explain his reasoning for voting for a particular candidate. His doesn't owe anyone an explanation.

[habbywall]

I'm only voting if I can be naked.
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=7765868&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

[uni57]

As a procrastinator who doesn't own a TV, I'm in a bit of a predicament. I barely have an idea about how to cast my vote for president. I know nothing about the Congressional candidates and even less about the local candidates (in fact, I don't even know what a "Board of Chosen Freeholders" is).

The presidential debates are on YouTube. I guess I'll start there and work my way down. Thanks, John, for making this thread. Otherwise I would have put this off until the last minute.


P.S. - I'm not voting if there are going to be naked men present.

[Mikefule]

The vote is for the person who will be one of the most powerful decision makers in the world, and only the American people are entitled to vote.

I agree wholly with the first post: it is a privilege and a duty to vote.

America is fighting wars in Afghanistan and Iraq at least in part to promote democracy. The least the American people can do is demonstrate that democracy really is important to them.

There is usually no excuse for not voting. Even voting for the least worst option is better than not voting at all.

And put some thought into it. You're voting for the candidate's principles, competence, and ability to lead your country and the free world in the difficult times ahead, not voting on the basis of tribal loyalty,or the candidate's media image.

This post is not intended to be partisan. Vote for democracy.

[evil-nick]

I voted last week. I didn't vote in Canada (dual Citizenship, living in Canada) because I had been lazy and hadn't kept up with details, like what each party stands for. It's not an excuse, it just means I have no right to complain about the government until the next election. ;)

[BluntRM]

The vote is for the person who will be one of the most powerful decision makers in the world, and only the American people are entitled to vote.


Actually, the Queen emailed me yesterday with this:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/04_03/queen20805_468x348.jpg



To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

In light of your failure in recent years to nominate competent candidates for President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.
(You should look up 'revocation' in the Oxford English Dictionary.)
Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas , which she does not fancy).
Your new Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, will appoint a Governor for America without the need for further elections.
Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

-----------------------
1. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'colour,' 'favour,' 'labour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix '-ize' will be replaced by the suffix '-ise.' Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').
------------------------
2. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as ''like' and 'you know' is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. There is no such thing as U.S. English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take into account the reinstated letter 'u'' and the elimination of '-ize.'
-------------------
3. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.
-----------------
4. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not quite ready to be independent. Guns should only be used for shooting grouse. If you can't sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, then you're not ready to shoot grouse.
----------------------
5. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.
----------------------
6. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
--------------------
7. The former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline) of roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.
-------------------
8. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.
-------------------
9. The cold, tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. South African beer is also acceptable, as they are pound for pound the greatest sporting nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of the British Commonwealth - see what it did for them. American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.
---------------------
10. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.
---------------------
11. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies).
---------------------
12. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America . Since only 2.1% of you are aware there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first to take the sting out of their deliveries.
--------------------
13. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.
-----------------
14. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).
---------------
15. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 p.m. with proper cups, with saucers, and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; plus strawberries (with cream) when in season.

16. Coffe is not good for you and will be replaced by tea, except for the former US Navy, now the Royal Navy.



17. US Marines will be folded into the Royal Marines efficaciously. They are awarded a pompom to replace present cap emblems.

[unicycle22]

lol thats funny.

id vote but im 2 young 2

[JJuggle]

Haha. LOL. Isn't all the below like, you know, contingent on the limey muthas - they can look that up - taking away all the guns first. Almost makes me wish I had one.

Actually, the Queen emailed me yesterday with this:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/04_03/queen20805_468x348.jpg



To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

In light of your failure in recent years to nominate competent candidates for President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.
(You should look up 'revocation' in the Oxford English Dictionary.)
Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas , which she does not fancy).
Your new Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, will appoint a Governor for America without the need for further elections.
Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

-----------------------
1. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'colour,' 'favour,' 'labour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix '-ize' will be replaced by the suffix '-ise.' Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').
------------------------
2. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as ''like' and 'you know' is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. There is no such thing as U.S. English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take into account the reinstated letter 'u'' and the elimination of '-ize.'
-------------------
3. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.
-----------------
4. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not quite ready to be independent. Guns should only be used for shooting grouse. If you can't sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, then you're not ready to shoot grouse.
----------------------
5. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.
----------------------
6. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
--------------------
7. The former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline) of roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.
-------------------
8. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.
-------------------
9. The cold, tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. South African beer is also acceptable, as they are pound for pound the greatest sporting nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of the British Commonwealth - see what it did for them. American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.
---------------------
10. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.
---------------------
11. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies).
---------------------
12. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America . Since only 2.1% of you are aware there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first to take the sting out of their deliveries.
--------------------
13. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.
-----------------
14. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).
---------------
15. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 p.m. with proper cups, with saucers, and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; plus strawberries (with cream) when in season.

16. Coffe is not good for you and will be replaced by tea, except for the former US Navy, now the Royal Navy.



17. US Marines will be folded into the Royal Marines efficaciously. They are awarded a pompom to replace present cap emblems.

[johnfoss]

Thanks for calling me lazy.So far, that would be you. Unicycleperson is only 13.

Well it's certainly going to be an interesting debate if you expect everyone on one side of it to not post in here John. I don't think I leaned it any particular way, did I?

I think the right not to vote is very important and needs to be protected.I agree with you 100% that we mustn't *make* people vote. I don't know the rules for your state, but if you registered, can't you vote at the regular polls? Or take your absentee ballot in on election day to the polling place?

I know nothing about the Congressional candidates and even less about the local candidates...Don't feel bad, Governor Palin doesn't even know the name of the Prime Minister of Canada, the country that Alaska *touches* (unlike Russia)! For boning up, I don't know that the debates are a great place to learn about the candidates. I'd start with their web sites first, where you can read their actual policies. Then try the YouTube stuff.

What mikefule said. We are the only ones that get to vote for the leader of one of the most powerful countries on Earth. The other stuff is less important and, for stuff like School Board and judges we didn't worry too much about. But if you don't like who gets elected and you didn't vote, you're part of the problem. This is especially true if you're in one of the swing states. My state is pretty solidly one color, electoral college-wise, but I still consider voting to be my responsibility.

[Jerrick]

So far, that would be you. Unicycleperson is only 13.


Ok, so im 19, and not voting, so that makes me lazy? No. Irresponsible? No.

Does it mean, that maybe these last 8 year have not affected me in anyway, and because I feel that I do not need a change, and that the next 4 years are not going to change my life, that I dont need to vote? Yes.

People tell me, if your not going to vote, at least vote for the lesser candidates. That makes no sense to me. Well, it does, cause I see where they are coming from, I see where all the pro-vote points are coming from, but for me, its pointless to do. Id rather not vote than just throw a vote to someone just for the act of being able to vote.

People have also been very offensive to me when the war subject comes up. "We need to get them out of there!" And you know, I may not agree with the war, but look at our draft. Its not something we fall asleep and worry about cause the next morning we our forcefully shipped out. Many of my closest friends, and a good majority of others, choose to go. Are proud to go. Are depressed when they have to leave because of injury and are so excited to come back. So like I said above, I dont like the war, but im not going to be the one to help pull people away from what they believe in.

And Ill stop going off topic, but if you want, I will continue and point out why people want me to vote and my reasons why I am not going to vote.

I do not feel it as a duty I do not have something calling me saying "You need to be part of the change! Be the change!" I do not need a change. I am perfectly happy with everything right now. So when there is something that will cause a large impact on my personal life and the life of my family, then I will vote, which I have before, on things that go on in my own city.

So cyclone, call me selfish way before you call me lazy, because the last thing I am is lazy.

[critter]

It's a civic duty of all people in a democratic nations.

If you haven't registered to vote,
it's too late to vote. next time.

[uni57]

Haha. LOL. Isn't all the below like, you know, contingent on the limey muthas - they can look that up - taking away all the guns first. Almost makes me wish I had one.They seem to have converted Raphael into a top-quoting, full-quoting bloke (edit: or is it chap?).

[petad]

Jerrick, you definitely seem to be selfish with your reason to not vote. But I respect your right to not vote.

Still, keep in mind that just because you're not on fire, it doesn't mean you shouldn't grab the fire extinguisher to put out the guy next to you. Don't wait until you are negatively affected by the failed policies of the current administration. Consider yourself lucky, and vote. Too late now, though.

[JJuggle]

They seem to have converted Raphael into a top-quoting, full-quoting bloke (edit: or is it chap?).
Neither was done without careful consideration, mate.

[Jerrick]

Jerrick, you definitely seem to be selfish with your reason to not vote. But I respect your right to not vote.

Still, keep in mind that just because you're not on fire, it doesn't mean you shouldn't grab the fire extinguisher to put out the guy next to you. Don't wait until you are negatively affected by the failed policies of the current administration. Consider yourself lucky, and vote. Too late now, though.


The US isnt on fire. Big difference in the analogy. Almost like apples and oranges. (Thats the two used in the saying right? Like comparing apples and oranges? Funny cause they have a lot of similarities.:p)

Im only being selfish now. Maybe next election it will be different. Who knows. It all depends on how an individual feels about the people running. And I dont feel greatly towards any of the runners, so thats why its going to take something more directed to me to move me this time around.

Its also my civic duty to stand for what I believe in. I do not believe much in either candidate, and this year seems more joke filled than earlier elections. I dont feel it as a civic duty to vote for people I don't like, and going for the "lesser of two evils" seems like a bad decision. Like I said before, to me thats like just voting to say you voted and to ahve that (to me) fake sense of pride cause you did it. Im not going to be part of the solution, and im not going to be part of the problem. Im just going to be.

So for the next 4 years ill continue to aggravate and have fun with you guys until the next election.

Anyways. I like Joe Biden the most out of everyone I have been reading about. I dislike the fact that a lot of votes to Obama are because he is black. Lot of people are voting just because of his color. When Hilary was running big time, quite a few people were going to vote for her just cause she was a woman. Recommend a book by the cover first, then read it later. I didnt like that.

And a question, cause this is something I only started to hear when I was talking politics with a friend on a way to another friends house on halloween. Lot of assination attemps on Obama? I havent heard about that in the news unless I missed the story. But seriously? People already trying to kill him?

[Gilby]

Many people do not vote because it'd be endorsing the system or the candidates. Candidates use the voting as justification for their actions and positions. What if only a minority voted? Would that not be saying something about this system?

Non-voters have every right to complain when the their rights are being infringed on by this political system.

[evil-nick]

It's a civic duty of all people in a democratic nations.

If you haven't registered to vote,
it's too late to vote. next time.

Not necessarily! The law varies state to state, some allow you to register at the polls. If that applies to you, then register tomorrow or Tuesday, and vote!

Jerrick, I understand what you mean about things not affecting you the last 8 years... I was the same way the first time I could vote (missed the absentee ballot deadline). Too bad yer not my age... We could use ya!

[SqueakyOnion]

I agree with you 100% that we mustn't *make* people vote. I don't know the rules for your state, but if you registered, can't you vote at the regular polls? Or take your absentee ballot in on election day to the polling place?


That would work great, except that I go to school in Texas. My home state is Pennsylvania, where I'm registered. I'm not willing to pay $400 in gas and skip class/work on monday and tuesday in order to vote.

Many people do not vote because it'd be endorsing the system or the candidates. Candidates use the voting as justification for their actions and positions. What if only a minority voted? Would that not be saying something about this system?

Non-voters have every right to complain when the their rights are being infringed on by this political system.

....which is exactly why people shouldn't be forced to vote.

[BillyTheMountain]

That would work great, except that I go to school in Texas. My home state is Pennsylvania, where I'm registered. I'm not willing to pay $400 in gas and skip class/work on monday and tuesday in order to vote.



....which is exactly why people shouldn't be forced to vote.

You should have mailed in your absentee ballot! Pennsylvania needs Obama supporters!!

If the world could vote, Obama would win!!

We have a 3 hour radio show of pro-Obama by people around the world, Germany, Africa, Jamaica, Spanish songs, Louisiana.

Does anyone have even ONE song for McCain?
And Jerrick, no one is voting for Obama because he is Black, We've had Black candidates before, and people don't vote for someone because they're Black!

Bush violates civil rights, and McCain will continue that.

Vote. Hope.
Billy

[Jerrick]

Not necessarily! The law varies state to state, some allow you to register at the polls. If that applies to you, then register tomorrow or Tuesday, and vote!

Jerrick, I understand what you mean about things not affecting you the last 8 years... I was the same way the first time I could vote (missed the absentee ballot deadline). Too bad yer not my age... We could use ya!

Like I said, maybe next election. :D

Its going to be interesting to see who does win, and then the following years. Im kinda excited to watch it unfold. Im gonna look up about the assassination attempt rumor I heard. See what that is all about.

Happy voting. This thread should be made into a poll. haha.

[saskatchewanian]

Many people do not vote because it'd be endorsing the system or the candidates. Candidates use the voting as justification for their actions and positions. What if only a minority voted? Would that not be saying something about this system?

Non-voters have every right to complain when the their rights are being infringed on by this political system.

This is a good point, never really thought about it that way much. Talking about the amarican political system, I keep hearing the term "write in candidate." This gives the impression that the ballots have three options, the republican candidate, the democrat candidate and a fill in the blank.

I have been told that amaricans actually have a multi-party system similar to canada but only the republicans and democrats ever get people elected. If there are multiple candidates per riding but you have to write in the candidate if they are not from one of the two main parties that gives them a severe handicap which translates to unfair representation. If this is indeed the case I think boycotting the election if you don't believe in either of the two main parties a legitimate option.

Up here all candidates have equal representation on a ballet, with most constituencies having at least 4 candidates running and often 5 or 6 it is quite easy to find someone that you agree with to receive your vote.

Of-course this leads to the higher probability of a minority government, heck we even elected an independent this time.

So if anyone could clear up for us non-amaricans why candidates other than from the two main parties are called write ins that would be great.

[ThisGuyIKnow]

The options on the ballot vary by state because each state has different procedures for how to get on the ballot. But my California Ballot has 6 options for president.

Barr/Root - Libertarian
McCain/Palin - Republican
McKinney/Clememente - Green
Keyes/Drake - American Independent
Nader/Gonzalez - Peace and Freedom
Obama/Biden - Democratic

Any other candidate may be written in at the polling place via other procedures that vary by state.

So it's not a matter of only the 2 major parties being options on the ballot. There is no official government action that limits the election to only 2 parties. It's just a matter of campaigning and whatnot that make it seem like there are only 2 sets of candidates.

[SqueakyOnion]

You should have mailed in your absentee ballot! Pennsylvania needs Obama supporters!!


I would have if I could have. I received my ballot in the mail AFTER it was due.

I met the voter registration deadlines, along with the absentee ballot request form deadlines. I was unable to vote. Is this voter discrimination against absentee ballot voters?! :p


And Jerrick, no one is voting for Obama because he is Black, We've had Black candidates before, and people don't vote for someone because they're Black!

On the contrary, I just saved an article from my university's newspaper that asked random people who their candidate was and why they were voting. One (black) girl said "He's change we can believe in! He's also black, and I can relate to that, because I'm black too" (as if her picture didn't give it away).


Billy, I feel like you may have been trying to stir up controversy, and that I may have walked right into that one.

[napalm]

wow jerrick- if you can't find anything about the two different directions that the main candidates are proposing for the US, i would hate to see the situation in the US and the world is in when you would be compelled to vote.

Americans need to realise the global impact of their country and its governance. I almost feel that for every american that does not vote, the opportunity should be given to an individual that constitues a country with whom it is an ally to take their place.

Here in Oz we have mandatory voting. It does have some benefits. For example consider the millions of dollars poured into campaigns on election day trying to 'get out the vote'. All that could be spent on more worthwhile endevours if it was expected that people would turn up to polling booths. People like jerrick could still show their apathy to the situation by casting a donkey vote (while you are forced to turn up to a voting booth, you are not needed to actually fill out a ballot). Plus your country would not stink of hypocracy in millitarily forcing democracy overseas while not practicing it at home.

a quote comes to mind "the best lack all conviction, and the worst are full of passionate intensity". I am going to say that i hope for your (america's) and the worlds sake that Obama gets ellected. My reasoning for this is not some lefty drivel about how great he is but sheer terror at the prospects of another republican term in office. Especially where McCain uses the prospect of nuclear war to terrorise voters into his party lines- yet simultaneously making the rest of the international community uneasy. This compunded by an obvious lack of judgement for his choice of VP (who is a four time cancer patients heartbeat away from presidency) who knows perhaps even less about politics than the least approved US president in the history of public opinion polls, and has recenty being antagonistic towards Russia...

Voting for the lesser of two evils is the only option when your non-participation will have no effect on the way the system works or functions.

rant over-
get out and vote (if you need some incentive make it part of a unicycle ride,
mark

[johnfoss]

Ok, so im 19, and not voting, so that makes me lazy? ... Does it mean, that maybe these last 8 year have not affected me in anyway... Yes, sounds like you're making a good case for lazy. Or selfish, that's fine too. How do you know how you were affected over the last 8 years? How your life might have been different? nobody can be sure so you can't say it wasn't.
...I dont like the war, but im not going to be the one to help pull people away from what they believe in. {in this case, his friends in the military who are enjoying the war}Okay, in that case, don't vote. Your logic here seems to be based on wanting the war to continue unitl your friends "age out" of the military.
I do not need a change. I am perfectly happy with everything right now.According to the polls, by not voting you are choosing not to vote *against* this change you speak of.
The US isnt on fire.Good thing. Because if/when it is on fire it's too late to vote. Got to vote in elections, not between them when stuff happens.
And I dont feel greatly towards any of the runners, so thats why its going to take something more directed to me to move me this time around.Hey, that just clicked with me. All those people in the polls who still say they're undecided. Maybe it's because they feel as you do in all this. If asked by poller, would you say undecided if it was a choice between that and a list of candidate names? Not sure if the polls usually have an option for "don't plan to vote".
Im not going to be part of the solution, and im not going to be part of the problem.That remains to be seen. Though we don't know what would have happened differently with different presidents, it's easy for me to think that voting for W., especially on the second go-round, made people part of the problem.
I dislike the fact that a lot of votes to Obama are because he is black.Are there any statistics on that, or do you just have a feeling? Someone being black and saying they understand what that means is not a vote based just on color. Though I imagine many people are not complex in their reasoning (on either side), certainly some are stopping at color (on both sides). Others base their choice on abortion or other single issues that are important to them.
When Hilary was running big time, quite a few people were going to vote for her just cause she was a woman.Then one would have expected droves of them to have switched over to McCain/Palin. I don't think that happened.

[johnfoss]

I met the voter registration deadlines, along with the absentee ballot request form deadlines. I was unable to vote. Is this voter discrimination against absentee ballot voters?! :pProbably not, but you may still be allowed to vote in Texas. I just heard something on TV that says laws were changed to allow people to vote where their college is, and not necessarily in their home precinct. Not sure if this goes for different states though. If you really care, try going to the polls tomorrow and finding out. Based on what I know of the rules in CA (for if you lost your mail-in ballot), you would get to cast a provisional ballot. It's provisional until they make sure you didn't already vote with the other ballot. This may or may not work with two different states though.

[Jerrick]

Nah.

I dont think youll understand where I am coming from.

[mornish]

Just for the californians out there who might care, here is how I'd vote on the different Props. If I was old enough to actually vote, I wouldn't vote for a president. I favor Obama over Mccain, but I don't especially like either of them, and I don't like the idea of voting for the lesser evil.

Prop 1: Yes
Prop 2: Yes
Prop 3: Yes
Prop 4: No
Prop 5: Yes (<-- Although I haven't researched this one as much as the others)
Prop 6: Yes
Prop 7: No
Prop 8: No
Prop 9: Yes (<-- Although I haven't researched this one as much as the others)
Prop 10: Yes
Prop 11: No (<-- Although I haven't researched this one as much as the others)
Prop 12: No

[Jerrick]

Just for the californians out there who might care, here is how I'd vote on the different Props. If I was old enough to actually vote, I wouldn't vote for a president. I favor Obama over Mccain, but I don't especially like either of them, and I don't like the idea of voting for the lesser evil.

Prop 1: Yes
Prop 2: Yes
Prop 3: Yes
Prop 4: No
Prop 5: Yes (<-- Although I haven't researched this one as much as the others)
Prop 6: Yes
Prop 7: No
Prop 8: No
Prop 9: Yes (<-- Although I haven't researched this one as much as the others)
Prop 10: Yes
Prop 11: No (<-- Although I haven't researched this one as much as the others)
Prop 12: No


Ive only heard much about prop 2 and 8. Id vote yes on 2 and no on 8. I think there are going to be more yes on 8 than nos though... We'll see.

Ill go look at the other props.

[mornish]

I'll be really depressed if Prop 8 passes, especially because of how much false crap the church has been spewing out for it.

[Gilby]

Ive only heard much about prop 2 and 8. Id vote yes on 2 and no on 8.

Passing Prop 2 is going to result in most animal farming being taken out of California, though the fine for violation of this is quite low. How do you jail a corporation anyways?

[GILD]

So when there is something that will cause a large impact on my personal life and the life of my family, then I will vote

Can you say 'Niemoller'.

Now go vote.

[Buretto]

So when there is something that will cause a large impact on my personal life and the life of my family, then I will vote

Most naïve statement of 2008?

[uni57]

With a great sense of satisfaction, I cast my vote at 7 AM today. Somehow it made me feel good.

I voted for president. Then I voted for the Congressional candidates of the same party so my president has as much support as possible.

I left all the local candidates blank, because I didn't know anything about them. I didn't want to vote out a good person by simply voting the party line. Somehow, I think that party affiliation matters less at the local level. Why do I think that? In Washington, I want Congess to be dominated by the same party as the president I've voted for. But at the local county and city level, I don't think that's a concern. At the local level, we have real people dealing with real issues (party affiliation matters less when deciding whether to install that traffic light at a dangerous intersection). I can't explain my rationale. I'm not even sure it's valid. Anyway, not having done my homework, I didn't vote for the local candidates.

[JJuggle]

With a great sense of satisfaction, I cast my vote at 7 AM today. Somehow it made me feel good.

I voted for president. Then I voted for the Congressional candidates of the same party so my president has as much support as possible.

I left all the local candidates blank..Anyway, not having done my homework, I didn't vote for the local candidates.
Good for you!!!

I vote a little later and incredibly we have an independent running for our town council who I actually like and will be voting for.

I must confess that since the democratic incumbents for House and Senate are shoe-ins in my district and state, I usually vote for the most left leaning nutjob third party candidate available on the ballot. For Senate there's a Socialist Worker's Party candidate.

[uni57]

Good for you!!!Thank you. I, too, find it quite amazing that I was able to get up at 6 AM.

[JJuggle]

Thank you. I, too, find it quite amazing that I was able to get up at 6 AM.
In that I'm not sympathetic. On weekdays I am normally up no later than 5:30 am.

[Zzagg]

Though I do agreee that voting is really important and the only way for us to be "part of" our respective governments, I think preaching for voting is as efficient toward people who don't vote as preaching for "unicycle for christ" toward a bunch of atheists.
As it as already been said, people have the right NOT to vote too, and I don't think being pedant or "moralisator" (:confused:) will actually encourage people to vote.
Sorry John, I think this thread needed to be initiated but perhaps in a more diplomatic way.

BTW there are some people who don't believe in Democracy (I capitalized because I sometimes think this word is like the magic hat: you can make people do anything in its name, including the worst). I actually think that democracy is the best system we have AT THAT TIME but I respect people who don't vote as long as they act / fight in a way or another to try and change things.

[uni57]

In that I'm not sympathetic. On weekdays I am normally up no later than 5:30 am.My job has flex hours (sort of). I've had sleep issues for quite some time; so until recently, I had been getting up late.

To stay on topic, the polls opened at 6 AM where I live. I had hoped to get there right when they opened (just for the fun of it), but I couldn't quite manage the waking up part of that task.

[UniBrier]

My county is now 100% mail in ballot, and I used the absentee/mail in for many years prior as work related travel could take me out of town on short notice before Election Day.

The ballot sat around for a couple weeks before I finally voted on Friday and dropped it off at a community drop center.

Anybody else have 100% mail in? How about other early voting opportunities?

[BluntRM]

Got spare time for US democracy?

Join the Obama ground team in your area! (http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/statepages)


It's raining and I'm surrounded by people who've been up since 4am. Make some calls on your lunch break; Talk to your neighbors; Knock on some doors. You don't have to affiliate with the campaign to make a difference. Stand on your favorite street corner and recite your most beloved conspiratorial theories; Shout at bumper stickers until they agree with you. It's a good day for democracy.

[Gilby]

Coke or Pepsi. So hard to decide. :rolleyes:

[BluntRM]

Election update:

Starbucks is providing free coffee to people who've voted; and it's horrible.

[mornish]

Election update:

Starbucks is providing free coffee to people who've voted; and it's horrible.

I was under the impression that it was free coffee to anyone, maybe I won't head over there after school now.

[BluntRM]

I was under the impression that it was free coffee to anyone, maybe I won't head over there after school now.

I don't think they'll prompt you for evidence, but then I wouldn't encourage election day coffee fraud. Echo: The coffee is horrible.

[Tak]

Does anyone have even ONE song for McCain?
YouTube - It's Raining McCain: SLAYER STYLE

[Jerrick]

Election update:

Starbucks is providing free coffee to people who've voted; and it's horrible.


Ugh. Glad I missed that.

And Gilby. Mt. Dew. =p

This thread was fun. I liked your post Zzagg. Just wish more people could view it like that. But oh well, thats how these forums how, just look at all the Religous threads.

[peleschramm]

Election update:

Starbucks is providing free coffee to people who've voted; and it's horrible.

How do they know who voted or not? Isn't it private?

[habbywall]

How do they know who voted or not? Isn't it private?

It is a private ballot, meaning you don't have to tell anyone who you voted for, but wether you vote or not is not really a big deal. Correct me if I'm wrong Gilby, that's the way I've always been told.
Either way they can't force you to tell wether you voted or not and tell it truthfully but they can not give you coffee for free if they choose.

I favor Obama over Mccain, but I don't especially like either of them, and I don't like the idea of voting for the lesser evil.


This Ignorant statement is what scares me about America.

[UniBrier]

I was under the impression that it was free coffee to anyone, maybe I won't head over there after school now.Once Starbucks found out that offering free coffee to voters was illegal they revised the offer (http://www.kirotv.com/news/17885256/detail.html)to free coffee for anyone who asks today.

Of course, the barista I asked this morning had no idea about the change and still though it was only for voters...

[Gilby]

I wouldn't encourage election day coffee fraud.
Of course, you can only vote for free stuff. Because government taking from one and giving to another is not fraud. :rolleyes:

[johnfoss]

Prop 11: No (<-- Although I haven't researched this one as much as the others)I think you missed the boat on that one, but as you said, you didn't research it. To me it was one of the easy ones like Prop 8. Easy in terms of it's a real simple proposal, while many of the others are nearly impossible to decipher without being a lawyer.

Anyway, this thread is about voting, and not about which way to vote so good for you that you took an interest.

As for Prop 8, based on what I heard yesterday (radio or TV), both sides spent unprecedented amounts of money on it, to the tune of about $73 million though I'm not sure if that was each, or total. They said it was the highest-funded ballot proposition in US history!

Passing Prop 2 is going to result in most animal farming being taken out of California...Spoken as if it's a fact, rather than what only one side is predicting. As it's being watched nationally, Prop 2 (about how to care for chickens, veal and pork) could be a watershed decision that would spread to other states. As it is, the opposite side of the issue says it would raise the price of eggs by a penny each. Oh no!

Though I do agreee that voting is really important and the only way for us to be "part of" our respective governments, I think preaching for voting is as efficient toward people who don't vote as preaching for "unicycle for christ" toward a bunch of atheists. Sorry John, I think this thread needed to be initiated but perhaps in a more diplomatic way.You may be right about that, and I perhaps should have been less heavy-handed toward the apathetic non-voters. Also I don't mean to give Jerrick a hard time specifically, it's just that he's the only one that spoke up for the not-voting crowd. My responses are general ones, and not just for him. In fact, "don't care" is perhaps the most valid reason to not vote, when it might be better not to cast one if you don't have an opinion. Still though, I feel people who live in countries where they don't get to vote would find it a bit lame to not care about such things.

We Americans need to remember what we do here doesn't just affect us. The whole world watches our elections and gets affected by what we do as a nation in many ways.
I actually think that democracy is the best system we have AT THAT TIME but I respect people who don't vote as long as they act / fight in a way or another to try and change things.I'm not sure how France works, but the USA is a Democratic Republic, which is a mix of the two basic methods. Mostly we don't get to vote on stuff, but rely on our representatives to be experts on the issues and vote in our place. Which is a whole different issue so I'm not going to go there...

Even in the presidential race, we vote indirectly. Each state tallies its votes, and the winner gets *all* the electoral votes for that state. Then the electoral votes are totaled, and whoever gets the most, as long as it's at least 270, is the winner. It's an imperfect system, but I guess it allows each individual state to have a little more of an impact. But it must also suck to be a Democrat, for instance, in a state that always ends up with a higher Republican total (a red state). That's why they talk about certain battleground states, where the gap between the two major candidates is very small, possibly within the margin of error in the polling. Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio are three of the biggies...

Starbucks:
I think it depends on the state, but apparently in CA you can't give out free stuff to some people and not others, without a coupon or some other documentation. No coupon required? Then you have to give it to everybody. Something like that. Yes, the coffee is horrible. I would say that anyway; I just hate coffee. :)

[peleschramm]

Vote or die Mofo!

[saskatchewanian]

Vote or die Mofo! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-vCyQRBEwU&feature=related)

:D:D:D what can I say, South Park can be brilliant some times :)

[Gilby]

Spoken as if it's a fact, rather than what only one side is predicting. As it's being watched nationally, Prop 2 (about how to care for chickens, veal and pork) could be a watershed decision that would spread to other states
Yes, it is a fact. Simple economics. If it's cheaper to do some activity in another place, that's where it will gravitate towards. I wasn't arguing for or against the Prop. Would it spread to other states/countries? Maybe. But the immediate effect is that it will drive that industry elsewhere.

[johnfoss]

If it's cheaper to do some activity in another place, that's where it will gravitate towards.That's why I get all my toothpaste and children's toys from China. :D

But yes, you've described the Wal Mart business model, and some people will always buy the cheapest. We'll have to see how it shakes out...

[Gilby]

but wether you vote or not is not really a big deal. Correct me if I'm wrong Gilby, that's the way I've always been told.

OK, voting matters. As this thread points out, if you don't vote, you will be ridiculed.

The statistics however show that you have a greater chance of dying in a crash on your way to the polls than your vote has of actually changing the outcome of the election.

The interesting correlation is that the more people that vote, the bigger government gets. So, maybe your vote counts more for that, in that any vote is a vote for more government. Democracies historically have gotten away with more than tyrants do, simply because they can claim to have the mandate of the people and the people believe it.

For any of you that voted for a candidate because they claim to provide you certain services from the government, such as health care or education, then you committed an act of theft.

[unidude55]

Vote for nader!

dont be a hater vote for nader

[Gilby]

That's why I get all my toothpaste and children's toys from China. :DIf it was the same kwality, then you probably would.

If the Prop passes, maybe you can join in the slaughter party (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5082040.ece).

[Jerrick]

Gilby for prez. =p

Just got home, how is the voting going along?

[hobo_chuck]

Gilby for prez. =p

Just got home, how is the voting going along?

Jerrick, quick, go write in Mr. Gilbertson!

[BillyTheMountain]

How do they know who voted or not? Isn't it private?

Some places give out "I voted" stickers.

[dudewithasock]

Some places give out "I voted" stickers.

My friend didn't get one, so later she snuck into the voting area and took one.

It seems that the American people now have to resort to law-breaking to uphold the Constitution. What is this country coming to?!

[habbywall]

I got two. I was having problems putting my ballot into the machine and it was starting to get busy so it was all they could do to get rid of me. It probably didn't help I was almost freely showing them my ballot, I'm pretty sure I could sue them if they tried to look at my ballot.

[critter]

Coke or Pepsi. So hard to decide. :rolleyes:
No brainer...... Pepsi

[ridingwithscissors]

anyone tried to edit a post recently?

yes, this is relevant :cool:

EDIT hmmm. seems to be gone now. oh well

[GILD]

It seems that the American people now have to resort to law-breaking to uphold the Constitution. What is this country coming to?!
Uphold the constitution or get free coffee?

Priotities people. priorities.

EDIT: Why do you ask?

[uni57]

I voted just to get the free coffee.

[johnfoss]

Well, the voting's over, so this thread can be done. The people who participated in the process can feel like they're involved, even if their candidate did not win. Those who ridicule the system and perhaps don't even vote because they think it's a waste, continue to not be part of a solution.

In other words, there have been many elections where I didn't like either candidate and would have preferred the shake-up if one of the third-party candidates could win. But none of them have had a chance in my lifetime. Someday, I hope, but not this year again. So this year, I used my one vote to have an effect on the outcome.

In this case, maybe for the first time since I've been eligible to vote, I liked the guy I voted for better than all the other candidates I'd heard of. I think there is great potential for this country to do good things. Now to find out if I was right...

[Gilby]

Those who ridicule the system and perhaps don't even vote because they think it's a waste, continue to not be part of a solution. You seem to imply this ridiculous idea that voting is the only solution. If it even provides a solution at all.

Solutions ultimately come from the grassroots, not from the people already in charge, the ones who make the laws which have restricted the possibility of actual candidates with real solutions from being on the ballot and being heard. We get more of the same from the democrat/republican monopoly who have very little difference.

When there is nobody worthy of a vote, not voting is more meaningful than to go vote for someone you don't want. Why give them your mandate?

Grassroots involvement is part of the solution. Voting is not.

[kevinalexandersmith]

You seem to imply this ridiculous idea that voting is the only solution. If it even provides a solution at all.

Solutions ultimately come from the grassroots, not from the people already in charge, the ones who make the laws which have restricted the possibility of actual candidates with real solutions from being on the ballot and being heard. We get more of the same from the democrat/republican monopoly who have very little difference.

When there is nobody worthy of a vote, not voting is more meaningful than to go vote for someone you don't want. Why give them your mandate?

Grassroots involvement is part of the solution. Voting is not.I feel like my third party vote is better than not voting. I worked hard to find someone I could agree with. I gave no mandate to the democratic/republican monopoly. Sadly only about 1.5 million of us thought voting “other” was a statement worth making.

Your right voting isn't the only possible solution. Historically most dramatic change comes thru conflict, but I still have hope we can turn it around before it gets much worse. Maybe 4 years of the same old crap from one who promised change will wake up the sheeple.

[saskatchewanian]

Congrats John you did it!

Best turnout ever (numbers wise, not percent wise) for a US election! interestingly following the worst turnout ever for a Canadian general election. You did indeed show us up for once in the voting department (if only by a smidgen)

[johnfoss]

Ha. I don't know if anybody voted because of this thread, but my wife and I helped several people get registered and vote; some of whom had never voted before.

Jacquie also knows a (black) man who once told her "You want me to vote? I'll vote when there's a black man running for president." He voted too.

[harper]

Well, the voting's over, so this thread can be done.

...bump...

[GILD]

...bump...

Oh no, not another 'Ne'er Say Die' thread?

[harper]

Well, the voting's over, so this thread can be done.

...bump...

[harper]

Oh no, not another 'Ne'er Say Die' thread?

...bump...bump...was that an opossum?

[maestro8]

...bump...

Where's a thread killer when you need him?

[harper]

Where's a thread killer when you need him?

...bump...bump...dang. That was Billy.

[kevinalexandersmith]

...bump...bump...dang. That was Billy.I hope you didn't damage a perfectly good Uni hitting Billy.:eek:
;):p

[hobo_chuck]

I hope you didn't damage a perfectly good Uni hitting Billy.:eek:
;):p

Don't worry. Billy will break long before the uni will.

Bumpity bump.

[Gilby]

YouTube - Voting is for Slaves

[SHAY_CAM]

YouTube - Voting is for Slaves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlIFF6sz67s)

More and more in everyone of these political topics I agree with you more and more.

[hobo_chuck]

768

[BillyTheMountain]

Sadly only about 1.5 million of us thought voting “other” was a statement worth making.

Now would you admit you were wrong?