The Vegetarian Appreciation Thread!

[unicycledood]

So umm yeah, I'm vegetarian. Have been for about 5 years. I've recently become more involved with animals rights and things of the sort... Just wondering if there are any other vegetarian unicyclists around. :D:D:D

Heres a pretty "hip" site that some of your youngsters may want to check out. www.peta2.com

[SqueakyOnion]

I browsed that site for a little, reading the forums, and it sounded like a lot of vegetarians were being crucified by vegans for not being making the jump to being vegan. Jeez. Turns me off even more from even trying to ever be vegan or veg.

Maybe I should tell them that. Or maybe I dont really care.

[RaikageNinja]

Yeah dude, I've been vegetarian for about 6 months. Mainly because a vegetarian diet is healthier and I've just never liked meat all that much.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

I browsed that site for a little, reading the forums, and it sounded like a lot of vegetarians were being crucified by vegans for not being making the jump to being vegan. Jeez. Turns me off even more from even trying to ever be vegan or veg.

Maybe I should tell them that. Or maybe I dont really care.
awww c'mon. There's crappy veggies, vegans and omnivours. The majority of most of them are really quite nice.

I'm veggie. I also only eat organic dairy products where the animals are quite well taken care of.
I've been veggie for 6 years or something.

[uni57]

I'm a carnivore. Suffice it to say that I have no plans of changing (and I hope this thread doesn't turn into yet another debate). But if you don't mind this meat-eater participating in the discussion, I'd love to hear people's stories. So --

Given that*...

- it's probably not the diet you started out with
- it's an extreme diet (eliminating an entire food group)
- there are concerns about getting enough of certain nutrients

... why did you switch to vegetarianism?

... how much research did you do before switching?

... do you feel better on this diet? Or the same?

... do you ever miss meat (like bacon)? I know I would.



* - These are not meant to be judgmental. I think it's extremely fair and reasonable to make these three claims. I'm mainly pointing out that deciding to switch to vegetarianism shouldn't have been taken lightly (and probably wasn't).

[kington99]

I'm not a vegeterian, but i apprecite vegeterians. However, I really do not apprecite the violation of human rights in the name of animal rights, as unfortunately happens here with some regularity at the moment.

[1-wheeled-grape]

Someone told me to be a vegetarian once, saying its healthier than what you eat now. But i like meat too much. What I dont get is why vegetarian "meat", I cant remamber what its called, but why does it look like meat (sausages and burgers) when they don't want to eat meat? It just sounds rather strange to me.

Any way i have no intention of becoming a vegitarian, I mean if were not supposed to eat meat, why does it taste so good?

[jamessd]

Someone told me to be a vegetarian once, saying its healthier than what you eat now. But i like meat too much. What I dont get is why vegetarian "meat", I cant remamber what its called, but why does it look like meat (sausages and burgers) when they don't want to eat meat? It just sounds rather strange to me.

Any way i have no intention of becoming a vegitarian, I mean if were not supposed to eat meat, why does it taste so good?
Quorn.

[unicycledood]

I'm a carnivore. Suffice it to say that I have no plans of changing (and I hope this thread doesn't turn into yet another debate). But if you don't mind this meat-eater participating in the discussion, I'd love to hear people's stories. So --

Given that*...

- it's probably not the diet you started out with
- it's an extreme diet (eliminating an entire food group)
- there are concerns about getting enough of certain nutrients

... why did you switch to vegetarianism?

... how much research did you do before switching?

... do you feel better on this diet? Or the same?

... do you ever miss meat (like bacon)? I know I would.



* - These are not meant to be judgmental. I think it's extremely fair and reasonable to make these three claims. I'm mainly pointing out that deciding to switch to vegetarianism shouldn't have been taken lightly (and probably wasn't).


Your a carnivor? You ONLY eat meat? I don't wanna be a smartass but I think you mean your an omnivour.

I became a vegetarian because I simply love animals.

I did absolutely no researching before hand, it just felt right.

I feel exactly the same on this diet. Basically because It was so long ago that I ate meat, and I've changed in so many ways. My diets pretty shit really, lots of junk :P


There are only nutrient concerns if your a freaking idiot. All my fellow veggies will agree with me there...

And no I don't miss meat. But, I do miss how easy it is, fast food etc. Its a real hassle sometimes, but just knowing you have the will power to beat something like that is freakin sweet.

[kington99]

Quorn.

...is more expensive than even pretty high quality real meat. There are far superiour meat alternatives out there, my current favourite is textured vegetable protein made from dried defatted soya beans. Incredibly cheap (50p for equivalent of 800g of meat), infinite shelf life, makes a better bolognaise than cheap meat.

Also many of the more processed meat alternatives (fake sausgaes et al) have an awful lot of salt in them.

[unicycledood]

I browsed that site for a little, reading the forums, and it sounded like a lot of vegetarians were being crucified by vegans for not being making the jump to being vegan. Jeez. Turns me off even more from even trying to ever be vegan or veg.

Maybe I should tell them that. Or maybe I dont really care.

I know what you mean. Its quite a pain really. I'm not very comfortable around vegans because I think their always trying to turn me...

I live on a farm and only eat dairy products that I have researched or that are local.

I don't see the need to be vegan.

[unicycledood]

Someone told me to be a vegetarian once, saying its healthier than what you eat now. But i like meat too much. What I dont get is why vegetarian "meat", I cant remamber what its called, but why does it look like meat (sausages and burgers) when they don't want to eat meat? It just sounds rather strange to me.

Any way i have no intention of becoming a vegitarian, I mean if were not supposed to eat meat, why does it taste so good?

I've tried these "meat subsitutes". Their incredabley stupid. This is for the fake vegetarians, or people that are having trouble adjusting.

I simpley can't bring myself to eat things that are made to look, smell and/or taste like meat. It truely makes me sick haha.


Oh yeah, I agree that meat tastes friggin awesome. But its the guilt that kills me. Thats why I gave it up. Unlike the cavemen, we're smart enough to find alternatives.

[sp4rky-m4rky]

I dont think I will ever leave meat and become even a vegitarian. I have never understood why people become vegitarians and vegans. Maybe you could enlighten me....

[unicycledood]

I dont think I will ever leave meat and become even a vegitarian. I have never understood why people become vegitarians and vegans. Maybe you could enlighten me....


I guess its just a personal thing eh? I'm the youngest child in my family. And apparently studies show that the youngest child is often given household chores such as feeding/cleaning the pets etc.

I've always been close to my pets.

One day my family moved from the city onto a farm, my mother decided we'd become "real farmers" and attempt to live off the land. We eventually got some livestock that we hand fed and raised from their birth. And of course, I was young, I named every single one of them and became attatched. Then mother decided it'd be a great idea to eat one of them. And I basically just decided right then and there that I'd become a vegetarian and save these animals lives.

And ummm yeah... Thats why FOR ME, I think its just a personal thing.

[yoopers]

... do you ever miss meat (like bacon)? I know I would.
What? There's meat in bacon? I never knew that. I'll have to look more closely next time.

[unicycledood]

Yeah I noticed theres already a vegetarian thread. I don't think it matters :P the more the merrier! hah.

[vanpaun]

i can't stand people who say, one vegetarian won't make a difference, because suply and demand don't exist. Nutrition issues, a falsehood probabaly created by the meat industry, except if your vegan, b12.

[yoopers]

i can't stand people who say, one vegetarian won't make a difference, because suply and demand don't exist. Nutrition issues, a falsehood probabaly created by the meat industry, except if your vegan, b12.
Congrats, Mr. Paun. You just successfully crashed and burned a thread of gentle discussion by bringing in hate (can't stand people), politics (supply and demand don't exist), and conspiracy (created falshood).

[unibikeling]

so sorry to come late into this thread :eek:

Haha yeah, Ive been veggie for like... 2 weeks now, 1 and 1/2 probably. I'm still struggling a little, but i dont really have craving for meat. I didnt even really want mini corn dogs or chicken nuggets at lunch yestarday (that days school lunch). I looked at one of the chicken nuggets, saw an unbreaded part, and just thought 'okay i'm not gonna eat that'. Right now, and until i get some vitamin suppliments, i'm eating very poorly. I need to shape up my diet, and get the suppliments. I also really want to go vegan this summer.

my thought: nothing should be treated that way.

my cause: animal rights

oh btw, after reading more in this thread, if you didnt know. Jeremy is veggie.

[Adder172]

Your a carnivor? You ONLY eat meat? I don't wanna be a smartass but I think you mean your an omnivour.

I became a vegetarian because I simply love animals.

I did absolutely no researching before hand, it just felt right.

I feel exactly the same on this diet. Basically because It was so long ago that I ate meat, and I've changed in so many ways. My diets pretty shit really, lots of junk :P


There are only nutrient concerns if your a freaking idiot. All my fellow veggies will agree with me there...

And no I don't miss meat. But, I do miss how easy it is, fast food etc. Its a real hassle sometimes, but just knowing you have the will power to beat something like that is freakin sweet.

i am a veggie unicyclist as well and i entierly agree ^ (with the above)

[Adder172]

i would like to add to my last post that i have been veggie for just under 5 years and do not miss meat at all.

:mad: the people i hate are people who eat fish but still claim their a veggie:mad:

[yoopers]

I simply love animals.
I love animals, too.

[kington99]

:mad: the people i hate are people who eat fish but still claim their a veggie:mad:

surely you'd just be glad that they're saving animals cruelty and death? or is it that you're annoyed that someone can get in to your social group too easily, that they're somehow devaluing your social status?

[1-wheeled-grape]

I love animals, too.
I love animals too, but they're farmed for a reason.

[siafirede]

My brother got married 2 weeks ago and the entire wedding was vegan. By that I mean that everything served there was organic and vegan, even the wedding cake. I believe there were some vegan related vows as well.

All of the food was great.

[UniBrier]

Here's something to appreciate: Vegetarians leave more meat for the rest of us to eat!

[bungalistic]

Here's something to appreciate: Vegetarians leave more meat for the rest of us to eat!

Ha ha I like that way of looking at it.

I lived with some veggies for a year and in some way I guess it effected me as I eat far less meat these days, mostly as I can't afford to buy both meat and veg and I try and get my 5 portions thing in every day, but you can make some amazing things without a huge slab of meat.

I would never turn though, I love a good bacon buttie more than anything else.

I have a question for any female veggies out there too.

If you were pregnant and your craving was for meat, which some folk say cravings come from your body needing certain nutrients etc, would you eat meat?

[harper]

I appreciate vegetarians...they taste great.

[JJuggle]

I appreciate vegetarians...they taste great.
Greg, that was so funny soy milk and bean sprouts shot out my nose.

[SqueakyOnion]

:mad: the people i hate are people who eat fish but still claim their a veggie:mad:

People like you make me want to not even ever try to be veg or vegan.

I have a friend who has been veg for at least 6 years. Last I checked, she still ate fish. Her reasoning is that red meat animals are cooped up their whole lives, stuffed in small overcrowded cages and whatnot. They walk around in their own excrement and trample/peck each other.

Fish on the other hand, live freely, swimming in the ocean. Their lives abruptly end when they are caught. The difference, in her eyes, lies in the treatment of the animal BEFORE it is killed to be eaten.

I've toyed with the idea of not eating meat, but I think what it really comes down to is that meat is an inexpensive form of nutrition. Although its true that our bodies do no require meat and that an overconsumption can have negative health effects, meat eaten in moderation has positive health benefits.

[Buddy]

I've tried these "meat substitutes". They're incredibly stupid. They are for the fake vegetarians, or people that are having trouble adjusting.


As a vegetarian for my entire life (since birth, parents are vegetarian too), I can tell you that meat substitutes are not for fake vegetarians or people who are having trouble adjusting. Meat substitutes are for protein and if they were shaped any different, you'd probably never want to touch as it didn't even look like food.

Some people don't like them (whether it's your case about not liking the shape or just flavor in general) while some people do and make sure they are in their diet.

[JJuggle]

I can tell you that meat substitutes are not for fake vegetarians or people who are having trouble adjusting. Meat substitutes are for protein
They are mighty tasty too. Great chili, sloppy joes, tacos, casseroles, BLTs, pasta sauces, and many other delights can be made from them.

[UniBrier]

Fish on the other hand, live freely, swimming in the ocean. Their lives abruptly end when they are caught. The difference, in her eyes, lies in the treatment of the animal BEFORE it is killed to be eaten.Right, how many other animals do you pierce with a sharp hook, make them struggle to exhaustion, then suffocate them to death before you eat them?

[yoopers]

Right, how many other animals do you pierce with a sharp hook, make them struggle to exhaustion, then suffocate them to death before you eat them?
Steve, those are only the fish in the wild. The ones being bred in fish farms, in tight quarters, which constantly have to fight for space and survival don't get pierced with sharp hooks.

[Kyle_Destroyer]

peta = nazis.

I'll respect vegetarians and vegans, but not peta members.

[JJuggle]

peta = nazis.
Harsh.

I'll respect vegetarians and vegans, but not peta members.
Can you respect some PETA members who may believe in the overall principles but who also disagree on some specifics? Or more to the point, do you consider this a black and white issue with no room for any flexibility?

[vanpaun]

how did I bring hate to this thread? How many vegetarians out there are tired of the countless bombardment of made up facts, desert islands with chickens, and not accepting anothers religion?? (not that vegetarianism is my religion, but i i'm more faithful

[uni57]

Your a carnivor? You ONLY eat meat? I don't wanna be a smartass but I think you mean your an omnivour.Oops. Slip of the tongue. Although I do eat a LOT of meat and animal fat, I am indeed an omnivore.

[vanpaun]

than i am to judaism. All I said is I can't stand, not i hate, or I want to kill. yoopers, are you a vegetarian? And the point made 'you can't get enough protien' is a load of $#!%. Vegetarian who eat fish are pisceo vegetarian, and should be reffered to so.

[vanpaun]

vegetarians who eat poultry aren't vegetarian, and vegetarian who eat beef have a hard time fitting in, so they make a tittle for themselves to feel secure.

[yoopers]

desert islands with chickens
Not sure if I missed something here or not, but what is a desert island with chickens? Could it be a dessert island of chickens? Dessert of fried chicken sounds mighty fine to me.
yoopers, are you a vegetarian?
See above comment.
so they make a tittle
to go along with their jot.

[dudewithasock]

vegetarians who eat poultry aren't vegetarian, and vegetarian who eat beef have a hard time fitting in, so they make a tittle for themselves to feel secure.

What the heck are you even talking about? No one who eats beef or poultry is calling themself a vegetarian.

[vanpaun]

What the heck are you even talking about? No one who eats beef or poultry is calling themself a vegetarian. They taught that at my school's somewhat corrupt wellness class. A bunch of people at my school are poultry eating vegetari

[vanpaun]

ans. also a self proclaimed vegetarian who enjoys bacon every once in a while

[agentQ]

I have been vegetarian for 12 years now. Am I not considered a vegetarian because for the last 2 years I have had shrimp 2 or 3 times?

As was asked before about the craving meat thing. I was craving shrimp, about 2 years ago, which is funny as I hated shrimp my whole life prior to becoming veggie. It was not fantastic or anything, but there must have been something in the little guys my body wanted.

I do not ever crave or miss red meat chicken or any of that sort of meat. I think at first there was a level of compassion I had for animals and did not want to eat them, but as the years have passed by, that is no longer the case. I would eat an animal for sure. Say if it were one I raised on my own farm, or maybe a friends farm, assuming I needed the food, or I could not sell the meat to others. If my family was starving I would hunt deer, turkey, and whatever else are in my area.

What keeps me veggie, is how nasty the meat industry is. I feel comfortable blaming a lot of the worlds health problems, as well as mental problems on the quality of food that many have been stuffing into them their whole life.

The only compromise I make is eating dairy at restaurants. If there is a vegan option I will get that, unless I know the dairy is free range and of my beliefs. Usually neither are an option and I will just eat the dairy anyway. But for my own cooking the dairy is always animal friendly. Typically supporting dairy farms is supporting the meat industry. This is why "some" vegans will try and push vegan ways onto vegetarians. Most simply respect everyone no matter what they choose, as more often than not veggie lovers are not mean cold hearted people.

I said this in the other vegetarian thread:
"I am not a vegetarian because I LOVE animals, I am a vegetarian because I HATE vegetables."

Nothing gives me more pleasure than cutting a cucumber in half, or strangling a string bean to death.:p

[vanpaun]

agentq, you are a vegetarian. over my almost 4 years as a vegetarian, there have been mistakes made at restaurants. so I have by accibent eaten meat, and pisceo vegetarians are vegetarians.

[unicycledood]

I agree with you Sam. The meat industries are disgusting...

If I were starving and if it was either my life or their's, then yes I would eat an animal. But to me, it would feel like canabilisum.

[unicycledood]

As a vegetarian for my entire life (since birth, parents are vegetarian too), I can tell you that meat substitutes are not for fake vegetarians or people who are having trouble adjusting. Meat substitutes are for protein and if they were shaped any different, you'd probably never want to touch as it didn't even look like food.

Some people don't like them (whether it's your case about not liking the shape or just flavor in general) while some people do and make sure they are in their diet.

Sorry man, I hope I didn't offend you.

And wow! A Texas vegetarian???? From what I've heard about Texas, that must be freaking hard.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

People like you make me want to not even ever try to be veg or vegan.

I have a friend who has been veg for at least 6 years. Last I checked, she still ate fish. Her reasoning is that red meat animals are cooped up their whole lives, stuffed in small overcrowded cages and whatnot. They walk around in their own excrement and trample/peck each other.

Fish on the other hand, live freely, swimming in the ocean. Their lives abruptly end when they are caught. The difference, in her eyes, lies in the treatment of the animal BEFORE it is killed to be eaten.

I've toyed with the idea of not eating meat, but I think what it really comes down to is that meat is an inexpensive form of nutrition. Although its true that our bodies do no require meat and that an overconsumption can have negative health effects, meat eaten in moderation has positive health benefits.

I'm all for free-range. I still don't aprove of killing animals but I think it's better than farms.
however there are farms for fish as well and they're just as bad as factory farms for other animals.
Also over-fishing is a HUGE problem for our planet.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

Sorry man, I hope I didn't offend you.

And wow! A Texas vegetarian???? From what I've heard about Texas, that must be freaking hard.
Texas is just as easy as any other state... Lol.

And Leah's a girl. :p

[monkeyman]

And wow! A Texas vegetarian???? From what I've heard about Texas, that must be freaking hard.

No, you get rather attached to the horses you ride to school (which just teaches you how to care for cows), so it's really not that hard to stay away from meat.

Instead, we eat Democrats.

[unicycledood]

Lol sorry Leah.

Interesting to hear about texas. I heard they have a steak house for every 2 buildings over there :P

(slight over exaduration)

[monkeyman]

Interesting to hear about texas. I heard they have a steak house for every 2 buildings over there :P

Yay fractions?


The sad thing is, I don't know how serious you are.

[unicycledood]

Yay fractions?


The sad thing is, I don't know how serious you are.

I've never been serious in my life.

No I wasn't serious. Its just that I don't know any Texans, but I've heard theres a shit load of meat over there.


This is crazy, I had no idea there were so many vegetarians on these forums. :D

[SqueakyOnion]

Right, how many other animals do you pierce with a sharp hook, make them struggle to exhaustion, then suffocate them to death before you eat them?

Most fish are caught in nets. No hooks. Same with crab, for that matter. However, if I were to spend a week or two camping, I would have no qualms with catching a few fish for dinner. I could even make it quick for them, and use dynamite:eek: :D

I am not, and probably will not ever be opposed to catching/slaughtering animals for food. I do believe in not abusing or torturing animals during their life, but it is our natural place in the food chain to eat them. It's true that we don't need to eat meat, but meat is a good, relatively cheap source of nutrition. Additionally, we should eat them as part of a BALANCED diet, not cramming a whole t-bone steak down our throats in one sitting. A balanced diet includes a lot more veggies and grains than meat.

Meat is largely a cultural thing in the states and in the UK. As a culture(s), we eat far more meat than is necessary.

Regarding the meat industry:

The book Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser goes into an in-depth study and discussion of the modern meat industry. This book almost made me become vegetarian, not for the sake of the animals, but out of outrage against the meat industry, the way it treats the animals but more the way it treats and takes advantage of its employees.

Then, I realized that most of the products I consume, be it food, clothes, music, toys, health products, etc., are made by companies that exploit workers. The fact of the matter is, I can't know what products I buy were created using exploitation, and thus to "play on the safe side," I would have to stop consuming them all, which is next to impossible.* I couldn't, in good conscience, pick and choose which industry I didn't want to buy exploited goods from. All or nothing.

Instead, I've adopted a philosophy of simple living. My goal is to, in general, CONSUME LESS than most people in this country. Buy food in bulk, buy locally grown stuff, and only buy stuff I really need. When I really started thinking about it, I was amazed at how many of my "NEEDS" were actually "WANTS" manufactured and then distributed to my mind through advertising and societal expectations (largely via parental units). My goal for the end of this summer is to be able to fit all of my possessions into my 2-door Pontiac, and make sure this stays the case. Eventually, I'd like to be car-free, once I have a long-term job. If I buy something new, I get rid of (donate/sell/freecycle) something to make room.

* Unless I become a hitchhiker, or a trail hippie who lives on the Appalacian Trail. Who needs showers or deodorant, right?

[yoopers]

My goal for the end of this summer is to be able to fit all of my possessions into my 2-door Pontiac
I wish I could have adopted that philosophy when we first moved into our house over 18 years ago. Now I never want to move because I'm afraid to see what has accumulated in and populated the crawlspace under the house. If my garage is any indication, I'm in big trouble.

[uniextreme]

Given that*...

- it's probably not the diet you started out with
- it's an extreme diet (eliminating an entire food group)
- there are concerns about getting enough of certain nutrients

... why did you switch to vegetarianism?

... how much research did you do before switching?

... do you feel better on this diet? Or the same?

... do you ever miss meat (like bacon)? I know I would.



* - ).

It appears this is slowly turning into yet another debate thread.
But to get back on track...

First off I don't think cutting off meat and dairy out of my diet is extreme at all. In fact it's quite rational, why would I ever want to eat meat, dairy or eggs and support the torturous commodification of animals when there is another way! I realized the only justification there was to eating meat was, "mm its too good to give up" when I broke it down and realized that my own selfishness led to the slaughter of living beings that felt pain, I just couldn't do it anymore. So I went vegetarian then eventually went vegan.



Do I ever miss the sizzling corpse of a pig? Not so much although I didn at first.

Did I do research? And then some.

Do I feel better? Not really because it seems like the only logical option to me.


And to the other guy about Peta=Nazis? Hmm not quite sure what you mean by this, often times PETA gets attaches to the animal liberation front or other groups that try to take town vivisectors with violence. Although I have qualms with PETA and what they are doing wrong, they aren't the same group as the ALF.

[Buddy]

Sorry man, I hope I didn't offend you.

And wow! A Texas vegetarian???? From what I've heard about Texas, that must be freaking hard.

Not offended, just trying to set the record straight. (Or at least my opinion of the record..)

I live in Austin which is hometown of Whole Foods. It's ridiculously easy.

Lol sorry Leah.

Interesting to hear about texas. I heard they have a steak house for every 2 buildings over there :P

(slight over exaduration)

It's all good.

If that's true...I'm not aware of it. Not sure I'd pay attention either way. :P

[peleschramm]

I wish I had the strength to also become a vegetarian. The only problem is, I hate most fruits and veggies and fake meat is disgusting. I can't do without it.

But this is the Vegetarian appreciation thread isn't it? So I appreciate all you Vegetarians.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

I wish I had the strength to also become a vegetarian. The only problem is, I hate most fruits and veggies and fake meat is disgusting. I can't do without it.

Pele, the next time I see you, we're going to a pizza place and we're going to order a bunch of extra cheesey, rediculously unhealthy and insanely delicious pizzas.
Pie is good too.
I'm eating rhubarb pie right now.

[peleschramm]

yeah, pizza is great(can always use some pepperoni though...). But the deal is, all the vegetarian stuff I like is insanely unhealthy, and my parents are kinda health freaks. Besides, I work at Quiznos, and I can only eat so many veggie sandwiches...

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

yeah, pizza is great(can always use some pepperoni though...). But the deal is, all the vegetarian stuff I like is insanely unhealthy, and my parents are kinda health freaks. Besides, I work at Quiznos, and I can only eat so many veggie sandwiches...
aww, can't you pull the unicycling will keep me from being fat thing on them?
Yesterday for meal I had an egg covered with cheese, toritilla chips and pie.

[unicycledood]

I'm eating rhubarb pie right now.

Ahh the pie of rhubarb. I've heard only good things.

I usually eat pasta with yes, ridiculous amounts of cheese. Oh yes and hummus. I know not all hummus is good. Most of it is crap actually... But theres this one awesome brand that I buy like once every two days with a 6 pack of cheese buns. (sometimes 12, when I'm feeling naughty. hoho).

[uni57]

The only problem is, I hate most fruits and veggiesMe too. Well, fruit is okay, although I don't like melons. But I don't like vegetables. Have you tried making vegetable juice? Here's what I do (http://www.photo57.com/juice/), although I make it a bit differently now. I was surprised to find that it didn't taste bad. By juicing, I can get (most of) the goodness of a big pile of vegetables that I wouldn't otherwise be able to eat.

Also, soup is a great place to put vegetables. I make chicken vegetable rice soup all the time and really load it with vegetables.

Hey, we are two vegetable-haters posting in a vegetarian thread! :)

[SqueakyOnion]

I wish I could have adopted that philosophy when we first moved into our house over 18 years ago. Now I never want to move because I'm afraid to see what has accumulated in and populated the crawlspace under the house. If my garage is any indication, I'm in big trouble.

My parents are in that same boat. Unfortunately for them, it looks like they are going to HAVE to move in a year or two. My mom has a "plan of attack" for clearing out the basement, attic, and garage...much of which involves my manual labor! 'sall good though, since I know my mom went through a lot of 'labor' for me:o

My parents, and dad especially are pack-rats. I think thats why I've sort of adopted the idea of living more simply. I got tired of living with so much STUFF that just seemed to clutter up my living space as well as my mind.

On topic:
I just watched an episode of How It's Made, and they showed milk production. On a state-of-the-art dairy farm, cows roam freely from indoors to outdoors, their manure is removed automatically all throughout the day, and they choose when they want to be milked. There is also an automatic scratcher/brusher machine that the cows can walk over to whenever they wanna be scratched/brushed. The milking machine is designed in such a way so as to mimic an actual calf as much possible, and makes sure not to separate the cow from the herd, which would stress the cow out. The milk is produced this way out of concern for the animals, but also because happy, stress-free cows produce higher quality milk, and more of it. I have no moral or emotional objection to this kind of milk production at all.

Does anyone here have an objection to this kind of milk production? If so, what is it? Why?

[agentQ]

Does anyone here have an objection to this kind of milk production? If so, what is it? Why?

That sounds "better" than the typical dairy farm. Did they talk about the cows food and chemical intake? Are hormones involved? I would imagine that the male calves are still sold to McDonalds and the like. How long do they let the cows live? Dairy farms typically do not let the cow live a full life as they will start to produce less milk then a young ready to go cow.

[uniextreme]

"Then, I realized that most of the products I consume, be it food, clothes, music, toys, health products, etc., are made by companies that exploit workers. The fact of the matter is, I can't know what products I buy were created using exploitation, and thus to "play on the safe side," I would have to stop consuming them all, which is next to impossible.* I couldn't, in good conscience, pick and choose which industry I didn't want to buy exploited goods from. All or nothing."

All or nothing?! Wow I sure am glad this is the first time ive heard this. I accept that oppression and exploitation are the norm in our society. I do my very best to avoid companies that exploit their workers just as I do my best to avoid animal products. Although since we rely on the exploitation of animals no one could really be completely vegan, rubber has animal byproducts, mscalisi once said cement has a binding agent made from pig fat and the list goes on. Yet I know I'm not perfect but I cant just sit around and make excuses for myself, I figure I should at least try.

I just watched an episode of How It's Made, and they showed milk production. On a state-of-the-art dairy farm, cows roam freely from indoors to outdoors, their manure is removed automatically all throughout the day, and they choose when they want to be milked. There is also an automatic scratcher/brusher machine that the cows can walk over to whenever they wanna be scratched/brushed. The milking machine is designed in such a way so as to mimic an actual calf as much possible, and makes sure not to separate the cow from the herd, which would stress the cow out. The milk is produced this way out of concern for the animals, but also because happy, stress-free cows produce higher quality milk, and more of it. I have no moral or emotional objection to this kind of milk production at all.

Does anyone here have an objection to this kind of milk production? If so, what is it? Why?

Yes I have an objection to that.
The cows are still being exploited, they are still simply a commodity as well as a means to an end. THey are artificially inseminated, their children are sold to the veal industry, they produce milk for humans, then once they no longer can, they are disposed of through slaughter. They are reduced from a living breathing creature to a machine for capital ends. Yet just because it's nicer then others its not supposed to be bad?

[UniBrier]

Most fish are caught in nets. No hooks. Same with crab, for that matter. However, if I were to spend a week or two camping, I would have no qualms with catching a few fish for dinner. I could even make it quick for them, and use dynamite.The dynamite only shocks them, doesn't kill them out right. You're still suffocating those poor fish to death. Where is the outrage for humane slaughter of the fish?

And don't get me started on bivalves. Cooked alive for goodness sake!

Crabs can stand some time out of water, and when we rip the shell off and break the body in half to clean them they are killed instantly (at least for the Dungeness we catch here locally).

[peleschramm]

aww, can't you pull the unicycling will keep me from being fat thing on them?
Yesterday for meal I had an egg covered with cheese, toritilla chips and pie.
Haha my parents don't care about me being fat. It's about HEALTH. Like try not to have saturated fat and stuff like that, not looks. They are afraid I'll die of a heart-attack at an early age or something.



I think maybe I'll give vegetarianism a go, maybe just for a few days or something just to see how it is, see if I can live with it.

[SqueakyOnion]

All or nothing?! Wow I sure am glad this is the first time ive heard this. I accept that oppression and exploitation are the norm in our society. I do my very best to avoid companies that exploit their workers just as I do my best to avoid animal products. Although since we rely on the exploitation of animals no one could really be completely vegan, rubber has animal byproducts, mscalisi once said cement has a binding agent made from pig fat and the list goes on. Yet I know I'm not perfect but I cant just sit around and make excuses for myself, I figure I should at least try.

If you had bothered to read the rest of my post, you'd see that our reactions are quite similar. By all or nothing, I chose "all." You see, rather than pick and choose which industry I deem "the worst" (since I can't really know for sure which is worse) and just boycott a single industry, I try to follow a lifestyle of LESS OVERALL CONSUMPTION. I try to consume foods, goods, and services only in the amounts I need, without excess. Thus, I most definitely am "at least try"ing.

I wasn't making excuses, I was merely trying to point out that boycotting a single industry (such as the meat industry), to me, seems like putting on horse-blinders and only paying attention to one problem, while ignoring the rest.



Yes I have an objection to that.
The cows are still being exploited, they are still simply a commodity as well as a means to an end. THey are artificially inseminated, their children are sold to the veal industry, they produce milk for humans, then once they no longer can, they are disposed of through slaughter. They are reduced from a living breathing creature to a machine for capital ends. Yet just because it's nicer then others its not supposed to be bad?

Yes I have an objection to that.
The humans are still being exploited, their labor is still simply a commodity as well as a means to an end. THey are culturally pressured to reproduce, their children are sold to corporations for their labor, they produce goods for humans, then once they no longer can, they are disposed of through nursing homes. They are reduced from a living breathing creature to a machine for capital ends. Yet just because it's nicer then others its not supposed to be bad?

Sorry, but the treatment of much of humanity is not a far cry from the treatment of many livestock. In some places, the treatment of humans is worse. I'll get my panties in a bunch over human rights a lot quicker than animal rights any day.

Are nursing homes better than slaughter? Maybe the really expensive ones are, but not the many I've seen. I'd rather be slaughtered than put in a nursing home any day.


Did they talk about the cows food and chemical intake?

The cows are fed no hormones, but a mix of grains and wheat, slightly enriched with vitamins and stuff. No chemicals, at least that they mentioned, aside from disinfecting their teats before milking.

[yoopers]

Crabs can stand some time out of water, and when we rip the shell off and break the body in half to clean them they are killed instantly (at least for the Dungeness we catch here locally).
Steve,

You're bringing back some very fond memories for me of a time during my high school years catching Maryland Blue Crab on the shores of the Chesapeake. Man, those were some feasts!!!

[peleschramm]

Ok guys. I have decided. As of now, I am giving Vegetarianism a real shot. I work tonight, so I'm going to have my first ever Veggie Sandwich for dinner!

I hope I'll last.

[agentQ]

Awesome. If you stay true come NAUCC I will buy you a meal.

[peleschramm]

Awesome. If you stay true come NAUCC I will buy you a meal.
That's all the motivation I need!

haha, I hope to hold till then.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

Ok guys. I have decided. As of now, I am giving Vegetarianism a real shot. I work tonight, so I'm going to have my first ever Veggie Sandwich for dinner!

I hope I'll last.
Haha, good for you! But... you've worked at that sandwhich place so long and you've never had the veggie sandwhich!? :p

[uniextreme]

Yes I have an objection to that.
The humans are still being exploited, their labor is still simply a commodity as well as a means to an end. THey are culturally pressured to reproduce, their children are sold to corporations for their labor, they produce goods for humans, then once they no longer can, they are disposed of through nursing homes.

So what's your point? The angle you are trying to take is "There is too much racism in the world so I don't want to concern myself with sexism"
I have a problem with all oppression. Be it animals or humans and I do my best to not contribute to a system where exploitation exists. You are right humans are exploited, that doesn't mean I can't object to animal exploitation as well.

[SqueakyOnion]

So what's your point? The angle you are trying to take is "There is too much racism in the world so I don't want to concern myself with sexism"
I have a problem with all oppression. Be it animals or humans and I do my best to not contribute to a system where exploitation exists. You are right humans are exploited, that doesn't mean I can't object to animal exploitation as well.

My point was to put things in perspective. I have objections to animal abuse and exploitation, but our opinion varies of what constitutes exploitation in the case of animals. I don't feel that animals have all the same rights as humans. It has nothing to do with "superiority" or anything, but rather that we have our place in nature and the food chain, and they have theirs.

I see and hear (in person, not this thread) all these people ranting and raving about mistreated, starving animals. Then I hear the same people talk about how they wish the police would take all the homeless people and "just round them up," in order to remove them from their towns/whatever. I guess I have to admit that a lot of vegetarian/vegan/animals rights activists have rubbed me the wrong way.

[johnfoss]

I haven't read the discussion beyond post #5, which I'm quoting below:
I'm a carnivore.Don't want to say you're a liar, but I submit that you are in fact an OMNIVORE. Like me.

I'm trying to eat better, though it's hard to get away from some of the bad crap I like. I like eathing healthy, and my body appreciates it when I keep it up for a stretch. Especially during all this RTL training...

Speaking of which, in Monday's practice Time Trial race, I came in 5th. There were at least three vegetarians in front of me. Say what you will about getting nutrients, but those guys (Nathan, Beau, Scalisi) definitely do. Not sure about Tom, the winner.

Also Jacquie and I try to buy the organic stuff when we can (eggs for instance). So if/when animals are used, they're not as abused.

[kington99]

I haven't read the discussion beyond post #5, which I'm quoting below:
Don't want to say you're a liar, but I submit that you are in fact an OMNIVORE. Like me.



Yes he addressed that issue about two posts later.

[peleschramm]

Ok guys, day one as a vegetarian, CHECK! It was slightly difficult, but I got through my shift at Quiznos just fine. The Veggie sandwich isn't bad either... (though black Angus steaks taste much better :o )

[1wheelwonder]

I have 2 things to say, one, does a lion say sorry and go cry when it has killed something? No... I though not and secondly, Why don't you people think about the poor fruit and vegetables, they are alive to, just because they don't do much, doesn't mean they don't have feelings!

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

I have 2 things to say, one, does a lion say sorry and go cry when it has killed something? No... I though not and secondly, Why don't you people think about the poor fruit and vegetables, they are alive to, just because they don't do much, doesn't mean they don't have feelings!
A Lion needs to eat meat to survive. Most people don't need to eat meat to survive AND it's not like we're trying make YOU go without eating meat so stop bitching! :p
Also, although plants are alive, they aren't sentient beings. It's imposible to live without taking other life so I try to take as little life from others as I can. Believe me, if I could survive without vegetables, I wouldn't eat them.

By the way, plants want animals to eat their fruit. You only kill the plant if it's a vegetable.

[James_Potter]

I was vegetarian for two years, these days, I'll eat meat if it's organic or free range, or if it's going to be wasted otherwise.

[Buddy]

I have 2 things to say, one, does a lion say sorry and go cry when it has killed something? No... I though not and secondly, Why don't you people think about the poor fruit and vegetables, they are alive to, just because they don't do much, doesn't mean they don't have feelings!

I don't have anything against eating meat.

I was vegetarian for two years, these days, I'll eat meat if it's organic or free range, or if it's going to be wasted otherwise.

Holy cow! You're not dead! Everyone's been wondering where you went off to.

[peleschramm]

Yeah, I decided that I will eat meat only if it will be wasted otherwise.

Like if my friend can't finish their burger I wouldn't mind eating the rest.

But I am done with meat otherwise. (I hope!)

[peleschramm]

I have 2 things to say, one, does a lion say sorry and go cry when it has killed something? No...
Another thing here is that at least the lion at least kills animals that have actually led a life. The meat we eat isn't hunted, we don't go hunting for cows. They were bred for this purpose, their whole life they just sit around eating until they are big enough to be eaten. That doesn't sound fair.

[uni57]

their whole life they just sit around eating until they are big enough to be eaten. That doesn't sound fair.Pasture-raised organic cattle can lead an ideal life (for their species). They roam around in the sunshine grazing and socializing. They eat an organic diet of grass, which is exactly what they are supposed to be eating.

If we could only lead the human equivalent of that ideal life (except for having it cut short to be eaten).

The dairy cows where I get my milk lead such a life. Long, happy, healthy, and stress-free. Their gift to us is much appreciated. I drink their wonderful, health-giving raw milk with much gratitude.

[uni57]

Wouldn't supporting the small, local farms help bring about a rural revival? With enough consumer demand for humanely-raised meat, it could change the face of agriculture completely. So many small farms go out of business every day because they can't compete with big business. As a result, most people feed themselves on factory-farmed animals.

If factory-farming is what you are against, wouldn't it be better to help the small farmers by buying their humanely-raised food and supporting organizations (http://www.westonaprice.org) dedicated to bringing about such a change? If humanely-raised natural food is what the consumer demanded, then big business would comply eventually. In the mean time, you have not eaten factory-farmed animals AND you have helped to bring about a revolution. Isn't this more helpful than a simple boycott of meat? This might be the case only if your main reason for not eating meat is the deplorable conditions under which the animals live and die. If your reasons for vegetarianism go beyond this, then this argument does not apply to you.

The whole world is not going to become vegetarian. By being a vegetarian, you are not contributing to the problem of animal suffering, but you are also not helping to solve it. The demand and need for meat will always be there. So why not help to revolutionize how that meat is produced? Vote for humanely-raised, clean, organic meats -- vote with your consumer dollars. Support the small, local farms that pasture-raise their animals (buy their meat). Help to bring about change rather than merely turning your back to the problem. (Okay, that last part sounds a bit harsh. I didn't mean to word it quite so strongly...)

[vanpaun]

Wouldn't supporting the small, local farms help bring about a rural revival? With enough consumer demand for humanely-raised meat, it could change the face of agriculture completely. So many small farms go out of business every day because they can't compete with big business. As a result, most people feed themselves on factory-farmed animals.

If factory-farming is what you are against, wouldn't it be better to help the small farmers by buying their humanely-raised food and supporting organizations (http://www.westonaprice.org) dedicated to bringing about such a change? If humanely-raised natural food is what the consumer demanded, then big business would comply eventually. In the mean time, you have not eaten factory-farmed animals AND you have helped to bring about a revolution. Isn't this more helpful than a simple boycott of meat? This might be the case only if your main reason for not eating meat is the deplorable conditions under which the animals live and die. If your reasons for vegetarianism go beyond this, then this argument does not apply to you.

The whole world is not going to become vegetarian. By being a vegetarian, you are not contributing to the problem of animal suffering, but you are also not helping to solve it. The demand and need for meat will always be there. So why not help to revolutionize how that meat is produced? Vote for humanely-raised, clean, organic meats -- vote with your consumer dollars. Support the small, local farms that pasture-raise their animals (buy their meat). Help to bring about change rather than merely turning your back to the problem. (Okay, that last part sounds a bit harsh. I didn't mean to word it quite so strongly...)

The pita nazi's :), are doing just that. They are developing invitro petri dish meat.

[uni57]

The pita nazi's :), are doing just that. They are developing invitro petri dish meat.The pita Nazis? The flat bread they make sandwiches out of? :)

I'm not familiar with what PETA is doing. All I know is what people say about them being a bit extremist. But what you posted sounds exactly the opposite of what I was talking about. I'm talking about sustainable agriculture. Connecting the small farmer to the local consumers. Reviving local communities and local economies by bringing back the small farms, including dairy farms*. Returning to a sane and healthy lifestyle, such as the one we had 100 years ago. Treating our animals well so that they, in turn, can give us the gift of life.



* - this could revive those rural communities that have been devastated because the oil refinery closed or the car manufacturing plant closed, which took away all the jobs. If the government wants to give out subsidies, they should help the small farmer get back on his feet. Those poor communities could put those abandoned farms to use and revive their local community, while providing healthy food for everybody.

[kington99]

Uni57, why this link between healthy food and small, local farmers? if the market for such food grows, surely the big companies will move in and crush the competition as they do in other markets? obviously less intensive farming requires more land, and more manpower, but I can't see any reason why local farms would have an advantage over large industries here.

[uniextreme]

Treating our animals well so that they, in turn, can give us the gift of life.

.

I like your word choice. You make it seem as though the cow walks to the butchering table and begs to sacrifice itself for humans. In reality they aren't giving, we are taking.

[uni57]

Uni57, why this link between healthy food and small, local farmers? There doesn't have to be a link, but I think small farms are more likely to pasture their animals and treat them better. A small farmer is probably not going to use factory-farming techniques like the giant businesses do. Or, another way to look at it -- do you know of any mega-corporations that treat their animals humanely and raise them on pasture? That endeavor seems to be reserved for the small, family farms. I could be wrong. I don't trust the big corporations when they say "organic". They don't always abide by the spirit of organic, which to me, encompasses locally-sourced foods, sustainable agriculture, humane treatment of animals, etc. You can have factory-farmed organic milk which isn't much better than regular milk. The giant dairies feed all sorts of crap to their cows, such as bakery waste, for example. The organic cows will get organic bakery waste, but they are still eating crap. They are still in a confinement dairy.

What I'm hoping for is the revival of the small family farms. In great numbers, they can compete with the big corporations. These are the farms that are most likely to produce healthy food and treat their livestock well. There is consumer demand for organic, local food. More and more farms are staying in business by turning to an organic model and selling their products directly to the consumer.

[uni57]

I like your word choice. Thank you.

[1wheelwonder]

My mum went to the abbatior when she was younger, because her friend worked their, she didn't eat meat for 2 years!

[unicycledood]

Uni57, first off. Cows shouldn't be called cattle lol.

Cows are ment to eat more then just grass. I have 2 cows and whenever I let them out to graze they head straight for my precious trees.

That obviously shows their not too happy with their padocks alone.



Something on a off note. Mephane gas... Apparently its one of the sorces of global warming? And apparenlty its whats caused a massive hole in the ozone layer above NZ! And apparently.... studies show that the majority of green house gases included mephane gas...comes from cows...

If "cattle" wern't introduced into NZ we'd still have a ozone layer lol. But thats not what I care about. I love cows haha. BUT, I don't think there would be such a big fuss about green house gases at the moment if it wern't for all the cows.

I don't know the exact facts about this, but I've heard it somewhere, so if some of these things ring a bell to anyone, lemme know what its about.



Just imagine some new weird ruler of the world was a vegan and decided all cows should be set free. The world would be messed up... Wild cows everywhere lol... all I'm saying is that there are more cows in the world then nature intended on.

[uni57]

Uni57, first off. Cows shouldn't be called cattle lol.

Cows are ment to eat more then just grass. I have 2 cows and whenever I let them out to graze they head straight for my precious trees.

That obviously shows their not too happy with their padocks alone.Well, I'm no cow expert, obviously. But a cow is a girl cow. What's a boy cow called? A steer or a bull? What are they called when they are all mixed together, being raised for meat (as opposed to a herd of dairy (girl) cows)? A co-ed herd of cows is called... cattle? Steer? Bulls? Cows? Bovine quadrupeds?

You are so lucky to have cows! Read my entry on the bucket list (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1032640#post1032640) thread.

Maybe your cows are just tired of grass. Man is not meant to eat junk food, but he does. Your cows want a tasty snack alternative!

Edit: you are also lucky to have a source of quality raw milk.

[Kyle_Destroyer]

Well, the thing about saying that cows help cause global warming and that eating them helps global warming is actually very, very wrong.

We wouldn't have highly concentrated, mass produced cattle if there wasn't a demand for it.

There would be exponentially less cows if we were all vegans.

[idiorythmic]

There would be exponentially less cows if we were all vegans.

I believe that is incorrect: there could be fewer cows.

Reminder: if you are referring to a group of individually discernible objects, such as the bricks in a wall, the dollars in my bank account, or the cows in a field you use the word fewer to express a smaller number. The word less is used when you are referring to a continuous or amorphous amount of something, such as the water in a lake, the time left in a class period, or the amount of happiness in the world.

[kington99]

Something on a off note. Mephane gas... Apparently its one of the sorces of global warming? And apparenlty its whats caused a massive hole in the ozone layer above NZ! And apparently.... studies show that the majority of green house gases included mephane gas...comes from cows...

If "cattle" wern't introduced into NZ we'd still have a ozone layer lol. But thats not what I care about. I love cows haha. BUT, I don't think there would be such a big fuss about green house gases at the moment if it wern't for all the cows.



This is true, cattle are a major source of methane. Top Gear, a car program in the UK, stated last year that a cow damages the ozone more than a Range Rover being driven 10,000 miles a year, as methane is 23 times more damaging than the greenhouse gases commonly found in car exhausts, and cows produce an awful lot of it. Now I'm sure those figures are somewhat biased, but when you throw in the decrease in CO2 processing due to deforrestation to clear land for herds, there can be no doubt that eating meat is a serious contributor to the greenhouse effect, or atleast to greenhouse gases in the ozone.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

Uni57, first off. Cows shouldn't be called cattle lol.

Cows are ment to eat more then just grass. I have 2 cows and whenever I let them out to graze they head straight for my precious trees.

That obviously shows their not too happy with their padocks alone.



Something on a off note. Mephane gas... Apparently its one of the sorces of global warming? And apparenlty its whats caused a massive hole in the ozone layer above NZ! And apparently.... studies show that the majority of green house gases included mephane gas...comes from cows...

If "cattle" wern't introduced into NZ we'd still have a ozone layer lol. But thats not what I care about. I love cows haha. BUT, I don't think there would be such a big fuss about green house gases at the moment if it wern't for all the cows.

I don't know the exact facts about this, but I've heard it somewhere, so if some of these things ring a bell to anyone, lemme know what its about.



Just imagine some new weird ruler of the world was a vegan and decided all cows should be set free. The world would be messed up... Wild cows everywhere lol... all I'm saying is that there are more cows in the world then nature intended on.
Some places here in the US have found a way to extract the Methane from the cow manure and turn it into electricty. Awesome?

[vanpaun]

Just to let you know... Cows are european. If vegetarians existed in the same numbers they do today, when the first settlers came, there would be no cows in america, except maybe at the zoo.

[thejdw]

What would you guys say is wrong with eating non factory meat? - just curious

[Triball]

The way I see it is that the only difference between the vegetarians and me (who for example don't eat beans) is that you are greater in numbers. So, it's ok for you to be picky and still be proud of it.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

What would you guys say is wrong with eating non factory meat? - just curious
Mainly, you're killing an animal...

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

The way I see it is that the only difference between the vegetarians and me (who for example don't eat beans) is that you are greater in numbers. So, it's ok for you to be picky and still be proud of it.
Lol, most of us don't eat meat beacause it goes against our morals.
Not because we don't like the taste of meat.

[peleschramm]

I love meat more than anything, and i am stilling giving vegetarianism a go.

Todays the 3rd day and i'm still sober lol.

[thejdw]

Mainly, you're killing an animal...
So I asume you belive lions, piranas, tigers....etc are all moraly wrong? Humans are animals still.

[kington99]

So I asume you belive lions, piranas, tigers....etc are all moraly wrong? Humans are animals still.

they have to eat meat to live, we do not

[thejdw]

they have to eat meat to live, we do not
But we can.

[kington99]

But we can.


Yes, but animals cause suffering to other animals because otherwise they will die. We do it because it's tasty.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

So I asume you belive lions, piranas, tigers....etc are all moraly wrong? Humans are animals still.
What Kington said.
Which I already said earlier in this thread if you care to read the whole thing.

Basically, I feel bad if I eat meat so I don't eat it. Is that such a crime? I'm not making you not eat meat...

[unibikeling]

i'm not going to eat meat unless i'm either forced to, or its such a small amount that it wont matter really..

[UniKid2]

Basically, I feel bad if I eat meat so I don't eat it. Is that such a crime? I'm not making you not eat meat...

Allelujah!

[The.Mars.Volta]

So umm yeah, I'm vegetarian. Have been for about 5 years. I've recently become more involved with animals rights and things of the sort... Just wondering if there are any other vegetarian unicyclists around. :D:D:D

Heres a pretty "hip" site that some of your youngsters may want to check out. www.peta2.com
Sick man i'm a vego too, i have been for all my life.

tip: for jelly like products eg lollies and jelly and stuff, just check the ingredients for geletine and for dairy products eg cheese and yohgurt check the ingredients for rennet. if you don't know what they are wikipedia it. it's meaty. i just found out about them about a month ago and haven't eaten either since then. so no more lollies for me. oh well. if you're a proper vego you wouldn't eat them.

[Catboy]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/bigpot6.jpg

[unicycledood]

Sick man i'm a vego too, i have been for all my life.

tip: for jelly like products eg lollies and jelly and stuff, just check the ingredients for geletine and for dairy products eg cheese and yohgurt check the ingredients for rennet. if you don't know what they are wikipedia it. it's meaty. i just found out about them about a month ago and haven't eaten either since then. so no more lollies for me. oh well. if you're a proper vego you wouldn't eat them.

I knew this when I became a vego... Argh... My beloved jelly lollies... Its been a hard road...

Uni57, cattle = slave. So quit trying to be a smartass.

I'm getting sick of people hating, this is a appreciation thread. If you guys want to start hating, just make a errr... unappreciation thread.

[jamessd]

Can it not be a debate?

Sure, don't it meat if it is immoral for you,

but is that going to stop the animals being grown for food?

You may love these farm animals, but you couldn't love them at all if nobody ate meat, because if nobody ate meat then no farmers would breed cattle.

So, if you can't beat em (which you can't), join em.

[unicycledood]

Wtf are you talking about? I already stated that its obvious that cows wouldnt be around anymore if it wern't for humans breeding them for THEIR "qualities".

If humans were raised to be eaten as meat then they would also be called cattle. All I'm saying is, I'm not comfortable calling cows, cattle.

[unicycledood]

So, if you can't beat em (which you can't), join em.

I'd beat every single one of you to a pulp if I could.

But I obviously can't :p But that dosn't mean I'll ever join you.

lol jkness

(But yeah, i decline your invite)

[uni57]

Uni57, cattle = slave. So quit trying to be a smartass.I really don't know why you are saying that.

Two entries from Merriam-Webster (http://www.m-w.com) --

cattle (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cattle) - domesticated quadrupeds held as property or raised for use; specifically : bovine animals on a farm or ranch

beef cattle (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beef%20cattle) - cattle developed primarily for the efficient production of meat and marked by capacity for rapid growth, heavy well-fleshed body, and stocky build

[BluntRM]

I really don't know why you are saying that.

Two entries from Merriam-Webster (http://www.m-w.com) --

cattle (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cattle) - domesticated quadrupeds held as property or raised for use; specifically : bovine animals on a farm or ranch

beef cattle (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beef%20cattle) - cattle developed primarily for the efficient production of meat and marked by capacity for rapid growth, heavy well-fleshed body, and stocky build

Online Etymology Dictionary

Cattle - c.1250, from Anglo-Fr. catel "property," from M.L. captale "property, stock," neut. of L. capitalis "principal, chief," from caput "head" (see head). Orig. sense was of moveable property, especially livestock; not limited to "cows" until 1555.

Also a cognate of Chattel

Chattel - c.1225, chatel "property, goods," from O.Fr. chatel (see cattle, which is the Norman-Picard form of the same word). Application to slaves (1649) is a rhetorical figure of abolitionists, etc.

Merriam-Webster's Chattel:
1 : an item of tangible movable or immovable property except real estate and things (as buildings) connected with real property
2 : slave, bondsman

[BluntRM]

Anyways, there's a commune near here that makes organic tofu. It's good stuff, they sell it in bulk and flavor it with seasonal harvests, shitake mushrooms being a local favorite. Also it microwaves surprisingly well in sandwich slabs.

http://www.twinoakstofu.com/

[thejdw]

if you care to read the whole thing.

Read all my way through a vegetable thread? No thanks, I have a beef burger to eat :)

[BluntRM]

http://www.ryanmclennan.com/work/paper/07/aftermath.jpg
http://www.fecalface.com/artists/ryan_mclennan/EXPECTING.jpg
http://www.fecalface.com/artists/ryan_mclennan/HAUL.jpg
http://www.twitchfilm.net/archives/pics/black-sheep-poster-thumb.jpg

[JJuggle]

I rented Black Sheep on your "recommendation". Yikes.

[BluntRM]

An insightful piece documenting the condition of Neo-Kiwian agro-pastoral practices in modern day New Zealand. Highly recommended.

[Mikefule]

"A quick test of the assertion that enjoyment outweighs pain in this world, or that they are at any rate balanced, would be to compare the feelings of an anoimal engaged in eating another with those of the animal being eaten."

(Arthur "cheery sod" Schopenhauer.)

It is not immoral to eat meat per se, but many of the farming practices that allow you to eat meat in the modern industrialised world could be called immoral, and by eating meat you condone them.

I've been vegetarian for about 16 years, and was semi-vegi for a few years before that. There's no one reason, just lots of good reasons added together.

[unicycledood]

I really don't know why you are saying that.

Two entries from Merriam-Webster (http://www.m-w.com) --

cattle (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cattle) - domesticated quadrupeds held as property or raised for use; specifically : bovine animals on a farm or ranch

beef cattle (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beef%20cattle) - cattle developed primarily for the efficient production of meat and marked by capacity for rapid growth, heavy well-fleshed body, and stocky build

You just explained why the term "Cattle" means slave. Thank you.
"Cattle" that are "held as property or raised for use" are slaves.
The term "Beef Cattle"... Well obviously you can see what that is.


I havn't seen Blacksheep. And I don't know how many Kiwis have seen it. But I don't think I'll be watching it anytime soon... The acting dosnt look great and I dont know if its a comedy or a horror lol.

[vanpaun]

Black sheep, sounds slightler racist. Is their a Sheep with a wool pic? :D

EDIT: all ya hatazz I made a thread for you!!!!

[yoopers]

Black sheep, sounds slightler racist.
Don't follow your thinking here. Do you see everything that is black as racist? How about a very dark night? A blackened ribeye? Charcoal?

Just wondering.

[unicycledood]

Lol yeah thats not racist at all haha.

I always thought "black" people look more dark dark brown or purple anyway. But they call themselves black cause they know its cooler haha.

[vanpaun]

Look at the sheep picture. That displays some verry common sterotypical physical charecteristics.

[yoopers]

Look at the sheep picture. That displays some verry common sterotypical physical charecteristics.
Hmmm, I don't see it at all. Looks like a frightful sheep.

[uni57]

You just explained why the term "Cattle" means slave. Thank you.I've talked to several people today about cattle and none of them can figure out what planet you are from. And then this -- take a look at the banner ad that appeared at the bottom of this thread...

[vanpaun]

on other "planets" creatures with our intelect may be considered cattle.

[dudewithasock]

Look at the sheep picture. That displays some verry common sterotypical physical charecteristics.

Yes, it does. Of sheep.

[vanpaun]

Yes, it does. Of sheep.
I know!!! No one else realizes how all the brotha' sheep feel!

[ConiferMuni]

I try to eat vegan as much as possible, but I admit, I sometimes have trouble avoiding dairy because it's in so many foods, and I really like cheese.

I don't miss meat much at all, and I certainly don't feel great ethically when I do cave and eat meat.

The main reason I eat vegan is for health reasons.

I have a history of auto-immune diseases, including a very severe form of arthritis. When I eliminate all animal foods, my symptoms virtually disappear. I can't come up with a more compelling argument than that, but if you read the book "The China Study", you'll get a lot more reasons not to eat animal products.

I flat-out feel so much better mentally and physically when I eat well that it's worth the trade-off. I want to stay on my muni for a long time yet!

[BluntRM]

I rented Black Sheep on your "recommendation". Yikes.

Raphael,

"Condemn me. It does not matter. History will absolve me." -John Rambo, IV

http://media.movieweb.com/img/s/S/U/PHNKMQOWMLTsSU_m.jpg

[JJuggle]

"Condemn me. It does not matter. History will absolve me." -John Rambo, IV
As far as I'm concerned history absolved you before you were born.

[BluntRM]

A vote of confidence.


So I dug up this link for Chocolate Decadence (http://www.chocolatedecadence.com/product.htm), a vegan chocolate maker on the West coast, that had some stuff available at the Richmond Vegetarian Festival a few years back. Check this one out:

One pound of Tyrannosaurus Rex vegan chocolate
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/chocdec_1999_455747

[phlegm]

http://www.qwantz.com/comics/comic2-735.png

[Adder172]

People like you make me want to not even ever try to be veg or vegan.

I have a friend who has been veg for at least 6 years. Last I checked, she still ate fish. Her reasoning is that red meat animals are cooped up their whole lives, stuffed in small overcrowded cages and whatnot. They walk around in their own excrement and trample/peck each other.

Fish on the other hand, live freely, swimming in the ocean. Their lives abruptly end when they are caught. The difference, in her eyes, lies in the treatment of the animal BEFORE it is killed to be eaten.

I've toyed with the idea of not eating meat, but I think what it really comes down to is that meat is an inexpensive form of nutrition. Although its true that our bodies do no require meat and that an overconsumption can have negative health effects, meat eaten in moderation has positive health benefits.

don't get me wrong eating veg and only fish is better than nothing and i don't literaly hate the people i just disslike it when they claim they are "vegetarian" as they are not . vegetarians do not eat meat.

this is taken from the vegetarian society...

A vegetarian is someone living on a diet of grains, pulses, nuts, seeds, vegetables and fruits with or without the use of dairy products and eggs.

A vegetarian does not eat any meat, poultry, game, fish, shellfish or crustacea, or slaughter by-products.

[phlegm]

i just disslike it when they claim they are "vegetarian" as they are not . vegetarians do not eat meat.

...for how long? There have been many entire weeks in the past year where I've eaten an exclusively vegetarian diet. I've had a vegetarian diet since Sunday night. So, am I a vegetarian today?

[Adder172]

your vegetarian once you decide to uptake that lifestyle. you could give up meat and decide to truly be vegetarian and thats it you are, as long as you keep it up. but only if you actually meen it.

[BluntRM]

There's two kinds of people in the world, those that where hats and those that don't. You're a vegetarian except when you're not.

I understand that fish diets are usually high in toxins and lead as a result of water pollution threading through aquatic food chains.

[phlegm]

your vegetarian once you decide to uptake that lifestyle. you could give up meat and decide to truly be vegetarian and thats it you are, as long as you keep it up. but only if you actually meen it.

What lifestyle? It's just a diet... :rolleyes:

I choose to eat vegetarian meals most of the time, and I really mean it! I'm planning to keep it up today! So, I guess I'm a vegetarian today!! :p

Although, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to eat some lobsters in a couple weeks.

You're a vegetarian except when you're not.

Do I have to wait until the meat passes through my colon to be a vegetarian?


"A steak dinner can take you two, maybe three days to get out of your intestine. What that means is the way you digest it is basically to rot it in your intestines." (http://www.oprah.com/health/yourbody/slide/slide_yourbody_embarrassing_101.jhtml)

[unicycledood]

Rot in your intestines... nice...

People on good vegetarian diets heal faster :D Which better be true cause I'm really sore today and I wanna go for a ride later.

[yoopers]

You're a vegetarian except when you're not.
I guess I never considered myself a vegetarian before, but I just had a bowl full of raw broccoli, califlower, and mushrooms dipped in ranch sauce. Unless there's something in the ranch sauce that I'm not aware of, I was a vegetarian for several minutes. Maybe I still am because I haven't eaten anything else yet. Once I eat some sort of animal product, though, do I consider myself a former vegetarian, or a vegetarian in denial and in need of a trip to the Dr. Phil show? Maybe I could go the other way and consider myself a recovering meat eater.

On the serious side, I think in light of the nasty food on the American markets today up to and including those delicious double cheeseburgers at Mickey-D's, a vegetarian diet sure is a commendable way to go. I wish I had the will power to walk down that road. But then again, since I've got these meat-ripping front teeth available, an occasional sizzling steak or lobster dripping in butter on the dinner plate is more than tempting.

[BluntRM]

PETA says that meat begins at conception, but there's still quite a bit of contention over the colon and substances therein amongst vegetarianists, as well as transubstantiation, and the "one true" vegetarian diet.

Phglem, if you truly accept broccoli into your digestive tract, your meat will be absolved; vegetable fiber cleanses us of all our previous misgivings. It's a major tenant of the diet.

Yoopers, I too am a born again vegetarian of several years. I find strength in Tofu. I can give you a pamphlet if you're interested.

Otherwise, there's always Veganism; it has something to do with wearing large hats and burning frankincense. Also hunger strikes and living on a "compound" with other ultra-devout Vegans while praying to a "moon goddess" and henpecking the 'below-minimum-wage' waiter about how the soup du jour was prepared and if they could change the recipe to exclude the cheddar-cheese-bacon-bits hunked in by the chef (because all mainstream restaurants hunk cheddar-cheese-bacon-bits on top of otherwise normal recipes) and instead of those cheddar-cheese-bacon-bits could they substitute avocado slices and grilled mushrooms that the waiter is 'go-back-and-check-with-the-cook' positive weren't prepared on the same grill as the dead cow, which I agree is in poor taste for a restaurant to practice, all the while appearing to have questionable hygiene as a result of their expensive vegan soap/deodorant that truly does not work as well as a Proctor & Gamble chemical bath made with slaughterhouse bone char. Veganism, a cleaner conscience and a cleaner colon through wretched starvation.

[isaactrialsuni]

my mum, dad and sister r all vegos but i'm an omnivore. although to help save the planet from global warming (in which 30% is caused by cattle farts) i've decided that we should eat all the cows in a giant binge to get rid of them!!:D

[peleschramm]

I'm considering giving up (after 11 days I do believe)

[yoopers]

I'm considering giving up (after 11 days I do believe)
Pele,

Don't give up yet!!! Hang in there, man. You can do it!
.

[monkeyman]

Ian occasional sizzling steak or lobster dripping in butter on the dinner plate is more than tempting.
A few days ago, I heard about a taste test study that compared lobster and crawfish...they were prepared the same way (and the lobster was cut to look like crawfish), and people couldn't tell the difference. I thought that was interesting.

Keep in mind I can't cite the source, so take it with a grain of salt

[uni57]

I'm considering giving up (after 11 days I do believe)Good.

Apologies to the vegetarians. I just don't think it's a healthy diet for everyone. If a person doesn't think it's right for them, they should feel no pressure to continue. You should always listen to what your body tells you. We haven't entirely lost that instinctive knowledge of what food is right for us.

[Gilby]

What is the vegan and/or vegetarian position on eating animal products such as eggs, milk, and other non-lethal (to the source) products. As someone who would like to be self sufficient, and is naturally an omnivore, how does one naturally get all the vitamins and nutrients a human needs to survive?

For me, raising chickens for their eggs and goats for their milk does not seem like conflict for those who choose to be vegan/vegetarian for ethical or moral reasons. How else should a survivalist get their B12?

[SkierAlex]

Do you think you'd be a better unicyclist Chris if you weren't vegetarian? My friend used to be a top NZ sprinter but since he has become vegetarian he has become much worse. And another friend who is vegetarian says she never has any energy.

[vanpaun]

What is the vegan and/or vegetarian position on eating animal products such as eggs, milk, and other non-lethal (to the source) products. As someone who would like to be self sufficient, and is naturally an omnivore, how does one naturally get all the vitamins and nutrients a human needs to survive?

For me, raising chickens for their eggs and goats for their milk does not seem like conflict for those who choose to be vegan/vegetarian for ethical or moral reasons. How else should a survivalist get their B12?
1. Non lethal and kind are the way, but minuscule amounts in processed foods are un avoidable.
2. B12. Vegans in Iraq don't have that problem. Why? They use human fertilizer, and lets just say they're not the best cleaners in the world:eek:. Moral-vegans can eat shit, for B12!


Do you think you'd be a better unicyclist Chris if you weren't vegetarian? My friend used to be a top NZ sprinter but since he has become vegetarian he has become much worse. And another friend who is vegetarian says she never has any energy.

1. Your friends need to do some research, one can have more energy being vegetarian, be faster (less waste in your system from meat). They probably don't eat healthily (not an apple a day spheal, but balanced.)

[SkierAlex]

1. Your friends need to do some research, one can have more energy being vegetarian, be faster (less waste in your system from meat). They probably don't eat healthily (not an apple a day spheal, but balanced.)

I'm not an expert by any means but isn't protein from meat important for energy and strength? How do vegetarians get enough protein?

[vanpaun]

I'm not an expert by any means but isn't protein from meat important for energy and strength? How do vegetarians get enough protein?
that is the largest misconception. a tofu hotdog has 9grams of fat. They also have like 22grams of

[vanpaun]

protein. I can eat like 2. That Is plenty of protein for anyone. Meat sits in your system for a long time. Vegatables & fruit don't. Now i'm not saying a little meat is bad for you, in a well balanced diet it can be good. But regardless, production doesnttreat

[vanpaun]

their cows well. 1% of american vegetarians have heart attacks. Closer to 50% of meat eaters in america have heart attacks: Healthier? yes. Hard? yes. Worth it? yes.

[BluntRM]

Bruce Lee was a vegetarian.

[uni57]

1% of american vegetarians have heart attacks. Closer to 50% of meat eaters in america have heart attacks: Healthier? yes. Healthier? Not necessarily.

I would say that most vegetarians are health-conscious. After all, they've chosen what they perceive to be a healthy diet. So, what other positive health choices have they made? Not to smoke? Not to drink? To exercise?

How many health-conscious meat-eaters have heart attacks? Maybe 1%??? We don't know. You can't compare vegetarians to the unwashed masses.

[kington99]

I'm not an expert by any means but isn't protein from meat important for energy and strength? How do vegetarians get enough protein?


No, protein is important, the fact that it comes from meat is entirely irrelevant. There are non-meat foodstuffs that are rich in protein to fill your dietary needs.

[uni57]

There are non-meat foodstuffs Your hesitation to call them food is justified.

[BluntRM]

Protein: Beans, tofu, mushrooms, peppers, broccoli, cauliflower, noodles, peanut butter, cheeses, cereals, oats, grains, breads, nuts, potatoes, rice, strawberries, bananas, raisins, corn, avocados, carrots, oranges, pineapples, regular apples, fruit juice, spinach, tomatoes, yams...

[BluntRM]

There's this commercial for a fiber supplement, where a woman is exasperated by how hard it is to get a government serving of fiber each day--- she's hurriedly eating carrots in the car, veggies at the office, a stalk of broccoli and an apple simultaneously while walking on the treadmill and she finally throws her arms up in defeat, incredulous, agreeing with the commercial's announcer that it's impossible to get all those servings of fiber within a day. Completely consumer retarded and unable to eat a reasonable diet in her "busy" day without exaggerating; perhaps a baloney-sandwich-pizza-sub with ranch dressing, cramming emotions into an impulse thick cheese steak, yellow matter custard, etc., etc.. I'm done.

[peleschramm]

Sorry guys, I am no longer Vegetarian.:(

[yoopers]

Sorry guys, I am no longer Vegetarian.:(
You deserve a trophy for a great effort.

.

[vanpaun]

not enough will power Pele? A1 is delicious and vegetarian.

[unicycledood]

You deserve a trophy for a great effort.

.

Lol that trophy made me laugh.

And ummm do oranges really have protein???? Thats news to me.
But yeah, plenty of other ways to get b12, vitimins, iron and protein.





Basically, I don't think I'm important enough that an animal has to die for me to have a snack. Maybe if I were Luke c or Shaun. But I'm not :p

[peleschramm]

Basically, I don't think I'm important enough that an animal has to die for me to have a snack. Maybe if I were Luke c or Shaun. But I'm not :p
I don't think so for me either, But still I blew it. I wish I was just a vegetarian from the beginning. All my favorite foods have meat in them.

[unicycledood]

o well, the thought is there.

[kypa]

Hello

This is my first message in this forum, and my english is not quite well but i'm going to try.

Now i eat all kind of food, but until 3 years ago i was higienist, i eat a little meat but i think is not necesary for the body. The proteins that we eat, our body changes to amino acids, and the build its own proteins. There are only (i think) 6 essetial amino acids, and they build al kind of proteins.
I'm really sure that is not neccesary eat meat. Al aminoacids that we need can obtain of the vegetables.

One more thing about this, to digest meat we consume more energy that the we obtain of these meat. Is better eat vegetables, the problem is the time to cook them, now i can, but not alwais is possible for me.

When i talk to someone that i don't eat meaqt, or i don't drink milk they always try to convince me that is not good. Always is the same, they don't understand.

[Borges]

Hi kypa, and welcome. :)

One more thing about this, to digest meat we consume more energy that the we obtain of these meat.

I sometimes hear the same thing about some vegetables too. Unfortunately it's wishful thinking by someone who wants to be able to eat all they want and still loose weight. There isn't really anything that we normally call food that won't give you at least some energy.

[peleschramm]

I sometimes hear the same thing about some vegetables too. Unfortunately it's wishful thinking by someone who wants to be able to eat all they want and still loose weight. There isn't really anything that we normally call food that won't give you at least some energy.
I hear celery...

[ConiferMuni]

the WHO recommends you get 5% of your calories from protein (6% if you're pregnant). Most western diets include 18 - 20% protein.

percent of calories derived from protein in:
rice - 8%
corn - 12%
baked potato - 10%
pinto beans - 24%
broccolli - 43%
cauliflower - 33%
zucchini - 17%
orange - 9%
strawberries - 8%

So, unless you are calorie deprived, you are very unlikely to be protein deprived, even with a completely vegetarian diet.

[yoopers]

Presenting The Lowell Burger!
.

[unibikeling]

I'm only veggie now in the off days i guess. When my parents dont force me to eat meat.

Atleast i won a battle, they buy free range beef/chicken and organic fish lol...

Yeah, otherwise i'll be veg for like a week, or two at the most, then they'll make burgers. (free range burgers, not so bad). Maybe a day or two of that, then back to veggie.

I really wanted my beliefs and stuff to rub off on my parents, so they'd eat healthier. They try and eat really healthy, and not take in a lot of fats... But they just cant see to NOT do that.

eh... whatever.

[BillyTheMountain]

do you think the "empty calorie" eater appreciation thread would get much traction here?

donuts, cake, candy, sweet drinks.

[vanpaun]

Yeah, probabally. I was going to yell at you cause you necroed, but, you are Billy the Mountain.

Leonardo Davinci was vegetarian. He didn't want to be an animal cemetary.

[AEV D.]

hi..
i am a vegetarian but not really because of the animals, i am vegetarian because in any reason i stopped to like meat..

[BillyTheMountain]

Yeah, probabally. I was going to yell at you cause you necroed, but, you are Billy the Mountain.

Leonardo Davinci was vegetarian. He didn't want to be an animal cemetary.

Yell away. It's healthy, aqnd in case you hadn't noticed, I actually LIKE that kind of thing.

Necroed? you can be a vegetarian and still eat only empty calories, if you're careful to avoid lard, like in Oreos.

I was a strict vegetarian for any years==no soups with meat bases, etc, but now we're only veg in the home.

[boisei]

Given that*...

- it's probably not the diet you started out with

I didn't start out with it, but my mother has been a vegetarian from the time of my birth. We had a vegetarian "base" of food with meat added on top. This in contrast to weird behavior I see in some households like not serving green beans without bacon mixed in???

- it's an extreme diet (eliminating an entire food group)

I see it more as not acknowledging it as a food group. You appear to come from the assumption that we are somehow supposed to eat meat. I do not share that assumption.

- there are concerns about getting enough of certain nutrients

By whom? I get far more important nutrients by substituting whole plant foods for the meat and other substances that I don't consider food that are common in the American diet. There's plenty of B12 in good beer :P

Some of the greatest athletes have been vegan. I think they have their bases covered.

... why did you switch to vegetarianism?

It's been a slow processes, and has not come to an end. But health and ecological reasons are dominant.

Truth be told I've never been more than a "flexitarian." I don't mind not fitting into a box. I eat a vegan diet day to day, based on whole plant foods and raw when it makes sense. I try to eat as we evolved to eat, and despite common conceptions of how cavemen lived meat was more of a "feast" event than the foundation of the diet. If there is a worthy "feast" event that would not be the same without taking part, and if the meat meets certain standards, I might have a serving.

First I switched to pescetarianism. I don't remember why. I was just done with most meats and fish seemed OK to me. Then I shifted a bit to sustainable eating - eating primarily locally grown and organic foods. This let other meats back into my diet, and the criteria I would give those who wanted to serve me meat is that I would eat meat that could be traced back to a plot of land where its food grew. My true criteria were a bit more detailed, but that generally got us to the right place.

In my aim to reach my athletic potential, I have recently shifted to my basically vegan whole foods diet except for the occasional "feast" that might include some local organic and sustainably raised meats.

... how much research did you do before switching?

Alot.

... do you feel better on this diet? Or the same?

*tons* better.

... do you ever miss meat (like bacon)? I know I would.

No. But then I don't exactly give myself a chance to crave it do I? But bacon? Come on. No, I can't remember the last time I ate bacon.

[unicycledood]

If you ever miss meat, then being a vegetarian probably isnt for you.

I never miss meat, I guess its just because I know its not worth it.

[JJuggle]

If you ever miss meat, then being a vegetarian probably isnt for you.

I never miss meat, I guess its just because I know its not worth it.
I can say that I miss eating meat all the time. I was just commenting to my wife last night that I've been craving a cheeseburger. And I rarely pass a barbeque without a bit of salivating.

I say this only because meat, unlike say nicotine, is not addictive and, missing it or not, one can go without it easily if one has decided that there are compelling health and/or ethical reasons to do so.

[unicycledood]

I have cheeseburgers all the time :p

Just put lots of mayo and bbq sauce on it.

[munkey uni]

yay!
go the vegos.
i have been vegetarian for about 6 or 7 years.

[padst3r]

I decided to switch to vegetarian only 3 days ago and i feel much better that i have made the change.Here is the video that will change my life for good :D http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4

[yoopers]

I decided to switch to vegetarian only 3 days ago and i feel much better that i have made the change.Here is the video that will change my life for good :D http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4
Hogwash! The video is nothing but propaganda from PETA or possibly other extremist groups. I hope this particular video wasn't the real reason you decided to go veggie. If so, why would you be suckered into basing your decision to go veggie on one extremist video? Yes, the video is real and the animals in the video are being abused. Yes, the actions in the video are horrifying and sickening and the people performing such acts should be outed and arrested. But from my knowledge and experience, the operations shown in the video are far from the norm.

I live in farm country and have toured slaughter houses (we have one in our community and another in the next town over). I have visited and participated in farming operations (hog, cattle, sheep, chicken) and have found only industries operated at the highest standards. Any good business industry knows the source of their profits and will work hard to protect those interests. Unfortunately, there are those who will criminally cheat the system but again, they are not the norm.

I believe these particular video producers have carefully selected focused cases of abuse to further their agenda and have in essence outright lied by attempting to lead those watching the video to believe that all slaugher and animal operations are performed in such a manner. By drinking milk I'm supporting the horrific veal industry? C'mon. Get real! A good friend in our community has a dairy farm, which we've visited many times, and the milk cows are treated almost like royalty. And why wouldn't they be? They are the money producers, the reason for the business. He also faces both scheduled and unscheduled inspections and operates his business complete above board.

I fully support vegetarianism as a healthy lifestyle and for those who make it a personal choice. I wish I would eat more vegetables. I applaud those with the strength and commitment to lead a vegetarian life. Way to go!

[padst3r]

Well even if it isnt the norm,there are still people out there who treat them like that.I dont know where its coming from when i eat from a fast food restaurant do i ? Theyre still givin growth hormones and other things.

[unibikeling]

Hogwash! The video is nothing but propaganda from PETA or possibly other extremist groups. I hope this particular video wasn't the real reason you decided to go veggie. If so, why would you be suckered into basing your decision to go veggie on one extremist video? Yes, the video is real and the animals in the video are being abused. Yes, the actions in the video are horrifying and sickening and the people performing such acts should be outed and arrested. But from my knowledge and experience, the operations shown in the video are far from the norm.

I live in farm country and have toured slaughter houses (we have one in our community and another in the next town over). I have visited and participated in farming operations (hog, cattle, sheep, chicken) and have found only industries operated at the highest standards. Any good business industry knows the source of their profits and will work hard to protect those interests. Unfortunately, there are those who will criminally cheat the system but again, they are not the norm.

I believe these particular video producers have carefully selected focused cases of abuse to further their agenda and have in essence outright lied by attempting to lead those watching the video to believe that all slaugher and animal operations are performed in such a manner. By drinking milk I'm supporting the horrific veal industry? C'mon. Get real! A good friend in our community has a dairy farm, which we've visited many times, and the milk cows are treated almost like royalty. And why wouldn't they be? They are the money producers, the reason for the business. He also faces both scheduled and unscheduled inspections and operates his business complete above board.

I fully support vegetarianism as a healthy lifestyle and for those who make it a personal choice. I wish I would eat more vegetables. I applaud those with the strength and commitment to lead a vegetarian life. Way to go!


sadly, what your saying, i know isnt true. I can show you many many videos about all of this. Earthlings, Free Me, Free Kevin Kjonaas, and other such videos/song names and stuff have many clips secretly taken of people beating and slaughtering animals.

Yeah, I dont even have a want to eat meat. I'm forced to eat a little every now and then, but i'll only eat it if its free range beef/chicken/organic fish. And even at that, i only buy localy. wahoo. Say yay, for over a month of no meat craving, or want. And the occasional window where ive been able to go 2-3 weeks without meat. Then ruined with a tiny peice of steak that i've been forced to eat. yeah...

woo.

edit: a local farm/slaughter house is typically more ethical. The meat from fast food resturants, or just cheap food comes from factory farms/slaughter houses, which, in my opinion, is extremely bad, and unethical.

sorry if some of that doesnt make sense, i got distracted like 50 times.

[padst3r]

good post :D

[unibikeling]

okay, and another thing, without following videos, i still dont like the ideas of weird things being in my food. I start gagging with a bone peice is in my burger., Its the most friggen nasty thing ever.

I like to be able to know whats in my food.

If we were made to eat animals, we should be able to just bite into a cow. Seriously, look at like all the fruits and veggies, milk, and a lot of other things you dont need to kill for. You can eat them directly from where they came from. I mean, if it comes from a super factory area, it might not be healthy from chemicals and disease. But, you cant take a bite out of a cow..

[MuniAddict]

Is a brain-dead cow a vegetable?:p

[MuniAddict]

If we were made to eat animals, we should be able to just bite into a cow. Well, cave men did-well, mastadons...and um, Jeffery Dhamer probably could have, but I think he preferred humans.:eek:

[unicycledood]

Hogwash! The video is nothing but propaganda from PETA or possibly other extremist groups. I hope this particular video wasn't the real reason you decided to go veggie. If so, why would you be suckered into basing your decision to go veggie on one extremist video? Yes, the video is real and the animals in the video are being abused. Yes, the actions in the video are horrifying and sickening and the people performing such acts should be outed and arrested. But from my knowledge and experience, the operations shown in the video are far from the norm.



This is the norm when it comes to high powered corporations with high demands.

Anyway, theres nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. So if its simpely "propaganda", its not like we're being tricked into doing something we'll one day regret.

[unibikeling]

Well, cave men did-well, mastadons...and um, Jeffery Dhamer probably could have, but I think he preferred humans.:eek:

well, its sorta contridiction in my own beliefs.

I believe the cave men, and our ancestors needed to eat meat, i'm not against that. I just dont believe in how we go about getting meat from the animal. I eat meat when its free range, and i have no other choice really.

jerry dhamer lol...

[wickedbob]

okay, and another thing, without following videos, i still dont like the ideas of weird things being in my food. I start gagging with a bone peice is in my burger., Its the most friggen nasty thing ever.

I like to be able to know whats in my food.

If we were made to eat animals, we should be able to just bite into a cow. Seriously, look at like all the fruits and veggies, milk, and a lot of other things you dont need to kill for. You can eat them directly from where they came from. I mean, if it comes from a super factory area, it might not be healthy from chemicals and disease. But, you cant take a bite out of a cow..

Please explain why I wasn't meant to eat animals, although that is why we're as intelligent as we are. I see no sense in what you say, enlighten me. Do you realise without the protein form meat and such we would have not evolved the way that we did. We naturally starting eating. Why defy mother nature?

[yoopers]

Thought these (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/483674) two videos (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/238494) might fit the most recent threadjack motif.

[unibikeling]

Please explain why I wasn't meant to eat animals, although that is why we're as intelligent as we are. I see no sense in what you say, enlighten me. Do you realise without the protein form meat and such we would have not evolved the way that we did. We naturally starting eating. Why defy mother nature?

i already said, i do believe that we needed to eat animals as caveman, and later on also. But, now, in our day, we dont need to. Why should we have to kill something, when we can get all of the needed nutrition, vitamins, and everything else essential from fruits and veggies, grains and seeds, and milk/eggs and other things we dont need to kill for. Going vegan is the most healthy thing you can do, its a misconception that you wont get all your needed protein.

[yoopers]

If we were made to eat animals, we should be able to just bite into a cow. Seriously, look at like all the fruits and veggies, milk, and a lot of other things you dont need to kill for. You can eat them directly from where they came from. I mean, if it comes from a super factory area, it might not be healthy from chemicals and disease. But, you cant take a bite out of a cow..
First of all, that's one of the most silly things posted so far. Very entertaining mind picture. Thanks for the LOL (in the spirit of another thread :)) Why couldn't I take a bite out of a cow? I have the meat-tearing and ripping incisors, don't I? Thing is, I probably would only get in one bite before I had to hightail it out of the pasture with the cow in hot pursuit.
Please explain why I wasn't meant to eat animals
i do believe that we needed to eat animals as caveman, and later on also. But, now, in our day, we dont need to.
Gotta keep on the same track here, unibikething. Your first quoted post above, "we were made to eat animals" and wickedbobby's "meant to eat animals" are not the same as your second quoted post "need to eat animals." In the first two quotes above, you and badlittlebobby speak of the design of the human body, which includes my meat-tearing and ripping toothies, but then in the third quote above, you elude to making a choice to not eat meat. I'm all for your decision to not eat meat. Good on you and congrats on your courage and passion.

To answer your questionWhy should we have to kill somethingI would answer, "Because we can."

[wickedbob]

First of all, that's one of the most silly things posted so far. Very entertaining mind picture. Thanks for the LOL (in the spirit of another thread :)) Why couldn't I take a bite out of a cow? I have the meat-tearing and ripping incisors, don't I? Thing is, I probably would only get in one bite before I had to hightail it out of the pasture with the cow in hot pursuit.


Gotta keep on the same track here, unibikething. Your first quoted post above, "we were made to eat animals" and wickedbobby's "meant to eat animals" are not the same as your second quoted post "need to eat animals." In the first two quotes above, you and badlittlebobby speak of the design of the human body, which includes my meat-tearing and ripping toothies, but then in the third quote above, you elude to making a choice to not eat meat. I'm all for your decision to not eat meat. Good on you and congrats on your courage and passion.

To answer your questionI would answer, "Because we can."


Shizzle. The last part made me LOL for real.

When did you start giving me a pet names Bruce, that is your name, right?

[wickedbob]

i already said, i do believe that we needed to eat animals as caveman, and later on also. But, now, in our day, we dont need to. Why should we have to kill something, when we can get all of the needed nutrition, vitamins, and everything else essential from fruits and veggies, grains and seeds, and milk/eggs and other things we dont need to kill for. Going vegan is the most healthy thing you can do, its a misconception that you wont get all your needed protein.

I disagree, I need to. We don't have to kill something to get nutrition, we choose to. That is why you get to eat vegetables and I get to slaughter chickens like a bad-a$$.:) Vegan is not the most healthy thing you can do. The most healthy thing you can do it deep-fry a cow and eat it. Yummy, country fried steak!:D

[yoopers]

Shizzle. The last part made me LOL for real.

When did you start giving me a pet names Bruce, that is your name, right?
It's just me being creative...or maybe bored.

Yep. That's my name.

[unibikeling]

I disagree, I need to. We don't have to kill something to get nutrition, we choose to. That is why you get to eat vegetables and I get to slaughter chickens like a bad-a$$.:) Vegan is not the most healthy thing you can do. The most healthy thing you can do it deep-fry a cow and eat it. Yummy, country fried steak!:D

actually, thats one of the ways to take in a lot of fat lol... Well, if it was free range and stuff, it wouldnt taste too bad, or be that bad for you, since not many chemicals would have been consumed by it.

[yoopers]

actually, thats one of the ways to take in a lot of fat lol... Well, if it was free range and stuff, it wouldnt taste too bad, or be that bad for you, since not many chemicals would have been consumed by it.
Hmmm...that describes my venison quite well, too. I guess you can't get much more free range that wild game, eh?

[wickedbob]

actually, thats one of the ways to take in a lot of fat lol... Well, if it was free range and stuff, it wouldnt taste too bad, or be that bad for you, since not many chemicals would have been consumed by it.

No, it's a way to take in a lot of awesome, your worng.

Regular beef taste fine. It tastes more than fine. Regular beef is awesome. Anyways raising stuff free-range is mean. You make it a happy little cow than kill it, wtf? At least make it live a horrible life all eh way to keep some consistency. The only thing you vegetarians do consistently..... I'll think of something later:p .

Chemicals? I don't care. Your crazy, like my mother, the chemicals probably don't affect the taste at all, or very little and if they do they add that 'it' factor.

[wickedbob]

It's just me being creative...or maybe bored.

Yep. That's my name.


I feel special.:)

Well how is it going brucey-boy? Have you eaten your recommended amount of meat for the day? I have, and boy, was it good!

[unibikeling]

No, it's a way to take in a lot of awesome, your worng.

Regular beef taste fine. It tastes more than fine. Regular beef is awesome. Anyways raising stuff free-range is mean. You make it a happy little cow than kill it, wtf? At least make it live a horrible life all eh way to keep some consistency. The only thing you vegetarians do consistently..... I'll think of something later:p .

Chemicals? I don't care. Your crazy, like my mother, the chemicals probably don't affect the taste at all, or very little and if they do they add that 'it' factor.

i'm not talking taste here. Chemicals that could cause cancer, and illneses.

[wickedbob]

i'm not talking taste here. Chemicals that could cause cancer, and illneses.

Could? Could? Everything causes cancer, don't live in fear, join meat eating contests. Besides if they do, who cares? We're all going to die so might as well eat as much meat as humanly possible while your around.

[yoopers]

I feel special.:)

Well how is it going brucey-boy? Have you eaten your recommended amount of meat for the day? I have, and boy, was it good!
My wife fixed venison tacos tonight. I had two with cheese, lettuce and salsa. Had a ham sammy for lunch. We're also eating more fruit though, a conscious decision to eat more healthy-like.

[wickedbob]

My wife fixed tacos tonight. I had two with cheese, lettuce and salsa. Had a ham sammy for lunch. We're also eating more fruit though, a conscious decision to eat more healthy-like.

Tacos are good stuff, I had myself some chicken sandwiches tonight and 2 dbl cheeseburgers for lunch.

Well that's dandy, I enjoy fruit quite often myself. I have to say, kiwis are my favorite.

[The UniSLAB]

These threads are always the best

[unibikeling]

These threads are always the best

yes, i know

Hey, chris, hows the frame building/plannign going?

[yoopers]

Tacos are good stuff, I had myself some chicken sandwiches tonight and 2 dbl cheeseburgers for lunch.

Well that's dandy, I enjoy fruit quite often myself. I have to say, kiwis are my favorite.
Went camping last weekend. It seems the fruit of the weekend was mangos. I'd really not had them much before. Man, were they good!

Then we had sausage and egg breakfast burritos and put slices of avacado inside. Yum!

I extend my great appreciation to our forum vegetarians. You are an inspiration. There's so much fruit and veggie goodness to eat.

[unibikeling]

Went camping last weekend. It seems the fruit of the weekend was mangos. I'd really not had them much before. Man, were they good!

Then we had sausage and egg breakfast burritos and put slices of avacado inside. Yum!

I extend my great appreciation to our forum vegetarians. You are an inspiration. There's so much veggie goodness to eat.


OO! I need to go buy some mangos tomorrow, as well as go buy a case for my camera which is comming tomorrow, as well as film.

To buy list -
hard shell case, and soft shell
HDV's
Mangos
Apples
Non ripe Necotorines (when their yellow/orange, they taste so amazing that way)
maybe some asparagus, that'd be a nice snack the whole time.


i should bring with some soy meal substitute stuff, thats pretty good. Maybe tortillas, cheese, chips, and DEFINITELY tobasco sauce. I think a fire toasted quesadilla would be to die for. Maybe roast some asperigus.

Hmm... what else should i bring also...

(im going camping for 2 or 3 nights)

[wickedbob]

A gun, to kill yourself.


You know I be kidding nugga.

[BillyTheMountain]

ttp://videos.komando.com/2008/06/26/christian-the-lion/

[unibikeling]

:)

thread from the dead bitch.

i guess.

EVERYONE RALLY AGAINST BEN

I'm playin, but your still wrong ben.

[UniKid2]

No Hattin man... I knew you bumped it.. lol

[Biggestbtc]

:)

thread from the dead bitch.

i guess.

EVERYONE RALLY AGAINST BEN

I'm playin, but your still wrong ben.
All Omnivores: Harken! 'Tis I!

[unibikeling]

All Omnivores: Harken! 'Tis I!

so, do you believe in eating McDonalds and fast food resturants? and factory farms? and animal abuse?

[unibikeling]

oh yeah,


my veggie burger is so tasty.

Vege- The earth would be greener is everyone was veggie -Tarian

[Rezinha]

oh yeah,


my veggie burger is so tasty.

vege- the earth would be greener is everyone was veggie -tarian

om nom nom nom!!

[unicycledood]

I suck... I eat at McDonalds... No meat of course, but I still support them by eating all the fries and frozen cokes...

[unibikeling]

I suck... I eat at McDonalds... No meat of course, but I still support them by eating all the fries and frozen cokes...

sorry to say man, but the fries have meat in them.

yup.

look at their ingredient lists.

[Rezinha]

sorry to say man, but the fries have meat in them.

yup.

look at their ingredient lists.

wut? :confused:

[UniKid2]

lol wut?

[unibikeling]

wut? :confused:

McDonalds french fries contain beef extract i'm pretty sure.

lol wut?

same wolfgang



its to give it more taste or something.

edit: in the fry.

[Biggestbtc]

so, do you believe in eating McDonalds and fast food resturants? and factory farms? and animal abuse?
All those things aren't not really good.


my veggie burger is so tasty.

I had one of those last Friday! There are good in their own respect. I would never put them on the same plane as an Angus burger though.

McDonalds french fries contain beef extract i'm pretty sure.

its to give it more taste or something.

edit: in the fry.

I believe that. Bacon grease also makes everything taste good. :)

[JJuggle]

McDonalds french fries contain beef extract i'm pretty sure.
That is correct. From the McDonald's website:

Potatoes, vegetable oil (canola oil, hydrogenated soybean oil, natural beef flavor [wheat and milk derivatives]*), citric acid (preservative), dextrose, sodium acid pyrophosphate (maintain color), salt. Prepared in vegetable oil ((may contain one of the following: Canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil, hydrogenated soybean oil with TBHQ and citric acid added to preserve freshness), dimethylpolysiloxane added as an antifoaming agent). *
CONTAINS: WHEAT AND MILK (Natural beef flavor contains hydrolyzed wheat and hydrolyzed milk as starting ingredients).

[UniKid2]

lol.. Anywhom... theres a vegitarian haterz thread too I think.

[unibikeling]

All those things aren't not really good.


I had one of those last Friday! There are good in their own respect. I would never put them on the same plane as an Angus burger though.



I believe that. Bacon grease also makes everything taste good. :)

yay for you supporting some of the most ethically wrong things in the world. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy ben.

[Biggestbtc]

But then I probably eat meat that is the result of such practices. It's discouraging, but not enough to de-omnivorize me.

Has anyone seen that vid from this factory farm or whatev where the guy is moving this cow around...with a forklift? Bad stuff.

[peleschramm]

What would you guys think if a way to breed mindless animals was discovered? Like, still growing meat, but as though the animals were vegetables? What would you guys think? I can say that if this method was adopted, I don't think I would feel guilty anymore whenever I eat a burger. Growing meat as though they were plants would mean you are not killing anything with any real emotion or form of consciousness, which I think would take care of the evils of meat production. You can argue that it isn't ethical because it's not natural, but I can't see why that would really matter, as it would sure be a lot better than treating live, thinking, breathing beings like shredded lettuce.

I suck... I eat at McDonalds... No meat of course, but I still support them by eating all the fries and frozen cokes...

Your McDonalds has frozen cokes? Lucky!!!

[padst3r]

Your McDonalds has frozen cokes? Lucky!!!NZ doesnt get McFlurrys though :mad:

[unibikeling]

But then I probably eat meat that is the result of such practices. It's discouraging, but not enough to de-omnivorize me.

Has anyone seen that vid from this factory farm or whatev where the guy is moving this cow around...with a forklift? Bad stuff.

watch earthlings

abou 20 minutes to 24 minutes they show koshure beef.

they have a cow in a big rotator thing, they wash off its neck a lot, then take a huge machette thing and cut open its neck sprayign blood everywhere.

they like saw through the entire neck/head too. I stopped watching cause it actually scared me.

[padst3r]

watch earthlings

abou 20 minutes to 24 minutes they show koshure beef.

they have a cow in a big rotator thing, they wash off its neck a lot, then take a huge machette thing and cut open its neck sprayign blood everywhere.

they like saw through the entire neck/head too. I stopped watching cause it actually scared me.
you gave us a very thorough description lol

EDIT: OH GOD I just watched some of the earthlings video on google video.Not too good is it

[unibikeling]

you gave us a very thorough description lol

EDIT: OH GOD I just watched some of the earthlings video on google video.Not too good is it

yup.

see the part where the guy is shooting pigs with what looks to be a Desert Eagle handgun?

[padst3r]

yup.

see the part where the guy is shooting pigs with what looks to be a Desert Eagle handgun?
no i closed it after seeing the cows

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

What would you guys think if a way to breed mindless animals was discovered? Like, still growing meat, but as though the animals were vegetables? What would you guys think? I can say that if this method was adopted, I don't think I would feel guilty anymore whenever I eat a burger. Growing meat as though they were plants would mean you are not killing anything with any real emotion or form of consciousness, which I think would take care of the evils of meat production. You can argue that it isn't ethical because it's not natural, but I can't see why that would really matter, as it would sure be a lot better than treating live, thinking, breathing beings like shredded lettuce.

PETA was actually sponsoring scientists to find a way to "grow" meat from stem cells.

I still wouldn't eat it cuz it's yucky.

[peleschramm]

PETA was actually sponsoring scientists to find a way to "grow" meat from stem cells.

I still wouldn't eat it cuz it's yucky.

I think that would be cool.

Jackie, some meat can be very delicious!

[Brian O.]

I think that would be cool.

Jackie, some meat can be very delicious!

Just because something tastes pleasant doesn't mean its wise to eat it.

[Rezinha]

I think that would be cool.

Jackie, some meat can be very delicious!

Ew, no.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

Jackie, some meat can be very delicious!

I don't react very well to it... I like mild food best.

[Brian O.]

I love meat more than anything, and i am stilling giving vegetarianism a go.
Thats almost exactly what I said three years ago and I haven't eaten any since then.

[peleschramm]

Just because something tastes pleasant doesn't mean its wise to eat it.

True. Very true indeed Brian. I have tried becoming Vegetarian, and I will probably try it again sometime soon.

However, I would not feel the need to give up 2/3 of the small amount of food that I actually like if meat was actually grown like plants, and did not involve the massacre of millions of living, conscious, and emotional organisms. Not only the massacre, but also the mistreatment of course.

Edit: When I was Vegetarian, in those two weeks, I ended up basically only eating olive pizza for lunch, and that was pretty much it. You can only eat so much pizza... I am extremely picky.

But I think it may be time to give it another go... maybe I will. I think my coworker said that if I tried it again she would try it with me. I'll ask her if she's still up for that. It's quite a commitment though...