Of interest to any Goths out there

[Mikefule]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/7370637.stm

A terribly sad story, but some very positive comments from the Judge about the "Goth community".

[lpounds]

Goodness... that is just sickly.

Is there an equivalent to a Youth Offenders Act overseas?

...Something that says that people under a certain age cannot go to adult jail and cannot be sentenced to life in prison.

[wobbling bear]

I am sad at this subculture of thuggishness one may encounter in England: it is the only place where total strangers make deprecative comments and insults towards a gray-haired gentleman on a unicycle (me).:(
everywhere else even the most shady characters issue positive comments and jokes...
for sure most of the time you also meet gentlemen and ladies with humour ... the differences are striking!

[SqueakyOnion]

I feel they deserve to go to an adult jail.

At age 15-17, young men should know the difference between right and wrong enough not to beat someone to death for being different.

Since they are juveniles, they don't deserve life in prison, but I feel they do deserve to go to prison.


Maybe it's just because I'm an American, and we like to lock people up :o

[Mikefule]

I think we worry too much about the supposed reasons,and not enough about the actual actions. I had a lousy upbringing, but I've never beaten anyone to death. Instead, I got a job and have spent 27 years working full time, and paying taxes which partly go to pay for the police, probation services, defence lawyers, court system, appeals procedure and prison system to deal with these thuggish boneheads.

[ivan]

I think we worry too much about the supposed reasons,and not enough about the actual actions. I had a lousy upbringing, but I've never beaten anyone to death. Instead, I got a job and have spent 27 years working full time, and paying taxes which partly go to pay for the police, probation services, defence lawyers, court system, appeals procedure and prison system to deal with these thuggish boneheads.
So, how would you go about worrying about the actions? Put more cameras in public places? Equip cameras with remotely operated lasers to cook offenders on the spot?

I think that there's a whole cultural problem, sort of like the article said. I don't know how to solve it, and it only seems to be getting worse, from what I hear. But I think finding the reasons and causes and changing those would do more than just punishing the actions. I mean this sort of things happen every day in your country, don't they?

Also, why did you have a lousy upbringing? Weren't you raised by an African tribe or something like that? Sounds good enough to me:) Or was it a bad tribe? Cannibals? :eek:

[tobbogonist]

That is terrible, someone should beat those youths up for all looking the same.

well they shouldn't...

[tobbogonist]

hmm. My newsreader said they where jailed for life..

[Eddbmxdude]

Fucking chavscum hoodrat bastards! Im sick of the chav society in this country. Knock dowen all the council houses and deport anyone that doesn't pay tax.

They deserve life, just a shame that life is not long enough, life should mean life.

[ntappin]

Thats just disgusting, I can't believe someone could actualy go throw with that much brutal force over nothing.

This is the kind of thing we expect by large racist groups and not by seemingly normal citizens. Not that we should expect it from anyone, but at least if you see a big group of KKK coming down the street you know what to expect.

[DarkTom]

I am sad at this subculture of thuggishness one may encounter in England: it is the only place where total strangers make deprecative comments and insults.......!

Don't you forget Scotland too! Glasgow is so fucking shitty and the folk are so nasty I don't ride in public anymore. And I live in the 'cultural' west end. Shite.

The whole country is fucked, and so are we. It's just a matter of time now. Enjoy it while (if) you can.


T.

[Mikefule]

Glasgow is so fucking shitty and the folk are so nasty I don't ride in public anymore. And I live in the 'cultural' west end. Shite.

The whole country is fucked, and so are we. It's just a matter of time now. Enjoy it while (if) you can.

Avoid causing unnecessary offence and increase your word power: kill two birds with one stone.

Try, "Glasgow is in an advanced state of social and economic decline which is utterly reprehensible. The people can be positively egregious - so much so that I seldom ride, even in the more sophisticated areas of town. It's truly deplorable.
"The whole country is suffering from a similar malaise, and, in consequence, I observe all around me that standards of social interaction are deteriorating rapidly. The situation seems unlikely to improve. Sad as it may seem to us now, these may indeed be the times that in future we regard as our Halcyon days."

[bungalistic]

I see no point in the jail term any of them has been given it serves no purpose at all, it will not change those involved and it will cost us (the tax payer) our money to keep them in there, better off to end all of their lives now.

[SqueakyOnion]

, better off to end all of their lives now.

...are you serious?

[Mikefule]

Also, why did you have a lousy upbringing? Weren't you raised by an African tribe or something like that?

I think the reference to the African tribe is a jokey reference to something I posted ages ago.:)

Obviously in a public forum I won't go into too much personal detail, but there were several aspects of my upbringing that are statistically associated with a person turning out "bad". Fortunately after some close scrapes at school, I went into a steady job and managed to hang onto it for long enough to get where I am today (wherever that is). At 45 years old, I am just starting to make some headway in repairing the damage. Whatever I am today is despite, not because of, my upbringing.

[JJuggle]

I see no point in the jail term any of them has been given it serves no purpose at all, it will not change those involved and it will cost us (the tax payer) our money to keep them in there, better off to end all of their lives now.
Sometimes it is not about the money.

[bungalistic]

...are you serious?

I'll let you decide that, I just don't see the point in some prison sentences is all and think perhaps there should be some other way to punish, reform or do something to certain people out there.

What I would like to see is some way of taking people away from these paths that lead them to such hideous/criminal activity before it actually happens so that they can lead a more productive life.

[thejdw]

Fucking chavscum hoodrat bastards! Im sick of the chav society in this country. Knock down all the council houses and deport anyone that doesn't pay tax.

I agree, we are too soft on people who don't care about earning money and find violence fun.

[JJuggle]

What I would like to see is some way of taking people away from these paths that lead them to such hideous/criminal activity before it actually happens so that they can lead a more productive life.
That would certainly be the most desirable of circumstances. No question about it.

However, that clearly isn't the situation now and is almost certainly not universally possible. And some people do come back from having committed even the most heinous of crimes and go on to lead decent sometimes admirable lives. That does not obviate the need for punishment but it does argue against the death penalty. At least in my opinion it does.

[bungalistic]

Ok sorry sometimes I just get very annoyed at the justice system in this country, people just seem to get away with far too much, a slap on the wrist and wag of the finger and then they let them go, just doesn't seem right to me.

[Eddbmxdude]

Avoid causing unnecessary offence and increase your word power: kill two birds with one stone.

Try, "Glasgow is in an advanced state of social and economic decline which is utterly reprehensible. The people can be positively egregious - so much so that I seldom ride, even in the more sophisticated areas of town. It's truly deplorable.
"The whole country is suffering from a similar malaise, and, in consequence, I observe all around me that standards of social interaction are deteriorating rapidly. The situation seems unlikely to improve. Sad as it may seem to us now, these may indeed be the times that in future we regard as our Halcyon days."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa!
I would LOVE to hear DarkTom say that!

[GILD]

Absolutely shocking.

The memorial bench is a wonderful gesture.

20 years ago it would've been Millwall youths beating up a kid in a ManU shirt.
I'm not sure this is progress.

[wobbling bear]

unfortunately an event just happened in France where the poor "goth" was the assaillant.
age 15 or 16 , gothic appearance, other youngsters were poking fun at him all the time... anger grew and he decided to kill with a knife. result: 4 woundeds inclunding himself (one nearly died).
again a sad problem of social interaction ... so it may happen everywhere. next time could be nearby.....
the overall feeling is pity for the victims ... and for the perpetrator.

fellow unicyclists: evangelize unicyclism as a path to zen attitude !

[ridethelobster2008]

Well,
"Feral" is essentially Darwinian. No conscience, no thought for others, no sense of consequences. I fear for the world. We are devolving, going backward.
You just don't beat someone to death because you don't like the way they look.

Jesus wept. I weep. God all mighty, there is something very wrong here.

Best from the right coast of Canada, where we do not pummel people to death as a matter of course.
Wobble on.
william

[JJuggle]

Well,
"Feral" is essentially Darwinian. No conscience, no thought for others, no sense of consequences. I fear for the world. We are devolving, going backward.
You just don't beat someone to death because you don't like the way they look.

Jesus wept. I weep. God all mighty, there is something very wrong here.

Best from the right coast of Canada, where we do not pummel people to death as a matter of course.
Wobble on.
william
I do not post this as a slap in your face, but to illustrate how easily claims of peacefulness by any group can be challenged.

Youth to stand trial in girl's beating death
Canadian Press
20 September 2007
The Globe and Mail
2007 CTVglobemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Montreal -- A 15-year-old boy charged with killing a 14-year-old girl has been found fit to stand trial.

Francesca St-Pierre's badly beaten body was found last month in northeast Montreal after she went missing from the group home where she was staying.

The teenage boy, who cannot be named, faces a first-degree murder charge in connection with the girl's death. A psychiatric report tabled in a Montreal youth Court yesterday concluded that the suspect is able to face the charge.

The youth has asked to be tried in front of a judge and jury.

[Mikefule]

20 years ago it would've been Millwall youths beating up a kid in a ManU shirt.
I'm not sure this is progress.

1977-9 for me it was mods, rockers, teds and punks. On the whole, no one got hurt, and certainly no one got killed. It was boys will be boys, and lots of rivalry and posturing.

[Mikefule]

Well,
"Feral" is essentially Darwinian. ...We are devolving, going backward.



Pedantically: evolution is always forwards. The garden slug is as perfectly evolved as the great white shark, the cheetah or the human.

Evolution is about survival of the "fittest". That is often misunderstood. "Fittest" does not mean "strongest and healthiest". It means "best fitted" (or suited) to your niche.

So if society creates a niche for people who can live on benefits in social housing, do no work, and eat all they want and breed as much as they like, with no consequences, someone will evolve to fit that niche.

[DarkTom]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa!
I would LOVE to hear DarkTom say that!

Maybe one day....

.... if I can be arsed.


I have a plenty of word power, but I believe in speaking in a way that is comfortable for the speaker.

Get it up ye!


'mon the goths!



T.

[wobbling bear]

So if society creates a niche for people who can live on benefits in social housing, do no work, and eat all they want and breed as much as they like, with no consequences, someone will evolve to fit that niche.
oh C'mon: roses have been known to grow on dung! ;)

[Mikefule]

oh C'mon: roses have been known to grow on dung! ;)

Quite right. One or two roses for every few million germs.:p

[DarkTom]

T.

[kington99]

oh now i get it

[GILD]

Goth killer wins sentence reduction

Oct 29 2008

One of two teenage boys who murdered a young woman in a park because she was dressed as a Goth has won a reduction in his sentence at the Court of Appeal.

The Lord Chief Justice, Lord Judge, and two other judges in London cut the minimum term to be served by Ryan Herbert, 16, from 16 years and three months to 15 years and six months. (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/breaking-news/2008/10/29/goth-killer-wins-sentence-reduction-100252-22143708/)

[JJuggle]

[URL="http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/breaking-news/2008/10/29/goth-killer-wins-sentence-reduction-100252-22143708/"]Goth killer wins sentence reduction
I would have phrased the headline, "Killer of goth wins sentence reduction".

Also, not to trivialize this, but 9 months off the sentence hardly seems newsworthy. It's like when at dinner we'd let our daughter eat only 8 green beans instead of the originally agreed upon 10.

[GILD]

I have to agree.
I'm sure 9months is a long time when you're in jail, but by the time you've been there 15years and 6months, surely you're used to it enough to hang in there for another 9?

Either way, it was an update and just too bizarre a one at that NOT to post.

[Fraggle]

How on earth did I guess that the culprits would be useless chav idiots? :rolleyes:

BMX-ers skaters and goths used to get loads of trouble from chavs where I used to live, till we decided to beat them in any time they tried anything towards us. Since then there was minimal trouble. Now I live in a different place, and it's the same problems in a different place. Just the yesterday there was some chav with a nipper, encouraging the nipper to talk like a complete halfwit. Bloody degenerate scum.

better off to end all of their lives now.

I'd suggest that. Ok, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, but a blind world would have a hell of a lot less discrimination in it.

[BurnerDave]

Goodness... that is just sickly.

Is there an equivalent to a Youth Offenders Act overseas?

...Something that says that people under a certain age cannot go to adult jail and cannot be sentenced to life in prison.

If there is, it wouldn't make a difference. In Canada, major crimes, like murder, still get passed up into adult court. Rightly so.

[john_childs]

Just the yesterday there was some chav with a nipper, encouraging the nipper to talk like a complete halfwit. Bloody degenerate scum.

In the British vernacular, what is meant by "nipper"?

[samwii]

Thats sick. The sooner I can get out of this country the better. Id rather be in a room full with goths than them Chavs who killed her. I hate chavs. What other countries suffer from the chav problem??

[Gadge]

In the British vernacular, what is meant by "nipper"?

"Nipper" is a child.

[john_childs]

"Nipper" is a child.

Ah, separated by a common language again.
Over here it can be a not so polite term for a Japanese person.

[Gadge]

Ah, separated by a common language again.
Over here it can be a not so polite term for a Japanese person.

Aha, yes "nip" can be used the same way over here but I've not heard it used that way for quite some time. But not as "nipper" which would be a child.

Maybe there should be a thread for the subtle differences between our languages? Or maybe it's already been done?

[JJuggle]

Ah, separated by a common language again.
Over here it can be a not so polite term for a Japanese person.
I can't remember a time when my family didn't boycott these:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/suesue789/cheesenips.jpg

[Fraggle]

Aha, yes "nip" can be used the same way over here but I've not heard it used that way for quite some time. But not as "nipper" which would be a child.

Maybe there should be a thread for the subtle differences between our languages? Or maybe it's already been done?

Yeah, I meant child.

[wickedbob]

What exactly is a chav?

[kington99]

What exactly is a chav?

The british version of white trash. usually youths, living in inner city areas, living off benefit, who spend their time taking drugs, drinking and fighing people who look much weaker than them or who are significantly out numbered. They are typified by their sportswear, their can of special brew and their lack of moral fibre and decency.

Fo the true chav experience, check out Devvo (http://www.fat-pie.com/chavs.htm), yes in this case it's an act, but they really are this bad.

[wickedbob]

The british version of white trash. usually youths, living in inner city areas, living off benefit, who spend their time taking drugs, drinking and fighing people who look much weaker than them or who are significantly out numbered. They are typified by their sportswear, their can of special brew and their lack of moral fibre and decency.

Fo the true chav experience, check out Devvo (http://www.fat-pie.com/chavs.htm), yes in this case it's an act, but they really are this bad.

Ah, I see what you mean. Sadly enough I live in an area with a few government owned housing projects. Of course, they take drugs and have the lateast sneakers out.

[Eddbmxdude]

Fo the true chav experience, check out Devvo (http://www.fat-pie.com/chavs.htm), yes in this case it's an act, but they really are this bad.

I thought this newspiece (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pqyU2z-FJr8) summed up chavs pretty well.
Even I found it shocking and where I live we are surround by the fuckers, although not quite as bad as that.
Would love to see what they would do if someone stood up to them. :rolleyes:

[wickedbob]

We have a chav problem where I live, here we call them ghetto trash, or gutter trash. They act the same exact way it seems. Their might be a few differences, like here they all listen to Soulja boy and Lil' Wayne, but they to act tough and jump people. I had a few jump me a while back. Damn fools.

It's odd, before our version of chavs hated goths and all of that scene, now they are beginning to dress like them with the black clothes and skulls. It's rather odd, they all wear skateboarding stuff now as well like DC.