Arguments On The Fora

[Spoonthumb]

Is it just me or does it seem like half the people on these forums are just on here to argue? I will probably not get a kind response in jc because most of the people im talking about are you. It just seems like no matter what you say people here dissect your post and find something that will "offend" them. I really get annoyed and wish that it would move toward a more uni oriented forum. I realize that arguments will always happen i just wish you guys would keep it in jc. I realize that this thread is going to be dissected and i will probably be bashed but whatever...

-discuss

-sorry for the vent

-had to get it off my chest

-thanks

[vanpaun]

ARRR I hate you. Jesus is our savior... Gays suck... Evoloution, smevoloution.. Seriously, i know what you mean by that.

[Pdougherty]

yep. From what I've seen I don't know if I would label them as arguments or debates but rather smart remarks towards someone or something. Although that could be an argument depending how you look at it. It's unfortunate. Along with the stupid, random threads on the forum.

[Spoonthumb]

ARRR I hate you. Jesus is our savior... Gays suck... Evoloution, smevoloution.. Seriously, i know what you mean by that.

funny

[Spoonthumb]

Along with the stupid, random threads on the forum.

which is basically this lol, but i am serious

[phlegm]

Your subject is ambiguous. I thought your intentions were to post links to all the argument thread for easy access!! Now I'll just have to wait for BillyTheMountain to bump them when they reach page 11. :p

[Divebomber]

I tend to think so as well. Debating is fine, but the debates here never come to a conclusion and it's just debating for the sake of it. In all the forums I belong to, this one is has to be the most unorganized and dare I saw it "immature".

[phlegm]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

[harper]

Is it just me or does it seem like half the people on these forums are just on here to argue?

It's just you.

The number of asinine threads started has increased dramatically. In inverse proportion, the ability of the forum population to accurately or coherently express themselves has decreased just as dramatically. To add to the complexity, the sensitivity of forum members has skyrocketed. This is the fun part, people taking innocent comments far, far, far too seriously and over-reacting to simple suggestions or corrections. Nice and volatile, I like that. It's like entering a room filled with huge, red buttons all of which have a "push me" label on them.

This was a courteous, family oriented forum at one time and for the most part, it still is. There is a big push every so often from a whining minority to bust it wide open with foul language and inappropriate, bigoted comments but the population generally self-polices and discourages that kind of behavior. As a result, the folks who want to drag things into the gutter make a big fuss about it and then go away in a huff for awhile. But they always come back, now it's just sooner than before.

[MuniAddict]

It's just you.

The number of asinine threads started has increased dramatically. In inverse proportion, the ability of the forum population to accurately or coherently express themselves has decreased just as dramatically. To add to the complexity, the sensitivity of forum members has skyrocketed. This is the fun part, people taking innocent comments far, far, far too seriously and over-reacting to simple suggestions or corrections. Nice and volatile, I like that. It's like entering a room filled with huge, red buttons all of which have a "push me" label on them.

This was a courteous, family oriented forum at one time and for the most part, it still is. There is a big push every so often from a whining minority to bust it wide open with foul language and inappropriate, bigoted comments but the population generally self-polices and discourages that kind of behavior. As a result, the folks who want to drag things into the gutter make a big fuss about it and then go away in a huff for awhile. But they always come back, now it's just sooner than before.Very well stated. I would add though, that it seems most of the controversial stuff-political, religious, etc.- is here in JC, not RSU.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

I like the debates because people get really worked up and they're funny.
But I usually skip over them cuz I usually don't care a whole lot. You could try that.

[dudewithasock]

I like the debates because people get really worked up and they're funny.
But I usually skip over them cuz I usually don't care a whole lot. You could try that.

Shutup!

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

Shutup!
You're an ignorant bastard!! You obviously don't know anything about this.
Stop wasting my time.

[dudewithasock]

You're an ignorant bastard!! You obviously don't know anything about this.
Stop wasting my time.

Um.

Shutup!

Hah! Take that!

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

Ha! You shutup!!

[MuniAddict]

Can't we all just get along... (island Ice tea!?):D

[chuckaeronut]

LOL, and down the toilet this thread goes. :)

[john_childs]

Um.

Shutup!

Hah! Take that!
Is this actually the thread for abuse? I came here for an argument.

[tomblackwood]

I came here for an argument.
No you didn't. You came here for the same reason you go anywhere...looking for espresso.

[hugo]

It is just like I said before:

There are people in this world who communicate to be offended. And others just use a vocabulary which could potentially offend others - not intentionally, but just because they do not always care about political correctness when they write a post.

Just take the example which has lead to this tread:

"Don't be a woman about that" (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showpost.php?p=977407&postcount=4)

In a world of tolerance and positive thinking, everybody should know what is meant and this is not intentionally a sexist expression. It is based on language that has developed itself over thousands of years. It does not mean that the author of the post wants to offend women. He is only using a forum in the same way like he would talk to his friends, in his community.

Everybody is free to have his own opinion about that. (and you could now be offended because I did not write "his/her").

Just do not abuse a forum to teach political correctness.

[cathwood]

It is just like I said before:

There are people in this world who communicate to be offended. And others just use a vocabulary which could potentially offend others - not intentionally, but just because they do not always care about political correctness when they write a post.

Just take the example which has lead to this tread:

"Don't be a woman about that" (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showpost.php?p=977407&postcount=4)

In a world of tolerance and positive thinking, everybody should know what is meant and this is not intentionally a sexist expression. It is based on language that has developed itself over thousands of years. It does not mean that the author of the post wants to offend women. He is only using a forum in the same way like he would talk to his friends, in his community.
.

I'm sorry but I disagree.

The use of language is important, especially on the internet where there is only language (rather than the non verbal stuff of real life interactions). People have to be much more careful about what they say when we can't judge from their non verbals whether they mean to be offensive or not.

Whether an expression is meant to be sexist or homophobic or not is irrelevant to the person reading the comment. The onus is on the poster to express themselves in an acceptable way, not for the reader to try to decide whether they meant to be offensive or not. It's not that difficult to express yourself using non-offensive language.

I also believe that the casual use of sexist, homophobic, whateverist language is almost more offensive than the offensive use of it because it shows that, although you know that kind of language can be offensive you just don't care enough moderate it. It also causes a kind of pervasive sexism/homophobia/whateverism where the use of offensive language is accepted and people are told that they are too 'senitive' if they don't like it. Victim blaming.

And we are not his friends in his community, we are a group of very disparate people from all over the world. Everyone knows that you moderate your language according to your context (speak differently to your teacher than you do to your little brother). Therefore the language you use on an international forum should reflect this.

However did you think this was a world of tolerance and positive thinking?

(But also this kind of debate is one of the mechanisms for the evolution of language. Language doesn't develop itself, people develop it.)

[hugo]

Thanks Cathy. I really do respect your opinion. But as you already say, we are in disagreement.

It is just sad that a part of today's world finds rules more important than everyting else. Rules are important, we could not live without them. But they are not the only thing that counts.

As long as nobody
- steals
- uses violence
- explicitly offends others
- does harm to others in any way (including environmental pollution)
I will not be offended by their actions in any way.

If you (just as an example, I know you did not do that and you won't do it) call me Asshole, I will not care. Because it is not my problem, it is yours. I am not affected in any way if someone thinks he needs to call me asshole. If he feels better by doing that, fine. I know I am not an asshole.

And to come back to the original example: All women should know that there is no difference in the value of men an women. When someone says "don't be a woman about it" it would just make me smile because I know it is a silly and stupid expression. But it is not my role to play the teacher and stop the person saying such things. It is not worth debating it.

What about the expression "boys don't cry", when a man feels really sad and cries? You could also say this is a sexist expression. But again, I don't care, because I know it is not true and there is no reason for any debate.

We put way too much energy into such things. Instead, we should use this engergy to help each other.

This is my individual opinion and I will not add any more posts to this topic, because it is just not worth the time.

Now let's talk again about unicycling.

[wickedbob]

Burn it, burn it, add the gasoline!

[hugo]

Burn it, burn it, add the gasoline!
You are right and I am sorry about that

[thejdw]

I think he has a good point and that we should follow him.

just my 1 pence

[wickedbob]

I'm burning it to! http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67845&page=3

[wickedbob]

You are right and I am sorry about that

Save the apologies for the trees!... Really, I don't think that was an argument. Just people sharing views respectively, well ok it was. Those aren't really bad though, I think this thread has more to do with the more abrasive arguments that go on here about silly things. The one I am involved in might be a good example. The comment was not also just directed toward you. Arguments will happen, it is natural. It is how we go about them which is the problem in my eyes. Will someone catc this text who knows!

Goodday, Sir!

[cathwood]

Thanks Cathy. I really do respect your opinion. But as you already say, we are in disagreement.

Not about everything, however.


It is just sad that a part of today's world finds rules more important than everyting else. Rules are important, we could not live without them. But they are not the only thing that counts.

As long as nobody
- steals
- uses violence
- explicitly offends others
- does harm to others in any way (including environmental pollution)
I will not be offended by their actions in any way.

Actually I'm rather difficult to offend and even in these cirucmstances would be more interested in reasons rather than being offended.


And to come back to the original example: All women should know that there is no difference in the value of men an women. When someone says "don't be a woman about it" it would just make me smile because I know it is a silly and stupid expression. But it is not my role to play the teacher and stop the person saying such things. It is not worth debating it.


You are obviously not a woman. All women definately do know that there is no difference in the value of men and women. Unfortunately not all men do. For example, in the UK women consistently get paid less than men do for doing the same job.

I'm sorry that you feel that it's a waste of your time to contribute to our discussion because I was rather enjoying it. I love to hear other people's opinons about things. So I for one will continue to contribute to debate and argument in JC and will talk about unicycling on the other part of the forum.

[augustdreamt]

You are obviously not a woman. All women definately do know that there is no difference in the value of men and women.

I agree with you, Cathy, on everything but this, just because I've definitely met my fair share of women and girls who don't know that they are equal to men, which makes, in my opinion, comments like "Don't be a woman about it" even worse. It just reinforces roles and stereotypes that are thriving alive and well in the thinking and culture of too many men and women.

To hugo: I think that most people would agree that saying something like "Don't be a Jew about it" would be pretty uncalled for under any circumstances. So why the defense of the phrase when it's used against women?

For what it's worth, I think that the original poster of this thread completely overreacted to someone bringing attention to the fact that he used a tasteless phrase that some could easily find offensive. No one started being aggro about it until the OP quite rudely flipped out (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?p=977733#post977733) and admitted that yes, he considers women to be inferior street riders at least. In other words, he is about as sexist as his use of the phrase implied.

[Spoonthumb]

i think the thread has strayed...i am just upset that people come on here for only one reason, TO ARGUE. Thats it, if they had something helpfull to say then allright but they dont....

[cathwood]

I agree with you, Cathy, on everything but this, just because I've definitely met my fair share of women and girls who don't know that they are equal to men, which makes, in my opinion, comments like "Don't be a woman about it" even worse. It just reinforces roles and stereotypes that are thriving alive and well in the thinking and culture of too many men and women.

To hugo: I think that most people would agree that saying something like "Don't be a Jew about it" would be pretty uncalled for under any circumstances. So why the defense of the phrase when it's used against women?

For what it's worth, I think that the original poster of this thread completely overreacted to someone bringing attention to the fact that he used a tasteless phrase that some could easily find offensive. No one started being aggro about it until the OP quite rudely flipped out (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?p=977733#post977733) and admitted that yes, he considers women to be inferior street riders at least. In other words, he is about as sexist as his use of the phrase implied.

I agree with your point completely. You're right about some women and girls not understanding that they are as valuable as men or boys. I suppose I only wanted to make the point that more women realise this than men do. (Because women constantly get the message that they're not as valuable from society).

Spoonthum, I wouldn't bother being upset about the arguing. I'm not upset that you are sexist (as the post above pointed out). I rather like debate, although I don't like sexism.

(From one woman who knows her value, even if she isn't good at street)

[Bondo]

As internet forums go this one is pretty tame.

Read a few threads HERE (http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3), in an un-moderated skier forum. Language can be NSFW. people are pretty nasty to newbies,(JONGS) but it is hilarious to read and actually has great info if you sift through some of the more vitrolic posts. It also has some of the best ever trip-reports you're likely to find on any forum.

[mscalisi]

I assume that you would not have made a statement that was blatently racist, so why is it OK to make a statement that is sexist?

You may refer to being weak as being "a woman" in your group of adolescent friends. They all laugh and nobody is offended. However, this is a forum that spans genders, races, generations and sexualities. Are you surprised that you make a statement that really is offensive to a large group of people that are likely to read it and somebody calls you on your shit?

My statement was gentle. Your rebuttle was even more offensive than your originally statement. It shows how deeply sexism is ingrained in your head that you are surprised that someone would find it offensive.

Guess what, act like an asshole, and people are going to argue with you.

i think the thread has strayed...i am just upset that people come on here for only one reason, TO ARGUE. Thats it, if they had something helpfull to say then allright but they dont....

[Spoonthumb]

Guess what, act like an asshole, and people are going to argue with you.

ok, one of the most hypocritical posts i have seen in a long time

allrighty guess what i am sexist...there are no women unicyclers that can compart to shaun j. Show me one and ill retract my statement. It was a statement that didnt deserve a rebuttle and YOU my friend are who i am talking about. All you come on here for is to argue.

[mscalisi]

Where do you draw the line? You can call me names too, and it will roll off my back, but so what? Does that mean we should allow someone to say anything they want about other races, genders, sexes and sexualities and simply let it pass?

People may have the right to be ignorant, but I reserve the right to call them on it, and I will.

I'm sorry but I disagree.

The use of language is important, especially on the internet where there is only language (rather than the non verbal stuff of real life interactions). People have to be much more careful about what they say when we can't judge from their non verbals whether they mean to be offensive or not.

Whether an expression is meant to be sexist or homophobic or not is irrelevant to the person reading the comment. The onus is on the poster to express themselves in an acceptable way, not for the reader to try to decide whether they meant to be offensive or not. It's not that difficult to express yourself using non-offensive language.

I also believe that the casual use of sexist, homophobic, whateverist language is almost more offensive than the offensive use of it because it shows that, although you know that kind of language can be offensive you just don't care enough moderate it. It also causes a kind of pervasive sexism/homophobia/whateverism where the use of offensive language is accepted and people are told that they are too 'senitive' if they don't like it. Victim blaming.

And we are not his friends in his community, we are a group of very disparate people from all over the world. Everyone knows that you moderate your language according to your context (speak differently to your teacher than you do to your little brother). Therefore the language you use on an international forum should reflect this.

However did you think this was a world of tolerance and positive thinking?

(But also this kind of debate is one of the mechanisms for the evolution of language. Language doesn't develop itself, people develop it.)

[mscalisi]

It's a shame that you completely miss my point.

Also please note, that my original post didn't call you names (unlike your rebuttle). It simple pointed out that what you said was inappropriate, and IT IS.

If I like to argue, you certainly give me a perfect reason to do so.

allrighty guess what i am sexist...there are no women unicyclers that can compart to shaun j. Show me one and ill retract my statement. It was a statement that didnt deserve a rebuttle and YOU my friend are who i am talking about. All you come on here for is to argue.

ok, one of the most hypocritical posts i have seen in a long time

[phlegm]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/how_it_works.png

[Spoonthumb]

It's a shame that you completely miss my point.

Also please note, that my original post didn't call you names (unlike your rebuttle). It simple pointed out that what you said was inappropriate, and IT IS.

If I like to argue, you certainly give me a perfect reason to do so.

why was my post inappropriate? what was Untrue about it? Granted i shouldent have called you a dumbass and i am sorry but still. your not making a point.

[Danni]

Don't use "women" in a derogatory term, just like using "gay" to be something stupid.

It's not nice, and you should get out of the habit of using these phrases.
It doesn't bother me, but some people out there (mainly gays and women?) don't like it.

[mscalisi]

You implied that women are so timid as to be afraid to learn to idle. That certainly isn't offensive to your group of teenage male friends, but the readership here is much more broad. It includes actual women.

That may not be what you meant to say, but it is the implication of the literal language you used.

I also understand that sexism is ingrained in language, but it certainly shouldn't be. People who are not a member of the oppressed class don't usually recognize the embedded language that is part of the oppression.

Shaun might be great at street, but I can't think of a man who is better than Kaori at japanese-stye freestyle. I'm pretty sure she wasn't afraid to learn to idle.

why was my post inappropriate? what was Untrue about it? Granted i shouldent have called you a dumbass and i am sorry but still. your not making a point.

[Spoonthumb]

Shaun might be great at street, but I can't think of a man who is better than Kaori at japanese-stye freestyle. I'm pretty sure she wasn't afraid to learn to idle.

i can...and women are timmid as far as learning things on a unicycle...im not trying to be derogitory her but it is the truth...

[wickedbob]

I hate woman they are useless trash, if you odn't liek my opinion stop fussing and don't be a woman about it. Haha, I'm kidding, I just liek to see peopel argue in a thread about arguing and how we do it to much




Mike.


P.S. Don't you got a house to clean?

[augustdreamt]

i can...and women are timmid as far as learning things on a unicycle...im not trying to be derogitory her but it is the truth...

It is not the truth. It is your very prejudiced opinion. I've seen plenty of posts on these fora where guys have expressed fear or nervousness at trying new things such as jump mounts or riding down stairs. What on earth makes you think that being afraid to try new things is limited to one gender (since it obviously is not), or that all women are afraid to try new things on their unis?

[wickedbob]

It is not the truth. It is your very prejudiced opinion. I've seen plenty of posts on these fora where guys have expressed fear or nervousness at trying new things such as jump mounts or riding down stairs. What on earth makes you think that being afraid to try new things is limited to one gender (since it obviously is not), or that all women are afraid to try new things on their unis?

He is support by scientfic fact! Sorry, I don't really think any of this, its just rather funny to see everybody mad in this thread. I f you see this don't let anybody know it will be funny!

[Spoonthumb]

It is not the truth. It is your very prejudiced opinion. I've seen plenty of posts on these fora where guys have expressed fear or nervousness at trying new things such as jump mounts or riding down stairs. What on earth makes you think that being afraid to try new things is limited to one gender (since it obviously is not), or that all women are afraid to try new things on their unis?


your right i hadnt taken that into consideration...

[Spoonthumb]

what im trying to say is that women are fully capable in unicycling as good/better than men. Its just that they dont. once again the thread is straying so i will not be offering any more posts to the whole sexist thing

[amanda.gallacher]

(But also this kind of debate is one of the mechanisms for the evolution of language. Language doesn't develop itself, people develop it.)
Don't use "women" in a derogatory term, just like using "gay" to be something stupid.
How possible is it to not use women in derogatory terms nowadays?
It’s past the times that someone can say that that evening they stopped and picked up a bitch because it was lonely and cold at the side of the road without receiving some funny looks. Many adjectives have pejorated to into a meaning which is used as a derogatory term for women, including “bitch”. However, this is the opposite for men as many adjectives have ameliorated, for example “stallion”.
Like Cathy said, people develop language. If you sat and listed as many derogatory terms for women as possible in one minute, then did the same for derogatory terms for men, no doubt the number for women would be larger.
I realise this has little to no relevance to this thread but figured as we were talking about sexist language I may as well chuck it in.
Everybody is free to have his own opinion about that. (and you could now be offended because I did not write "his/her").
We live in an androcentral world which Hugo has shown. It’s ‘normal’ for people to use his or he to describe a person, or person’s actions. When reading a book, or article it’s rare for this to be she or her unless obviously talking about a woman. This goes as far back as the Bible where all the apostles were male, we speak of the Son of God and God the Father.

We can try stop use of sexist language on the forum, but how deep are people wanting to go with it?

Sorry to keep on with the sexist language 'argument', but it's interesting reading peoples views on it.

[cathwood]

what im trying to say is that women are fully capable in unicycling as good/better than men. Its just that they dont. once again the thread is straying so i will not be offering any more posts to the whole sexist thing


How interesting that Amanda chose join this argument in relation to sexist language and not the ability of female riders. :) Perhaps her skills speak for themselves. (If you don't know Spoonthumb, she is on the Factory team with Sean J)

[Spoonthumb]

How interesting that Amanda chose join this argument in relation to sexist language and not the ability of female riders. :) Perhaps her skills speak for themselves. (If you don't know Spoonthumb, she is on the Factory team with Sean J)

i knew she was on the factory team but i wouldn't compare her skills to shaun j...i will note that she deffinatly has a different style of riding.

also i have slightly thought out what i am trying to say and what im trying to get accross is this. Right now the female riders in the world are few and far between and they are not (except in freestyle flatland type disiplines) on par with the males of unicycling. I am not trying to say that they couldn't i am simply saying that they are not.

Again i am not trying to insult any of the female riders i just am saying that in this point in time they arn't there yet.

[phlegm]

While I do agree that we should be careful not to use X-ist language...

Language itself is made for generalizing, so it's very easy to slip into "unfair generalizing" mode when writing. I know I am guilty of it. I think being thick-skinned is just as important as trying to avoid unfair generalizations when participating in Internet forums.

Also, I wonder if there could be a bit of a generational gap in the role of written communication. Communication through books is relatively formal, whereas communication through speech is relatively informal. Where does Internet communication fit? I see a lot of the older people enjoying the more "thought provoking" topics in JC with more formal dialog, and many younger people seem to prefer the more informal threads with a gazillion posts filled with half-sentences. Maybe I'm just making another unfair generalization... ;)

[maestro8]

We live in an androcentral world which Hugo has shown. It’s ‘normal’ for people to use his or he to describe a person, or person’s actions.
I am all too aware of this, and make sure to pepper my writings with equal parts of "he" and "she". Problem is, people aren't used to such usage of female pronouns, and pounce all over me for being sexist.

You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Divebomber]

ok, one of the most hypocritical posts i have seen in a long time

allrighty guess what i am sexist...there are no women unicyclers that can compart to shaun j. Show me one and ill retract my statement. It was a statement that didnt deserve a rebuttle and YOU my friend are who i am talking about. All you come on here for is to argue.

Who says Shaun J is the god of uni'ing? Also, who says that in order to be good at uni'ing, you must ride street as good as Shaun J? Guess what? I don't ride street. I really don't care to and frankly, find trials and distance more interesting. You're a street rider and therefore, base "good" riders around street masters like Shaun J. But not all us girls are trying to be "great", join the factory team or even do street. In fact, if I can ride around my college campus without falling on my face, I'm set!

People usually argue when they get offended and some of the statements that you've made are rather gross. I'll admit, some people argue for the sake of it or merely want to start a little controversy, but some of the statements you've stated sound biased and rude. I hate the constant "Ride for Christ" stuff because it's a 3 ring circus and no one is really interested in listening to my views. But was what you said really called for? And do you really think people aren't going to "argue" when you say stuff like "there are no women who are as good as Shaun J and no one can measure up..blah..blah"? Remember, there are women here and even if you are sexist and don't think women have it in them to be good or aren't trying, then have some respect and keep it to yourself.

Really guys, just because you have an opinion, doesn't mean I want or need to hear it. Lets at least use a little tact when we debate.

[saskatchewanian]

Woo hoo, this thread id finally reaching its potential for an argument!

i can...and women are timmid as far as learning things on a unicycle...im not trying to be derogitory her but it is the truth...

Oh how wrong you are, I don't know any girls who unicycle (I only know a couple guys who do) but I would not call all women "timid"

I know girls who could beat the crap out of me if they wanted to, I have friends that have backpacked from Mexico to Panama by themselves, I know girls who have broken multiple bones multiple times from skiing and snowboarding, I know a woman who is a bull rider and rodeo queen, I know girls who shoot class 4 rapids cause it's fun, I even know a girl who went on a climbing trip that sadly resulted in her boyfriend dying in a fall. Sure none of them unicycle but I wouldn't call any of them timid.

[wickedbob]

I think he meas it is more normal for men to do extreme things, and we do them much more. We also tend to push the risk factor more. Seriously men do more extreme sports that chicks. Not its good, not that its bad that is just the way it is. Sure there are some woman that participate in such activities, but I'm willing to bet a lot more men do than woman.

[beeper]

Woo hoo, this thread id finally reaching its potential for an argument!


I beg to differ :p

[mscalisi]

If a person wants to, he or she can avoid using third-person singular pronouns in sentences that do not refer to a specific person by substituting a plural third-person pronoun.

If people want to, they can avoid using third-person singular pronouns in sentences that do not refer to a specific person by substituting a plural third-person pronoun.

Also, God should always be referred to as "she". You've never seen a man create life have you?

I am all too aware of this, and make sure to pepper my writings with equal parts of "he" and "she". Problem is, people aren't used to such usage of female pronouns, and pounce all over me for being sexist.

You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[The UniSLAB]

Chicks rule!

Seriously, nothing I've seen on a uni compares to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xuUzuklkoU)

[phlegm]

If a person wants to, he or she can avoid using third-person singular pronouns in sentences that do not refer to a specific person by substituting a plural third-person pronoun.

If people want to, they can avoid using third-person singular pronouns in sentences that do not refer to a specific person by substituting a plural third-person pronoun.

There are a lot of more grammar-friendly ways to accomplish this too. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutral_pronoun) You don't want to offend the grammar-nazis, do you? ;)

[agentQ]

Also, God should always be referred to as "she". You've never seen a man create life have you?

Last time I checked it takes both a man and a woman to create life. Unless the rules have changed.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

i can...and women are timmid as far as learning things on a unicycle...im not trying to be derogitory her but it is the truth...
You're quite right! You decided without any proof supporting your claim, that women are scared to learn tricks on unicycles. The fact that you have no proof is irrelevant.
There arn't many black unicyclists so that must mean black people are afraid to unicycle!!




cut down on the testosterone.

[The UniSLAB]

You're quite right! You decided without any proof supporting your claim, that women are scared to learn tricks on unicycles. The fact that you have no proof is irrelevant.
There arn't many black unicyclists so that must mean black people are afraid to unicycle!!




cut down on the testosterone.

Haha your a funny cat.

Naw but some chicks will just plane go for it. I had one girl just hop on my uni in a dress and slippers (mind you this was on my torker dx with some gnarly pedals) and she did better than I did after a full week of practice.

[Jerrick]

i can...and women are timmid as far as learning things on a unicycle...im not trying to be derogitory her but it is the truth...


You cant be serious?

I know so many girls that have no fear to try anything sports related. I see more guys being the ones afraid to go out and try things.

And you wrote something earlier about you need to see a girl unicycle as well as Shaun J. for you to change you mind about what you said before. That was horrible

EDIT: Didnt realise this was mentioned all ready. lol

[phlegm]

Last time I checked it takes both a man and a woman to create life. Unless the rules have changed.

Maybe?
Sperm made from human bone marrow (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6547675.stm)

[spazdude222]

Is it just me...
Why is everything always about just you? Can't you think of someone else for once? I'm offended by you. :p ;)

[maestro8]

Last time I checked it takes both a man and a woman to create life.
Show us a picture of your child or STFU. :p

[Nimbusnut]

Anyone that thinks women are wimpy never ran into a hillbilly. Seriously, there are some wicked tough people back in those hollows both male, and female. Crap, I just insulted hillbillys. At least I didn't tell about the family that wound up blowing themselves up trying to take apart the boobytraps in their pot field. Crap, I just said booby. Ahhhhhhh!

[MuniAddict]

It's too bad that women don't rule the world! (Maybe they really do!) There wouldn't be any wars..they'd just nag eachother to death! haha jk jk jk jk jk jk JK JK JK!!!!!!;);););););););)

[agentQ]

Show us a picture of your child or STFU. :p


okay I see there is a smiley tongue out face, but the stfu? Im hoping your joke has something to do with the "when in rome" concept being as this an an argument thread.

Even if my Dad had been out for coffee during my conception there surely would have to have been a friendly milk man or someone.

[UniBrier]

When I tell my daughters that they "(kick, throw, run, etc.) like a girl", it's a compliment.

My eldest can out do me on uni skills, seems she passed level 5 in a heart beat. I may be level 4-ever. I think I can out MUni or Trials her still though, but that's only because she wasn't as interested in those.

[agentQ]

Give the kid a break on the girl thing. He didn't word what he was trying to say very well. We all know what he means. And well its a fact.

Look at snowboarding. Are guys and girls competing together?
Sure there are some chick rippers out there that can really ride, they go nuts. Alot are better than I am and will ever be. However they are not going as big as the guys and they are not consistently landing the biggest tricks. You have to admit that the best female snowboarders are not and never have been at the same level as the best male snowboarders. It would not be fair to make girls have to compete against the guys. So why is it unfair to compare the two?

[tomblackwood]

My eldest can out do me on uni skills.
And not just you it would seem...

[cathwood]

Last time I checked it takes both a man and a woman to create life. Unless the rules have changed.

then check again. Many lives have been created via cloning using just the female egg. We've been able to do this with animals for years. I bet we could do that with humans too, except it's VERY illegal.

[BillyTheMountain]

then check again. Many lives have been created via cloning using just the female egg. We've been able to do this with animals for years. I bet we could do that with humans too, except it's VERY illegal.

there's no law against it in Namibia!

[Pdougherty]

Also, God should always be referred to as "she".

WOW....

I agree with AgentQ on the fact that spoonthumb could have worded what he said differently. Needs to be taken with a grain of salt I guess...

[Jedimind]

jk jk jk jk jk jk JK JK JK!!!!!!
One more "jk" and it would've ended up positive again(you were just kidding about just kidding and etc.). That would've been bad news:rolleyes:

[thejdw]

I don't like it when people fight, can we all be nice to each other from now on?

[johnfoss]

Is it just me or does it seem like half the people on these forums are just on here to argue? ...I really get annoyed and wish that it would move toward a more uni oriented forum.I'm reading this thread in JC. Did you start it in one of the other ones? The purpose of JC is to talk about stuff that doesn't belong in the unicycle forums. Which, I will remind people, *can* include unicycle stuff, though most of that should be in the unicycle forms.

I don't come here to argue, I discuss or debate. And sometimes try to inform or advise. I've learned a lot from the discussions/debates, especially when people keep their cool and try to stick to the topic.

But really, I come here to avoid doing stuff I don't want to do at the moment. I wish I could ban myself...

Is this actually the thread for abuse? I came here for an argument.No, it's Getting Hit On The Head lessons in here.

(I haven't read the whole thread, so not sure if anyone else already picked up on that)

I'll finish with a couple of quotes from a face-to-face Unicycling Society of America board meeting from the early 1980s, at Al Hemminger's house. The speakers will remain anonymous:
"Now I know that whatever I say you're going to disagree with me..."
"Not necessarily."

[Spoonthumb]

I'm reading this thread in JC. Did you start it in one of the other ones? The purpose of JC is to talk about stuff that doesn't belong in the unicycle forums. Which, I will remind people, *can* include unicycle stuff, though most of that should be in the unicycle forms.

allright i am posting it in jc because when people spam rsu it makes me angry. And thank you AgentQ. What im trying to get across is yes women are FULLY capable of being as good as men they just arn't. Yes i am talking about street riding, here is a quote that i think speaks for itself

Now remember kids, I'm a girl. I'm scared of pain so this could take me a long time just to get the guys to try and stick it. :)


if you dont believe thats an actuall quote here is the thread http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60253&page=8

[dudewithasock]

allright i am posting it in jc because when people spam rsu it makes me angry. And thank you AgentQ. What im trying to get across is yes women are FULLY capable of being as good as men they just arn't. Yes i am talking about street riding, here is a quote that i think speaks for itself




if you dont believe thats an actuall quote here is the thread http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60253&page=8

I seriously hope you're joking. I don't think I've ever met anyone that oblivious.

[unisteve]

I seriously hope you're joking. I don't think I've ever met anyone that oblivious.
Allow me to introduce myself, Mr. Withasock.

[augustdreamt]

allright i am posting it in jc because when people spam rsu it makes me angry. And thank you AgentQ. What im trying to get across is yes women are FULLY capable of being as good as men they just arn't. Yes i am talking about street riding, here is a quote that i think speaks for itself




if you dont believe thats an actuall quote here is the thread http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60253&page=8

Oh well, that's all right then, since Amanda speaks for all women athletes everywhere.

[UniBrier]

Which, I will remind people, *can* include unicycle stuff, though most of that should be in the unicycle forms.I'd like to argue that. I'll agree only if the *can* is rare and limited.

Posting legitimate unicycle thread on JC encourages others to post legitimate unicycle threads in JC, especialy when several are already on the first page. The core fora here is RSU, if you want to talk unicycles, do it there. I do agree some tangential and inane unicycle threads are better left here to die rather than polluting RSU.

[Mikefule]

There is an important difference between a debate and a row.

Some people come into these forums for a row.

Very often, they start the row by trying to dictate how other people should behave.

Then someone starts a thread saying that people shouldn't come here for a row.

Er...



It is generally wrong to set out to offend someone.

It is generally wrong to take offence when it is clear that none is intended.

Either way, being offended is not the same as losing an arm or a child. Over recent years, the right not to be offended has taken on disproportionate importance in the west.

On average, across a large sample:

Females are physically less strong than males.
Females are less inclined towards physical risk behaviour.
Females are less subject to social pressures to demonstrate physical risk behaviour.
Females have reduced socioeconomic opportunities.


It follows naturally from this that you would expect to find fewer female "top level" unicyclists, and that their skills would tend to be less than those of their male counterparts.

That doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make it inevitable.

But possibly the biggest factor of all is that it is the large population of male unicyclists who set the rules for what constitutes being "good" - and this is therefore often measured in terms of distance, height, speed, degrees, and other things that can be counted, compared and exaggerated easily.

If there were enough females in the mix to influence the "rules", the rules would no doubt be slightly different, and this would tend to redress the artifical imbalance.

[Unitik908]

In all the forums I belong to, this one is has to be the most unorganized and dare I saw it "immature".

Back in my day, that is the exact opposite of what newcomers had to say, but I can definately see how it appears like that nowadays... *sigh*

It's all these new people, coming in a causing a rukcus.
It's all the people who think they are soo smart and everyone is soo stupid.
It's all the people who are rude, for no reason other than stirring others up.
It's all the people who use the opinions as facts and argue them as so.
GAHHH it's really starting tio get ridiculous, these forums used to be fun, enlightening, easy-go-lucky, and all around wholesome place to be.
It's just starting to suck, it's sad really.

Chase

[Nimbusnut]

I would never know it it's like to be the best in anything, but if being the best was the only way to gain a "membership" in a group, it would be a very lonely place. Same with cutting out new people... Eventually it could even be a lonelier place. Does the fun factor rely on statistics?

[Mikefule]

Let's not forget that it's only a few weeks since I started a thread praising this forum as the best one I know.

Try the fencing forum for a paucity of posts about two or three hoary old chestnuts.

Try the BMW F800 forum for bad tempered discussion of perceived faults in a motorcycle that won major awards when it was released.

Try the mudcat forum (folk and blues) for pedantry and vitriol.

The internet makes it possible for people to say stuff they wouldn't say face to face. It removes the risk, and some people abuse this. However, the unicycle forums work better than any other forums I have ever visited in 11 years of using the internet more or less daily.

And if people want to row, you can usually spot the degenerated threads and not bother reading them.

And if someone is a regular offender, you can put them on your ignore list.

Let's enjoy this great privilege that we share, rather than bemoaning its imperfections.

[jamessd]

I have one thing to say.

The forums are and only ever will be, what we make them. The whole discussion of arguments is causing more arguments itself as we are more conscious (sp?...it's too late for me to be poting...) of them, therefore as said by Mikefule, if we take no notice of the threads we think are ''degenerated'', then they will die and be forgotten.

[MuniAddict]

I feel it's so important to have and maintain a good, healthy sense of humor, and not take things too seriously. A while back I got into some heated arguments that I should not have even participated in, or in some cases I was probably the cause of.:o

I've learned to just let things roll off my back a little more, and if I see a topic or post that, IMO, is totally outrageous, insulting, offensive or whatever, I try to not get invloved at all.

In time the thread dies anyway, so for me I've found it better and less stressfull to just not add fuel to a fire. I really love the forums but find myself mostly drawn to RSU since that's the main reason why I joined...of course I make and exception for the "cake" thread, lol!:)

[Divebomber]

I've learned to just let things roll off my back a little more, and if I see a topic or post that, IMO, is totally outrageous, insulting, offensive or whatever, I try to not get invloved at all.

I do this more on various forums now.

[MuniAddict]

I do this more on various forums now.Yeah I used to just get overly defensive and stuff but that just makes things worse in most cases. My problem sometimes was to take things to personally and not really think before I'd react. Having ADHD since childhood doesn't help lol! But finally, after 52 years, having meds prescribed for it (for the first time in my life!) has been working wonders!:p

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

if you dont believe thats an actuall quote here is the thread http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60253&page=8
Well isn't everybody scared of pain? :)
Amanda's tough man... she takes really painful looking bails and gets right back up.
Same goes for those Girlz that Grind girls.

[Spoonthumb]

i am not scared of "pain" persay, just of permenantly damaging my body

[Eddbmxdude]

In all the forums I belong to, this one is has to be the most unorganized and dare I saw it "immature".

I only come on to read the useless threads by annoying American 12-16year olds!

[unisteve]

I only come on to read the useless threads by annoying American 12-16year olds!
Let's not limit the examination to a single continent, Edd. Some of the 12-16 year olds from Europe and the UK can hold their own in the annoying thread creation department.

[Eddbmxdude]

Let's not limit the examination to a single continent, Edd. Some of the 12-16 year olds from Europe and the UK can hold their own in the annoying thread creation department.

Ok, I will re-phrase what I said.

I only come on to read the useless threads by annoying 12-16year olds!

[gkmac]

I tend to think so as well. Debating is fine, but the debates here never come to a conclusion and it's just debating for the sake of it. In all the forums I belong to, this one is has to be the most unorganized and dare I saw it "immature".+1. What's "daring" about telling what the truth is?

Debates quite frequently break down into arguments and they can drag on and on, mainly because lack of proper moderation allows them to continue their latest variation of the Punch & Judy exchanges that pollute this forum. As opposed to a properly moderated forum where locking the thread would prevent them from arguing on and on, removing the fuel from the fire.I only come on to read the useless threads by annoying 12-16year olds!Really? Are you still interested in my plans that I revealed to you and Joseph at Ashridge?

[Eddbmxdude]

Debates quite frequently break down into arguments and they can drag on and on, mainly because lack of proper moderation allows them to continue their latest variation of the Punch & Judy exchanges that pollute this forum. As opposed to a properly moderated forum where locking the thread would prevent them from arguing on and on, removing the fuel from the fire.

You can have too much moderation though. On the Metro forums, one guy has just been given moderator status and I think the power has gone to his head. If someone says something he doesn't agree with he will start locking threads and deleting posts, often he has the last say and then freezes the thread so no-one else has a chance to voice their opinions. Really bloody annoying when you can't do anything about it, and the guy is not mechanically minded either, so has no idea about car maintenance, hes just good with computers.


Really? Are you still interested in my plans that I revealed to you and Joseph at Ashridge?

If you couldn't tell Gk, that post was heavily loaded with sarcasm (Hard to tell over the internet I know). I hate the amount of complete bollocks posted on these forums almost to the point that I wouldn't come on here at all if my good friends that Iv'e made through unicycling weren't here.
How are those plans coming along anyway?

Edd

[UniBrier]

I only come on to read the useless threads by annoying 12-16year olds!Welcome to the club!

I hate the amount of complete bollocks posted on these forums almost to the point that I wouldn't come on here at all if my good friends that I’ve made through unicycling weren't here.Amen. My time spent here has been significantly reduced over time, partly from general busyness of life and partly because of all the noise on the forums.

One of the things that makes me check in here is because of my riding and cyber-friends; and the fact that that if we all leave, that will only leave them...

[Divebomber]

I will say that RSU is quite useful and very friendly. When you get in JC it gets stupid. I think there are some responsible people would be good mods. I think this forum needs something like that to limit on all the religious banter on here or some "controversy" that has been done to death. That's why I choose to stay out of a lot of those threads...

[gkmac]

You can have too much moderation though. On the Metro forums, one guy has just been given moderator status and I think the power has gone to his head. If someone says something he doesn't agree with he will start locking threads and deleting posts, often he has the last say and then freezes the thread so no-one else has a chance to voice their opinions.That isn't "too much" moderation, more like the wrong guy has been promoted in this instance, which as you say can be rather awful.

In another forum I frequent moderators only lock threads in abusive or Punch & Judy situations, but what's really professional is that moderators also act like regular forum users themselves. If they happen to disagree with discussion they simply voice their own opinions and leave it at that. They also answer questions that other users have posted, and even have questions to ask themselves. You'd be forgiven for thinking they were ordinary users if you didn't see the "moderator" beside their avatar.

Moderators are supposed to make sure everyone sticks to the rules and only intervene when these rules are broken. If they start abusing those rules to make sure they only have their say about ordinary subjects, they need their moderation rights revoked. Unfortunately you can't tell if a would-be moderator would be like that until they hold of those power buttons.How are those plans coming along anyway?I'll PM you shortly.

[Mikefule]

I've just been reading this fascinating book on neolithic cave art. The latest piece to be fully deciphered by experts is as follows:

A picture of a bull (or bull like animal) defecating.
A picture of two bulls (or bull like animals) defecating.
A picture of several bulls (or bull like animals) defecating.
A picture of a shaman or holy man standing on a rock.

It has been translated by paaeolinguists as as, "The holy man says that there is more bulshit than there used to be, and it's been getting worse for some time."

The next picture, in the same cave, is of the same holy man apparently urinating into the wind.

And that's around 5,000 years ago.

[thejdw]

Ok, I will re-phrase what I said.

I only come on to read the useless threads by annoying 12-16year olds!
You kinds genrelising a little too much by targeting only that age range, mabey be more spesific?

[Nimbusnut]

Two cats in a bag will fight, but you won't get scratched if ya don't stick your head in there to watch them.

[MuniAddict]

Two cats in a bag will fight, but you won't get scratched if ya don't stick your head in there to watch them.No, but a snake *can* bite you right through the bag!:cool: Moral? Just STF away from the bag in the first place! Of course, curiosity killed the cat :)

[Nimbusnut]

Easy for you to say! My cat carries a snake in a bag and I'm scared to go to sleep!!!!

[augustdreamt]

Easy for you to say! My cat carries a snake in a bag and I'm scared to go to sleep!!!!

I would not mess with that cat either! He looks like a stone-cold killer.

[gkmac]

Two cats in a bag will fight, but you won't get scratched if ya don't stick your head in there to watch them.But you can still hear them meowing and hissing at each other through the bag, so you still know that a fight is going on. Not to mention the fact that a fight started in the first place.

This doesn't apply to bags you see on the internet, where you can't hear what's inside and you never see any movement even if there are animals inside. By the time you've opened the bag and put your head in, it's too late to be unscratched by the unnecessary fight that shouldn't have started in the first place.

[GILD]

But unnecesary/unwanted moderation stopping such 'fights' will simply leave you with a hollow and false calm.
Which will only last as long as it takes the motivation for such fights to grow stronger than the powers of moderation.
Eventually you'll have a fascist forum.
Peacefull as hell, mainly because nobody bothers to use it anymore.

We can also have hired/trained experts to answer every question asked by every person who wants to know what's the best uni for them to buy, how to freemount, how to fakie-540-sideslip how to, which one, how to, which one.
And every answer will be perfect and correct and the forum will be boring as hell.

Turn a bit of a blind eye and a deaf ear, occasionally take it upon yourself to be an instrument of the forums system of self-policing and relax on the endless call for more moderation.

You're beginning to sound 16.

(Yeah, I'm just kidding with the last line. I regard you as a valuable member of this community - not that my opinion counts for squat, I'm just saying - but that was an unusually serious post for me and I wanted to end it with a joke-like-thingy.)

[Eddbmxdude]

But unnecesary/unwanted moderation stopping such 'fights' will simply leave you with a hollow and false calm.
Which will only last as long as it takes the motivation for such fights to grow stronger than the powers of moderation.
Eventually you'll have a fascist forum.
Peacefull as hell, mainly because nobody bothers to use it anymore.


Thats what I was trying to say. The other forum I go on, the threads that turn into arguments are squashed pretty quickly before they resolve themselves naturally. The result of this is that lots of people become really bitchy towards each other from then on and are always taking pops at each other in totally unrelated threads. In effect it spreads the arguing over the whole forums, rather than keeping it in one thread, like the religion thread here.

[Mikefule]

Why don't we start two threads: a Meaningless Arguments thread and a Pointless Arguments thread? Then the culprits can spend their time on those two threads arguing which of the two is better.:rolleyes:

[Divebomber]

I don't think that just because some mods are power-hungry that no one should have power. I do think there needs to be some kind-of moderation on ANY forum. Those chosen to be mods need to be proven to be level-headed. Plus, any good forum has at least 1 or 2 active mods who can close, remove, or edit certain posts as they need to be based on the content, not personal belief or because someone hurt their feelings. Basic respect needs to be enfoced for all members. The problem isn't having a mod in and of itself, but choosing someone mature enough to do it.

[Nimbusnut]

Is it even possible to have an interesting forum that will never result in hard feelings once in a while? How exactly can one be set up and monitored. Aside from the people that actually know each other in person, this mode of conversation is seriously lacking in many of the cues that people pick up on when talking face to face. It's also common for good friends to get into knock down drag out fights once in a while and get back together.. Because they have history. Let's face it, I don't have a real clue what any of you hot buttons are, what traumas any of you suffered in your childhood, if you have certain views because you've been in combat and wake up at night screaming. Same thing in reverse. This is the toughest but easiest way to communicate with strangers and there are some risks. Life is full of risks. Not to be preachy, but in the scale of things reading a bad post once in a while isn't the worst thing in the World.