Golden Compass [Archive] - Unicyclist Community

ivan

2007-12-04, 05:05 PM

I've no idea what you're talking about, but I remember that a few years ago I had this dream where a Stainless Steel Rat movie was on the tely and I turned it on and only got the final credits and I was so amazed and excited to see that there was an actual Stainless Steel Rat movie and it was just so great... Then I woke up and there wasn't a Stainless Steel Rat movie. I was incredibly disappointed.

Now, a few years later there still isn't a Stainless Steel Rat movie and I'm very very glad there isn't.

The End.

yatsey

2007-12-04, 06:07 PM

I read Northern lights as a kid, loved it. Not too sure that I'll like the film adaptation too much.

kington99

2007-12-04, 09:04 PM

I saw a whole load of the filming for this film being done over the last year or two. My college, mate's houses and numerous local landmaks are in it. Also i read the books when they first came out and loved them so yeah I'm pretty excited.

ridingwithscissors

2007-12-04, 11:35 PM

the book series is one of my (more recently written) favourites. can't wait.

Brian MacKenzie

2007-12-04, 11:38 PM

i hadn't heard about it until i saw the previews at Bee Movie

boy Bee Movie was hilarious!

DancingQueen

2007-12-05, 09:15 AM

Stoked about this movie! I can't wait to see it, I'm going with a bunch of my buddies on Friday! Soooo excited! :)

ivan

2007-12-05, 09:21 AM

Are you bringing your horse with?

PinkMuni

2007-12-05, 12:01 PM

I never read the book, but I am somewhat excited to go see the movie. Should be good.

dude you have to read the book, it's amazing. super excited

siafirede

2007-12-05, 08:29 PM

Stoked about this movie! I can't wait to see it, I'm going with a bunch of my buddies on Friday! Soooo excited! :)

Same with me, I'm getting a group together for Friday.

I can't wait for Iorek to throwdown.

I hope that they don't dumb down the book too much. I heard that they removed all references to "The Church" to make the movie more appealing to a wider audience. I also hope they don't only refer to the alethiometer as "the golden compass" because it just sounds cheesy to call it that over and over like they do in the previews.

mornish

2007-12-05, 09:09 PM

I read the first half of that book and hated it.

It's written so badly and nothing happens.

here's some good books...

The sword of truth series,
the twilight/ new moon/ eclipse series,
The R.A. Salvatore/ forgotten realms series,
the wheel of time series.

DancingQueen

2007-12-05, 10:19 PM

Are you bringing your horse with?

I don't think they would allow him in the theater, otherwise I would! haha!

DancingQueen

2007-12-05, 10:22 PM

Same with me, I'm getting a group together for Friday.

I can't wait for Iorek to throwdown.

I hope that they don't dumb down the book too much. I heard that they removed all references to "The Church" to make the movie more appealing to a wider audience. I also hope they don't only refer to the alethiometer as "the golden compass" because it just sounds cheesy to call it that over and over like they do in the previews.

You live in northern VA? I have some friends that live out that way. One lives in Burke, the other lives in Fairfax. Nice area. I had thought about living there some day. (I move around a lot, I tend to wander wherever the breeze takes me. :) )

siafirede

2007-12-05, 10:32 PM

You live in northern VA? I have some friends that live out that way. One lives in Burke, the other lives in Fairfax. Nice area. I had thought about living there some day. (I move around a lot, I tend to wander wherever the breeze takes me. :) )

Yeah, I am in Fairfax. Also have a few friends over out towards Burke.

I don't know about Northern VA being all that nice, I am actually trying to move out of the area haha.

spazdude222

2007-12-05, 10:58 PM

I was excited to see it, but then I heard an interview between...I want to say Mtv...and the author and he was basically saying he wrote the books to oppose religion and that he purposely diluted the first movie so it would seem like an innocent fantasy movie, but each of the three would become progressively more blatent untill the last one is a scathing criticism of the church. Basically he admitted to wanting to hook people on the movie and use it as propaganda to undermine what people believe. I think that's sick. He's basically preying on young minds, trying to influence them away from a belief in God without them knowing. Brainwashing the children of the world seems like a selfish and narrow minded goal for a writer.

johnfoss

2007-12-05, 11:08 PM

Brainwashing the children of the world seems like a selfish and narrow minded goal for a writer.Or a church. Children should be taught to think, ask questions, and understand *why*, not just be told "because it says so here."

spazdude222

2007-12-05, 11:19 PM

here are links to more information: this site has quotes of Pullman where he admits to the movie being diluted so christian parents will buy the books for their children. (http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp) and
This is a quote from the essay that this link will take you to "Lyra’s parents drive the plot. Her father is Lord Asriel, whose name, Miltonists will recognize, belongs to the angel who refused to join Satan. Yet, Lord Asriel is one of the story’s two Lucifer figures, the one who wants to destroy God so that the “republic of heaven” can be set up on earth. (So many totalitarians have had that dream, you would think Pullman would be leery of it, but he is as enthralled with the idea as Blake.) Lyra’s mother is Mrs. Coulter, a church careerist who is most happy torturing children and heretics. In the background is the evil church, part Roman Catholic, part Nazi, but with an implied Calvinist theology, for its Vatican is located in Geneva. The second Lucifer figure in HDM is the ex-nun physicist, Dr. Mary Malone, Lyra’s beneficent tempter, who, near the end of the last book makes the trilogy’s theme explicit: “The Christian religion is a very powerful and very convincing mistake, that’s all.” (The impetus for Mary’s insight? At a physics conference which she attends as a nun, she discovers she wants to have sex with another physicist, and any creed which gets in the way of that just has to be wrong!)" (http://www.kirkcenter.org/bookman/44-1-bernthal.html)

spazdude222

2007-12-05, 11:23 PM

Or a church. Children should be taught to think, ask questions, and understand *why*, not just be told "because it says so here."
I agree, but, if Parents want to instill a religion in their children, and then the child wants to reject it later, that's totally different from a man writing books that purposely mislead children. I am not saying he shouldn't have written the books, but for him to write them with that sort of ulterior motive is sinister. It'd be like if C.S. Lewis had said "Yeah, I wrote these books to go under the radar and get atheist kids to read them. I really just want to trick non-religious parents into allowing their children to read something that undermines their beliefs."

DancingQueen

2007-12-05, 11:46 PM

Yeah, I am in Fairfax. Also have a few friends over out towards Burke.

I don't know about Northern VA being all that nice, I am actually trying to move out of the area haha.

Its nicer than a lot of places I've seen. People I've met there are pretty cool too! :)

DancingQueen

2007-12-05, 11:52 PM

I agree, but, if Parents want to instill a religion in their children, and then the child wants to reject it later, that's totally different from a man writing books that purposely mislead children. I am not saying he shouldn't have written the books, but for him to write them with that sort of ulterior motive is sinister. It'd be like if C.S. Lewis had said "Yeah, I wrote these books to go under the radar and get atheist kids to read them. I really just want to trick non-religious parents into allowing their children to read something that undermines their beliefs."

I never read the book, never heard about it til I saw the movie previews. Hollywood has a real good way of over dramatizing stuff all the time, making the story appear better than it actually was. Adding stuff that didn't happen, taking things away that were considered important yet 'boring' parts of the plot.

Kinda like Beowulf, has anyone seen the European version? it was filmed in Iceland. I like the story line to "Beowulf and Grendel" (the euro version) than I do "Beowulf" (the Hollywood version). However, the special effects and animation are very well done in the Hollywood version.

Hmm.. I guess its safe to say that I overall like "Beowulf and Grendel" and I only like the animation in "Beowulf" haha! Yeah, "Beowulf" was close to the true story for about the first 20 mins, after that, I have no idea where they came up with that story. :confused:

spazdude222

2007-12-06, 12:01 AM

I never read the book, never heard about it til I saw the movie previews. Hollywood has a real good way of over dramatizing stuff all the time, making the story appear better than it actually was. Adding stuff that didn't happen, taking things away that were considered important yet 'boring' parts of the plot.

Kinda like Beowulf, has anyone seen the European version? it was filmed in Iceland. I like the story line to "Beowulf and Grendel" (the euro version) than I do "Beowulf" (the Hollywood version). However, the special effects and animation are very well done in the Hollywood version.

Hmm.. I guess its safe to say that I overall like "Beowulf and Grendel" and I only like the animation in "Beowulf" haha! Yeah, "Beowulf" was close to the true story for about the first 20 mins, after that, I have no idea where they came up with that story. :confused:You started this post with my post in a quote box, and never once adressed my point. Why quote me at all?:confused:

DancingQueen

2007-12-06, 01:20 AM

Hahaha! Sorry, I didn't even realize I did that! I must have hit the quote button instead of the reply. Sorry bout that!

...but still! Don't you feel special when you get quoted? I sure do when people quote me! lol! :p

robdizzle

2007-12-06, 01:38 AM

sorry to be off topic but another good trilogy is the space trilogy by cs lewis

its great

siafirede

2007-12-06, 02:20 AM

He's basically preying on young minds, trying to influence them away from a belief in God without them knowing. Brainwashing the children of the world seems like a selfish and narrow minded goal for a writer.

If the Chronicles of Narnia can exist, so can His Dark Materials (of which Golden Compass is a part of).

Also...have you read the books you are bashing?

If someone's beliefs can be destroyed by a series of books with talking polar bears...then...well...Wow. What is wrong with children questioning things anyway?

ivan

2007-12-06, 06:11 PM

I don't think they would allow him in the theater, otherwise I would! haha!
In that case you must bring your saber/rapier/whatever and chop down whoever dares to stand in your way.

Spoonthumb

2007-12-06, 06:29 PM

robdizzle

2007-12-06, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by mornish
I read the first half of that book and hated it.

It's written so badly and nothing happens.

thats how the first 4 harry potters started
like the reader was mentally handicapped

and i agree with siafirede its the anti-narnia

spazdude222

2007-12-07, 12:55 AM

If the Chronicles of Narnia can exist, so can His Dark Materials (of which Golden Compass is a part of).

Also...have you read the books you are bashing?

If someone's beliefs can be destroyed by a series of books with talking polar bears...then...well...Wow. What is wrong with children questioning things anyway?
A) I'm not saying they can't exist, I'm saying good writers write for the sake of entertaining people, not undermining their beliefs.
B) I'm not bashing the books, I'm bashing the Author of the books
C) Children often believe in a good natured fat guy in a red suit who breaks into their houses to leave presents, a part bug part human that fly's around and trades small amounts of cash for teeth left under a pillow, a giant bunny that delivers candy filled eggs, and monsters that live in their rooms and want to eat them. Why is it that hard to believe that a book in which a couple of children kill God could cause them to doubt the things their parents have taught them?

Pullman isn't just advocating a lack of religion, but the freedom from moral code. He's pushing for a society so liberal, that ethical concerns cease to exist. He even admits on his website that his favorite character was one who was unrestrained in her actions. Whether or not you believe in a god, any god, I pray to my God that you are at least wise enough to acknowledge the importance of morality.

Det-riot

2007-12-07, 02:48 AM

Pullman isn't just advocating a lack of religion, but the freedom from moral code. He's pushing for a society so liberal, that ethical concerns cease to exist. He even admits on his website that his favorite character was one who was unrestrained in her actions. Whether or not you believe in a god, any god, I pray to my God that you are at least wise enough to acknowledge the importance of morality.
that is my favorite thing about Pullman. The world would be a much better place if everyone was that anti religion

siafirede

2007-12-07, 04:02 AM

I guess this was bound to turn into another "lets debate religion" threads.

Pullman isn't just advocating a lack of religion, but the freedom from moral code. He's pushing for a society so liberal, that ethical concerns cease to exist. He even admits on his website that his favorite character was one who was unrestrained in her actions. Whether or not you believe in a god, any god, I pray to my God that you are at least wise enough to acknowledge the importance of morality.

Morality and atheism are not mutually exclusive. If you did read the books you would realize that the main character, Lyra, is full of moral code and virtue.

A) I'm not saying they can't exist, I'm saying good writers write for the sake of entertaining people, not undermining their beliefs.

Good writers don't just write for the sake of entertaining people. Pullman isn't a clown (at least...as far as I know). What is wrong with bringing theology and a little bit of intelligence into children's literature?

Also, the books seem like they are trying to undermine dogma and corrupt authority, not religion and virtue.

Why is it that hard to believe that a book in which a couple of children kill God could cause them to doubt the things their parents have taught them?

What is wrong with doubt? Children are inquisitive by nature and they should be questioning things. Parents should also be interacting with their children and be able to answer the questions they are asking or at least attempt to.

Jerrick

2007-12-07, 09:47 AM

that is my favorite thing about Pullman. The world would be a much better place if everyone was that anti religion

Would it be?

I have become a lot better of a person through Christianity, through what I read from the Bible, and from a weekly meeting I have every Monday, and a LTG* meeting I do Tuesdays with my friend Jordan.

I don't cuss anymore, I understand peoples reactions and feelings before I react back to them, I think of what I am going to do or say before I say. I am very open to all people and do not hold anger and hate towards other people.

I was like that before a little, but now, I have a reason to always be like that, and feel its important to thrive to act that way.

So before I was ok, but not great, and myself now is a lot better than I was then.

* LTG is Life transformation group. An easy way to put it is "Iron sharpens Iron, so one person sharpens another." Basically, one day a week, me and Jordan get together, and have a set of questions to ask each other, and we answer them truthfully. This shows us what we need to work on better and give a reason to not go against what we should be doing. Cause I don't want to do something immoral and bad then have to tell him all that. Its embarrassing and doesn't make me feel good about myself. This doesn't even have to be a Christian thing, cause the questions by themself are really good to talk about with any one you have a relationship with. Friends, parents, boyfriend/girlfriend. Its fun.

Borges

2007-12-07, 12:18 PM

It'd be like if C.S. Lewis had said "Yeah, I wrote these books to go under the radar and get atheist kids to read them. I really just want to trick non-religious parents into allowing their children to read something that undermines their beliefs."
Pullman is pretty obviously anti christian in the books, and if the movie (which I haven't seen) doesn't reflect that, it's probably in order to avoid causing offense. Pullman has been open about it, and so has C. S. Lewis. I don't see what the problem is.

ivan

2007-12-07, 12:40 PM

good writers write for the sake of entertaining people
You hobnob!!!

Good writers write for the sake of writing! And often to undermine someone's beliefs: Uncle Tom's Hut, anyone?

dudewithasock

2007-12-07, 01:48 PM

I think it's cabin*, Ivan.

And Sam, I agree with everyone else. Saying that writers only write to entertain people is a pretty naive statement. I would say more but then I'd just be repeating other people.

ivan

2007-12-07, 02:25 PM

I think it's cabin*, Ivan.

Hehehe.

bungalistic

2007-12-07, 02:39 PM

I watched the movie last night, it was ok I guess. I've not read the books so I can't really comment on certain aspects of the film but it did seem to string scenes together without any kind of back story or continuation, which was a bit annoying. It was obviously done in a way to target and entertain children (young children).

I can't be bothered to debate the whole religion issue, I don't believe in any of it, but some people do and thats that.

spazdude222

2007-12-07, 07:27 PM

Pullman is pretty obviously anti christian in the books, and if the movie (which I haven't seen) doesn't reflect that, it's probably in order to avoid causing offense. Pullman has been open about it, and so has C. S. Lewis. I don't see what the problem is.
No, if the movie doesn't reflect that, it's because pullman AS HE ADMITTED wantsd to get Christians to let their gaurd down so that they will bring the books into their homes.

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-12-07, 07:31 PM

I have become a lot better of a person through Christianity, through what I read from the Bible, and from a weekly meeting I have every Monday, and a LTG* meeting I do Tuesdays with my friend Jordan.

I don't cuss anymore, I understand peoples reactions and feelings before I react back to them, I think of what I am going to do or say before I say. I am very open to all people and do not hold anger and hate towards other people.

I was like that before a little, but now, I have a reason to always be like that, and feel its important to thrive to act that way.

So before I was ok, but not great, and myself now is a lot better than I was then.

* LTG is Life transformation group. An easy way to put it is "Iron sharpens Iron, so one person sharpens another." Basically, one day a week, me and Jordan get together, and have a set of questions to ask each other, and we answer them truthfully. This shows us what we need to work on better and give a reason to not go against what we should be doing. Cause I don't want to do something immoral and bad then have to tell him all that. Its embarrassing and doesn't make me feel good about myself. This doesn't even have to be a Christian thing, cause the questions by themself are really good to talk about with any one you have a relationship with. Friends, parents, boyfriend/girlfriend. Its fun.

You've become a better person because you chose to be not because of Christianity.

As you said in your footnote, LTG is not a religious thing it's just a self-improvement thing.

As far as Golden Compass I think it's hilarious that people are so afraid of views that contradict theirs that they freak out and plan boycotts and all that fun stuff where most of the people involved probably haven't read the books or seen the movie.

I have a feeling that the intelligent well grounded Christians don't have any problem with this sort of thing.

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-12-07, 07:33 PM

No, if the movie doesn't reflect that, it's because pullman AS HE ADMITTED wantsd to get Christians to let their gaurd down so that they will bring the books into their homes.

So you've seen the movie? And had one on one discussions with Pullman?

spazdude222

2007-12-07, 07:34 PM

Look, i'm really not trying to push Christianity, all I'm trying to do is get people to realize that they AREN'T entirely innocent childrens books, being made into entirely innocent movies.

spazdude222

2007-12-07, 07:41 PM

So you've seen the movie? And had one on one discussions with Pullman?
It's called research. It's called reading interviews that pullman had with other people.

spazdude222

2007-12-07, 07:48 PM

Look, i'm really not trying to push Christianity, all I'm trying to do is get people to realize that they AREN'T entirely innocent childrens books, being made into entirely innocent movies.
EDIT: I also don't want to boycott the movie. I am ONLY trying to inform people of what they will be seeing when they choose to go see it. I in all honesty would go see it, if I didn't have to buy Christmas presents.

Spoonthumb

2007-12-07, 08:01 PM

that is my favorite thing about Pullman. The world would be a much better place if everyone was that anti religion

i dont think so, i think people would have no morals. I think the world would be a much better place if people didn't do bad things

wobbling bear

2007-12-07, 08:34 PM

The good things about good books is that you can re-read those with different perspectives.
authors as different as Jack Vance and Salman Rushdie could be read as well as anti-religious and as sympathetic to believers .... this unstable ambiguity makes them great writers.

Borges

2007-12-07, 09:07 PM

No, if the movie doesn't reflect that, it's because pullman AS HE ADMITTED wantsd to get Christians to let their gaurd down so that they will bring the books into their homes.
If he did that, I couldn't see it in the articles you linked to in your post. Bill Donohue is quoted for saying that the movie is going to have that effect.
It looks like Pullman has made no secret of how he feels about religion.
I quote here from one of your links (emphasis added by me):
"Pullman has left little doubt about his books' intended thrust in discussions of his works, such as noting in a 2003 interview that "My books are about killing God" and in a 2001 interview that he was "trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief."

Look, i'm really not trying to push Christianity, all I'm trying to do is get people to realize that they AREN'T entirely innocent childrens books, being made into entirely innocent movies.
They're definitely not innocent. They're for people who are at least Lyras age, and who are able to look critically at what they see and read.

Det-riot

2007-12-07, 11:11 PM

im walking out the door right now to see this

ill post back with a review when i get back

Det-riot

2007-12-08, 02:51 AM

THIS MOVIE IS TERRIBLE!!!!

if you somewhat enjoyed the book, do not see the movie. The special effects were good, but the story line got butchered!! They even changed one o the characters name's!

siafirede

2007-12-08, 05:27 AM

THIS MOVIE IS TERRIBLE!!!!

if you somewhat enjoyed the book, do not see the movie. The special effects were good, but the story line got butchered!! They even changed one o the characters name's!

Yeah the storyline definitely got butchered. They took out all of the interesting parts of the book and tied together everything very loosely.

I was mainly dissapointed by the how they changed Iorek's history and the whole Svalbard scene.

I think they changed Iofur's name b/c it sounded too much like Iorek and I guess they were dumbing down the movie, which is quite opposite to the way Pullman wrote the book. He didn't believe in dumbing down literature for children. The movie was way too short and they did a poor job at portraying the characters...so you didn't really care for anyone in the movie.

Also...they didn't focus on the main part of the first book...the aurora. They hardly mentioned the Northern Lights and its mystery and importance. That was what made the first book so interesting to me as a kid, and they hardly even touched on that in the movie.

I wonder what people who haven't read the book and saw the movie think about it?

pkittle

2007-12-08, 05:53 AM

Look, i'm really not trying to push Christianity, all I'm trying to do is get people to realize that they AREN'T entirely innocent childrens books, being made into entirely innocent movies.

Do you actually believe that ANY book--for children or adults--is "entirely innocent"? That is, that they could be free of any overarching and/or undergirding ideology? That really is a naive perspective. The books that you may think of as "innocent" absolutely are not; rather, they are so effective at describing and maintaining the cultural status quo that their ideologies are, effectively, invisible to the reader. It's only when a book does what Pullman's series does--i.e., questions the status quo--that the ideology suddenly becomes so much easier to see.

Think about some innocuous production for kids. The TV show Barney, for instance. Do you think it's innocent? Hardly. It reinforces some attitudes that come across as harmless (like the importance of following directions, or something like that), but it's probably simultaneously imbuing children with the belief that they must always look to adults for permission to act. This is bad because, as Susan Ohanian (an educator and writer) recounts, she was left in her car as a child by her father, who told her not to leave the car while he ran into his office to get something. While he was gone, the car caught fire, and Ohanian relates how she moved around in the passenger compartment to stay away from the flames, but didn't leave the car. When her father returned a few minutes later, he was able to get her out, but she was in significant danger. She talks about how she thought the fire was a test to see if she'd follow directions, and was proud of how well she did. I don't think that any time we try to create absolutes in the minds of our children we're doing them a service; they need to be able to understand the gray areas of this world, and attain the skills to navigate through things that don't conform to what they might have been expecting.

Jerrick

2007-12-08, 05:18 PM

You've become a better person because you chose to be not because of Christianity.

As you said in your footnote, LTG is not a religious thing it's just a self-improvement thing.

As far as Golden Compass I think it's hilarious that people are so afraid of views that contradict theirs that they freak out and plan boycotts and all that fun stuff where most of the people involved probably haven't read the books or seen the movie.

I have a feeling that the intelligent well grounded Christians don't have any problem with this sort of thing.

Yes, and Christianity helps me a lot with being a better person. Reading through the Bible shows me things that I need to reconsider and makes me think about my person a lot more. As I read the Bible, it reads me, if that makes sense.

Im still interested in this movie. My interest for it perked even more once I heard about it and what has been spoken about it in this thread.

bungalistic

2007-12-08, 07:23 PM

I wonder what people who haven't read the book and saw the movie think about it?

As I think I mentioned previously, never read the books don't intend to either and I thought the movie was ok at best. I didn't really see any major point to the plot and it lacked suspense, there was no real build up to any sort of grand ending or revelation, just seemed like lots of scenes strung together. It all seemed a bit to targeted for kids to me.