Man tasered at John Kerry forum for asking a question [Archive]

john_childs

2007-09-18, 04:47 PM

That was really handled poorly on the part of the police and those organizing the forum. Rambling questions are nothing new at such forums. City councils deal with it all the time. Anyone running a forum like that nowadays should know how to handle the situation.

The whole reaction by the police is very troubling.

The videos I have seen so far don't bother to show the entire rambling question so it is not clear how the situation was handled prior to the police stepping in. Seems things were generally in control though even if he was speaking over some vague time limit. Then the police step in...

Doesn't give you much respect for the police when they abuse authority like that and come off looking like complete assholes.

Det-riot

2007-09-18, 04:53 PM

i wish somebody could have punched the cops ion the face. that was my reaction as i saw the video. Im angry now, stupid grrrrr:mad: idk what to say besides that is so dumb.

JJuggle

2007-09-18, 04:53 PM

I would agree with John.

Florida student Tasered at Kerry forum after election question
18 September 2007
Associated Press Newswires
(c) 2007. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) - A University of Florida student was Tasered and arrested after he angrily and repeatedly tried to ask U.S. Sen. John Kerry about the 2004 election and other subjects during a campus forum. He was released from jail Tuesday.

Videos of Monday's incident posted on several Web sites show officers pulling Andrew Meyer, 21, away from the microphone after he asks Kerry about impeaching President Bush and whether he and Bush were both members of the secret society Skull and Bones at Yale University.

"He apparently asked several questions -- he went on for quite awhile -- then he was asked to stop," university spokesman Steve Orlando said. "He had used his allotted time. His microphone was cut off, then he became upset."

Just after asking about Skull and Bones, Meyer said "thank you" again and was taken by police. As two officers grab his arms, Kerry is heard to say, "That's all right, let me answer his question." Audience members applaud, and Meyer struggles to escape for several seconds as up to four officers try to remove him from the room.

Meyer screams for help and asks "What did I do?" as he tries to break away from officers. He is forced to the ground and officers order him to stop resisting. Meyer says he will walk out if the officers let him go.

As Kerry tells the audience he will answer the student's "very important question," Meyer struggles on the ground and yells at the officers to release him, crying out, "Don't Tase me, bro," just before he is Tasered. He is then led from the room, screaming, "What did I do?"

Meyer was released on his own recognizance after a court hearing Tuesday. He was represented by Robert Griscti, a private attorney who did not return an e-mail and phone message seeking comment.

Police recommended charges of resisting arrest with violence, a third-degree felony, and disturbing the peace and interfering with school administrative functions, a second-degree misdemeanor. The State Attorney's Office will make the formal charging decision.

Orlando said university police would conduct an internal investigation.

"The police department does have a standard procedure for when they use force, including when they use a Taser," Orlando said. "That is what the internal investigation would address -- whether the proper procedures were followed, whether the officers acted appropriately."

Meyer has his own Web site and it contains several "comedy" videos that he appears in. In one, he stands in a street with a sign that says "Harry Dies" after the latest Harry Potter book was released. In another, he acts like a drunk while trying to pick up a woman in a bar.

James_Potter

2007-09-18, 05:18 PM

i wish somebody could have punched the cops ion the face. that was my reaction as i saw the video. Im angry now, stupid grrrrr:mad: idk what to say besides that is so dumb.
The problem is, the same thing is going to happen to anyone who does take a stand. There were six cops there all armed with tasers and guns and probably lots of other painful toys, so had anyone stood up for Andrew, or "punched the cops in the face" the same thing would have happened to them.
Unless EVERYONE in the room all felt the same way and tried taking on the pigs, nothing can be done, and the police will not be prosecuted for their actions.

The videos I have seen so far don't bother to show the entire rambling question so it is not clear how the situation was handled prior to the police stepping in. Seems things were generally in control though even if he was speaking over some vague time limit. Then the police step in...
In the second video the cops say that they arrested him for "inciting a riot", but it doesn't appear that he did anything to incite a riot, actually the police officers themselves were the ones who started all the action. I think they (the cops) disliked the question and didn't want it asked, or answered. But that just might be the biased government-fearing side of me coming out.
I want to know if Kerry ever answered the question, and what the answer was.45

Please tell me this is not a new realisation on your part?
No, I've just been trying to deny that truth subconsciously, it's getting harder to do unfortunately.

James_Potter

2007-09-18, 05:23 PM

Meyer has his own Web site and it contains several "comedy" videos that he appears in. In one, he stands in a street with a sign that says "Harry Dies" after the latest Harry Potter book was released. In another, he acts like a drunk while trying to pick up a woman in a bar.
Does anyone know what his website is?
I just looked for it but couldn't find it.

john_childs

2007-09-18, 05:31 PM

The problem is that police are not the right people to be acting as ushers at a forum like that. Getting police involved is like jumping straight to nuclear weapons, the situation instantly escalates.

Why does the police department allow their officers to be in that kind of situation where they are acting as ushers? That is not the role for a police officer -- obviously, since we have seen the results. The chief of police shouldn't allow the officers to even be put in that situation.

We already know what's going to happen when police are asked to act as ushers or an intermediary. We've seen it before.

The chief of police should insist that there be properly trained ushers at forums like that. The ushers act as an intermediary. The chief should insist that police are not used where an usher would be more appropriate.

Falling4Fun

2007-09-18, 05:44 PM

Racenut

2007-09-18, 05:55 PM

Those "Police" were ill trained. And not in the use of a taser, but in the use of control. There's no way a skinny kid like that should have been able to put up such a fight. And if you're going to send in cops for security and control, don't send in a couple of 5'4" 130 pounders and a fat guy. Call them campus police, but they looked like they were trained to be mall security.

Free speech is alive and well. But free speech does not give you the right to be disruptive in a room full of people. The forum had defined rules and he violated them. It's funny to me that people think that the 1st amendment gives them the right to be assholes anytime and anywhere they please.

James_Potter

2007-09-18, 06:20 PM

From what I've seen of the video, the man was fighting off the police. Why is it whenever the police use any sort force it is automatically the police's fault? Why didn't the man step away from the podium when he was asked? Why is it when someone decides he doesn't want to follow the rules set up and the authorities try to hold someone to those rules it is not the persons fault that didn't follow the rules, but the police's. If the man had said his peace and stepped away from the podium there wouldn't have been a problem in the first place.
Because the man was not doing anything wrong. It was a time for an influential politician to answer questions of the public, the public had a question, the police did not like the question so they used unnecessary force to curb his freedom of speech. He did not decide he didn't want to follow the rules, there is no rule against asking an extremely controversial question. Andrew was trying to say his piece, but his mic was cut so he was not allowed to finish the question. If he had just been allowed to go back to his seat pissed off and let Kerry answer as much of the question as he had heard, and the police had not touched him, everything would have been fine (aside from Andrew being pissed off). But the cops assumed it was their job to usher him out of the room, even though he was clearly no threat whatsoever.

Those "Police" were ill trained. And not in the use of a taser, but in the use of control. There's no way a skinny kid like that should have been able to put up such a fight. And if you're going to send in cops for security and control, don't send in a couple of 5'4" 130 pounders and a fat guy. Call them campus police, but they looked like they were trained to be mall security.
There was no need for police to be there in the first place. Andrew was not inciting a riot as they claimed, he only wanted his question answered. The cops were the ones being unruly. If there weren't any cops there in the first place, this thing would not have happened. It was the cops' fault.

Free speech is alive and well. But free speech does not give you the right to be disruptive in a room full of people. The forum had defined rules and he violated them. It's funny to me that people think that the 1st amendment gives them the right to be assholes anytime and anywhere they please.
In what way do you believe he was being disruptive before the cops came? He only asked his question, was cut off and the police tried to get him to leave. He didn't want to leave and had no reason to anyway, so he fought to stay.

The problem is that police are not the right people to be acting as ushers at a forum like that. Getting police involved is like jumping straight to nuclear weapons, the situation instantly escalates.
Yeah, that's exactly what happened. Judging by the video (which may actually not provide enough information), Andrew was not given a chance to sit down, the police instantly pulled him away from the mic and were dragging him out of the room.

Why does the police department allow their officers to be in that kind of situation where they are acting as ushers? That is not the role for a police officer -- obviously, since we have seen the results. The chief of police shouldn't allow the officers to even be put in that situation.
Unfortunately, I don't think the police or any authority figures are going to see anything wrong with what happened, and are probably going to use this case as another example of how police are necessary in situations like these.

Racenut

2007-09-18, 06:39 PM

There was no need for police to be there in the first place. Andrew was not inciting a riot as they claimed, he only wanted his question answered. The cops were the ones being unruly. If there weren't any cops there in the first place, this thing would not have happened. It was the cops' fault.

If you're going to fill an auditorium full of college kids and have a political discussion and NOT have cops on hand, you're insane.

In what way do you believe he was being disruptive before the cops came? He only asked his question, was cut off and the police tried to get him to leave. He didn't want to leave and had no reason to anyway, so he fought to stay.

The video posted here doesn't start until after security is involved. The other video I saw, the cops were just standing there until he started getting belligerent and from what I understand, exceeded the time limit each speaker was allowed. His microphone has already been turned off.

I would also not be surprised if this student minors in drama as he seemed all too prepared to make as big a spectacle as possible.

Gilby

2007-09-18, 06:48 PM

The videos I have seen so far don't bother to show the entire rambling question so it is not clear how the situation was handled prior to the police stepping in. Seems things were generally in control though even if he was speaking over some vague time limit. Then the police step in...

Here is most, if not all, of the question: http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250

maestro8

2007-09-18, 06:59 PM

Those "Police" were ill trained. And not in the use of a taser, but in the use of control.
Hammer lock anyone? I thought that was SOP for police.

The way that student was wailing, it looked like he coulda been taken down with a kick to the shins from a 6 yr. old girl. Those "police" couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag, from the looks of that video.

maestro8

2007-09-18, 07:16 PM

the police did not like the question so they used unnecessary force to curb his freedom of speech.
You're making a number HUGE assumptions there, James. Can you rationalize this for us?

There was no need for police to be there in the first place.
Why do you think any US Senator would make a public appearance without security? Police, Secret Service, FBI, there needs to be some sort of security present. Unfortunately, the Keystone Cops were called in on this one...

Here is most, if not all, of the question
That kid comes off as a complete lunatic. It's questionable if he's the violent type, but considering there's a famous politician present, I doubt the cops were waiting to see if this kid would charge the stage before removing him from the forum. I'd be suspect of anyone rambling with that fervor.

James_Potter

2007-09-18, 07:33 PM

If you're going to fill an auditorium full of college kids and have a political discussion and NOT have cops on hand, you're insane.
How many times have you been at a forum like that and a violent fight has broken out? I'm not saying it's never happened but saying it's always necessary is just silly. Police have been needed at least once everywhere, that doesn't mean there should be a police officer within shouting distance everywhere in the country, especially when they are going to abuse power.

The video posted here doesn't start until after security is involved. The other video I saw, the cops were just standing there until he started getting belligerent and from what I understand, exceeded the time limit each speaker was allowed. His microphone has already been turned off.
Click the cnn.com link, it has a video including part of or all of his question. He wasn't being violent until the cops started being violent.

You're making a number HUGE assumptions there, James. Can you rationalize this for us?
Fair enough, what I said may not be true. I was just guessing as to one reason they would have acted. I saw no reason for Andrew to be escorted from the room before Kerry got a chance to answer his question, which he said he would answer. Like I said above, Andrew was not being violent, and if history of police corruption/brutality has anything to say about it, the police officers might have been acting irrationally and violently when there was no need to.

Why do you think any US Senator would make a public appearance without security? Police, Secret Service, FBI, there needs to be some sort of security present. Unfortunately, the Keystone Cops were called in on this one...
Again a perfectly fair argument...so there is a logical reason to having some sort of security there. But in my opinion they were still completely out of hand, and Andrew was not doing anything to get treated that way.

That kid comes off as a complete lunatic. It's questionable if he's the violent type, but considering there's a famous politician present, I doubt the cops were waiting to see if this kid would charge the stage before removing him from the forum. I'd be suspect of anyone rambling with that fervor.
In what way did you see him as a lunatic? I think he had a great question, because (from what I have observed) many people do believe Bush should be impeached for all he has done. He was not a lunatic, he is just outspoken and willing to stand up for that which he believes in. Most people would have been afraid of authority when police came, but he held his ground, as he should have, because (according to the video and articles) he did nothing against the law.
So that's basically why I got the impression the cops were pissed about what Andrew was saying, because he was challenging authority, authority in this case being politicians and police officers.

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-09-18, 08:19 PM

He wasn't tasered for asking the question he was tasered for resisting arrest.

He was clearly already heated, the campus security were escorting him out calmly and he starts screaming and flailing.

If a cop asks you to leave, you leave and then you take it up with the department later, believe it or not they investigate these things and people are punished. Those stories aren't exciting though so they don't make the news. He was flailing and trying to get away, that is why he was tasered. Yeah, if the security were properly trained they could have restrained him without using the taser, but they weren't so they did. The department is investigating it.

Watching the video though makes it quite clear that he wasn't tasered for asking the question. So it's really not a freedom of speech issue. End of story.

If cops ask you to leave and run from them they will chase how, why does that surprise anyone?

Gilby

2007-09-18, 09:07 PM

He wasn't tasered for asking the question he was tasered for resisting arrest.

Why was he being arrested? They cut his mic and the police dragged him away. Cutting the mic should have been sufficient and the police should have waited until he escalated the situation from there if they thought he was really a threat.

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-09-18, 09:58 PM

Why was he being arrested? They cut his mic and the police dragged him away. Cutting the mic should have been sufficient and the police should have waited until he escalated the situation from there if they thought he was really a threat.

If you notice in the video that you posted from the local Florida NBC site (when it says 6:29 left), the security guy comes up to him touches him on the back and asks him to leave or sit down or something the guys waves him off (in what I would call an aggressive manner) and the security guy steps away. The guy continues to talk. Also notice there is a cut in the video (5:29 remaining) right before the security guys actually come in to apprehend him so we don't know (at least from the video) what happened that caused security to step in again.

Had he walked peacefully out of the building he definitely wouldn't have been tasered and he probably wouldn't have even been arrested or charged with anything.

Had he sat down when he was first asked he probably wouldn't have even been asked to leave the room.

forrestunifreak

2007-09-18, 10:04 PM

Too bad nobody tasered John Kerry while they were at it...

maestro8

2007-09-18, 10:11 PM

Too bad nobody tasered John Kerry while they were at it...
...because?

john_childs

2007-09-19, 12:23 AM

...because?
John Kerry has a tendency to babble on as well. That seems to be a justifiable cause.

feel the light

2007-09-19, 12:30 AM

And the taser may have been a bit much for an unarmed jerk on the ground out numbered by several cops.
That said, the kid was a rude spoiled idiot, in the act of denying others their right of free speech. It is impossible to hold a public forum if any shouting nut must be allowed to go on until they are exhausted. The raving egocentrics feed off attention, and will allow no others to steal back the limelight, once it has them in it's grasp.
I say he was rightly arrested, and clearly resisting arrest. I'm not surprised that they tasered him. It's to bad they didn't have a weight lifting cop who could twist his arm and hustle him out. They need a real bouncer.
In any event, the tradition of whacking the unruly upside the head is as ancient as forums themselves. The person who cannot shut up and let someone else have their turn is not exercising free speech. They are demanding the authority to deny it to others. With rudeness and volume as their tools. Got what he had coming IMHO. The cops were light weight pansies though.

harper

2007-09-19, 12:33 AM

Maybe the police used a lower than usual voltage. They might have had their TASERs set on "annoy" rather than "stun." No one has reported on this important detail. Why are details like this omitted?

john_childs

2007-09-19, 12:40 AM

Police are not ushers. Don't use them as such. And the police shouldn't allow themselves to be used as such either. Bad things only come from that.

I blame the police. The guy may have been broken stated rules about time limits. He certainly broke rules for effective public speaking. But none of that is cause for arrest. Just usher him on and tell him to get to the point in the next 30 seconds.

Could you imagine having the police usher and enforce a college club board meeting? Violate Roberts Rules Of Order and BAM! Takedown. That's a tasering and an arrest. :rolleyes:

pix

2007-09-19, 01:05 AM

this video shows his full question and keeps running up until he is removed from the room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE76LQwT6qA

i've been to plenty of conferences, and there is always one person who asks a long rambling question that makes everyones eyes glaze over. this person is never dragged off and tasered, where are you when we need you, over-zealous police officers?

and i didn't even find his question rambly. his build-up was relevant, if a little dramatic. admittedly, trying to squeeze in three questions is pushing it a little bit in the audience ettiquete department, but still it is a far cry from being an arrestable offence.

seriously though, i find this video terrifying. it reaffirms my stance on not entering the U.S. largely on grounds that i don't think i'd be able to shut up and be quiet in this kind of situation. i'd probably get myself into a lot of trouble.

pix.

john_childs

2007-09-19, 01:38 AM

seriously though, i find this video terrifying. it reaffirms my stance on not entering the U.S. largely on grounds that i don't think i'd be able to shut up and be quiet in this kind of situation. i'd probably get myself into a lot of trouble.

pix.
I get the same feeling about Germany when I read some news articles about police actions over there and some of your freedom related laws. ;)

No need to be scared of random arrest over here. There are a few cases, like this one, that give me pause. But on the whole there is no need to concern yourself about random arrest even when protesting or speaking at a public forum (assuming you're not doing intentional civil disobedience).

feel the light

2007-09-19, 03:06 AM

"Ask your one question and sit down, or I will drag you outside, screaming and hollering if you want."
The jerk clearly stated that he intended to give a speech to educate everyone. Asked questions he didn't allow Kerry to answer, stating clearly that he had several questions that he would ask in between accusations that Kerry was a member of Skull and Bones. A stupid question, Kerry was (like Bush a Skull and Bones alumni), and this is public knowledge. He was a disruptive rude jerk. After pushing away the female cop and establishing his dominance of the floor, this guy would have gone on to force everyone to treat himself as chairman (a post rightly accorded to Kerry). It is not just appropriate, but the actual duty of the "Sargent at arms", to physically escort this disruptor from the room. Otherwise, only the loudest and most vigorous microphone clutchers may be heard. Kerry is reduced to being a target for the loudest critic in the room.
Those of you who think me wrong, please state why a man who is allowed to ask one question, doesn't have to follow the rules that the other people, hoping to politely ask a question must follow. How can they ask their question,once a spoiled brat grabs the floor and will not yield ? People came to see Kerry, this guy got to ask any question he wanted, but instead spoke from his ego. If they hadn't dragged him out, do you think he would have shut up and acknowledged anyone else's desire to speak? If this sort of behavior is allowed , forums like this will be impossible.
So I see the police as acting to protect freedom of speech in this case. I saw no indication that he was being assaulted because of his question. Rather, he needed to be dragged out, because there appeared little hope that he would ever shut up otherwise. Total spoiled rich brat kid who has grown up feeling he has the right to lecture anyone anywhere at any time. I love how he is so startled that the police don't realize they have no right to touch him !

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-09-19, 03:30 AM

But none of that is cause for arrest. Just usher him on and tell him to get to the point in the next 30 seconds.

They did, he responded aggressively. When they turned the mike off he screamed at them and ran flailing his arms.

Once they had him on the ground and clearly asking him to stay on the ground he kept trying to get up.

wickedbob

2007-09-19, 03:41 AM

Both are at fault, really. Neither one really did the entire situation in or handled it well for that matter. Both parties could have handled it much better/differently to make for a better outcome. This is not advocating or putting down anything. The man even if not at fault should have not resisted arrest. Not saying that it makes unnecessary force the correct way of handling things, which is certainly what it looked like. Al/ though it is hard to tell much about situations like that from a video.

wickedbob

2007-09-19, 03:42 AM

Maybe the police used a lower than usual voltage. They might have had their TASERs set on "annoy" rather than "stun." No one has reported on this important detail. Why are details like this omitted?

Sigged.

James_Potter

2007-09-19, 04:19 AM

They did, he responded aggressively. When they turned the mike off he screamed at them and ran flailing his arms.
Once they had him on the ground and clearly asking him to stay on the ground he kept trying to get up.
He did not scream or flail till the cops tried to subdue him...the cops were responsible for this riot, not Andrew.

With that said, the newest CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/18/student.tasered/index.html) says that it is true that Andrew did put on kind of a show ("yelling as loud as he could as to sensationalize his presence," according to the police report.") but Kerry was fine with Andrew's question ("Kerry protested, "That's all right, let me answer his question.""). Kerry also said: "I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again, I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention." Whatever that is worth.
But then says that out of sight of the cameras, Andrew was "lighthearted."
So I don't know if it was completely a show or if he just wanted to get his point across and was using drama to do the job.
Only time will tell, I guess.

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-09-19, 04:51 AM

He did not scream or flail till the cops tried to subdue him...the cops were responsible for this riot, not Andrew.

We must have watched different videos then. When the first person says his time is up or whatever he responds quite aggressively.

Some people have anti-cop attitudes to begin with and seem to think that police even being in the room is an act of aggression and justify acting out against them.

Maybe Tasing is a bit much, but when you act aggresive toward, run from, and flail about trying to get away the police do have a right to detain you.

James_Potter

2007-09-19, 04:57 AM

We must have watched different videos then. When the first person says his time is up or whatever he responds quite aggressively.

Some people have anti-cop attitudes to begin with and seem to think that police even being in the room is an act of aggression and justify acting out against them.

Maybe Tasing is a bit much, but when you act aggresive toward, run from, and flail about trying to get away the police do have a right to detain you.
He acted really pissed off and said something like, "THANK YOU, for cutting my mic, thank you," in a sarcastic tone, and the cops started pulling him back then. He was mad, but was not yet a threat whatsoever.

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-09-19, 05:12 AM

He acted really pissed off and said something like, "THANK YOU, for cutting my mic, thank you," in a sarcastic tone, and the cops started pulling him back then. He was mad, but was not yet a threat whatsoever.

I was referring to the first time he approached to step down. He says, "I'll ask my question, thank you very much" and his tone IS quite aggressive.

On top of that if the CNN article that you posted is accurate the Q&A portion was over and he just went up to the mike and started talking. The last time I checked the freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to interrupt.

BluntRM

2007-09-19, 05:49 AM

wickedbob

2007-09-19, 05:59 AM

A story from a few years ago, Floridian police used a taser to disable a 12 year old girl and a first-grader in unrelated instances: http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/14/children.tasers/

Is Florida a model of fascism? Blazing tasers and lost voting records, machine Disney and machine Bush, heavily, violently anti-Cuban...

Both of those sound reasonable. If a young girl was running through traffic lights and got hit my a car people would still blame the officer for not detaining her for safety issues. If she was skipping school to hang out and smoke/drink something tells me she is not the type to listen to anybody. In this situation it was probably the best option. As for the little kid, if he was upset enough to threaten to cut his leg it might have been the only choice. If he was that upset would he really cave in for candy? Once again if the kid did actually cut his leg the officers would be blamed and the parents complain even more. What is better a kid with a piece of glass in his leg or a slightly disoriented/ possibly mildly hurt child.

Gilby

2007-09-19, 02:48 PM

I was referring to the first time he approached to step down. He says, "I'll ask my question, thank you very much" and his tone IS quite aggressive.
Kerry was on the stage talking, and then directed Meyer to ask a question. In the middle of Meyer talking, he was interupted by the police, and he said that. When his mic was cut off, he said sarcastically, "thank you for cutting my mic, thank you". He was dragged away from the mic by the police, and then Kerry said. "That's alright, let me answer his question." Meyer said while being dragged away and not resisting, "whoa, whoa, are you arresting me, I didn't do anything wrong." The crowd cheered.

feel the light

2007-09-19, 03:52 PM

Racenut

2007-09-19, 04:29 PM

The student in the middle of it all, 21-year-old Andrew Meyer, had no comment after he was released on his recognizance on various charges following a night in jail.

But details from his online writings and videos raised the question of whether his harangue during the forum was genuine or some kind of stunt.

Meyer, a senior telecommunications major from the Fort Lauderdale suburb of Weston, has a Web site featuring several homemade videos. In one, he stands in a street with a sign that says "Harry Dies" after the latest Harry Potter book was released. In another, he acts like a drunk in a bar while trying to pick up a man dressed in drag.

The site also has what is called a "disorganized diatribe" attributed to Meyer that criticizes the Iraq war, the news media for not covering the conflict enough and the American public for paying too much attention to celebrity news.

Another site had pictures of Meyer licking a woman's face and making a suggestive pose as he stood behind a fake cow. The site listed his activities as "getting wasted" and "being ridiculous."

"As (Meyer) was escorted down stairs (at the University Auditorium) with no cameras in sight, he remained quiet, but once the cameras made their way down stairs he started screaming and yelling again," Officer Nicole Mallo wrote in the 12-page incident report.

She was one of two officers who actually rode with Meyer to the Alachua County jail, and she said said he told them during the ride: "I am not mad at you guys, you didn't do anything wrong, you were just trying to do your job."

Mallo also reported that Meyer asked if cameras would be present at the jail.

The Sun newspaper also reported that of the many videos circulating, one was shot with Meyer's own camera.

Meyer asked Clarissa Jessup to tape his exchange with Kerry. One officer said the woman was "there to film him" and that Meyer asked, "Are you taping this? Do you have this? You ready?" before beginning his question.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297287,00.html

Yep, sounds like a drama project to me. :)

James_Potter

2007-09-19, 04:55 PM

Kerry was on the stage talking, and then directed Meyer to ask a question. In the middle of Meyer talking, he was interupted by the police, and he said that. When his mic was cut off, he said sarcastically, "thank you for cutting my mic, thank you". He was dragged away from the mic by the police, and then Kerry said. "That's alright, let me answer his question." Meyer said while being dragged away and not resisting, "whoa, whoa, are you arresting me, I didn't do anything wrong." The crowd cheered.
Some people here are talking about how Andrew went over his time limit and thereby hindered the Freedom of Speech of others, but like you said, the crowd was cheering and Kerry had no problem with what Andrew did, so if they didn't complain why should we?

leo

2007-09-19, 05:07 PM

Aha, so it all was just a planned and scripted stunt?
That's amazing, voluntairy taser'ed. Or was that that just acting?
I think that was a very good portion of uninterupted rambling without a telepromter. If bush would have only half that talent at his speeches...!

The guy could have give Kerry space to answer his questions. But if Kerry even can't control this situation, then for what reason he's candidate?

yelling as loud as he could as to sensationalize his presence
I would name that "yelling to expose injustice".

Meyer has his own Web site and it contains several "comedy" videos that he appears in. In one, he stands in a street with a sign that says "Harry Dies" after the latest Harry Potter book was released. In another, he acts like a drunk while trying to pick up a woman in a bar.
Nice pay-off for a quality article with depth.
But what if he was a former B-actor in westerns and potential alzheimer patient?

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-09-19, 05:08 PM

Kerry was on the stage talking, and then directed Meyer to ask a question. In the middle of Meyer talking, he was interupted by the police, and he said that. When his mic was cut off, he said sarcastically, "thank you for cutting my mic, thank you". He was dragged away from the mic by the police, and then Kerry said. "That's alright, let me answer his question." Meyer said while being dragged away and not resisting, "whoa, whoa, are you arresting me, I didn't do anything wrong." The crowd cheered.

Meyer was clearly resisting the whole time. How is trying to runaway and flailing about not resisting arrest? How is trying to stand up when being told "Calm down" "stay on the ground" not resisting?

thejdw

2007-09-19, 05:41 PM

i wish somebody could have punched the cops ion the face. that was my reaction as i saw the video. Im angry now, stupid grrrrr:mad: idk what to say besides that is so dumb.
I totaly agreee

BluntRM

2007-09-19, 06:10 PM

Actually, I am one of the poorest spanish speakers on my block. Not only is South Florida not anti Cuban, it is Cuban. And violently anti Castro !:)

So was Tony Montana...
http://www.bobbyfugly.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/scarface.jpg

But what if he was a former B-actor in westerns and potential alzheimer patient?

Zing.:D

wickedbob

2007-09-19, 06:59 PM

Some people here are talking about how Andrew went over his time limit and thereby hindered the Freedom of Speech of others, but like you said, the crowd was cheering and Kerry had no problem with what Andrew did, so if they didn't complain why should we?

I have seen that idea cause many problems. I mean an extreme example would be a man was murdered and nobody complained so why should we? I just don't agree with that type of thought process. If people do not care what somebody did even if it was wrong that doesn't mean you shouldn't or other people. I am not of course talking about this incident, I am speaking in general terms.

James_Potter

2007-09-19, 07:59 PM

I have seen that idea cause many problems. I mean an extreme example would be a man was murdered and nobody complained so why should we? I just don't agree with that type of thought process. If people do not care what somebody did even if it was wrong that doesn't mean you shouldn't or other people. I am not of course talking about this incident, I am speaking in general terms.
I would not compare wanting a question to a question that much of the population has, to murder. There is a difference between "right and wrong" and "legal and illegal." I still don't believe what Andrew did was illegal or wrong, but some people clearly believe it was illegal, while most if not all of the room believed it was not wrong.

James_Potter

2007-09-19, 08:02 PM

Gilby

2007-09-19, 08:32 PM

Meyer was clearly resisting the whole time. How is trying to runaway and flailing about not resisting arrest? How is trying to stand up when being told "Calm down" "stay on the ground" not resisting?
He started resisting after the police refused to tell him why he was being arrested. After Kerry said he would answer his question. Kerry's response clearly demonstrated that he was the administer of the forum and that he was moderating the questions.

If someone was dragging you off, whether they were in uniform or not, and clearly were doing so wrongly, would you resist? Police do not deserve instant respect as authority, like everyone else, they need to earn their respect. They clearly showed they didn't deserve respect here.

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-09-19, 09:19 PM

He started resisting after the police refused to tell him why he was being arrested. After Kerry said he would answer his question.

They never refused to answer. The police do have to tell you what you are being charged with, but only after the situation is calmed.

But the answer is obvious he was being detained for non-compliance with police instructions.

A cop who pulls you over for speeding doesn't have to tell you he pulled you over for speeding before he asks you to keep your hands on the wheel where he can see them.

qhxakg

2007-09-19, 09:52 PM

It was because he mentioned the skulll and bones secret society.

Gilby

2007-09-19, 10:17 PM

But the answer is obvious he was being detained for non-compliance with police instructions. What lawful instructions?

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-09-19, 10:36 PM

What lawful instructions?

I don't know what the given instruction was, but as I've already mentioned several times. Someone in Uniform came over tapped him on the shoulder and told him something that you can't hear. He responds "I'll ask my question, thank you very much" with an aggressive tone of voice.

It can be assumed that he was asked to sit down or something along those lines.

It's not in the video but most of the articles and whatnot mention that he was speaking out of turn, that either the Question portion was over or that he had jumped the queue, something along those lines.

His behavior was unruly, he was asked to step down from the mike and didn't. He escalated the situation by trying to run away and flailing about. He was asked to calm down and stay on the ground, he kept trying to get up, he was tased. When asked by police to stay on the ground. You can ask what you're being charged with without having to run away or flail about.

James_Potter

2007-09-19, 10:47 PM

I don't know what the given instruction was, but as I've already mentioned several times. Someone in Uniform came over tapped him on the shoulder and told him something that you can't hear. He responds "I'll ask my question, thank you very much" with an aggressive tone of voice.
In the video of him after he's been taken out of the room, the police officer says that he was arrested for "inciting a riot" which he clearly did not do. To me that sounded like an excuse of the police officers part, perhaps because she couldn't think of the real "legal" justification for what they did.

It can be assumed that he was asked to sit down or something along those lines.
Is that something worthy of being manhandled?

It's not in the video but most of the articles and whatnot mention that he was speaking out of turn, that either the Question portion was over or that he had jumped the queue, something along those lines.
Once again this is only very rude behavior, not something worth being arrested for. Kerry was not annoyed, the audience itself was not annoyed, no one had a problem with it.

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-09-19, 10:57 PM

Is that something worthy of being manhandled?

Had he sat down he wouldn't have been manhandled or arrested. Likely even after they did step in had he not caused a scene he would have been escorted out of the room and released.

James_Potter

2007-09-19, 11:02 PM

Had he sat down he wouldn't have been manhandled or arrested. Likely even after they did step in had he not caused a scene he would have been escorted out of the room and released.
As far as I could see, there was no need for him to sit down though, and certainly no need for him to be escorted out of the room.

Gilby

2007-09-19, 11:07 PM

Gilby

2007-09-19, 11:11 PM

Had he sat down he wouldn't have been manhandled or arrested. Likely even after they did step in had he not caused a scene he would have been escorted out of the room and released. Why did he need to be escorted out of the room. They should have allowed him to return to his seat or wait there for a response to the question, instead of instantly grabbing him. The police didn't give him a chance to respond peaceably and instead they disturbed the peace.

Give peace a chance.

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-09-19, 11:26 PM

Why did he need to be escorted out of the room. They should have allowed him to return to his seat or wait there for a response to the question, instead of instantly grabbing him.

They did give him a chance. He ignored it. The incident where he was first approached by police was his chance he didn't take it. When the cops walk in to escort him out, they aren't charging him batons out. It looks to me like they are approaching him peacably until he starts to react.

He says "What am I being arrested for?" And the female cop says, "You're not." He doesn't give her a chance to finish though before he bolts off and starts shouting.

He had the power to de-escalate the situation at any point and chose to do the exact opposite.

The more information that comes out about this kid the more it seems like he's the kind of guy who would escalate it on purpose.

feel the light

2007-09-20, 12:28 AM

So I know a bit about what pisses off cops. #1 is demanding that they do not touch you until they have explained why you are being arrested. There is no requirement that the police inform you of the reason for your arrest. None. You have the right to an arraignment within 24 hours, and will be told then.
The taser part was unnecessary, but it only surprises me that they did it in public. Expect to be tasered if you do not put your hands behind your back so that you can be handcuffed. Most cops have been bitten trying to wrestle the reluctant to put their hands back. If a communicating person refuses to do so, the taser is a common way of explaining why they should comply with instructions. Because it is so routine, the cops did it without thinking about being in public.
As a tip based on personal experiance, always be nice when you are being arrested. They may let you go before booking you. The officers have great discretion. If they know the jailor, they may also have a lot of influence on what part of the prison you stay in. When I was 18, I tore a cop a new ear, and ended up spending 4 days in the felony tank in San Diego. There was 90 hard core fighters there and only 60 beds. I consider myself lucky I only fought one guy. The gaurds show up vary rarely. You are truely on your own there. If they don't like you, they will put you in the most dangerous part of the prison. The converse is also true. The last time I went down, I was made a trusty on the 2nd day, and stayed in block 8D, the very nicest block they had. I felt so honored.:D

Jordan

2007-09-20, 01:04 AM

\If the man had said his peace and stepped away from the podium there wouldn't have been a problem in the first place.

I am sure that was his intent, however he was not given the opportunity to ask his questions.

James_Potter

2007-09-20, 01:19 AM

I am sure that was his intent, however he was not given the opportunity to ask his questions.
He was given the opportunity, he was just taking a really long time...but once again, even though that's "against the rules" the cops did not have to interfere.

Jordan

2007-09-20, 02:04 AM

He was given the opportunity, he was just taking a really long time...but once again, even though that's "against the rules" the cops did not have to interfere.

What I am saying is if they did not cut him off then he would have asked his questions and none of this would have happened. unnecessary violence and the video makes me sick just thinking about it.

john_childs

2007-09-20, 03:42 AM

Whether Andrew Meyer was being a drama queen or attention whore for his video antics is irrelevant. What is relevant is how it was handled and how the force and response escalated because of that.

Would it be appropriate to arrest a Cindy Sheehan supporter who might have asked a question in an animated way? Would it be appropriate to arrest a swift boater who held up an oppositional sign?

What is relevant is that police aren't the proper ones to be acting as crowd control intermediaries or ushers at any public forum. The police should be for the last resort. And having armed officers get involved at the start to escort anyone out is also a very bad idea. Armed officers have to be especially careful cause any resisting could end up with the suspect going for their gun. Don't have armed officers respond at the start. Don't have armed or unarmed officers acting as ushers.

The Stop The ACLU blog takes the view that Andrew deserved it: University of Florida Student Tasered at Kerry Forum (http://stoptheaclu.com/archives/2007/09/17/university-of-florida-student-tasered-at-kerry-forum/). You can read through that for an alternative view. I'm happy to say that I don't hold that view.

john_childs

2007-09-20, 03:57 AM

Nat Hentoff weighs in

Hentoff on the Tasering of the First Amendment (http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/runninscared/archives/2007/09/hentoff_on_the.php)
By Nat Hentoff

The very widely viewed video of the arrest and Tasering of University of Florida student Andrew Meyer for continuing to ask Senator John Kerry about impeaching the president, and whether Kerry and Bush were members of Yale’s secret society, Skull and Bones, was a classic assault on the First Amendment.

Under First Amendment law, you can loudly question, disagree with, or heckle a speaker—unless you make it impossible for the speaker to continue. That’s called “the heckler’s veto,” and is not protected by the First Amendment.

...(continued)

ThisGuyIKnow

2007-09-20, 05:22 AM

Would it be appropriate to arrest a Cindy Sheehan supporter who might have asked a question in an animated way?

If she refused to leave when asked to of course she should be arrested. She knows better though than to flail and resist.

This has nothing to do with political affliations or views

GILD

2007-09-21, 02:29 PM

What I am saying is if they did not cut him off then he would have asked his questions and none of this would have happened. unnecessary violence and the video makes me sick just thinking about it.
At meetings of that nature you must have order of some sort.
Limiting a questioner's time is one way to make sure you have a fair and wide-ranging question time as possible.
Providing it was well publicized and clear to all at the meeting, the questioner was out of line for continuing past his alloted time.
That is about as irritating as Award winners who believe that they are special enough to expect the producer to fade away the 'smile and leave' music so they can continue to mutter inanities into a microphone they constantly lean into.
Idiots, the mic isn't that low cause it's the Pygmy Music Awards. The production team will make very sure that you're audible, that's their job.
Do yours, which includes making your speech within the alloted time, smile, and leave.

But I digress.

uni57

2007-09-21, 02:47 PM

But I digress.Ah, but digression is the spice of life. It's the surprise in the box of Cracker Jacks. The fortune in the fortune cookie. I threw out my TV five years ago, but I do remember them leaning into the mike. Interesting. Idiots. They should know better (and were probably told what to do, anyway). This isn't the first time they've seen a microphone.

Edit: But I digress...

GILD

2007-09-21, 02:55 PM

I remember working as an MC on a 'big' stage for the first time and being handed my mic by the most-butch-shorter-than-4ft5-stage-manager in the history of the world.
The on-off switch was covered with a moulded rubber sleeve that was shaped for comfortable grip.
I looked at it and was about to ask how I'm supposed to switch it on when she fixed me with a steely glare and delivered lines I still remember (and use) to this day.
"When you need to speak, you microphone will be on."
Do not tap, scratch or, by god, blow into my microphone.
Break a leg."

SAVAGE

2007-09-25, 11:07 PM

what did those cops not understand about the guy yelling "don't tase me bro"? what was it? the "don't" or "tase" or "me" or "bro"?
i think the cops were totally out of line in this situation

Racenut

2007-09-25, 11:52 PM

what did those cops not understand about the guy yelling "don't tase me bro"? what was it? the "don't" or "tase" or "me" or "bro"?
i think the cops were totally out of line in this situation

You really think that's the way it works?

monkeyman

2007-09-26, 12:25 AM

wickedbob

2007-09-26, 03:09 AM

...are you kidding me? Whether you think he should have been tasered or not, that line of logic is ridiculous.

Hey, it made me laugh so whatever.

johnfoss

2007-09-26, 05:45 PM

This is old news, but weren't those "cops" campus security (or campus police)? Not "real" cops. Not trained (or paid or benefitted) at the level of "real" cops. Yes they acted inappropriately. Not that Andrew Meyer didn't also. Interesting that I don't remember hearing anything from the college itself, or from their police/security arm, such as "yes, we think the guys exceeded their authority" or whatever. Maybe this is campus policy?

James_Potter

2007-09-26, 06:38 PM

maestro8

2007-09-26, 10:02 PM

Another incident of police officers abusing their power:

Woman says she didn't deserve Taser treatment (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/26/tasered.woman/index.html)
And here's the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFH9kmKZX_o).
Did you even read that article?

FTFA: "Kovach acknowledges using the stun gun several more times to try to get her under control. He said once he got her into his cruiser, she kicked out the back window, tried to climb in the front of his car and would not listen to him, the report said."

This woman is drunk beyond reason and acting dangerously belligerent. The officer shoulda "softened her up" a bit with his baton, rather than using his taser, IMHO.

James_Potter

2007-09-26, 10:26 PM

Of course, she was acting violently which justified maybe a single shot with the taser, even though I think he could have gotten her under control without it. Instead he tasered her several times for over thirty seconds, even when she was on the ground and trying to get away from his attack. In the video you can hear the cop saying something like, "you're messin' up my cruiser!!" Which to me implies he cares more about the car than about the human rights of this woman, even if she was plastered and violent.

maestro8

2007-09-26, 11:20 PM

In the video you can hear the cop saying something like, "you're messin' up my cruiser!!" Which to me implies he cares more about the car than about the human rights of this woman, even if she was plastered and violent.
You're makin' assumptions again, dude.

Perhaps the cop was trying to make her conscious of her actions. The lady was out-of-her-mind drunk; people in that state often aren't aware of what they're doing.

I wonder if the lady remembered anything about that night, or if she needed to be reminded by an onlooker. I've never been that drunk but I've known others who, at some point, forget everything that happens.

It's odd that the video puts the label "victim" below the lady as she's being interviewed... the media sure is trying to make a pretty picture outta that violent, alcoholic "citizen". If she would have driven off in that SUV and killed some people, then she'd have been labelled "suspect" or even "killer".

James_Potter

2007-09-26, 11:39 PM

Possibly. Still though, in the video starting at about 30 seconds, she was out of the car on the ground trying to get away from the cop, and he continued shooting and kicking her...there is no justification for that. She was no threat whatsoever to anyone, so why would he possibly do that to her?

monkeyman

2007-09-26, 11:51 PM

She was no threat whatsoever to anyone, so why would he possibly do that to her?

Possibly. Still though, in the video starting at about 30 seconds, she was out of the car on the ground trying to get away from the cop, and he continued shooting and kicking her...there is no justification for that.
.

James_Potter

2007-09-27, 01:30 AM

.
If someone was torturing you by constantly sending 50,000 volts of electricity surging through your body, even after rendered helpless, would you cooperate by sitting still? I would run like hell man...or try to.

feel the light

2007-09-27, 01:38 AM

He is assaulting a handcuffed woman who is threatening no one. Her intoxication makes it even worse, as she is likely to fall down and hit her head. If she is guilty of DWI she should face her punishment in court, not the street at the hands of a sadistic moron.
My bet is that cop is out a job, and deservedly so.

john_childs

2007-09-27, 03:17 AM

Her intoxication makes it even worse, as she is likely to fall down and hit her head.
She did. The final round of taseing cased her to fall down, hit her head, and be knocked unconscious. A CBS News story (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/25/national/main3294648.shtml?source=mostpop_story) mentions that bit. A concussion from being knocked out could be what is causing her vision problems.

Unbelieveable. How did cops handle that kind of situation before tasers?

A friend offered to drive her home. She got in the wrong car. A cop comes and says get out of the car. She says no (she thought she was in the right car legitimately). Then the cop instantly goes for the taser. Nice escalation of force there. A polite "ma'am, you're in the wrong car" just might have gotten the response the officer wanted.

At least the cop wasn't creating a chilling effect for free speech and public discussion. That would be double plus bad rather than just single plus bad.

johnfoss

2007-09-27, 07:20 AM

The lady was out-of-her-mind drunk; people in that state often aren't aware of what they're doing.That much seems obvious. Potentially very dangerous when someone is in that state, walking around and still able to attempt to drive, for instance, when they're likely to remember none of it later.

If she would have driven off in that SUV and killed some people, then she'd have been labelled "suspect" or even "killer".True, though it wasn't even her car, and she didn't have keys for it. However if it had been her car...

But the cop seems to have gone well "over and above." Sometimes I think they just need to use a modicum of duct tape.

john_childs

2007-10-25, 02:00 AM

Campus police goons cleared in use of Taser on student (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21454383/)

GAINESVILLE, Fla. - University of Florida police were justified in using a Taser against a student who refused to stop questioning Sen. John Kerry on campus last month, according to a state investigation released Wednesday.

Some had questioned the use of force in using the stun gun against Andrew Meyer, leading to the investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. A summary of the agency’s report was released Wednesday.

“In short, the FDLE determined that our officers acted well within state guidelines,” university President Bernie Machen said in a letter to students, faculty and staff members.

If that is justified reaction then the populace should be afraid but will only be apathetic instead. Brilliant campus policing there bro. Please sir, can we have some more?